New Zealand - 15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ

marcia

16th February 2007, 04:39 PM

Ok post a piece like that and you have to expect to cause controvasy (sp).

I'm sorry if things haven't worked out for you here. But these are my thoughts and replies to each of your reasons for returning - please don't take offence just different views on the same situations, I'm sure many others will have differing opinons and we should all be allowed to express them freely!

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ
1. You do not need to spend 25 hours flying and thousands of $ to reach the world.

Gives you a chance to explore this side of the world instead - and I've been to Europe - no big deal!

2. You do not need to collect heaps of documents and to spend lots of money and to wait decades to get residency and/or to renew it.

We didn't it was surprisingly fast and sometimes the best things are worth waiting for!

3. You do not need to be a resident to be entitled to the public health system.

Surely you did your research and were armed with these facts before you came?

4. You will not see the same products in every supermarket.

Yes you will just with different labels - after all beans are beans no matter what colour tin they are put in!

5. You will not spend 2 hours to drive 100 Km.

I don't mind driving here, less traffic nice sceanery and who wants to race around like a lunatic anymore?

6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?

No because they don't speak the language, and they are too busy running in the rat race!
7. You do not have to wait for one day to download 100 MB from the Internet.

Ok got to agree there the broadband is slower but it still works!

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)

???????????????????????

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.

We did in the uk I'm afraid to say!

10. You will not live all the time under the threat of Earthquakes.

No just suicide bombers, I'll take my chances with a natural disaster thank you very much!

11. You do not have to calculate the time difference when you want to call somebody in the world.

If its somebody who loves me they won't care what time it is they will just be pleased to hear from me.

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation.

My son was expected at four years old, to wait a year for an operation, he was in pain frequently - we jumped the system and paid privately for it!
13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.

Yep but it gives everyone a good laugh and after all practice makes perfect!
14. You do not need to be a resident to order a credit card.

Who needs a credit card - it only encourages you to spend what you haven't got in the first place.

15. You do not need to be a resident to get a mortgage.

Yep thats why so many millions are in debt up to their eyeballs and will never be able to pay it back in a million years.

zardell

16th February 2007, 04:46 PM

deleted

Probably for the best!

:nice1

Julie

xx

zardell

16th February 2007, 04:53 PM

Sorry BPK, but I am forced to disagree with you point 12 (amongst others, but I'm going out for dinner on a friends boat (never did that in the UK !) and haven't the time right now to respond)

My hubby went to our local surgery because he was concerned about an fast growing, inflamed lump that was growing on his chest.

The doctor removed it there and then at the surgery and it cost us $30. So, I'm sorry if I don't agree with you, but I just can't.

I'm also sorry that NZ hasn't given you the lifestyle that you crave and I hope that you find your piece of paradise wherever you decide to lay your hat.

Julie

xx

zardell

16th February 2007, 04:55 PM

Oooh by the way Marcia and Carol............I can't give either of you any rep points cos it wont let me.......sorry !!

Julie

xx

stu70

16th February 2007, 05:02 PM

Thanks bpk for your take on things. Forums are for all to express their views. Thank God we live in free world and can express ourselves without the fear of being controversial. Posts like these give other forumites who are still in their own countries some food for thought and an opportunity to stop and take a second look at their plans to move to NZ. It is best to learn from the experiences of others sometimes. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Cheers :nice1

Carol

16th February 2007, 05:03 PM

That's Ok Julie - it's the thought that counts
:laugh

;)

bpk

16th February 2007, 05:03 PM

bpk

16th February 2007, 05:05 PM

marcia

16th February 2007, 05:09 PM

Hey guys,
these are not all, still there are many more reasons. I did not, however, decide to leave yet. Do not rush. I gave you the empty half of the glas, but certainly there is another full-half.
Juts for discussion as each country has advantages and disadvantages.

So don't you think to give a balanced view you should also post the 'full half?'

Maybe i will disagree with the things you see as positives?? :p

bpk

16th February 2007, 05:12 PM

So don't you think to give a balanced view you should also post the 'full half?'

Maybe i will disagree with the things you see as positives?? :p

I think everyone (or 99%) of the people in this forum present always the 'full-half'. So I like to present the other half. Also I have posted many threads talking about positive things.

K&CS

16th February 2007, 05:15 PM

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the impression that bpk isn't too happy here?

Bon voyage back to Europe!

Still, posts like this always make life a bit more interesting!

willsken

16th February 2007, 05:28 PM

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ
1. You do not need to spend 25 hours flying and thousands of $ to reach the world.

Depends on what you call the world. I couldn't wait to leave that world behind me and I don't intend flying back to it any time soon. I'm content to spend a lot less hours flying to explore my new world.

2. You do not need to collect heaps of documents and to spend lots of money and to wait decades to get residency and/or to renew it.

If the UK was more like that I wouldn't have felt so overcrowded and had the need to leave in the first place.

3. You do not need to be a resident to be entitled to the public health system.

And what a crap system it was.

4. You will not see the same products in every supermarket.

I'm learning to cook properly again, from scratch. Boy it’s healthier!

5. You will not spend 2 hours to drive 100 Km.

Oh you do in places. OH did a journey that took 6 hours and by rights it should have been more about 2 1/2 hours.

6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?

No cos they wouldn't be interested. At least people bother with you over here.

7. You do not have to wait for one day to download 100 MB from the Internet.

Haven't noticed much difference as I don't download much

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)

Well that once again not my experience. I've seen people in the UK be on the receiving end of huge amounts of road rage. Horrible.

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.

We did. With all the stealth taxes we paid it was probably a lot more.

10. You will not live all the time under the threat of Earthquakes.

I'll copy Marcia’s response on this one!!

11. You do not have to calculate the time difference when you want to call somebody in the world.

Gave up calculating in week 3. I know when I can and can't ring. If I really need to though they won't mind what time I ring.

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation.

Oh yes you do!!!

13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.

Try living in South Wales!!!!

14. You do not need to be a resident to order a credit card.

Who wants one? They give you so much credit in the UK people are ending up ruining their lives over it.

15. You do not need to be a resident to get a mortgage.

Don't know the facts on this so can't comment

At the end of the day NZ isn't for everyone and we all see things very differently. I have taken to living here really well and for all of us everyday life is much happier and calmer than it was in the UK. All I can say to those coming, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!!! You need to know what you are getting into on as many levels as possible before you come.

Cardiff Irons

16th February 2007, 05:37 PM

You must be a keen fisherman bpk. Lots of bites so far! ;)

Bruckner

16th February 2007, 05:40 PM

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)

I get that every day here. And I'm on foot.

Emily

Diny

16th February 2007, 05:58 PM

You must be a keen fisherman bpk. Lots of bites so far! ;)

Exactly !!!!!! Reel 'em in boy.

