[Caroline and Dave]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/davros1nz/2113.gifHi all,excuse me for being stupid but I have seen mentioned here about the "stupid turn right rule" in NZ but can someone explain it so I can understand it.In all the travel websites they all say watch the turn right rule but no one ever explains it. Is it really a problem?

Kindest regards

Dave and Caroline

[wiki]

It's only a problem if someone hits you when they had right of way :)

If you are turning left and a car travelling in the opposite direction is turning right into the same street you have to wait and let them turn first. (even thought they are the ones crossing the line of traffic)

When my Dad taught me to drive he said the easy way to remember it is that if your driver-side door gets hit then you are at fault.

It takes me a while to adjust to when I'm back in NZ - you have to remember to watch the traffic coming towards you as well as for pedestrians crossing in front of you on the turning road!

Someone might have a more technical explanation...

The only exception would be on a dual carriageway when you can see the straight-ahead lane is full of cars that will stop that other car turning.

[Moorf]

Whilst remembering that any oncoming traffic NOT turning don't have to stop behind the car waiting to let you turn in... that's how our last car got written off :roll

[Croft]

Try this page from the NZ Road Code...

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-uncontrolled-intersections.html

Seems to cover most situations!

[kimandgareth]

Try this page from the NZ Road Code...

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/giving-way-at-uncontrolled-intersections.html

Seems to cover most situations!

Thanks Croft - I'll note these down before we set off on our trip - and remember to tell Gareth about it before we get into the car ;)

[Caroline and Dave]

Thankyou Croft for the link. It seems a daft rule.Who on earth thought that one up. Imagine the chaos it would cause in the UK if you gave everyone turning right when you are turning left the right of way.

Kindest regards

Dave and Carolinehttp://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/davros1nz/2034.gif

[SarahEDH]

I have to say, I caused some chaos myself yesterday in Petone by giving everyone the right of way because I had so little idea of what I was doing, or should be doing. It was my first day behind the wheel in a left-drive culture. My, that was exciting:uhoh Was never so glad to get back to the rental unit and reach for a glass of wine . . .

[Rizak]

Just bring some along next time. No point in putting it off, right?

[SarahEDH]

Well, if I wanted to make a splash in the local newspaper with a shiny new DUI/DWI conviction for the neighbours to read, why sure, I could take that bottle along.

[jen]

I have to say, I caused some chaos myself yesterday in Petone by giving everyone the right of way because I had so little idea of what I was doing, or should be doing.

Sarah, I can SO relate to that - I still pretty much give anyone the right of way who even looks like they're thinking about going for it. :o

Congrats on surviving your first day of left-hand driving! It gets easier; after 2 months I'm doing OK though I still feel like I don't have a good handle on how far over my left mirror is (still attached to the car, so must not be that bad). And parallel parking is definitely one of those things I miss knowing how to do. *sigh*

Jen

[Rizak]

This would all be so much easier if we had flying cars ...

[SarahEDH]

Sarah, I can SO relate to that - I still pretty much give anyone the right of way who even looks like they're thinking about going for it. :o

Congrats on surviving your first day of left-hand driving! It gets easier; after 2 months I'm doing OK though I still feel like I don't have a good handle on how far over my left mirror is (still attached to the car, so must not be that bad). And parallel parking is definitely one of those things I miss knowing how to do. *sigh*

Jen

Thanks Jen. It helps to hear you say that, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't pick up on it right away.

I studied the rules somewhat while still in California but of course that can't prepare you for the panic/disorientation of seeing large vehicles coming at you from directions you don't expect.

Yeah, the parallel parking thing -- I took out the front left hubcap on my rental car yesterday by misjudging the distance to the curb. I hit the curb so hard that the hubcap popped off completely and now bears huge scrapes. I'll report back to the forum on what this ends up costing me. How embarrassing. :uhoh

[nippa&pippa]

But not everyone follow the right turn rule as we had few didn't bother stop for us at junction or traffic lights!! Maybe it is tourists :laugh as we live near the chch airport! Don't Forgot right way rule when you get here for reccie!!

[gil]

The thing I find most difficult about the right turn rule is not remembering to stop to allow someone to turn right when I'm wanting to turn left, but when I am the person turning right and someone turning left stops for me!
Gil

[nippa&pippa]

Not only right way rule you need to aware of it...parallel parking, you must park your car facing same way as the traffic flowing. You can't across the road to park the car other side (like in UK) unless you made U turn then park the car. Otherwise, the police will either fine you or tow your vehicle away. Did anyone had their car towed away yet????

