[sarahw]

About 2 months ago we decided to change our toilet, bathroom and shower room (plus steal my daughter's wardrobe whilst she's too young to argue!) into one big bathroom (no structural changes involved just stud walling that's not supporting anything). In the UK we'd have just got people in to quote and have done the work providing there was no structural change. However, here we've had to apply for Building Consent.

I thought I'd just put a bit about what we went through to get it for those of you who are contemplating renovations that require consent but who aren't sure what's involved.

First we had to get CAD drawings done - we had a draughtsman in Welly do them, but you could use an architect or our council told me if you were doing a kitchen or bathroom renovation (i.e. changing layout) then you could submit a CAD drawing supplied by the shop doing it.

That process took about 3 weeks and we had a really good experience - the drawings seem to have covered everything we needed.

We then had to go to Land Registry & get an up-to-date copy of title for the property - I think it was about $2.

We then filled in a couple of council forms for building consent and submitted them with the specification (drawn up by the draughtsman), the plans, the title and a deposit of $300 to apply for consent.

Its supposed to be 20 working days to get consent, however, I had been warned by the draughtsman that some councils (not the one we're under) send a letter the day before consent is due asking for more info, thus granting themselves another 20 working days to agree to consent - this can go on for a while. Luckily our council is pretty efficient & we got consent yesterday just 18 working days after we applied and we had to pay a couple hundred more dollars.

To me it was a bit of a confusing process and the forms had all sorts of questions on them, but don't be put off by this & pay an architect to obtain consent for you (unless you are doing a huge renovation or new build) since it wasn't that hard to do.

We have to have 6 things inspected during our renovation and a final inspection (and submit certificates from the workmen to prove the work has been done according to building regs/council minimum requirements), which may hold it up a little - I don't know how quickly the council will come out to do inspections when we let them know something is ready...

Anyway all systems go & I'm looking forward to the project actually starting next week.

Hope this thread is helpful to someone.

[Jameelka]

Thanks Sarah, that was really useful for us.
We are planning an extension on the back of our house for another 3 bedrooms, with the girls sharing an en-suite (both their bedroom doors going into the en-suite) can't remember the correct name for it!
Had the builder out and he is getting the drawings done fo us now, so we are in the very early stages as yet.
Good luck with the improvements!

[jen]

Thanks for the info - I had no idea you would have to go through all that for an interior home change. Now I'll be even more dubious when we go to open homes and the realtor starts telling us how easily we could open up rooms and add half-baths or whatever . . .

[sarahw]

Yep - you even need a consent to get a wood burning stove fitted or to change the size of windows on your house - good little money spinner for the architects & councils though!!

[Super_BQ]

These new regulations came about from all the shoddy homes built in NZ over the past 10 years. Using new concepts & ideas? which never really worked. My uncle blames its on the 'cheap Canadian plaster built homes' in Canada. Though no matter how many times I re-iterate, the plaster over styrofoam exterior construction was never a design from Canada. I'll have to say next time to my uncle brings this up, i'll mention how foolish NZ was to fall for the same mistake Canada did on their "leaky-condos" 15 years ago.

By the time NZ discovered these leaky homes, the mistake was compounded even more by the ban use of treated timber while other nations like Canada insisted some parts of the house had to use treated timber. Nevertheless, the exterior construction of NZ homes are entirely different in Canada - no one builds 2 x 6 framing with dual vapor barrier lines on both sides here.

Anyways, prior to recent revamp of the NZ building industry, anyone was able to build and renovate their homes. With the absense of any apprenticeship program in NZ for many decades, people saw overnight electricians and plumbers and etc. It was a move that the NZ gov't did in order to fast track new homes to be built way back in the 70s.

Now we have a situation where the gov't wants EVERYTHING to be examined - over-regulation. Tradesmen had to be re-qualified by taking more courses. End result is the price of houses will be at the cost of the buyer.

Only if NZ was smart enough to learn from what other countries have experienced rather than trying to re-invent the wheel, things (not only houses) would still be as competitive and more affordable...

