[sizzlingbadger]

Just noticed this on stuff, seems the madness never ends :(

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3962044a10.html

[Tia Maria]

Phew you had me worried there!

It won't affect me, so I'll only be drinking baby milk on the way back!

What's so special about March 31st, has everyone promised to behave until then?

Cheers

Tia

[Diny]

Just noticed this on stuff, seems the madness never ends :(

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3962044a10.html

I can see your point - and agree to a certain extent.

However, I find it more sad than mad.

Sadness that we have to take these security measure.

Madness if we don't.

Diny

[Marco]

Hi,
I don't think it is either sad or mad.
It is just a FAKE safety that they try to 'organise' for us naive people. I was so happy that it seemed only the US was acting this way, but then Europe followed and now even NZ !!!!

I wished there were some sensible people on this globe able to turn this stupidity around. But this is 'vain hope' unfortunately.

Still glad that I live in this part of the world though, where it still seems to be a bit more relaxed on this issue, but I am not really at ease after reading this article.

All the best to all of us people living on this globe and trying just to LIVE !!

Cheers,
Anita

[StevieD]

Only 6 months behind the rest of the world. As you say Diny, sad as well as mad. Can't help feeling there is a hidden big brother agenda to all of this... conspiracy theory anyone?

[urban78]

What's so special about March 31st, has everyone promised to behave until then?

Cheers

Tia

Not sure about anything else but I know that from that date, there will be the same restrictions travelling to Australia as if people were going to the USA eg. no liquids/gels/aerosols except in clear plastic bags :roll

Most people I speak to travelling to Aus are unaware of those rules.

Jen

[Diny]

Only 6 months behind the rest of the world.

Exactly.

I can't understand why somebody has said ..... now 'even' NZ.

[KD17]

Had it have been April 1st no-one would have believed them :laugh

All part of this big/small world I guess...



Keith & Debby

[Avalon]

Exactly.

I can't understand why somebody has said ..... now 'even' NZ.

Well, probably because NZ doesnt usually buy into the "Lets scare the population into behaving how we want them to" mentality that Bush and Blair espouse.

Its FUD. Ands its reason is to control the population and keep us scared of "others" so that we dont shout when all our freedoms are taken away. And lets face it - many people are only to happy to give up thier freedom because there are "bad people" out there.

Stick me in the "mad" camp - 'cause im not one of them!

[Nathan]

In my "humble" opinion, Flysmart is a good name for this program You've got to be about as smart as a fly to surrender to the 'fear game'. Never give up your freedom for 'security'! You'll have neither.

[NooDleS]

I think its just as much to do with health and safety measures than simply 'terrorism' as your implying. Security is a broad word.

Aerosols have always been a big no no when it comes to flight. Obviously due to their high compression nature. Just think, if the cabin were to have a pressurization failure, aerosols could explode, potentially killing everyone on board. Plus have you ever been on a plane when someone sprays perfume/deodorant? It's horrible, it's the same air recirculating for hours.

Plus to simply stick your head in the sand and pretend problems don't exist is simply daft.

[Diny]

many people are only to happy to give up thier freedom because there are "bad people" out there.

Stick me in the "mad" camp - 'cause im not one of them!

Totally agree, however, rules are rules and no matter how silly we think the situation is we have to abide by them. Refuse to - and you won't be getting on the plane.

Like my tag line suggests, maybe this is a case of 'excepting the things we can't change'. Annoying yes - but it's a take it or leave it situation.

No matter how staunch we are in our own beliefs (and I agree with yours), on this particular occasion we either dance to their tune or don't go on holiday/home/business trip etc.

Diny

[Marco]

Ands its reason is to control the population and keep us scared of "others" so that we dont shout when all our freedoms are taken away. And lets face it - many people are only to happy to give up thier freedom because there are "bad people" out there.

Can't more agree with you!!!!
I am always dreaming that one day we all open up our eyes to what is really happening around us.