[Kim39]

Not only right way rule you need to aware of it...parallel parking, you must park your car facing same way as the traffic flowing. You can't across the road to park the car other side (like in UK) unless you made U turn then park the car. Otherwise, the police will either fine you or tow your vehicle away. Did anyone had their car towed away yet????

That rule is also in the UK just not adhered(sp) to as much. This right turn rule is an absolute joke, and i am under the impression that the person who decided on this was wiped out by just doing this turn. Could be wrong but quite a few folk have told me this.

Kim

[stu70]

This right turn rule is an absolute joke, and i am under the impression that the person who decided on this was wiped out by just doing this turn. Could be wrong but quite a few folk have told me this.

Kim
Yikes, that hurts...So the fella was a few fries short of a happy meal but did not deserve the dirt nap.

[Nathan]

Do I understand the link properly? Does anyone going straight and, otherwise, anyone to your right (even if it's just a little to the right in the on-coming lane) has the right-of-way?

[marcia]

I have now remembered to go when its my turn!! :clap

I was good at remembered to give way to others, but kept forgetting when it was my turn to go, the number of frustrated faces I've seen sitting there waiting for me to go!!! Oops!! But noe I remember it by saying - 'turning right - right of way' it does seem strange to us, however we are living in a different country, you just have to get used the 'quirky' things you find strange!!

For those on reccy trips, especially in motor homes be extra cautious at junctions, and watch out for other 'tourists' in camper vans who don't know the rule!!:nice1

My advice - if in doubt hesitate a second!

[highlander]

Yes the rule seems a little wierd after years of driving under UK rules.

The result of this, combined with giving way to pedestrians at crossings when turning left, is that in town on multi-lane roads, the left lane is held up or stationary with drivers waiting to turn left, while the right hand lanes move more freely. This is the opposite to the UK where the queues tend to build up in the right hand lanes.

It seems to me that the NZ highway code is based upon courtesy (giving way to those who might have problems otherwise) whereas the UK code is based upon selfishness (if its easy do it, and anyone else can wait).

It does kind of work OK here because (down south anyway) the traffic is relatively calm compared to London, drivers are relatively patient and stick to the speed limits (which is kinda odd coming from London where no-one drives to the speed limit). You just have to slow down, chill out and take your time. It doesnt take that long to get anywhere locally anyway.

[StevieD]

Moorf, soooooo tired, took me a few moments to work out what happened to your car - you mean you were rear ended?? Obviously not watching where they were going.

[StevieD]

Thanks for that link, totally confusing - bit like dodgems if you ask me!!

[Croft]

Moorf, soooooo tired, took me a few moments to work out what happened to your car - you mean you were rear ended?? Obviously not watching where they were going.

Into the passenger side? I'm thinking Moorf was turning right - vehicle turning left was giving way, but oncoming traffic with priority took them out as they turned?

[StevieD]

aarrrrrghhhhh!!! :laugh must get my priorities right - shippers coming tomorrow and house looks like a war zone. Gotta get it sorted. Forget the turn right rule :laugh

[Caroline and Dave]

We had friends around last night who are from New Zealand and the discussion got onto the right turn rule.In their experience they reckon it causes more accidents than prevents mostly down to the fact that the rest of the world does not have this rule(Not sure about Oz)They said that a few years ago they were turning right and the cars turning left stopped for them but a car behind these cars going straight on who had the right of way crashed into them. They reckoned he done it deliberatley so he could claim off their insurance to get his old car fixed. I think its about time this daft rule was changed

regards http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q109/davros1nz/7_2_110.gif

Dave and Caroline

[diforsyth]

The biggest misunderstanding about the right hand turn rule is that it only applies on unmarked sections of the road i.e. there is not a give way or stop line for the driver turning right (how an left turning driver can see this is a bit of a mystery to me).

My understanding of it's origin was for clearing single lane roads of turning traffic as quickly as possible - in my opinion this can really be done through courtesy and avoids all the problems (& accidents) through misinterpretation.

David.

[Moorf]

Moorf, soooooo tired, took me a few moments to work out what happened to your car - you mean you were rear ended?? Obviously not watching where they were going.

Noooo, we were T-boned (is that the right phrase?!) in the passenger side by a car who was behind one that had stopped to let us go first (we were turning in right). He put his foot down, overtaking the car letting us go, and accelerated straight in to us as we were making the turn.