I don't think that NZ is the be all and end all, but neither do I really agree with the 15 reasons. My opinions lie somewhere in between.

However, I defend your right to voice your opinions and think you give some useful points.

One thing I learnt a long time ago ....... the glass half empty points are nowhere near as popular or well recieved as the glass half full ones. But that's just human nature I guess.

Diny

Sam B

16th February 2007, 06:21 PM

You are just stirring aren't you bpk? You would never have come to NZ if you are a big fan of motorways and prefer English-only place names?? I suppose I will miss France... but I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of NZ and Australia. I'm with you on the broadband though!

wilson182

16th February 2007, 06:25 PM

Exactly !!!!!! Reel 'em in boy.

One thing I learnt a long time ago ....... the glass half empty points are nowhere near as popular or well recieved as the glass half full ones. But that's just human nature I guess.

Diny

I think thats a little unfair, and a little while ago I didnt post much on here because it was not well received to post good things about NZ. I think we ALL try really hard on this forum to keep things balanced, and to see things from other peoples point of view. Its an open forum and BPK isn't daft, he will well have expected the responses he has, and lets face it - no one has been rude or told him its not OK to feel this way... Its no secret that BPK is having a much harder time than some of us, and I can read his frustration in every line on his list. And, believe it or not, I agree with stu70, it is good for people to see the negatives as well as the positives.

*love ya Diny*

urban78

16th February 2007, 06:42 PM

I agree with most posters, NZ isn't for everyone and it's good to have a balanced view :yes

However I'll mainly disagree on the driving point and immigration. Have you tried driving in France and Italy??? Driving in NZ is a dream compared to those 2 places :laugh

I'm actually glad NZ is strict on residency process...after seeing what's happening in my home country (France), they could take example on NZ and have better border control and immigration laws.

Correct me if I'm wrong I thought you could get a mortgage on a work permit or work to residence and not necesarily on a PR visa? :confused:

Jen

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ
1. You do not need to spend 25 hours flying and thousands of $ to reach the world.

2. You do not need to collect heaps of documents and to spend lots of money and to wait decades to get residency and/or to renew it.

3. You do not need to be a resident to be entitled to the public health system.

4. You will not see the same products in every supermarket.

5. You will not spend 2 hours to drive 100 Km.

6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?

7. You do not have to wait for one day to download 100 MB from the Internet.

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.

10. You will not live all the time under the threat of Earthquakes.

11. You do not have to calculate the time difference when you want to call somebody in the world.

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation.

13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.

14. You do not need to be a resident to order a credit card.

15. You do not need to be a resident to get a mortgage.

Angelonthemove

16th February 2007, 06:59 PM

Yes you can get a 80% mortgage and yes you can get a credit card on a work permit.

I think you guys have said it all on the other points.

dapper

16th February 2007, 08:41 PM

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ
1. You do not need to spend 25 hours flying and thousands of $ to reach the world.>>

2. You do not need to collect heaps of documents and to spend lots of money and to wait decades to get residency and/or to renew it.>>

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! YOU SHOULD NEED IT.......ISN'T THIS ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE EU ANYWAY...IF YOU'RE NOT, YOU SHOULD NEED THE PAPERS ETC - ?????

3. You do not need to be a resident to be entitled to the public health system.>>

ANOTHER PROBLEM - YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN....AGAIN IF YOU ARE FROM THE EU YOU HAVE THE E11 FORMS WHICH ARE GREAT....

4. You will not see the same products in every supermarket.

5. You will not spend 2 hours to drive 100 Km.>>

IN THE UK YOU CAN TRAVEL FOR THAT OR LONGER JUST TRYING TO GET FROM LONDON/BIRMINGHAM - AND AT AN EXPENSE FAR GREATER THAN SAYING TRAVELLING FROM MADRID/LEON

6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?

7. You do not have to wait for one day to download 100 MB from the Internet.

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)>>

OH COME TO THE UK - THEY WILL FINGER YOU/STAB YOU/SHOT YOU AND FOLLOW YOU TILL YOU STOP AT LIGHTS TO YELL ABUSE AT YOU.

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.>>

JUST PAY A QUARTER AND GET NOTHING IN RETURN. BUT THOSE TO DO NOTHING AND DON'T HELP THEMSELVES GET EVERYTHING FREE...SO THEY AREN'T EVEN PAYING ANYTHING - IT'S THE WORKING PEOPLE (AND ESP THE SINGLE PEOPLE) OR ARE LIVING HAND TO MOUTH

10. You will not live all the time under the threat of Earthquakes.>>

UK HAS EARTHQUAKES AND PORTUGAL - THE ALGRAVE HAD ONE JUST LAST WEEEK - NOT TRUE AT ALL

11. You do not have to calculate the time difference when you want to call somebody in the world.>>

WHERE IN THE WORLD DON'T YOU HAVE TO DO THIS?!!!!!! TIME DIFFERENCE WORKS TWO WAYS!

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation.>>

BLIMEY - IN THE UK YOU DO HENCE PEOPLE ARE GOING ABORAD....SOME PLACES YOU ARE LUCKY IF YOU CAN GET A BED....OTHER PLACES WHATEVER YOU GO IN FOR MIGHT BE TRICKY FOR THE STAFF AND YOU MAY EVEN CATCH SOMETHING WHILE YOU'RE IN THERE!

13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.>>

NO..JUST TO NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MOVED TO THE UK

14. You do not need to be a resident to order a credit card.>>

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD - ANOTHER PROBLEM

15. You do not need to be a resident to get a mortgage.>>

SAY NO MORE - ANOTHER PROBLEM THAT SHOULD BE FIXED.

I find your post off and well wrong!:wah

Hannah

16th February 2007, 10:26 PM

I can't say i agree with bpk's posts on things like the roads and place names, because that's all subjective - what i like or dislike will differ from many on this forum (and what an interesting world we live in as a result). However, I can appreciate the frustration that is behind bpk's posting. We came over, like bpk, without the benefit of PR - hoping to get a job, hoping to get the points needed to apply for PR, hoping to get the ITA through in a reasonable time, hoping to get PR. Until we got PR we didn't really feel we belonged, it was like our presence here was in the lap of the gods (aka immigration) and it really was pretty stressful. I suspect that bpk's frustration stems from some of that seemingly endless bureaucracy and inability to settle as a result. As someone whose been there I can relate to that side of bpk's post.
I love NZ, it's now my home (although I love the UK too) but part of loving NZ is BECAUSE it's my home, i know i can stay here, I CAN fall in love with it because I'm not hanging on for a decision about whether I can stay.
Give him a break guys - i think he needs it!
Hannah

Debbie P.

