[K&CS]

Sorry, I'm sure a lot of people will be sighing 'not another education thread', but this is more from a primary level than the other recent thread which was more about secondary education and the lack of respect kids had.

I would just be really interested to hear what people think about the way their kids are being taught maths at primary level. I mentioned once before that when we arrived a year ago, my 8 year old, who was fairly average at maths in the UK, had been put into a year 7 maths group here, which was 3 years above her age group! With every other aspect of their education, I am very happy (their reading and writing has come on tremedously). However, they are barely being taught maths at all. They have been back for a week and have done no maths at all yet! Maths lessons are taught in the afternoon when the kids are tired and as they have daily swimming lessons for the next 5 weeks, which will clash with maths, they will be doing barely no maths until the end of March.

What I need to know is if it's just this particular school, or do other people have any issues about how much maths they're getting.

Thanks

Kate

[marcia]

Hmmmmmmmm had a similar conversation today with another forumite about Maths!!!

My middle son Mika said yesterday when I asked him if he liked the school he said yes but the work is too easy!! Ayrton did a maths test last week - 80 questions in 5 minutes and get them all right! Now they are bright kids, but they are certainly not genius level, so is it just that the levels the kids are at here are a lot lower than in the uk.

I am leaving it for a month to see exactly what the boys get taught and what levels they are working at then if I'm not happy I will go in and speak to the teachers.

Ayrton was in year 6 in the uk and would have been doing his SATs this summer - then had been doing some practice papers whcih I brought with us so at least I can show the teachers what type of work they were doing in the uk!

I don't want the boys to get bored in school thats when trouble starts, they need to be challenged and pushed, otherwise as most people would do they will sit back and do the minimum expected with the least effort!!

Watch this space I'll let you know in a month how things are going for us up here!

Kate if I were in your situation, I'd wait a bit longer maybe a week, then go in and see what the teachers say - you have been here longer and your kids have had time to settle - mine are in a totally new environment so I'll give them a bit longer before I go shooting my mouth off!!

[SharpBlade]

Hi Kate,
same concern here, no mention of maths when we had the parents/teachers meeting the other night..My kids barely do any maths, when you come to thing of it. I appreciate reading and writing are important skills, but I would expect our 8 years old to be introduced to times tabels quicker and so on. Well, maybe I am still comparing to what they did in Ireland before we came (2005). But since then, he hasn`t improved much in maths.
I don`t like it when the teacher seems to spend too much time (in my opinion) with computer skills and how to download homework and all that fancy stuff. I `d rather have a basic class environment but get the basics rigth too .
Maybe Carol could help us on this one?
Good luck
(and yeah, outdoor swimming is back in Thorrington too..)
Laura

[SharpBlade]

oh.. spelling mistake., should read "when you come to think of it".. and here I was , talking about getting the basics right..:roll
Laura

[Diny]

This thread has been started at a very opportune time. Marcia and I were chatting about this very subject this morning.

I can't talk for every other school in NZ but to be honest Kate I have the same opinion as you. The amount of maths my boys are being taught is minimal - to say the least - and yes, while they're now in 'swimming term' they too are spending 'heaps' of time in the pool and less and less in the classroom.

This is the exact 'gripe' that I've been ranting on (and on) about for the last 18 months. It's the actual level/amount of academic (and yes, mainly maths) work that the boys are doing.

The school they go to is VERY good as far as school 'life' goes .... but for the zillionth time I'll say that the quality/quantity of academic work is 'worrying'.

We have started to send our boys for private tuition and already you can see the difference in them. The tutor (an ex-head master) echos our concerns regarding the level of maths being taught in NZ primary schools.

We brought some UK curriculum maths work books back from the UK with us at Christmas, we showed the tutor these books and his jaw dropped. His exact words were 'this is just a completely different league'.

I can feel another long rant coming on so I guess I'll just say 'yes', the amount/level of maths (plus other subjects) that my boys are being taught at primary level here in NZ is of a huge concern to us.

Diny

[Rizak]

Not to be nasty about this, but am I going to get upset because the cashiers can't do simple arithmetic in their heads? It makes me mental already and I'm still in a country where math is apparently of more importance.

[nippa&pippa]

This confirm my fear about our children's educations as i have spoken to my son's kindy teachers about writing and reading as he will be 4 in july...Oh no, no need yet till 5..eh???
Well i will do teaching of writing and reading then....

[Carol]

Maybe Carol could help us on this one?
Laura

http://www.tki.org.nz/r/assessment/exemplars/maths/index_e.php

These are "Exemplars" -
What is expected of children at the various "Levels" as described in the NZ curriculum.

While it is expected there is a broad band of children working at a similar level at a similar age - of course there are exceptions.
Children should be working (and challengfed) at their ability level - not their "age" level.

As a general guide, a teacher would expect Level 1 to be completed by approx Yr 2, Level 2 to be completed by Yr 4/5, Level 3 to be completed by Yr 6/7 and a Year 7 or 8 student to be working within Level 4.