[Ana&Steve]

Noooo, we were T-boned (is that the right phrase?!) in the passenger side by a car who was behind one that had stopped to let us go first (we were turning in right). He put his foot down, overtaking the car letting us go, and accelerated straight in to us as we were making the turn.Hey Moorf, I was wondering, what happens next? Is there fault to be doled out? Who's "fault" would it be in the situation you described? Is there monetary compensation ONLY if someone has personal car insurance?
Sorry for all the questions, just tryin' to learn!:nice1
Ana

[nippa&pippa]

Even if you made mistake of not watch out for traffic behind that car stop for your right of way, this traffic doesn't bother slowing down....aarrgghhh, once or twice i did this, i had speed up to get out the way of oncoming traffic before nearly hit my daughter as she sit on the left side of car at the back....because they won't stop or slow down for your mistake! :mad:

Did anyone move child because of this...i am very tempting to move her car seat into middle seat just in case to protect her or i am just be silly? I AM trying to remember to look out for incoming traffic behind the car...but getting there.

[KerryS]

Is there monetary compensation ONLY if someone has personal car insurance?


There is no monetary compensation in NZ.
ACC covers any injury incurred through accident, and any damage to Moorf's vehicle would be covered either by her own insurance or that of the person responsible for crash. (I'm not too sure who that would have been in her situation...) If neither party had vehicle insurance then they would have had to pay for their repairs.

[borea]

Noooo, we were T-boned (is that the right phrase?!) in the passenger side by a car who was behind one that had stopped to let us go first (we were turning in right). He put his foot down, overtaking the car letting us go, and accelerated straight in to us as we were making the turn.

Yikes, Moorf. That's a scary situation. In my opinion, you got caught by the key weakness of the right turn rule. Other than tourists getting confused, I think it could be argued that it doesn't matter who has the right of way as long as everyone understands the rule. Where that argument falls over is exactly the situation that you described. I've had a close call that way myself.

The classic bad situation is that one car is waiting to turn left and another to turn right. Traffic is coming up behind the car turning left and it's a two lane road (one each way). Many roads are wide enough for the overtaking car to squeeze by. But will they? The overtaking car will slow down a bit due to the tight fit. The right turning car may then go for it and get creamed because the straight through car swings around the left turning car. The left turning car also wants to be on their way and is trying to decide if the right turning car is going to wait for the straight through traffic or not. So they're looking in their mirror, at the other car in front and at pedestrians all at the same time, while trying to read everybody's mind.

When I was adjusting to the rule, I had one other really bad near miss. I found that I could stop and think about it when I was going to make a turn, but it wasn't natural. I was heading along a country highway at about 110 km/hr and the car ahead of me singled a left turn into an intersection. Visibility was good, and I looked to see if there was anything in his way. His way was clear, so I expected him to smoothly turn left out of my way. Instead, he slammed on his brakes and came to a full stop right in front of me. I'd forgotten to look to the right at the oncomming traffic where there was a car waiting to turn right. I missed rear ending him, but not be much.

[zardell]

I was heading along a country highway at about 110 km/hr and the car ahead of me singled a left turn into an intersection. Visibility was good, and I looked to see if there was anything in his way. His way was clear, so I expected him to smoothly turn left out of my way. Instead, he slammed on his brakes and came to a full stop right in front of me. I'd forgotten to look to the right at the oncomming traffic where there was a car waiting to turn right. I missed rear ending him, but not be much.


Now, it's just this scenario that I can't get my head around..........shouldn't the car who was turning left into the side road in front of you have checked his rear view mirror and seeing that you were behind him and going straight ahead (therefor you were preventing any oncoming vehicles from turning to their right) continued with his left turn WITHOUT stopping for the oncoming traffic ??

The reason I ask this is because a similar situation happened to me, but I was the one who was turning left, so I stopped for the oncoming car who was turning to his right. The guy behind me (who I admit, I had TOTALLY forgotten about) swerved past me and nearly rammed into the side of the oncoming car that had started his right turn manoeuvre !

I'm presuming I was in the wrong 'cos the guy that overtook me waved as he went past - using only one or two of the fingers on his left hand........:o

Julie

xx

[Moorf]

Yikes, Moorf. That's a scary situation. In my opinion, you got caught by the key weakness of the right turn rule. Other than tourists getting confused, I think it could be argued that it doesn't matter who has the right of way as long as everyone understands the rule. Where that argument falls over is exactly the situation that you described. I've had a close call that way myself.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up better than I could! Every time I went to try and put it in writing I lost the plot!