BQ

[neilw71]

I think your need to get consent was mainly due to moving the toilet (but I could be wrong :) )

We are in the middle of remodelling our bathroom and as the toilet is not moving positiom, no consent is needed. We have gutted, replumbed, re-gibbed, tiled, rewired the room and fitted new vanity etc.

Always best to check with your local council though!

Neil

[Rizak]

It may seem like a chore, but these new council regulations are in effect to protect you. Canadian regulations insist that a building permit must be obtained for any change in structure, electrical or plumbing. Lots of people try to go around this and then complain when things go wrong. If the contractor cannot go ahead with the next step before the inspection is completed, he feels like his time is being wasted, so he'll probably tell the client that they don't need a permit. However, you don't have an impartial voice in the building process either and are dependent on your builder.

I much prefer having a second opinion with the power to say, "Tear it all down and do it right!"

[sarahw]

Nope nothing to do with the toilet - that's staying exactly where it is. We had to get consent because we were moving other plumbing features, taking out internal walls & relocating doors & because we're having a wet area - the membranes used in wet areas have to be council approved & checked.

Checks they want to do is on the sub floor work, building work before the gib is put on, plumbing work (again before gibbing) windows & membranes & a final check.

I've heard of lots of people getting work done without permits as Rizak says, & agree that's asking for trouble later along the line - especially if we try to sell the house & can't provide documentation to say that it was all checked & certified (which would be the first thing I'd be looking for as a buyer).

[Park City Partner]

I think the term you are looking for is a Jack and Jill bathroom...or I think that is what they call them in the States at least...

[Super_BQ]

A bit of history. NZ use to have an apprentice system much like any other developed nation did in the past. However it was the Labour Gov't that decided to sack all the apprenticeship programs back in the 70s in order to keep up with the demand. Yes indeed state houses today are still as solid built now as back then. However, the problem arised with the use of unproven new building techniques in NZ (or in the case of the leaky houses, they were also a flop in Canada) But what does any other country have to say to NZ for a country that is known to try and "re-invent the wheel"? If other countries had the same problems with leaky homes and builders in NZ were foolish enough to adopt and follow the exact same mistakes... then perhaps NZ is only to blame.

If the apprentice program continued in NZ, it would at least educate apprentices of the pitfalls in building and how to properly install flashings around the windows and roofs on plastered (over styrofoam exteriors?). But with a BIG maybe because during the time of leaky homes, a ban of treated timber was in affect. Would the house of rotted with or without use of treated timber?

Anyways, it was the Labour Gov't that removed the apprentice program and now they're re-instating it back in.

How about attitude? My aunt one day bought some mayonaise by the brand Eta (A NZ company). On the label it said "American Mayonaise". When she looked at the label she saw "Made in America" and she immediately exclaimed "CHEAT!" I was confused, but I think her reasoning is that real American style Mayonaise should be made in NZ by Kiwis.... Tell me this does not make sense? Or are only good Swiss watches made in China?

BQ

[Rizak]

Well ... according to my email, all the good Rolexes are.

;)

[sarahw]

We've had our first council inspection (we have to have 3 for our project) and it went well - everything got passed OK - next inspection in a week - still got 3 weeks of mess & mayhem on the project but the bare bones of the room are there now. We have had an excellent builder and an excellent architect so if anyone doing renovations in the Welly area feel free to PM me & I'll send you their details.

[Tia Maria]

First time I've read this thread, its very helpful. (Got the old Rep problem, have to share it about blah blah blah :laugh )

Anyway we had our bathroom updated, everything pretty much in the same place. We were told we had to get the floor checked as we were putting down tiles on floorboards and it needed waterproofing inbetween.

We did do the waterproofing but didn't get it checked as everyone said it could take several days for them to come round and we could be without a workable bathroom for about a week. As it was the only one in the house, it wasn't really an option unless we were willing to book into a hotel.

Absolutely everyone told us not to bother getting it looked at. Partly because no one knows when the bathroom was put in and some of these laws are pretty recent. But also because we did do the right thing so could in all clear conscience let any future purchasers know this and just claim we didn't know about the council checking requirements.

I guess we'll find out if its a problem when we come to sell!