16th February 2007, 10:37 PM

OMG, this is all so depressing! Reading posts like this are putting me off from coming to NZ! (just kidding :D )

Only ones I can comment on are:

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe)

Have you TRIED driving in Europe? Or are you being tongue-in-cheek with your comments? When I drove in Canada last summer, I couldn't get over how non-aggressive the driving was - made me realise what I usually have to put up with!

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation

Well, as my father died of a heart attack while waiting SIX MONTHS for the tests that would have proved to his incompetent doctors that he didn't have an ulcer (despite the fact that he had been on steroids for years and was, presumably, high risk for heart problems), I think I'll take my chances with ANY system but the UK NHS.

willsken

16th February 2007, 10:56 PM

I think we all struggle in some ways to settle. I think bpk put the list up and it was inevitable that people would respond to it. I have made no secret over time that I don't love the UK and detest what I witnessed it becoming. My own take on things.

I don't doubt he finds all these things frustrating but it is a matter of personal opinion in the end. When you put a post of this nature on an open forum you know you will receive opinions that agree and disagree with what you say. I think people respond because they remember how it feels before they arrived to read negative things being said and how deeply you feel at reading the information.

I for one haven't been disappointed with my move. OK things aren't perfect but is anything? NZ in my eyes offers my family and myself a far far better life than we had in the UK.

I feel that for me, when I read the negatives I have to offer another view, just because a few months ago I sat reading the negative posts and found myself wondering if it was the right move for us.

It is very important for people such as bpk to be able to express their feeling. That is, after all, what being a member of a forum such as this is all about. I respect how he feels but I just don't agree with a lot of his points and I for one will always be truthful on here as to those feelings in the hope someone may benefit. It doesn't matter what those opinions are, just that they are truthful and balanced.

I think we can only tell it how it is for us, all individuals, with different hopes and dreams. NZ will fulfil those for some and not others. We just need to remember the people reading these threads who have no first hand knowledge as yet. They need to see both the negatives and the positives. :)

Diny

16th February 2007, 10:57 PM

I think thats a little unfair, and a little while ago I didnt post much on here because it was not well received to post good things about NZ. I think we ALL try really hard on this forum to keep things balanced, and to see things from other peoples point of view. Its an open forum and BPK isn't daft, he will well have expected the responses he has, and lets face it - no one has been rude or told him its not OK to feel this way... Its no secret that BPK is having a much harder time than some of us, and I can read his frustration in every line on his list. And, believe it or not, I agree with stu70, it is good for people to see the negatives as well as the positives.

*love ya Diny*

I wasn't actually talking about the forum, I was refering to life in general.
Certainly wasn't trying to be unfair.

Diny

Questor

17th February 2007, 01:17 AM

One person's frustrations are another's benefits - no-one can say that something that annoys someone elsewill be an issue for them until you experience it. Before we arrived, we heard about some negatives of NZ, and it made me think "that sounds weird" but after experiencing it, it's a way of life here, and at the end of the day, you're coming here to live the NZ life, not trying to make it another UK, or wherever else you come from!

If you don't like it, begger off back :D
.
We love it here, and nothing could make us go back to the UK. Those who know us will know we had our issues, but as far as we were concerned, it's all part of the process, if it was easy, then where would be the fun?? ;) We knew that we wanted to live in New Zealand, and if that meant jumping through a few hoops then that's fine. I'd much rather be wanted here, than get a visa for no apparent reason!

Carry on.....

Jon

Caroline and Dave

17th February 2007, 01:23 AM

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ
1. You do not need to spend 25 hours flying and thousands of $ to reach the world.This is a good thing,helps to cut down ilegal immigration

2. You do not need to collect heaps of documents and to spend lots of money and to wait decades to get residency and/or to renew it.In the UK it seems to be if you can hold a broom ,your in. You certainly do not want a situation like the UK

3. You do not need to be a resident to be entitled to the public health system.In the UK the NHS is collapsing as it cannot cope with the demand,anywhere else in the world apart from EU you have to be insured.

4. You will not see the same products in every supermarket.Under all the different packaging the food is basically the same

5. You will not spend 2 hours to drive 100 Km.The M25 is the biggest traffic jam in Europe.Anywhere inside greater london you can expect at frequent times 1 mile to take 30 mins at least

6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?No one speaks to you at all Where we live.In our area there are more migrants than locals

7. You do not have to wait for one day to download 100 MB from the Internet.

8. The people will not finger you despite their careless driving (although they drive very carefully in Europe) Road rage is rampant here

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.No, more like 60%

10. You will not live all the time under the threat of Earthquakes.It is not safe to go out at night where we live,add to that the terroism threat and I'l prefer earthquakes any day

11. You do not have to calculate the time difference when you want to call somebody in the world.The only country to have the same time as UK is Portugal or Madeira

12. You do not have to wait for many years to undergo a surgical operation.A lady we know waited 6 years for a hip operation

13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.I don't see that as a problem

14. You do not need to be a resident to order a credit card.My cousin who lives in Canada has always kept a bank account open in UK and correspondence is sent to her mum but they would not let her have a credit card as she was not resident in UK

15. You do not need to be a resident to get a mortgage.

I fully understand that you have your bad feelings with NZ but I am concerned that you feel that these problems do not exist in Europe.They do. Wherever you go in the world there will be problems and I respect you for your comments. It takes me back to the old saying " The grass is always greener on the other side" In truth it hardly ever is.

Kindest regards

Dave and Caroline

smitjo

17th February 2007, 01:39 AM

I'm not sure if I read this correctly or not....but I saw the original post as a light-hearted joke??? Last one left turn out the lights and all that? I think we tend to take things a little too seriously, people are entitled to take the mickey out of where they live (even if they genuinly feel like that?). Sorry if I got this wrong but I really did think it was a bit of a joke and it certainly wouldn't have any impact on whether I move to NZ or not!

stu70

17th February 2007, 04:03 AM

wobbler

17th February 2007, 05:28 AM

I do n't post very often but do check the forum every day, from my perspective (as someone who is contemplating moving) find the forum a bit negative on the UK. Most of the negative comments seem to have brought into the media's view of what is happening in the UK. I think reality is different.

I do find the comments about people who have found, for what ever reason, that life is not for them in NZ the most usefull posts to someone like me. I would guess this post should n't be taken too seriously but does create some debate.

Debbie P.

17th February 2007, 05:30 AM

If we all went with only the "good" and had sarcasm(the lowest form of wit??)for those who did not join the "club", how would humans be different than sheep? It takes courage to post your personal feelings , popular or not. I would rather walk into a "known" danger than live in a fool's paradise.