BUT - they are very general guidelines. As I say - within a class - there will be a number of different "levels" of operating - and the children should be grouped and taught as appropriate.


This is the Literacy and Numeracy strategy - for all schools.
I think you'll agree the "basics" are in place.
http://www.tki.org.nz/r/literacy_numeracy/

Swimming takes up a huge amount of curriculum time here - something I to have questioned in the past.
The response is always the same.
There are so many opportunities here for water sports - and saving your own life is paramount.
Teachers can only work around the pools' timetables - hence some schools will need to go in the mornings - unfortunately - because that is "prime" learning time.

[Sam B]

I am happy to see that the pre-school education is play based and that formal learning does not begin until after 5 years - all current research shows that young children learn far more through play. Countries which do not do any literacy work until 6 years (e.g. Scandinavian countries) have some of the best adult literacy levels. Better to concentrate on listening, attention and speaking before 6 I think.

My children love their new school and Poppy (aged 10) reports that children are more focussed during the formal learning times - I have been wondering if this is because they are given so much opportunity for physical play as well.

Both Sorrel (6) and Poppy (10) both appear to be doing the same amount of maths as before - today, Poppy did statistics, and Sorrel did counting in 5s.

[sizzlingbadger]

In the first year of eldest's schooling his maths failed miserably, however in Term 4 there was a lot of emphasis on numeracy as it formed part of the main topics and he turned it around. He's now average to above average and really enjoying it now he's got the concept of it.

I've taken it on myself also to teach my rising 5 year old to write, the alphabet, basic addition and counting to 20. She is very lucky also that the kindy has extended sessions two days a week and they teach her to write and the alphabet but no maths.

[marcia]

I've taken it on myself also to teach my rising 5 year old to write, the alphabet, basic addition and counting to 20. She is very lucky also that the kindy has extended sessions two days a week and they teach her to write and the alphabet but no maths.


Sorry a bit off the maths topic - but something that I'm investigating at the moment - how do they teach the alphabet here in NZ? I was asking today at the playcentre we went to, and they didn't really seem to know - told me i would be best to ask the teacher in the entry level class at school!!! Well Emerson may only be 3 but already he can spot an 'E' for Emerson, but he is saying it phonetically, which is the way our older two were taught - I don't want to start off on the wrong foot and put him at a disadvantage by teaching him phonetics if that isn't the way they do it here! I will be going into it with the teacher in school at some point but thought it a good time to ask the question here!

How do they teach the alphabet - phonetically or A B C?

[Carol]

How do they teach the alphabet - phonetically or A B C?


Marcia - :yes Definitely by letter names - A B C rather than phonetically.

[nippa&pippa]

My son taught both phonetically and A B C.....blame on daddy! :uhoh but he somehow understood the different between it. Went to bookshop and brought education books for his ages...very good. However, in the bookshops i did see few books and CDs on teaching phonetically alphabet...hope that help you.

[marcia]

Thanks Carol - think that makes it harder for the kids personally when it comes to reading but - if thats how they do it here - I'd better stick to that - so out of the window go my jolly phonics books then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SharpBlade]

Hi Carol,
thanks for your reply.
I am happy with the litteracy program but I am surprised by the very limited amount of time dedicated to maths. I know there are plenty of ways to learn about maths, it doesn`t have to be boring time tables or learning off by heart divisions and fractions and so on, but to me, the more you see/hear that 8X8 = 64, the easier it gets to remember it.Or is it something that we don`t expect anymore from children these days, to know stuff off by heart?

On the whole, I am rather happy with our school, it is a great place and kids seem to "blossom" there.

I guess that there isn`t enough hours in a day for all the stuff we would like to do, there is so much to learn, from swimming to drawing, thinking, poetry, music etc.. and at the end, we will always have to make compromises. I just hope the kids won`t come off worst later in life.

Sorry for all the forumites who don`t relate to this thread, we do tend to ramble a bit when it comes to education !

He Diny, good to hear that things are moving in a good direction for your kids.

Laura.

[Carol]

The Numeracy Project that is running here in NZ is just amazing.
It totally blows me away what Chloe can do in her head at 7.

Ask their teachers what "stage" your kids are at in the project - and what you can do at home to help them achieve the next level.


VERY constructive = particularly practical maths - where they are applying their knowledge to real life scenarios.

And yes - basic facts (instant recall of times tables, as well as addition subtraction AND division facts) are a very important part of the Numeracy Project.
:yes

[Carol]

On the whole, I am rather happy with our school, it is a great place and kids seem to "blossom" there.

Laura.


THE ultimate goal.
:nice1

[willowshouse]

I think it is difficult to compare schooling here with that in the UK although you obviously do! There is not the sense of urgency/importance here and I too have wondered whether there should be a little more formal reading and writing .. because that is what we are used to. Had we lived here all of our lives I'm sure it wouldn't concern us at all.