If I have someone who isn't slowing down behind me and who is going straight on I usually make the left turn regardless of someone waiting as most seem to watch for oncoming traffic... I say "most".... :roll

[diforsyth]

It is possible to drive defensively in knowledge of the rule: -

1. If turning left, don't move over to the left allowing following cars to overtake.
2. If you see a waiting right turning car then start braking in plenty of time a and flash your lights to indicate your letting them go first.

[borea]

Now, it's just this scenario that I can't get my head around..........shouldn't the car who was turning left into the side road in front of you have checked his rear view mirror and seeing that you were behind him and going straight ahead (therefor you were preventing any oncoming vehicles from turning to their right) continued with his left turn WITHOUT stopping for the oncoming traffic ??

The reason I ask this is because a similar situation happened to me, but I was the one who was turning left, so I stopped for the oncoming car who was turning to his right. The guy behind me (who I admit, I had TOTALLY forgotten about) swerved past me and nearly rammed into the side of the oncoming car that had started his right turn manoeuvre !

I'm presuming I was in the wrong 'cos the guy that overtook me waved as he went past - using only one or two of the fingers on his left hand........:o

Julie

xx

The way I interpret the situation is this: The road code says that you have to give way to the car turning right. It isn't your responsibility to read his mind or the mind of the driver behind you. The driver behind you is obligated not to hit you. Ignore him, no matter how many fingers he's using to wave at you. If you turn and hit the other car, it's your fault. If you stop and get rear-ended, it's the other driver's fault. Only make the turn if you are 100% sure that the other car won't turn. If the driver behind you decides not to squeeze past, then the car in front will suddenly go and you might hit eachother. In my case, there wasn't enough room for me to get past, but often there is.

It's a dumb rule, but it's the law of the land. Don't get worried about inconveniencing the person behind you. You didn't inconvenience him, the lawmakers who keep this law on the books inconvenienced him.

[eternalkiwi]

Hi Zardell,

You were right to give way, and the vehicle behind you would be overtaking you. Hence if they attempt to overtake you without due care etc, they would be in the wrong in the event of an accident.

Though if they come up with a good story for the Police or know the police, it could always still go against you or another party.

[borea]

It is possible to drive defensively in knowledge of the rule: -

1. If turning left, don't move over to the left allowing following cars to overtake.
2. If you see a waiting right turning car then start braking in plenty of time a and flash your lights to indicate your letting them go first.

That is excellent advice, thank you. The road isn't always narrow enough to prevent people going around, but it often is. I've been moving off to the side and complicating the whole situation. Looks like that's the opposite of what I should be doing.

[zardell]

Hi Zardell,

You were right to give way, and the vehicle behind you would be overtaking you. Hence if they attempt to overtake you without due care etc, they would be in the wrong in the event of an accident.

Though if they come up with a good story for the Police or know the police, it could always still go against you or another party.


Hi Eternalkiwi.

Well, I must say that your first paragraph filled me with confidence in my own judgement.........:)

Your second paragraph kinda took it all away again...........:( :D



I am forced to agree with Borea when he says that it's a dumb rule, but the law of the land.

Interesting advice from Diforsyth too........may have to give that one a go, but I would be a little concerned about getting rear-ended........if the guy behind me is going to hit anyone, I have to say (selfishly I admit) that I would prefer it to be the other guy !!

Julie

xx

[Croft]

Of course we can then complicate the situation still further with 'Making a right turn from the left-hand side of the road', which I first came across in Spain (from the opposite side of course), but happens in NZ too, typically on busy single carriageways in country areas, as I discovered when turning into a relatives driveway who live just outside Christchurch.

If there are other vehicles moving fast or following too closely, or if the road is narrow, it may be best to wait on the left-hand side of the road to make the turn, rather than stopping in the middle of the road and holding up traffic.

In this situation:

* signal left for at least three seconds
* move across to the left-hand side of the road
* wait there until it is safe to turn
* signal right for at least three seconds before you turn
* move when it is safe.

If a vehicle in front of you has also stopped to turn right, it's best to wait behind them and then use the same position to turn from.