Cheers

Tia

[neilw71]

Here is the wording from the Act:

"
Schedule 1 s 41(1)(b)
Exempt building work

A building consent is not required for the following building work:

(a) any lawful repair and maintenance using comparable materials, or
replacement with a comparable component or assembly in the same position, of
any component or assembly incorporated or associated with a building, including
all lawful repair and maintenance of that nature that is carried out in
accordance with the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 1976:"

Ref: http://rangi.knowledge-basket.co.nz/gpacts/public/text/2004/an/072.html (Schedule 1 at the the end)

I read that as updating a bathroom doesn't need consent :) ( as long as you are not moving walls as stated :) )

Neil

[sarahw]

That's right - nor plumbing.

Our next check is the membrane - waterproof layer between flooring (compression board) & tiles - they're pretty hot on this but only because we've built in a wet area into the bathroom (and if they're not done right they can leak pretty badly so the council made it a stipulation as part of our consent).

I wouldn't worry Tia if you're just replacing a floor that's already there & it doesn't incorporate a wet area shower instead of a shower tray I don't think anyone will be bothered when you come to sell.

[Super_BQ]

But also because we did do the right thing so could in all clear conscience let any future purchasers know this and just claim we didn't know about the council checking requirements.

I guess we'll find out if its a problem when we come to sell!

There's kinda a fine line where the buyer agrees with the condition of the house or not. Recent cases in the 'leaky houses' have proved that the liability does not stop at buyer beware. Note though a leaky home is the far end of the extreme compared to a bathroom/shower alteration.

Legally, the buyer can sue the seller even though the alterations were dones by the 2nd previous owner's down the line. Some believe there's a 'statutory limitation' for litigation beyond 7+ years. However this no longer applies in the case of homes as the expectation life of a house is far more than 7 years - who would think a houses should be rotten in 7 year?

Interesting discoveries occur all the time in even the newest homes. For eg. one person builds a newly plaster over styrofoam constructed home and after a few years he/she discovers water in thier living room. What are the options for that owner? "Do I sue the builder? or Look at the city council for compensation? or Do I try to rectify the problem myself?

The new home owner could inform the city council or call certain building inspectors to do a full WOF on the house (to see the extend of the damage). But this may not be ideal as any complaints given to the council in this nature will leave a record on file. Likeswise with home WOF inspectors as any discoveries of major leaks will have to be lodge in at the city council. At the end this will show up on a Lim report which doesn't look good.

Alternatively, the seller could keep quiet and try to rectify the problem alone. Rip all the drywall off and try to seal and patch as much as he/she can to remove any traces of leaks. Even a complete strip down and re-plaster may be warranted. At least in the future, the seller could assume no previous leaks were known and successfully sell the house as a non-leaky home.... until it leaks after a few years later....

By then the original seller has taken off to Australia....

[sarahw]

Had the second inspection from the council this week... all went well, although I am a bit worried - I agreed with our contact that we could use a different dampproof membrane but I have nothing in writing or stamped. We've used the other one but when it comes to the final consent I hope it won't be a problem!

Got the tilers in now & the plumber & electrician finishing off next week and then we'll need to book our final council inspection with all of our certificates for membraning & electrics & windows etc. as well as new drainage plans & final application for consent. Will be surprised if they don't charge me more money for final consent!!

[sarahw]

OK bathroom almost finished - just got the electrician coming back tonight to fit the heated towel rail & we're waiting for the mirror... As soon as those things are done we can apply for the final consent. We have to submit all of the energy certificates from electrician, plus window certificates for new windows & warranty/letter from tiler for the waterproof membrane & a form for the final building consent - they will come & do a final inspection and then hopefully! we get building consent issued...

Here's a couple of pics - it has turned out better than we dreamed!

1st pic is before we started - 3 separate rooms - this was the bathroom. Imagine a mirror in front of the demister pad of the finished pics...

[sarahw]

OK & the shower...

[holland]

Wow, your new bathroon looks fab...I read through your message really quick and went to first pic, and was trying to think of something polite to say...until I re-read your message!! lol , looks like its been worth all of the inspections!!