There is one thing I feel fairly confident about though - for kids who are maybe not so academic .. they benefit more from being educated in NZ than in UK. I am trying not to worry too much about my 7 year old, thinking that maybe the academic side will 'kick in' eventually .. but I am keeping a close eye on my 11 year old in her new high school.

On balance, I'm pretty happy with schooling here .. but watching it and making notes!

[sizzlingbadger]

Hi Marcia, I'm teaching normal alphabet, never got on with the phonetic alphabet with my eldest. It seems to confuse them more. As Carol said no phonetic way of saying things at school either.

One problem I have is that my two eldest kids are a bit too 'british', in that they prounce everything slightly different to kiwi kids. My eldest finds it hard learning words that are said differently, like 'yis' to take an easy example. Now I find him prouncing more and more words as the kiwis would say them and him taking on their accent which is a good thing in a way.

The youngest one well I need my middle one to translate he's kiwi through and through :laugh

hope this makes sense, had a glass or two of wine after a very stressful day :exit

[Carol]

ha!
I used to have terrible problems at the start of each year doing spelling tests with my class - with a geordie accent.

By the end of the year - they had all got used to me though.

My boys were 7 and 4 when we cam - they are now 18 and 15 - and STILL have a certain amount of geordie in their accent.
Chloe on the other hand - has none at all.
:laugh

[wilson182]

Hi Carol,
thanks for your reply.
I am happy with the litteracy program but I am surprised by the very limited amount of time dedicated to maths. I know there are plenty of ways to learn about maths, it doesn`t have to be boring time tables or learning off by heart divisions and fractions and so on, but to me, the more you see/hear that 8X8 = 64, the easier it gets to remember it.Or is it something that we don`t expect anymore from children these days, to know stuff off by heart?

Laura.

I do agree with this, and as well as encouraging reading, its something that we work on at home. I remember asking my step daughters teacher in the UK once what we could do to help and she said exactly that. Reciting times tables, make it a game or whatever... but it had to be 1x2=2, 2x2=4 etc and not 2,4,6,8 etc.. I have been to open days at my daughters school to learn about the way that they teach maths and changes in the Numercy Project and I was encouraged by how enthusiastic they were.

[Andy-Dee]

Just as there are threads on 'best restaurants' etc, a thread on recommended schools would be really helpful, especially one that was area based.
As an example, people could rate them from 1 to 10 on a number of catagories. maths, english, science, personal development, discipline, sports, the arts, environment - just some suggestions.
Then new formum parents can make a judgement based on their own values with regard to their childrens education.
Its such an important issue for all parents I'm sure it would be well recieved - not least by me!
D

[Junnifer USA]

We moved here with a year 5 son (age 9/10). Upon arrival they placed him with the advnced group of year 8. It was still behind where he had been in math in the US.

First, I got a tutor, to help him retain his skills and interest in math.

Then, it became apparent that we were going to have an even bigger problem the next year, as the year 8s went off too high school. My son was much to young to be in high school.

We were then forced to find a private school. He ended up at Cathedral Grammar in Christchurch. It is an excellent primary school that feeds into Christ College.

My son elected to attend St. Andrew's. He has just started year 9. Absolutely loves it.

This has been a lot more expensive than we expected for education in NZ. Just wanted to share the route we followed. We cam from the US where edcation standards have dropped, so we did not anticipate this problem. There are a number of other American families with kids at St. Andrews...and I often hear the same complaint. On the other hand, there are a large number of British, German, French students at our neighborhood primary school...and they have been very happy there.

[Diny]

He Diny, good to hear that things are moving in a good direction for your kids.

Laura.

Thanks Laura - I have to say it's great news as far as we are concerned. Just abit galling that we have to actually pay for a standard we find acceptable but such is life.

Diny

[andrewandjane]

hi,

i read this thread with interest, I cant wait to send my kids to school where they can actually enjoy the experience and be kids for a bit longer, Ive taught in the UK and have had 11 yr old kids crying in the first term because theyve done sats and not scored well and are aware that this willbe with them for the next 5 yrs.

id love for my kids to go swimming every day, theres plenty of time for learning when they get older, particularly maths etc. Im 32 a qualified science teacher, never learnt my tables at school and still cant do times tables, i use a calculator so its not really a problem for me and know if my kids are anything like me they will pick up the maths later and priobably enjoy it wheres i was forced to try and learn it and have hated it and shunned it ever since (hence the reason i cant do times tables)

i agree with the fact that teaching should be on kids ability to learn and when they are ready they will pick it up really easy. too much pressure isd put on kids in the uk so that casues a dissadvantage and dissafection to subjects hence why most kids hate maths and even science..cant wait to send my kids to school where theres a bit less pressure. But like you all i will no doubt be be watching carefully once we get out there

[Tanya]

We too have a problem with the maths. My son - (Year 6) really isn't that good with it - not that I ever was and has bumbled his way through for the last 2 years in NZ.