For some of us, immigrating to NZ is not about moving from a fearful and life threatening situation(I am talking about North American perspective not South African here) to a safe heaven; we already live in a country where most of the world would die to move into. Soemtimes when you have too much of a good life, your mind starts dreaming of (mis)adventures in far off lands. folks like bpk allow you the opportunity to revisit this topic with a realistic vision. If at the end of the day you still feel like going to NZ then so be it. If not then the credit goes to bpks of the world in affording you the opportunity to reanalyze. Cheers :nice1

I agree. bpk's comments (humourous or not) are not going to be everyone's experiences - they're based on bpk's frustrations, due to having had a rough time of it. Nothing wrong with that, this forum has always encouraged people to share their feelings. I (personally) am taking them with a pinch of salt. Not saying it's NOT the experience of some people in NZ, but many others won't experience any/many of the problems highlighted (e.g. not everyone is going to have to wait 'years' for an operation). Well, that's my optimistic hope, anyway.

And if that gives the impression that I'm going into it with rose-tinted specs, so be it. My problem, not anyone else's! :nice1

Leachie

17th February 2007, 05:41 AM

I'm pretty sure you're not entitled to free health care in other European countries? I'm a UK Resident and in Spain I still have to pay for healthcare?

Isn't that why a lot of UK expats have problems on the mainland because they're not entitled?

I might of misread that though and you may of been talking about healthcare in general...

Oregonkiwi

17th February 2007, 07:17 AM

I'm just glad we have a forum Cranky European Guy back to liven things up - I was a bit sad after Lukas stopped visiting. You all remember Lukas, right? He was this guy:
The nature is NZ (otherwise not virgin or untouched) no doubt is fabulous… but there are some minuses. You may see gorgeous bitches and great see water…but you can only watch…the water is very cold even on the mid summer and laying down on the bitch more that 10-15 minutes can harm you as far as the NZ sun is very dangerous.

But seriously, I think a lot of bpk's frustrations stem from this:
I never applied for PR directly because I presumed that the system in NZ is the same as any country in the world so I applied for work visa instead. If I would have know the system before like this, I would have applied for PR directly and I would certainly have got it.

As many other people have said, research is vital.
__________________

StevieD

17th February 2007, 07:24 AM

And I don't think he is having any more of a time of it than the rest of us, whichever way we have applied, we all have to go through the same routines.

mic'n'sj

17th February 2007, 08:26 AM

Have they lived in the UK at all?

wilson182

17th February 2007, 08:54 AM

I wasn't actually talking about the forum, I was refering to life in general.
Certainly wasn't trying to be unfair.

Diny

My mistake then Diny, sorry :o

Diny

17th February 2007, 09:04 AM

zardell

17th February 2007, 09:05 AM

I'm just glad we have a forum Cranky European Guy back to liven things up - I was a bit sad after Lukas stopped visiting. You all remember Lukas, right?
__________________

Oooh yes - I remember Lukas and his 'laying on the bitches' very well indeed. :laugh

Was he European born and bred though?? I thought he was an Asian immigrant living somewhere in Europe and thought that if you lived in the UK you could get a 5* holiday to Spain for 50 quid?? Maybe I've got wrong, not that it matters.........:confused: ............. not difficult for me.

Julie

xx

gil

17th February 2007, 11:16 AM

15 reasons why Europe is better than NZ

13. You will not face difficulties spelling the names of towns and geographical features.

Have you ever been to Wales? :laugh

Gil

willsken

17th February 2007, 11:39 AM

Oooh yes - I remember Lukas and his 'laying on the bitches' very well indeed. :laugh

Was he European born and bred though?? I thought he was an Asian immigrant living somewhere in Europe and thought that if you lived in the UK you could get a 5* holiday to Spain for 50 quid?? Maybe I've got wrong, not that it matters.........:confused: ............. not difficult for me.

Julie

xx

The 5* hols in Spain... I remember. :roll

Moorf

17th February 2007, 12:07 PM

I'm all for this discussion.... but what I don't understand is this - if NZ is THAT bad compared to Europe, why aren't they already making plans to head home? Sure, diss NZ and "big up" the U.K, that's all fine and worthy of debate, but if I had those feelings about NZ I'd be on the first plane back to Europe.....

Andy-Dee

17th February 2007, 12:27 PM

I'm with you Moorf !!!!
D

wilson182

17th February 2007, 12:27 PM

:clap :clap :clap

bpk

17th February 2007, 01:35 PM

Yes you can get a 80% mortgage and yes you can get a credit card on a work permit.

I think you guys have said it all on the other points.

Definetily not with my my bank. I was there yesterday and they told me I have to be a resident.
I do not know if the policy is different in other banks

willsken

17th February 2007, 01:39 PM

Avalon

17th February 2007, 01:46 PM

Firstly – I have to say that I’m all for pointing out the negatives in NZ life – and rigorously defend peoples need and right to post about their struggles. People DO need to hear that it can be difficult to settle here, as much as they need to hear how amazing it can be.

That being said – I don’t think this is a wind up – and I find Bkp’s post highly offensive. It’s full of inaccuracies – which seem to be based on nothing but bad research and a lousy attitude. I mean – can’t get a mortgage on a work visa???? Can’t access Public health???? Even on visitors visas, my family are getting huge amount out of the health system – as are friends of mine on Work Visas.

This is a very harsh post – so please don’t read it if you are likely to be offended – because I make no apologies for it.

What has really got me so angry is this:

9. You will not pay one third of your salary for tax and get nothing in return.

BPK, you have previously complained about this – and the fact that as a person who didn’t apply for PR (because you didn’t bother to find out the differences) you cannot get benefits paid to you to support you, your wife and children.

I am not entitled to any benifits as comming with work permit and not a immigrant! despite the fact that I am paying more than one third of my income as a tax. NOT FAIR at all! isn't is?

The rule is: if you work and pay tax, you are entitled to benifits regardless of your nationality or residency.

Why the hell do you think you should get anything off the taxpayers of New Zealand just because you pay tax for gods sake? Even if you wre on PR - why the hell do you EXPECT benefits??? Why the hell do you think my husband should go out to work 40 hours a week and pay 39% in taxes just so that YOU can get some extra money to pay for YOUR family????? My husband goes out to work to support OUR family – not for your benefit. I would appreciate it if you would take a moment to consider all the other New Zealanders, and members of this forum who you also expect to go out and earn money for your benefit. In fact in 13 years of us both paying taxes we have never got a bean out of any government!

Tell you what – lets cut out the middleman shall we? As you seem to feel entitled to have others look after you – why not spend 2 days a week bringing your family to my house. I’ll cook for them, clothe them, and clean up after them. Ill do their laundry (Although as I have to stick to budget because so much of my husbands salary already goes to pay towards raising other peoples families – I’m sure you will understand that I cannot afford to use the tumble dryer during the day. And we may have to make do with the food in the freezer, as I cannot afford to buy food in specially. If only I didn’t have to pay taxes!)