Take extra care on roads where traffic is moving quickly.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/right-turn-left-laned.jpg

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html

[speckythecky]

no just are just trying to add more confusion. I can only take one rule change at once.
Good pictures though

[borea]

Of course we can then complicate the situation still further with 'Making a right turn from the left-hand side of the road', which I first came across in Spain (from the opposite side of course), but happens in NZ too, typically on busy single carriageways in country areas, as I discovered when turning into a relatives driveway who live just outside Christchurch.



http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html

I was gobsmacked when I saw this in the road code for the first time. I think it's insane. I haven't seen anybody try it in the Auckland area.

[KerryS]

I was gobsmacked when I saw this in the road code for the first time. I think it's insane. I haven't seen anybody try it in the Auckland area.

They really only do this in rural areas, when you would hold up the traffic behind you if you were to stop and wait to turn right. It's just polite to move into the left and then make your right turn when the traffic is clear... Seems to work well in the countryside - I can't imagine it working in Auckland or any other urban area for that matter.

[sarahw]

Actually its called a hook turn & its more commonly used in Australia - in central Melbourne!!! - always go in left lane to make a right turn to avoid the trams! Gosh the useless information you pick up when backpacking as a youngster!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn

[Caroline and Dave]

I experienced my first turn right rule yesterday.
I had completely forgotten about it and was in UK driving mode and signalled to turn right which mean't I had right of way over someone turning left. A Lady was turning left and just stopped waiting for me.My initial reaction was to wonder what was wrong with me until she smiled at me and ushered me across.It was then I realised I had the right of way.Still a barmy idea though.



Dave and Caroline

[Oliver]

This rule is giving me terrible headaches. It doesn't come naturally to me, and I have to concentrate whilst driving to get it right. I keep on forgetting the rule. I don't think that the locals are very impressed with my driving ...

[zardell]

This rule is giving me terrible headaches. It doesn't come naturally to me, and I have to concentrate whilst driving to get it right. I keep on forgetting the rule. I don't think that the locals are very impressed with my driving ...



You're not alone Oliver.

Although, having said that, a lot of the locals in our area are just as bad as I am and they seem to be forgetting the rule too.

It's a damn dangerous and silly rule if you ask me, but nobody did ask me so I'm gone....... :exit

Julie

xx

[jen]

This rule is giving me terrible headaches. It doesn't come naturally to me, and I have to concentrate whilst driving to get it right. I keep on forgetting the rule. I don't think that the locals are very impressed with my driving ...

I'm finally remembering it now - I just still have a terrible time actually taking the right of way when it's my turn to go under that rule as all my driving instincts say I'm going to get hit by the opposing driver.

I haven't found wellington drivers to be any worse than southern california ones (there's a backhanded compliment!).

[Oliver]

You're not alone Oliver.

Although, having said that, a lot of the locals in our area are just as bad as I am and they seem to be forgetting the rule too.

It's a damn dangerous and silly rule if you ask me, but nobody did ask me so I'm gone....... :exit

Julie

xx

Hi Julie,
I also think that it's a silly rule, but apparently the reasoning behind the rule is that it makes traffic flow and prevents backups. Go figure!
Oliver

[The Hodges]

Since I've been driving here, I have never meet anyone else on the road, who has given way when turning right and I've been waiting to turn right, a la
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn.jpg
or even out of a car park etc. :
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn2.jpg

Has anyone else? :(

[zardell]

Since I've been driving here, I have never meet anyone else on the road, who has given way when turning right and I've been waiting to turn right, a la
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn.jpg
or even out of a car park etc. :
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn2.jpg

Has anyone else? :(


That's because you would only give way to your right if you were turning left into a side road (from a major road) and the oncoming traffic (on that same major road) were turning to their right into the same side road.

Make sense ?? No I don't think it does either, but that's the law apparently.

Julie

xx

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

I have given way to those coming out a la the previous diagrams, however I have yet to find anyone giving way to me when I'm coming out of a car park/juntion in the same situation.

Having said that I would probably have given way often in the UK simply out of common courtesy, as opposed to legality.

I guess that says a lot about how much sense this rule makes in reality.

[Mal]

Since I've been driving here, I have never meet anyone else on the road, who has given way when turning right and I've been waiting to turn right, a la
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn.jpg
or even out of a car park etc. :
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/turn-right-giveway-r-turn2.jpg

Has anyone else? :(

You are right, no-one seems to obey this rule ... except when I am cycling. For some reason some people (but not everyone) seem inclined to let me out on my bike in this situation, although I think it's courtesy rather than the road code thats the driving force.

[swissmissdesigner]

I promise, I will let you out if I see you on the road. LOL!
I have a big respect for bikers although I prefer the car!