We have just been given some info on the Numeracy project they teach here and I was directed to a website http://www.nzmaths.co.nz/ click on the families piece of the puzzle at the top. It gives strategies and also activities to do at home. The other links also seem good if you need to help them along especially the problem solving .

Hope it helps someone

Tanya

[K&CS]

Thanks Tanya. I was also talking to friend last night who used to teach Maths in the UK. She's going to give me some late Key Stage 1 papers she has from the UK for dd2 to work through and she'll have a look at them afterwards - that should be good practice for her and will also give me an idea of what her standard of maths actually is.

Since yesterday, I've been asking around and everyone seems to have the same complaint. We have our 'meet the teacher' evening next week, so hopefully the subject can be broached there!

Kate

[Tanya]

Kate

We are going back to the UK for a quick trip in a couple of months and I had decided I would get some of the maths exercise books you can buy over there to give both of my kids a helping hand. Sounds like they had better be first on my shopping list, with Bisto Gravy a very close second!LOL
Tanya

[Diny]

As I've mentioned before, we brought some of these books back from the UK and showed them to the boys tutor (an NZ ex-head teacher) and when he looked at them his jaw dropped and he said ......"this is just a totally different league".

My kids never felt over pressured in the UK - but they do feel over bored here. As a parent - this is a concern - who wants to see their kids grinding to a halt?

[nippa&pippa]

Diny, Just in case anyone thinking of getting private tutor, how did you find your private tutor? (i know i won't need for long time!)

[K&CS]

Diny, if you don't mind me asking, how much are you paying for your tutor? A friend of mine is sending her son to Kip McGrath, but they have to pay up front for 2 terms and it's about $650, which is a lot of money!!

I'm going to see what transpires for the rest of this term, I think, and then take it from there. By the time next term starts, swimming will be finished till November, and maybe there won't be so many distractions.

[Diny]

Kate - will PM you.

Diny

[Diny]

Sophia - will PM you too.

Diny

[Carol]

Can I just ask - have any of you been in to the school to talk to the teacher/syndicate leader/principal about your concerns?

This was something that I used to get really frustrated about - not knowing that there was a perceived problem - when it could have been easily explained or actioned in another way.

Also - do you have recent assessment results to go off?
What was in their reports?
What were the recommended "next steps"

Is it the teaching or the assessment results you aren't happy with?
Have you sat in on a Maths lesson to see how they work?


I often (actually very often) would come across kids who had peaks of knowledge but also huge gaping gaps that needed revisiting and re-learning.


One more thing....
A private "education" resource will ALWAYS find something to teach your kids.
They are after all - trying to make money.

Just a thought.....

[SharpBlade]

Very good points Carol. I haven`t talked to Simon`s teacher much so far , I am going to wait for a week or two and then see if anything is changing or not. I think this week, he was assessing each child`s math (and reading) abilities and hopefully, proper work is going to start next week depending on each child`s level. Ok, this is fine by me. I just don`t understand how you can learn anything if it is not repeated/ tried/ done everyday and that`s where I am a bit concerned (plenty of extra activities, so how much time is left for the traditional teaching/learning subjects?).
However, I am really happy at the general confidence and "happy go attitude" of our kids, surely a bit of "kiwiness" has been passed on to them.
Thanks, Laura

[Carol]

The school will require a minimum amount of time per week to be spent on specifics such as literacy and numeracy Laura.

Ask - and ye shall be told....

But remember - not all weeks will be the same. But it should even out over the course of a term.

Coverage of curriculum IS something that is looked at by ERO.
Also - if teaching methods are up to date and "Best Practice" as far as teaching is concerned is evident.

If not - your school will have recommendations about that.
Have you checked out your school's last ERO report?

http://www.ero.govt.nz/ero/publishing.nsf/Content/Home+Page

So let's hope there aren't TOO many "traditional" methods of teaching going on!
;)

[K&CS]

Carol, we've got our 'meet the teacher' next week and I'll bring it up there. The problem I have is that my youngest daughter has had no maths whatsoever in the week and a half she's been back with no mention of when they'll start or when they'll be assessed etc. It is also scheduled to clash with swimming this term, so I can see that hardly any maths will be taught at all this term.

I don't have a problem with the work being easier than in the UK - I knew that would be the case before I arrived, and in many ways, I'm really pleased with their schooling. The kids love going to school and have learned lots of new and different things in the last year. BUT I really am concerned that maths simply isn't being taught. I realise it's early days yet, but I'm not happy about the situation.

[marcia]

I have taken to quizzing the boys every tea time now about what they have done each day - we have a meet the teachers evening next week I will be reading the boys exercise books and having a good look at the work they have been doing and will express my concerns then!

[Carol]

Carol, we've got our 'meet the teacher' next week and I'll bring it up there.