I find your “Entitlement attitude” to be truly sickening. I don’t say this lightly. I also find your hypocrisy similarly unpalatable. On the one had – you feel that benefits should be paid out to you to support your family simply because you have paid some tax (not because you are in genuine need). On the other hand – you object strenuously to having to pay a whole third of your salary in taxes! Surely you understand that it’s people like you who feel they are entitled to something off the state that also means people like you have to pay whole third of your salary in taxes?????

Indeed in the UK, I can’t speak for working conditions across all of the now 25 member EU, we don’t have to pay 33% of my salary in taxes, we get to spend 51% of salary in taxes. Of the 49% remaining, we get to contribute 17.5% of what we spend on VAT, plus duties on petrol, alcohol, local taxes for the right to live in the house we own and so on.

We then get the benefit of paying for a private pension. On the good side we don’t mind contributing taxation money to the Govt. to support pensioners who have made a contribution to our country, enjoyed the benefits of our modern health system, and aren’t dropping dead the day after they retire. Great, I’m glad they are able to enjoy their retirement, even if as a nation we are too selfish to contribute to a pension that gives them more than a subsistence standard of living. I too look forward to the day, in 40 years time, when I get to retire, oh – yes – and pay yet more tax on my private pension because instead of assuming that we are entitled to live off of the work of others, we have made some provision for our future.

Plus we get to pay for private medical insurance, subject to VAT again, because I know that the NHS (other than getting me swiftly to an emergency department when I collapse with a heart attack due to stress, or a traffic accident) can’t support me in my time of need in a manner that actually gets me back into the productive economy in a useful time frame. Despite having a budget greater than the GDP of many small countries, the NHS is grossly inefficient, is collapsing under the weight of the “entitlement” culture that many of those demanding services from it have. I may not have to pay “at the time of use” for the NHS, but I do have to pay through the nose in advance, irrespective of how much I use it’s services.

BKP, with respect – its not New Zealand’s fault that you didn’t know the difference between PR and a Work Visa. Its not New Zealand’s fault that you didn’t realise the country lies on an active fault line. Its certainly not New Zealand’s fault that you do not understand about NZ mortgages. Its not New Zealand’s fault that you seem surprised about the costs of immigration. Its certainly not New Zealand’s fault that it 25 hours away from “civilisation” (not sure how you missed that one to be honest) All these things are discussed at length on this very forum. If you haven’t done the research – that’s YOUR fault. I realise its always going to be the case that, as a potential migrant, you will miss something – but come on! You don’t even seem to understand the basics of the process. Please stop whining about it.

As for:
6. No one will ask you: Why are you coming here?

I think that’s a very good question – because to be honest – I can’t see why you came here either :confused: . This is so much more than struggling to adapt to a new country. I could have sympathy and understanding for that. I cannot have sympathy or understanding for your attitude that NZ should bend over backwards for you because you feel you have a right to it.

bpk

17th February 2007, 01:52 PM

Firstly – I have to say that I’m all for pointing out the negatives in NZ life – and rigorously defend peoples need and right to post about their struggles. People DO need to hear that it can be difficult to settle here, as much as they need to hear how amazing it can be.

That being said – I don’t think this is a wind up – and I find Bkp’s post highly offensive. It’s full of inaccuracies – which seem to be based on nothing but bad research and a lousy attitude. I mean – can’t get a mortgage on a work visa???? Can’t access Public health???? Even on visitors visas, my family are getting huge amount out of the health system – as are friends of mine on Work Visas.

This is a very harsh post – so please don’t read it if you are likely to be offended – because I make no apologies for it.

What has really got me so angry is this:

BPK, you have previously complained about this – and the fact that as a person who didn’t apply for PR (because you didn’t bother to find out the differences) you cannot get benefits paid to you to support you, your wife and children.

Why the hell do you think you should get anything off the taxpayers of New Zealand just because you pay tax for gods sake? Even if you wre on PR - why the hell do you EXPECT benefits??? Why the hell do you think my husband should go out to work 40 hours a week and pay 39% in taxes just so that YOU can get some extra money to pay for YOUR family????? My husband goes out to work to support OUR family – not for your benefit. I would appreciate it if you would take a moment to consider all the other New Zealanders, and members of this forum who you also expect to go out and earn money for your benefit. In fact in 13 years of us both paying taxes we have never got a bean out of any government!

Tell you what – lets cut out the middleman shall we? As you seem to feel entitled to have others look after you – why not spend 2 days a week bringing your family to my house. I’ll cook for them, clothe them, and clean up after them. Ill do their laundry (Although as I have to stick to budget because so much of my husbands salary already goes to pay towards raising other peoples families – I’m sure you will understand that I cannot afford to use the tumble dryer during the day. And we may have to make do with the food in the freezer, as I cannot afford to buy food in specially. If only I didn’t have to pay taxes!)

I find your “Entitlement attitude” to be truly sickening. I don’t say this lightly. I also find your hypocrisy similarly unpalatable. On the one had – you feel that benefits should be paid out to you to support your family simply because you have paid some tax (not because you are in genuine need). On the other hand – you object strenuously to having to pay a whole third of your salary in taxes! Surely you understand that it’s people like you who feel they are entitled to something off the state that also means people like you have to pay whole third of your salary in taxes?????

Indeed in the UK, I can’t speak for working conditions across all of the now 25 member EU, we don’t have to pay 33% of my salary in taxes, we get to spend 51% of salary in taxes. Of the 49% remaining, we get to contribute 17.5% of what we spend on VAT, plus duties on petrol, alcohol, local taxes for the right to live in the house we own and so on.

We then get the benefit of paying for a private pension. On the good side we don’t mind contributing taxation money to the Govt. to support pensioners who have made a contribution to our country, enjoyed the benefits of our modern health system, and aren’t dropping dead the day after they retire. Great, I’m glad they are able to enjoy their retirement, even if as a nation we are too selfish to contribute to a pension that gives them more than a subsistence standard of living. I too look forward to the day, in 40 years time, when I get to retire, oh – yes – and pay yet more tax on my private pension because instead of assuming that we are entitled to live off of the work of others, we have made some provision for our future.

Plus we get to pay for private medical insurance, subject to VAT again, because I know that the NHS (other than getting me swiftly to an emergency department when I collapse with a heart attack due to stress, or a traffic accident) can’t support me in my time of need in a manner that actually gets me back into the productive economy in a useful time frame. Despite having a budget greater than the GDP of many small countries, the NHS is grossly inefficient, is collapsing under the weight of the “entitlement” culture that many of those demanding services from it have. I may not have to pay “at the time of use” for the NHS, but I do have to pay through the nose in advance, irrespective of how much I use it’s services.