In The Netherlands - one of the most liberal and free countries in the world - we have lost a lot of our freedom because of 2 brutal murders, where I even see some conspiracy (but I guess I am the only one). It's just a reason to keep the population quiet and they all obey.

And yes, living has a level of danger in it!! You can't be 100% safe whatever you do - let's all go on with living!!!!

Cheers,
Anita

[Avalon]

No matter how staunch we are in our own beliefs (and I agree with yours), on this particular occasion we either dance to their tune or don't go on holiday/home/business trip etc.

Diny

Yes - we do have to do as we are told - but we DONT have to buy into the reasoning behind it.

And we can make choices. I WILL NOT fly to the states. Until they stop treating everyone as a criminal - they cant have my business. Ive left the UK because Blairs war on terror makes me sick. My hubby nearly punched a guy at Manc Airport when we left last year after our holiday for asking if we wanted to give Iris Scans - "To help keep the country safe".

There are lots of ways we can refuse to buy into this crap. Most importantly is simply to keep on knowing that its rubbish - and that its there for no other reason than to control us.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

How true that is these days.

[Moorf]

Av

Have u got any sources for this sort of security debate - I found the posts interesting reading and, being one of those who is happy to give up personal info for "security" reasons (on the premise that I don't intend doing anything wrong etc and maybe as as a result of having lived on military camps/environment for a lot of my life) I'm interested to read the other side.....

Moorf

[Trigirl]

This is an interesting report on the “liquids on flights” thing – from back when the issue first came to the fore. Now I don’t necessarily agree with The Register’s style of reporting but it certainly gives another take on the issue.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs/

[barryp]

My applied chemistry is a bit rusty, and I haven't blown stuff up in quite some time. But just considering the energy required to cause serious damage through combustion or sublimation, a little common sense suggests that a few litres of fluid are insufficient to cause any particular problem, certainly not enough to risk the plane. (Technically that would not be true if a fission reaction were to transpire, but AFAIK smuggling a fissile device into an airplane cabin would be fairly easy to detect.)

These sorts of gestures are not about safety, but about the perception of safety. (The two do not correlate - for example, death by being an auto passenger is orders of magnitude more likely than death by being an airplane pax, yet fear of flying is common and fear of being in a small, metallic death machine that sticks to the ground is rare.) By imposing more and more of these so-called safety measures, most pax feel good that the state is 'doing something'.

There are benefits arising from draconian carry-on screening, though, primarily by restricting carry-on bulk. Makes loading and unloading faster for the carrier, though it makes service time longer for an individual pax.

These changes will begin with flights to the USA but are intended to apply to every flight leaving NZ, as soon as practical. So there is an opportunity to raise a ruckus and not simply accept the stupidity that has spread across the USA here.

[Avalon]

Av

Have u got any sources for this sort of security debate - I found the posts interesting reading and, being one of those who is happy to give up personal info for "security" reasons (on the premise that I don't intend doing anything wrong etc and maybe as as a result of having lived on military camps/environment for a lot of my life) I'm interested to read the other side.....

Moorf

Well - I wrote a really long reply - and it disappeared into the black hole where socks go:wah

Basically - im not sure I really have much to send you. Alan probably has it all - so ill get him to compile a list of links. He comes across a lot with his job - hes done some work on these "security" measures.

Most of what I feel on the subject is from seeing whats going on in the world. Ive seen and heard which laws are changing (often they get no more than a 2sec mention in the news - I guess hoping we are all too stupid to notice). Things like the Patriot Act in the US (Jo and Jeff have posted links about that). In the UK last year - a law was passed making it illegal to protest outside the houses of Parliament:mad: I mean - we have gone to war to bring "democracy" to Iraq - so that Iraqis can protest without getting thier ears lopped off. Now while dear old Tone wont lop your ear off - you try and say hes a tosser within a mile of his presence - he will throw you in jail! Also - seeing posters in the UK and Autralia warning people to be suspicous - and report things. Never good.