That's good - but be aware that these first "meetings" are often brief and "general". THey are often held just to get to know each other - for parents to see how systems work, and to set goals for kids following on from testing. For that reason - I used to prefer that the kids were present at the meeting.

If you need to discuss something more specific - I would make a seperate time to see the teacher - preferably without your child there.
:nice1

[Carol]

I havent actually read every bit of this - but what I have read makes really interesting reading.

http://www.educationcounts.edcentre.govt.nz/publications/curriculum/bes-eff-pedagogy.html

[Tanya]

Carol

In our school if you ask for a meeting with a teacher they will always come in pairs making you feel very outnumbered. Is this the normal way for a meeting with the teacher or just our school?:confused:

Just wondering. I didn't know but have been given the heads up on this practice from other parents.:(

Tanya

[Carol]

I will be reading the boys exercise books and having a good look at the work they have been doing and will express my concerns then!


Marcia - dont forget to ask what practical hands on Maths they have been doing.
Really important!

[Carol]

Carol

In our school if you ask for a meeting with a teacher they will always come in pairs making you feel very outnumbered. Is this the normal way for a meeting with the teacher or just our school?:confused:

Just wondering. I didn't know but have been given the heads up on this practice from other parents.:(

Tanya


Never ever heard of that before Tanya....

Maybe they have had a bad experience with a parent in the past.
Easy solution - go with as many "supporters" as you can muster.;)


ANd dont be scared by them - they are only human!
:laugh

[Cardiff Irons]

First of all, let me preface this post by saying that we moved to the area we are now in NZ principally because of the quality of schools in zone, so what I am about to say obviously won't resonate with everyone's experience here.

We currently have children at Primary, Intermediate and College (senior) schools and thus far we've been bowled over by three things:

1. The quality of the physical infrastructure of the schools (the equipment, sports grounds etc).
2. The emphasis on teaching how to learn.
3. The importance of developing self-confidence and an ability to communicate and relate with others.

Last night I went to a "meet the teacher" at Pigeon Mountain (which is the primary school). For the first 45 minutes we listened to a presentation from someone who is helping them to guide the curriculum at the school and I have to admit it was a mindblowing experience.

For the first few minutes we were read an extract from a book by an Australian (Justin Beare I think), who in the year 2000 assessed what the educational needs of a 5 year old would be in order to meet the demands of a rapidly changing world through his/her lifetime. Essentially it said that teaching as many of us understood it when we were young is not going to cut it in a global, fast paced and increasingly technological world.

Whilst for us collecting information and facts and then spitting them back in a test was OK, the kids of today will need to develop more diverse skills and attitudes such as:

Presentation and communication sills
Problem solving and enquiring minds
Self confidence
Interpersonal skills

We all have our hobby horses about education and I understand that. For my part, I played the academic game superbly well. I learned the facts and strategies that were presented to me and reproduced them with stunning accuracy. In fact, so successful was I at the academic game that it was not until age 32 that I began a journey of self development to fill the enormous gaps that education had failed to fill. I was a technically excellent Chartered Surveyor (hey, you can see the qualifications on my business card if you like), yet I was unable to communicate effectively, was self-conscious, struggled to form new relationships and suffered from stress as a result of it all.

You're telling me it's different here in New Zealand! That it's more about developing the person than learning by rote or storing information that most of us will never, ever use. Well that's fine and dandy by me. :nice1

[Carol]

:raebanana


As an aside......

I have an absolutely gorgeous 17 year old son.

(I know - I'm biased - but it CAN be verified by Smiler - who is also biased!)


So..

It's Friday night.
And where is my gorgeous 17 year old son?

Sat in the lounge doing calculus homework. :exit

So he can spend tomorrow roller blading around Oriental Parade with his mates, doing a soccer referreeing course on Sunday - followed by playing for the local golf club's Pennance team in the afternoon.

We are eating stir fried fillet steak with a mountain of veggies in Teriyaki Sauce.
I am drinking a Monteith's Radler Beer - I have offered him one - and he said "no thanks mum".

He was never a typical "academic" student. In fact he was a struggler.
But we encouraged him in as many ways as we could.

Now tell me - if we had still been living in the North East of England he would be doing these things on a Friday night.
I think not somehow.


We SO did the right thing coming here.

[willsken]

You're telling me it's different here in New Zealand! That it's more about developing the person than learning by rote or storing information that most of us will never, ever use. Well that's fine and dandy by me. :nice1

:nice1

[K&CS]

I understand what you're saying and I agree in many ways - quality of life is fabulous and kids are loving school. I have a worry at the moment about Maths, but I'm sure that one way or another (I'm in a Blondie mood), we'll solve it. I'm a pretty laid back parent really (I also hated maths at school), but I do feel that they need SOME maths at school! I'm not even commenting on the quality of the maths education; just the complete lack of it!! OH is also concerned...

Nicola, how's the job going??

Kate

[marcia]

:raebanana


As an aside......

I have an absolutely gorgeous 17 year old son.