BKP, with respect – its not New Zealand’s fault that you didn’t know the difference between PR and a Work Visa. Its not New Zealand’s fault that you didn’t realise the country lies on an active fault line. Its certainly not New Zealand’s fault that you do not understand about NZ mortgages. Its not New Zealand’s fault that you seem surprised about the costs of immigration. Its certainly not New Zealand’s fault that it 25 hours away from “civilisation” (not sure how you missed that one to be honest) All these things are discussed at length on this very forum. If you haven’t done the research – that’s YOUR fault. I realise its always going to be the case that, as a potential migrant, you will miss something – but come on! You don’t even seem to understand the basics of the process. Please stop whining about it.

I think that’s a very good question – because to be honest – I can’t see why you came here either :confused: . This is so much more than struggling to adapt to a new country. I could have sympathy and understanding for that. I cannot have sympathy or understanding for your attitude that NZ should bend over backwards for you because you feel you have a right to it.

I am in rush now, but I will come to your post later. I think I am free to express my feeling and my thoughts about NZ, which is not nessesarily satisfy you or is positive.
You can not prevent me from that just because you do not like it!

Carol

17th February 2007, 01:59 PM

I doubt very much that ANYONE moving here has had an "easy" time and has loved every single moment of it from the minute they set foot on NZ soil.

EVERYONE comes up against problems and has to find ways of working around things. Or discovering they have been "mis-informed' in some way.

The only thing that makes the major difference is personal attitude towards overcoming those problems.

Yes bpk - you have the right to express whatever you wish.
But I can't believe you didn't see a post like Avalon's coming.

I get the feeling your mind was made up about a lot of this before you even came here.....

gil

17th February 2007, 02:59 PM

I am in rush now, but I will come to your post later.

I am busy now, but I will come to your post later

bpk,
Slow down, take your time! Your first post about "15 reasons" was also obviously written in a rush too, as you did not spend time creating any context for people to understand how to take your meaning. Written communication needs additional care and thought so that misunderstandings and confusion are reduced, if not eliminated.

No one is questioning your right to express your views, every person on the forum has the same right to free speech, but what I would say is that to balance our right to free speech, we all have to take responsibility for expressing ourselves clearly. It might have been helpful to us, your readers if you had mentioned you were preparing "15 reasons why NZ is better than EU" or mentioned something of the frustation that led you to create that list, rather than printing a bald list of negatives about the country that has allowed you to come here to live and work.

Gil

Avalon

17th February 2007, 04:15 PM

You can not prevent me from that just because you do not like it!

Your ignorance continues to astound me!

I am not trying to prevent you from anything - im just telling you that I think your attitude stinks and you need to stop whining! Expressing your frustration is one thing whining about things that YOU failed to find out is entirely different. Coming to a new country with a entitlement attitude is quite another. And blaming an entire country for your failings is ridiculous.

I will always defend a persons right to post thier feelings - and it shows how little yyou seem to read this forum that you do not know that.

I happen to utterly dissagree with what you wrote - I happen to dissagree with almost everything you ever write - ive just felt in the past that you were not worth the bother of arguing with. You are not interested in making your life work - that much is obvious. If you were - you may have spent some time researching on this forum to find the answers to some your problems.

I persoanlly have no time for people who complain about how unfair life is when they fail to make the basic effort to sort it out.

You cannot stop me saying things either.

Deal with it!

anna_c

17th February 2007, 04:36 PM

I think being critical of aspects of NZ is useful. Some of BPK's points I agree with, some I disagree, some I see as inaccurate, some as irrelevent. That's not the issue. However I don't understand why this is framed as an attack on New Zealand. You object to certain aspects but still want to move here - sure, I feel the same. But if you're so anti-NZ then why?

Also, Europe is a big place with lots of different policies and laws which apply differently to different people - remember your personal experience is not necessarily the norm. I know people who've had many more problems immigrating to the UK than a lot of people have to NZ. I am sympathetic to your experience, but the flip side of that is you should be aware of other people's negative experiences elsewhere.

stu70

17th February 2007, 04:49 PM

What shocks me more than the original poster's note is how emotionally involved some are getting with the whole thing. I might read a million things on various forums and still not be swayed by any of it if I so choose. It is that simple! No reason to get bent out of shape over any one's comments or remarks. Just my 2 cents. Regards,

Avalon

17th February 2007, 05:05 PM

What shocks me more than the original poster's note is how emotionally involved some are getting with the whole thing.

Well, I cant speak for anyone else - but I AM an emotional person if that helps;)

I am aslo clearly not on one side or the other when it comes to whether people find NZ a great place or hell on earth. People have to find thier own path - and for each of us that is different. I can respect that - and go to great lengths on this forum (and get quite a bit of bashing from time to time because of it) to ask that these differences be respected.

I do not feel that I can respect anything that Bkp has said here. I am utterly incredulous at some of things he claims to be the case that clearly are not. I dont see how that helps anyone.

I guess what this comes down to - is that while you cannot understand (for example) my emotional reaction - I also cannot understand why Bkp ever came to New Zealand, and why he feels so entitled to be worshipped by NZ just because he has skills that they need. Dont we all? I cannot understand why Bkp continues to get "bent out of shape" (good phrase!) because he has to pay tax!

I dont think I ever will.

As ever - its just my opinion - emotional though it may be :nice1

If we all chose not to react to these posts - well there wouldnt be any point in having the forum - would there? Lets face it - you were shocked enough to post - surely thats the same as me. I too was shocked enough to post.;)

dean1968

17th February 2007, 08:27 PM

That should serve as warning for other potential migrants who decide to move to NZ. People who shift to NZ should at least do their homework. Now if I was going to live in Muslim country I would at least find out about the customs, etiquette, history etc. Don’t eat pork or ham whatever, don’t drink alcohol, gambling a no-no, and religion in some of these countries is more powerful than the state.

Take NZ, migrants should develop an historical perspective. Do some political and social analysis. NZ is a cradle to the grave the state, looks after you when you are born till you die mentality, high social welfare spending, along with high taxes to support it.

The points system is still flawed in my opinion. The moved the goal posts every time to stop too many migrants flooding the country. In the last 10 years a high number were Asian migrants. Xenophobia was a problem here. It is very short sighted. Long term we need new migrants to work and pay the taxes to support the future elderly New Zealander’s by 2050. When they hit retirement age there is going to be a huge fiscal blow out in the pensions, with the current demographics. NZ will be bankrupt to support it.

I know someone who is a new migrant a dentist who would have to resit his exams here in NZ. IT would take 3 years. He has not got the time or inclination. It is similar with many other professions like Doctors and engineers. They have to resit their exams to quality. It is a long and arduous process. We need more doctors etc but that profession makes if very hard for a new migrant. It is a close shop. New migrants are under the mistaken impression that are going to be able to work in NZ with their existing qualifications and credentials. That is not the case at all.