A lot of the changes since 911 are there to apparently keep you and me safe. But they just dont. How does it being illegal to say "Tony is a tosser" within 1 mile of Parliament making Londoners any safer ?????? All these laws have done is made everyone a suspect. Its not making the world safer - its making more hate filled than ever. And that means that far from being safer - you are at more risk.

I do understand the desire to think that it doesnt affect us. Im not a terrorist - never have been - never will be. So why should any government have a right to spy on me? These laws dont just mean they can watch Terrorists - it means they can watch anyone they choose to CALL a terrorist. They do not have to prove you are a terrorist before they do it. 5 years ago- they had to have a better reason than that you are a muslim - or attended an anti-war rally. Now they dont. Does that make you safe?

With all these "anti terrorism" measure in place - detaining people without trial, torturing prisoners, spying on the publics email or phone calls, stopping you taking a bottle of water on a plane, bombing Iraq into the stone age; are you safe? Have any of these measures actually stopped Terrorism? Anecdotely - they actually seem to making us less safe - because now everyone is either scared or angry.

I wonder how hard Bin Laden is laughing at us. I bet he could not have forseen how readily we would turn our way of life upside down because of what he did. The only way we can ever win is not to let them win. And by giving up our freedom and becomuing slaves to fear - we have let them win. We have said that they are stronger than us and that they CAN get us to change our way of life. Our only responce has been to be scared - give in - give up control - and bomb Iraq and its people. Oh, and torture the few people we have managed to capture who may (or may not) have had something to do with hijacking planes and flying them into buildings.

I guess in a nutshell - it turns out that I really do beleive that the only thing we really shoudl fear is fear itself. That and governments who grab too much control over our daily lives. Living in fear - and beleiving that there is something we should be scared of is not a good way to live. When we are constantly told to be suspicious of "others" - we are heading down a very dangerous path.

Anyway - sorry for the stream of consiousness there :uhoh Ill get a list of stuff together that may be useful or interesting.

Hugs

Hxxx

[Avalon]

These sorts of gestures are not about safety, but about the perception of safety. (The two do not correlate - for example, death by being an auto passenger is orders of magnitude more likely than death by being an airplane pax, yet fear of flying is common and fear of being in a small, metallic death machine that sticks to the ground is rare.) By imposing more and more of these so-called safety measures, most pax feel good that the state is 'doing something'.
.

Of course thats a much quicker way of saying it:laugh

[Carol]

And we can make choices. I WILL NOT fly to the states. Until they stop treating everyone as a criminal - they cant have my business.



My sentiments exactly.


Stuff them.

[StevieD]

wonder how hard Bin Laden is laughing at us. I bet he could not have forseen how readily we would turn our way of life upside down because of what he did.

Is this the same Bin Laden family who was cozying up with the Bush's, evenin the immediate aftermath of the 911 "attack" and the family was allowed to escape US??!!

The way this world is being run is very frightening. But, it is a world of fear, fomented by US/UK - a new world order or just the same old Anglo-Saxon "control" machine? David Icke was lambasted many years ago for being a loony and was pilloried by the press. But if you read his stuff, written all those years ago, it is so clear, and true, of what has happened over the last few years. (David Icke.com if anyone interested). His book, Alice in Wonderland and the Twin Towers is very perceptive and worth a read.
As I said at the time, why would arab terrorists, choose the Jewish New Year, to bomb the twin towers?? Very strange.

I totally agree with Avalon, and stuff the US of A (sorry you American guys but it is just ridiculous, treating everyone as criminals, taking fingerprints, what in the world gives them the right to do that, to build a database of everyone passing through the US?) I will not bow to this pressure and have deliberately chosen my path away, even though the luggage allowance is less.