(I know - I'm biased - but it CAN be verified by Smiler - who is also biased!)


So..

It's Friday night.
And where is my gorgeous 17 year old son?

Sat in the lounge doing calculus homework. :exit

So he can spend tomorrow roller blading around Oriental Parade with his mates, doing a soccer referreeing course on Sunday - followed by playing for the local golf club's Pennance team in the afternoon.

We are eating stir fried fillet steak with a mountain of veggies in Teriyaki Sauce.
I am drinking a Monteith's Radler Beer - I have offered him one - and he said "no thanks mum".

He was never a typical "academic" student. In fact he was a struggler.
But we encouraged him in as many ways as we could.

Now tell me - if we had still been living in the North East of England he would be doing these things on a Friday night.
I think not somehow.


We SO did the right thing coming here.

Begger that 'rep' pop up!

Great post Carol!

|Have to also add that my eldest tried to boot me off the computer when he arrived home from school so he could do his homework!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! back in the Uk i wouldn't have known he had any till I turfed out his school bag!

[alan999]

It's only a thought but kids seem to start school later in NZ than in the UK, not normally seen as a bad thing. Could this not explain why younger children up to 11 or 12 seem to be a bit behind. Do they catch up later?

Alan

[vixxann]

Carol - what a fantastic post - I totally get it, actually it even bought a lump to my throat and tears in my eyes :) Give your son a hug on my behalf please and thank goodness you are a mum who appreciates what she's got :yes :yes

Our 13yr old is in our local high school (back in grey UK) but only as there was no other choice to be honest - couldn't afford to send him private or believe me we would have. He knows more about drugs than me, but thankfully knows how to avoid the issue too. He has seen more violence than ever before in his life. Despite being in the "able and talented" selection of children - he hates school absolutely - has been in tears many nights, he gets put under a LOT of pressure at school and can never seem to get it right. He is a bright lad with lots of natural talent, but he doesn't need the high pressure of the UK education system coming down on him 100% of the time. There is so little recreation time from what I can see, the only extra cirrucular things seem to be based around football (which he doesn't enjoy). My son plays the guitar (and keyboard) like a real pro. Honestly, it's astonishing! he can also draw fantastically well - but the school haven't picked up on any of this yet :mad: We spent a long fretful parents evening there last week but were so proud of him and what he is trying to do despite what he is up against. I just wish I could take him out of it right now. Give me some of that NZ education anyday....... and........
Our 10 year old son is due to go up to high school this September.

Fingers crossed we'll be there by then.

[Diny]

Do they catch up later?

Alan

Oh dear God I hope so. I've had the same concerns for the last 18 months. I guess it all depends on what you, as a parent, feels is a good education.

If you prefer the 'traditional' approach then I think you'll have many concerns about the 'system' here. If you prefer a more laid back, hang around on bean bags and kicking balls around approach then you'll love the 'system' here.

I'm a great believer in establishing good habits right at the start, allowing a school kid to 'kick back' up until the age of 11 or so ... well, that's one hell of a habit to break. This is certainly the case with my kids. They went to a fantastic school in the UK and were always interested, eager and very much involved in all aspects of school life. I only wish that could have continued once we arrived here. Sadly (for my kids) this just hasn't been the case.

Things are looking up now we have got them extra tuition so hopefully this subject won't take up so much of my thought time.

Diny

[vixxann]

You're telling me it's different here in New Zealand! That it's more about developing the person than learning by rote or storing information that most of us will never, ever use. Well that's fine and dandy by me. :nice1

abso-bloomin'-lutely :clap

see what the UK did for me - I cannot even spell! :D

(addition to my long! above post - we also have a 4yr girl who is doing very well at primary here in UK. IFshe slowed down accademically once in NZ education system, I really don't think I'd mind if I saw there was progress overall in her own selfs education - if you get me!)

[alan999]

Hi, I've no experience of the NZ system yet but not much faith in the UK state system either. Given the choice I think I would sooner them have a little less street cred if it meant slightly behind acedemically.

I've always been a bit strict and have noticed the current table just published in UK showing how badly UK treats its kids is virtually a league table of discipline reversed. Our kids have all the gadgets, time, food, tv etc but are they happy? Seems kids with stricter bounderies but fewer toys and freedoms are happier.

Sorry about this, I'll stop. It's a bit of a sore point with me.

[zardell]

Sorry about this, I'll stop. It's a bit of a sore point with me.