The points system is still designed for a highly educated migrant to qualify for residence. The problem that is we have had nuclear engineers and physicists work here for a living as a taxi driver. People should do their homework. NZ does not have a high tech industry. We don’t build cars, computers, aeroplanes and pharmaceuticals. 1 in 10 people work in the tourism industry. NZ is an agricultural country. I know New Zealanders who have high power degrees like biotechnology and that have to move overseas if they want to work. Or have to go overseas to gain a doctorate in Maths It is just ludicrous to think that there are going to get high paying jobs here in NZ with the same job they had in their former homeland. Most of the jobs are low wages and menial jobs. NZ could be a world leader in agriculture with biotechnology genetically modified plants or animals. The science is not new, farmers have been doing this for centuries naturally trying to breed the best (hybrid) crops, fruits flowrs, plants and livestock. Trying to produce the best cows for milk production or plants to combat pests, etc. Genetic is a dirty word here in NZ. The political Green party has stranglehold on any genetically engineered xperimentation. The only new thing NZ has done recently is to tap into Asia with English language schools. Many Asian migrants come here on a temporary VISA to study English.

In my book new migrants are intellectual capital. They are worth their weight in gold. NZ does not need a new factory to create jobs.. It only takes one new migrant who usually is a risk taker / entrepreneurial, a go getter, A-type personality someone with flair to develop and start a new business. One ideal can revolutionise the market and create a new product or service.

A read this funny comment where this investor said to stay away from hi-tech and don’t invest in pioneering. He said you have people around the world thinking 24 hours a day to come up with something new that will make your product obsolete overnight.

I am all for new migrants. They are the only ones who are going to keep NZ afloat.

able

17th February 2007, 08:59 PM

I know someone who is a new migrant a dentist who would have to resit his exams here in NZ. IT would take 3 years. He has not got the time or inclination. It is similar with many other professions like Doctors and engineers. They have to resit their exams to quality. It is a long and arduous process.

For UK dentists at any rate it seems to be straightforward to work in New Zealand. No delays at all.

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showpost.php?p=96016&postcount=3

Sam B

17th February 2007, 10:34 PM

It would be boring if none of us had emotional responses to stuff on here. I have enjoyed reading this thread more than any other for ages. I want to meet bpk in real life just to see if he really is that ignorant! Bpk - are you just winding people up or are you really that irritating?? Please tell me.

StevieD

17th February 2007, 11:38 PM

Maybe bpk struggles with the English language - especially if it as second language, and he finds difficulty in expressing his views, which is hard enough on a forum at the best of time anyway!

However, reading his original post, I in no way support his moral stance re-benefits, if he means social benefits, or his take on the emigration process as he only started last October.

To take the short route sometimes mean you lose out in other ways, no use crying over spilt milk. We have been on this rollercoaster for 3 years now, and we don't expect to get benefits (whatever that means) much less than we do here in Britain.

It would be interesting to know bpk's background, what his family thought of moving to NZ, and whether it was by choice or whether it was work related?

I know that to benefit from a system you must pay in to it. This is why Britain is creaking at the seams because there are too many takers and not enough givers. I don't think 39% is particularly bad, if that is what you pay. As Avalon pointed out, the tax burden up here is a lot worse, with so many hidden taxes that the real burden is a lot higher than the headline rate.

Just some thoughts.... and questions.

Sam B

17th February 2007, 11:48 PM

Yeah, come on bpk. Tell us all about yourself! Why are you always in a rush? Why did you come here (ha ha)?

wiki

18th February 2007, 12:06 AM

I've had the advantage of living in both the UK and NZ for a long period.

I grew up in Te Anau - for those that have been it's very tourist centric on the edge of Fiordland National Park. I (and many of my friends) hated the place because it was isolated, full of tourists and dead in winter...

After a year in Manchester I came back and was blown away by how beautiful Te Anau was. All the things I used to hate about it were completely overwhelmed by realising how much I had taken for granted.

It took my year in Manchester to make me realise what I'd left behind - and maybe that's the same for bpk now?

When you are used to living in a place you can get very apapethic to even its best points. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that, and so the pull of a brand-new place can seem super glittery and special compared to your own back yard.

The truth is - where you live is what you make of it. And a lot of it comes down to expectations: NZ is full of human beings, just like the UK and it's those human beings that have the biggest impact on how we view where we live.

In the UK and NZ are areas hardly touched by crime, unemployment, immigration and benefit reliance and our attitudes to these are always formed by how much these things touch our lives.

Our attitudes are formed by what we experience - the experiences of others will always be coloured by our own points-of-view and we're never all going to see the same things in the same way.

For the record, I disagree with a lot of bpk's points - but I've not had to live their life, nor do I have/had the same expectations of what life in another country is life.

I know I'm damn lucky to be able to live in either the UK or NZ easily (and hopefully OH will get PR and have the same ability) but I'm under no illusions that whichever country we live in, the goods and the bads will entirely be based on our adaptibility and attitudes.

Soon2baKiwi

18th February 2007, 01:07 AM

Like someone else said (many pages ago lol) I too read but don't post so often any more.

I also believe everyone's experiences will be different and one man's meat is another man's poison and all that, but as Bkp is talking about Europe I can quite categorically say that I used to spend 2.5 hours minimum travelling 80kms each way every day to work in Dublin. if I travel that length of time now, I'm nearly in Rotorua :D We download a lot of our favourite tv shows here (usually around 300mbs a time - ouch) and it takes up to but not more than 2 hours, depending on the time of day. And we're in Auckland too. If you're in Europe and want to call your family in NZ you've got to think about the time difference too and I also thought about Wales when reading the point about the place names. Actually my Kiwi hubby had an awful time trying to get his tongue around some of the names in Ireland. I wonder how many we'd be able to pronounce in Bkp's home country???????

I'll always defend people's right to say what they feel but not when they are misrepresenting facts. I actually think that's mean, and unfair to people who are looking to a forum for answers.

Great post Avalon. :clap

jailhouse

18th February 2007, 01:13 AM

Well, first of all, can i say what an emotional roller coaster this thread has been. I have never read a thread by Avalon so emotional (and i have read many of her threads to glean information) and both agree, and disagree with some of her points.

Yes we pay VAT - in NZ you pay GST - Yes you pay 33% in tax - We in the UK pay 22% lower rate tax and around 11% National Insurance contributions so things level out on that part. I agree 100% that here in the UK there are more takers than givers, we also are under pressure with our NHS and Pension system. I like the idea that in NZ you pay towards your health care system, i bet it cuts dowwn on the time wasters who dial the ambulance for a "migraine". Things have got that serious here in the UK, that because we have such a large amount of non English speaking immigrants\residents, the government has announced that unless claimants learn to speak English to assist them in finding employment their benefits will suffer.

bpk, whether he is spouting off through anger, frustration, drink or poor English (causing his thread to be mis-interpreted), i cannot believe that he has moved to NZ, knowing the wages are ridicuously low, (i have applied for a Govt job at $40,000 to prove i can work my way up the ladder - but do not expect any help from the NZ State, i am making the decision to apply for PR - no one is forcing me) i also find it repulsive to think that as a new comer, who, in the short period he has been here, expects the state to support him. Sorry bpk, i am all for free speech, but a free ride, NO way. This is what our problem is here in the UK, but for us, i personally believe it is to late to rectify.

bpk is correct in his point (partly) about health treatment in the EU. If you are from the UK you can get a form E111 which entitles you to basic (emergence\immediate) care, but does not entitle you to use the health care system of that country for ailments, eg, dental without paying.