Regarding the "security" issue of liquids on planes, Manchester airport is now starting to charge you 25 pence per bag (which can be bought 10 for £1, and that is from a retailer!) and you are only allowed to take the maximum of 100ml of liquids. However, you can take as much liquid as you want on to the plane after you have cleared the security checkpoint! I know, it is a secure area, but smacks of exploitation a little bit :confused:

Ah well, 22 days to departure (GULP), maybe I won't be such a cynic when I get out of the madhouse. Answers on a postcard please.

[NooDleS]

As I said at the time, why would arab terrorists, choose the Jewish New Year, to bomb the twin towers?? Very strange.

Correction, the terrorists were NOT Arab, they were Muslim. There IS a difference. Yes the Jews managed to get Muslims to do their evil Zionist bidding :roll :roll The bush administration is the axis of all evil :roll It was the evil Jews that tried unsuccessfully to blow the WTC up in 1993 as well :roll

With regards to the potential of bringing down a plane or killing a large number of passengers. I was referring to aerosols exploding in your hand luggage whilst in a window seat etc...now if numerous people had them on board and the cabin pressure compressors failed at 30,000 feet. That's an instant jump of 22,000 feet of pressure. Lots of explosions....potential to break windows!

I totally disagree with the whole Iris and fingerprinting at airports. I have a round the world ticket for my trip to NZ this year and have to pass through LA airport on my return. I have to be fingerprinted just to change planes!

The whole National ID debacle is depressing. Especially the examples given for their necessity. After the cockle pickers disaster, Labour touted that situations like that wouldn't have happened if a national ID card system was in place. Now excuse me if I'm wrong but how the heck does that work. These people are here illegally, they'd got into the country illegally with the intention to work for people knowing that they were here illegally. They bypassed the system to start with!

Same with the National Number Plate Recognition that is going live in April. Giving the government two years of data on where and when every last one of us has traveled.

My vote goes to UKIP.

Congestion for example, they have had 10 years in power to act on it and their only response is to charge people a fourth time for use of the roads. With road pricing soon to be a fifth tax on the roads.

Nevertheless the situations are real, it's the shoddy Labourite reactive responses that are the problem. Labour, 10 years, 8 wars. Welfare state.

I have to cut this post short, I've got to go back to work.

[StevieD]

Some good thoughts there - Labour like a Stalinist power -- ooer.

I mean, you can't even protest outside the commons, even if you are using a camcorder, the police come and ask you why! "Ermm, I'm on holiday filming my family album..."

NNPR stinks - it is just a huge data gathering exercise. Just like the satellite road charging proposals. What next?

[NooDleS]

What next?

A Green Tax on Toilet Paper!

[Avalon]

:laugh

[Avalon]

Ah well, 22 days to departure (GULP), maybe I won't be such a cynic when I get out of the madhouse. Answers on a postcard please.

Seriously - I dont think you will be. The fear, uncertainty and doubt FUD) just does not seem so pervasive here - one the absolutely wonderful things about NZ if you ask me!

Unless you watch Sky News UK (runs at intervals during the day) - you really wont see much of the hysteria :) Its actually nice to watch it occasionally - just to see how much better life is here (ignoring the sausages of course).

[StevieD]

Well, I don't get many sausages here with Jan and the kids being veggies :laugh
Although I expect the Waikato sausage industry is going to benefit in a couple of weeks time - I just know that Kim39 will let me sample all the local delights!! LOL

[katandbob]

Well, I don't get many sausages here with Jan and the kids being veggies :laugh
Although I expect the Waikato sausage industry is going to benefit in a couple of weeks time - I just know that Kim39 will let me sample all the local delights!! LOL

Sausages - Has Kim found a decent one????????????

COME ON!!! Don't keep it to yourselves!!!!

OH and anyone know of a decent bacon! so far Hellers streaky is the closest to UK bacon! and its so Da£n expensive!


OH and before I forget - SOON BE TIME TO FLY:exit Steve!:nice1

Kst

[Questor]

London Pride sausages from Pak n Save - :D