But a good point nontheless......IMHO

Julie

xx

[gil]

Following on my husbands' excellent post (IMHO :D), I just want to say that our kids seem to be doing plenty of maths work and fidning it different from UK in that they have to learn basic facts (tables etc as others have expounded upon more knowledgeably than I can) rather than "understanding the concept" of multiplication from infants on (not knocking the many excellent teachers in UK who have to conform to a government-led curriculum that seems to be designed to keep kids in education for an eternity, thus keeping the unemployment figures lower than they would be if the 16 year-olds came onto the job market instead of going back to Sixth Form and if the 18 year-olds came onto the job market instead of going to university). OUr almost 16 year-old is doing IGCSE Maths and finding it similar to GCSE Maths in UK. OK, she doesn't like Maths, but she's not coming home and saying how easy it is compared. Her view is it's explained better here and I asked her why. She said that the classes are quieter and there are less subjects to concentrate on. (Her Maths teacher is English, by the way.)
She is diligent, conscientious and was in the gifted and talented stream at her UK school, so I'm not worried that she's in any way "fallen behind". After all, what's any university going to need for entry to read Arts or Law? 5 GCSEs grade c or above, including Maths.
I think what I'm saying here is that the kiwi kids in her class are doing the same stuff as she was doing in the UK....not lesser stuff.

Secondly, I think there is something important in this idea about kids needing different skills and learning for the future. How many of us would be satisfied if our children were learning copperplate handwriting and Greek? It might be of some esoteric academic value and highly important to a Victorian mind, perhaps less relevant these days. There is an important parallel (I believe) in working life these days. Managers who stick to "how it was in my day" will stagnate and be unable to cope with the demands of working life in 2007 and beyond. "Command and Control" or " Do as I say not as I do" may have worked up until as recently as the seventies, but only the dinosaurs still cling to that now. Working with people in groups, teams, project teams and departments requires strong coaching, mentoring, facilitation, interpersonal, IT and communication skills. The ability to use technology from calculators to internet and stuff that's not even invented yet is going to be of paramount importance.

So how does this relate to primary maths? As far as I can see, the NZ education system has it's finger on the pulse of what will be needed in the future and if my children spend an hour or two a week more on sport at age 9 than they do on Maths, that's fine. Sorry to hijack this thread even further Kate, but I feel very strongly that we need to understand that the world has changed and will change even more. My kids can do things that I can't, not just on the computer, but in maths and applied science, just as I could use technology that bested my parents when I was growing up. They will have to deal with things we never had to and if their education helps them to do this, then all well and good.

I love Carol's suggestion about speaking to the teachers (can't add more rep, Carol, sorry!). It amazes me the number of people who have a gripe or complaint about their child's school, their homework or even the teacher themselves, but never go in and talk about it. Teachers are wonderful and under-valued souls, but they can't help if they don't know. Transparency is a great way to go...
Enough, I hear you cry! Could ramble on, but won't! :D

Gil

[alan999]

Oh dear God I hope so. I've had the same concerns for the last 18 months. I guess it all depends on what you, as a parent, feels is a good education.

If you prefer the 'traditional' approach then I think you'll have many concerns about the 'system' here. If you prefer a more laid back, hang around on bean bags and kicking balls around approach then you'll love the 'system' here.

I'm a great believer in establishing good habits right at the start, allowing a school kid to 'kick back' up until the age of 11 or so ... well, that's one hell of a habit to break. This is certainly the case with my kids. They went to a fantastic school in the UK and were always interested, eager and very much involved in all aspects of school life. I only wish that could have continued once we arrived here. Sadly (for my kids) this just hasn't been the case.

Things are looking up now we have got them extra tuition so hopefully this subject won't take up so much of my thought time.

Diny

I think they will catch up. Kids nowadays in England get fed up with school and coast whereas in NZ perhaps they will keep their enthusiasm going for longer.

But it just isn't what's taught at school but what else is going on. In the UK there is so much peer pressure and "cool to be a fool" culture that it gets in the way of learning. Schools no longer have the respect of the children and no matter how much parents try to isolate their kids from all the distractions they are always going to lose. If not total defeat then at least lose ground. Basically school is a microcosism (!!) of what society will be like and I'm sure that is one of the reasons many of us have for leaving the UK behind.

So I would be happy to give the Kiwi way a try. Easy for me to say because I won't be using it. I have two who will be finishing their degrees at Unis in England before coming out for good in 18 months and two who will come out this summer having completed their As stage of "A" levels to continue here. All have gone through state eductaion in darkest Wigan.

And I am looking at a good address for Macleans or a grammar zone because my youngest wants to be a vet and is a high flyer. But I will be leaving the UK educationnal system back where it belongs.

[SharpBlade]

I didn`t mean "traditional teaching" as in "slap the kid`s finger, repeat after me and so on" (which I have never experienced as a child in Belgium). I know there are many ways to teach but sometimes it seems to me that fancy approaches don`t have immediate results , but yeah, it looks good on paper, makes for great posters in the classroom..These methods take more time to the teacher but certainly bring up discussions in the classroom which is also a good thing (knowing how to express an opinion, talking in front of an audience, etc..)
I repeat, I am very happy with our kids`schooling, but like Kate, I wonder when they will do any maths. It is not even mentioned in their timetable..
Thanks all for the great posts, Vixxan your kid will be happy here, good luck.
Laura

[Carol]

I am very happy with our kids`schooling, but like Kate, I wonder when they will do any maths. It is not even mentioned in their timetable..