Avalon, one thing i have learned from this thread is IT products are expensive, slow down on that keyboard i can feel the heat from here LOL.

jh

veronica

18th February 2007, 01:14 AM

I've come to the conclusion that all of BPKs whinges are just done to stir people up, if they were all serious he wouldn't be here.

jailhouse

18th February 2007, 01:42 AM

I've come to the conclusion that all of BPKs whinges are just done to stir people up, if they were all serious he wouldn't be here.

It makes you wonder though Veronica, he states he could get PR easily with his skills, so i either conclude that he is being paid very poorly for his skills, does not have the skills and is being paid "minimul wages" and is now "stuck here" without the funds to get back home, wherever that may be.

If it is the latter, it is a shame to be stranded somewhere you do not want to be, hence he is still here.

Come on BPK, what's your comment on this. What's your trade, where are you, is money that tight for you? If any of these, let people know, even though you may think they are all anti, the combined wealth of information on here may help you out, and may surprise you how willing people are to help your stay in NZ go as smoothly as possible.

Avalon, Gil, Veronica and the rest are very knowledgeable, if they don't have the answer, someone on this forum will, or put themselves out to find the info for you. Don't be too proud, grumpy or feel you have dug yourself a big hole, that you can't ask for help.

jh

stu70

18th February 2007, 02:21 AM

Avalon, one thing i have learned from this thread is IT products are expensive, slow down on that keyboard i can feel the heat from here LOL.

jh

Excellent point. This is what one needs, a good sense of humour. Another thing that stands out; no matter how "far off the mark" bpk's comment were/are, he did not start out attacking any "person" on the forum. I have read some comments and people have been calling him names. I don't think it makes you look better to have this "holier than thou" attitude. Again just my personal view. I also believe very strongly that for most of us there is a "life" outside the forum. Cheers

able

18th February 2007, 03:06 AM

Carol

18th February 2007, 08:52 AM

I'm very happy to have read through all of the responses. If all the fantastic forum members hadn't taken the time and trouble to respond, I, or someone just beginning to look at New Zealand, might have thought BPK's views/experiences were commonplace in the migrant community. The large number of responses indicates they are not. So thank you to everyone.

Yes - and THAT is my concern - because as I said before - we ALL experience problems and down time.
Some more than others.

If you are at the point when all you can see is disappointment, frustration, unhappiness and resentment - as bpk's post seems to suggest - it may be time to either:

a) go home
b) Attempt to find a way of dealing with the issues - perhaps by asking for advice from the helpful members of a forum like this
c) Get some help/advice about how you are "feeling" generally - perhaps it needs some medical intervention.

or there may be other alternatives.....

I am sure we are all hopeful that bpk DOES have 15 positives to share with us as he/she has implied in another post.

Come on bpk!
Let's have 'em!
:yes

wobbler

18th February 2007, 10:33 AM

Ooops I can't believe everyone is getting so worked up about the orginal poster - anyone who feels place names are reason why one place is better than another is just messing with us. Still its fun read. And I am enjoying it even more knowing within 24hrs we'll be on our way to NZ for a 'reccie'! Just how many bags of Walkers should I bring to share?

Avalon

18th February 2007, 10:35 AM

Avalon, one thing i have learned from this thread is IT products are expensive, slow down on that keyboard i can feel the heat from here LOL.

jh
:laugh

When I write a post like that - shall we say "emotional" - I write it in Word, (and yes - quite fast) - then spend some time editing it and re reading it. And often get OH to look through it. (A second pair of eyes is never a bad thing in my book - makes sure I havent said anything too completely out of order!)

What comes out and gets posted may not be nice and fluffy :laugh but it is thought about, and it is what I really think - right or wrong.

Writing in word gets the anger and frustration out of my system. To be honest - I wasnt sure I woudl even post it - but after I had finished it - I thought why the hell not?

I think for these types of threads - writing the post and THEN putting it on the forum can really help crystalise what you think

(I have a spare keyboard waiting in the wings:laugh )

Hxxx

Avalon

18th February 2007, 10:53 AM

Excellent point. This is what one needs, a good sense of humour. s

I do hope you are not trying to imply that i dont have a sense of humour :laugh

Besides - I thought there was no point in reply to anything :laugh Why are you getting so worked up about this may I ask?

Also - forgive me for saying so - but its a bit off to have a go at this thread for its "holier than thou" postings - when you are sat there doing the same thing to the people posting on it.;)

jailhouse

18th February 2007, 11:06 AM

(I have a spare keyboard waiting in the wings:laugh )
Hxxx[/QUOTE]

Luckily, it is an inanimate object, or else it would be shaking its keys loose :laugh

All in all, stimulating post.;)

jh

Avalon

18th February 2007, 11:09 AM

(I have a spare keyboard waiting in the wings:laugh )
Hxxx

Luckily, it is an inanimate object, or else it would be shaking its keys loose :laugh

All in all, stimulating post.;)

jh
If I didnt excerisise it regularly - it would get fat :laugh

zardell

18th February 2007, 11:14 AM

I'm very happy to have read through all of the responses. If all the fantastic forum members hadn't taken the time and trouble to respond, I, or someone just beginning to look at New Zealand, might have thought BPK's views/experiences were commonplace in the migrant community. The large number of responses indicates they are not. So thank you to everyone.

Exactly !!

I'm all for differences of opinion - that's what helps to make the world go round, but to make such strong generalisations such as BPK's post implies is, in my opinion bound by its very nature to cause controversy.

I accept that allowances have to made for an individuals adaptability to settle in a new host country, I'm sure we can all understand that, but surely it should go without saying that 'research, research, research' also plays a big part in a persons decision to migrate in the first place.

We (like many other forum members) had PR before we left the UK and had to go through very rigorous procedures with NZIS before it was granted to us.

If we could not have proved to NZIS that we had the capability to settle and support ourselves in NZ then we and others like us would never have been granted our PR.

To all of you who are still in the process have a look at BPK's post and investigate it for yourselves.

If after that investigation you feel that some of BPK's post rings true to you and that NZ may not offer you the type of lifestyle you are after then save yourself a lot of money and heartache and PLEASE reconsider.

Julie

xx