Laura

Laura - you really do need to question that.........it is probably just an error though - some poor teacher who was drawing up their timetable in the school holidays probably just forgot and missed it off.
It WILL be in the school day somewhere........ I couldnt place a safer bet.
;)

[gil]

I
I repeat, I am very happy with our kids`schooling, but like Kate, I wonder when they will do any maths. It is not even mentioned in their timetable.
Laura

Laura,

Is there soemthing like "Basic Facts" on the timetable? Cos that's maths.

Gil

[alan999]

or "sums"? :roll

[able]

I was interested to see that in the UNICEF survey the other day - the one in which UK kids came out so badly - one of the best performances for UK kids was in education. Despite this, at the age of 15 they were outscored by New Zealand kids in Maths, English and Science.

[alan999]

I was interested to see that in the UNICEF survey the other day - the one in which UK kids came out so badly - one of the best performances for UK kids was in education. Despite this, at the age of 15 they were outscored by New Zealand kids in Maths, English and Science.

I really hoped this would be the case.

[Diny]

I think they will catch up. Kids nowadays in England get fed up with school and coast whereas in NZ perhaps they will keep their enthusiasm going for longer.

But it just isn't what's taught at school but what else is going on. In the UK there is so much peer pressure and "cool to be a fool" culture that it gets in the way of learning. Schools no longer have the respect of the children and no matter how much parents try to isolate their kids from all the distractions they are always going to lose. If not total defeat then at least lose ground. Basically school is a microcosism (!!) of what society will be like and I'm sure that is one of the reasons many of us have for leaving the UK behind.

So I would be happy to give the Kiwi way a try. Easy for me to say because I won't be using it. I have two who will be finishing their degrees at Unis in England before coming out for good in 18 months and two who will come out this summer having completed their As stage of "A" levels to continue here. All have gone through state eductaion in darkest Wigan.

And I am looking at a good address for Macleans or a grammar zone because my youngest wants to be a vet and is a high flyer. But I will be leaving the UK educationnal system back where it belongs.

I appreciate what you are saying but your comments regarding what UK schools and school kids are like couldn't be further off the mark as far as we are concerned. We can only comment on our own experiences. My kids don't do as well in the NZ system as they did in the UK system. I know I'm in the minority by saying that, but it's a fact - simple as that.

My kids have also lost a huge amount of their innocence, their street wise knowledge has increased 'multi fold' since getting here, they use language now which they'd never heard back in the UK. I know the type of school they went to in the UK was probably more the exception than the rule, but the fact remains that my kids aren't doing as well here as they did back home - both academically and socially.

However, I always read with great interest (and great envy) about how a lot of forumites are delighted with the education their kids are getting over here. Now we're 'topping up' their learning with a private tutor I think I'll start to feel alot happier.

I'm very jealous of those parents who are 100% happy with their kids schooling - I can't tell you how much I wish that was the case for us.

Diny

[alan999]

i deleted the post, nothing to do with NZ!!

[Andy-Dee]

Really interested to note that you have Kip McGrath over there, our 6 year old isn't great at English but loves Maths (takes after other half not me!). We took her to Kip McGrath to enhance her English but what we have found is that she loves the Maths so much she really enjoys going and as a result has improved in all areas.
She particularly loves her computer time - where spellings and times tables flash on the screen and she has to spell back or type in the answer quickly. We were keen to ensure that she stays on track with this as she enjoys it so much better than school.
Does anyone know if Kip McGrath is available in Wellington?
D

[Carol]

Does anyone know if Kip McGrath is available in Wellington?
D
Yes.

Do you need a private tutor?
;)

[Andy-Dee]

Hi Carol
I am just keen to ensure she gets the right learning hook - which I accept is different for every child - we really struggled with the local school despite it being small - an average of 14 children in each class.
Our daughter was just not interested - she didn't like reading the 'Biff and Chip' books and found the Maths easy.
Kip McGrath just seems to motivate her and she LOVES her tutors. I've never seen someone so made up over gaining enough credits to get her chocolate bar. (maybe she's more like me than I thought :laugh )
D

[Carol]

The most magical thing about teaching for me - was finding ways to hook kids in.
I found it really interesting why some kids couldn't get enough of "Biff and Chip" and others weren't interested at all.

I've read so much while I have been "re-learning" how to teach here - about learning styles and how to accommodate them in an average classroom.

Many schools here are tuning into this now - and with the new curriculum - those who havent are going to have to!

My 8 year old daughter has really clicked into Maths - thanks to the teachers she has had and the NZ Numeracy project. Her knowledge, and strategies are simply astonishing to me for her age.

She LOVES ICT - would do everything on the computer if we allowed her to.
We have enrolled her in a "unique" class at our local school which allows all the kids to use their own laptop in the classroom.

Opportunities like that are too good to miss for us.
She absolutely LOVES school.