[gil]

Hi all,
I know this has been mentioned before, but I was stunned today at the hairdressers when I asked if I could add on a tip for the wonderful girl who cut my hair. The receptionist gave me what I can only describe as a FILTHY look and said, disgustedly, "We don't do that here" ! She should have said "Madam" to give it a veneer of politeness, but she was genuinely shocked and unimpressed, she just spat it out!!

Still I have tried 3 hair salons now, and this is the best: Rodney Wayne (great hairdresser name!) at Botany, stylist Shireen. I have booked to go back in six weeks, I'm that pleased.

http://www.rodneywayne.co.nz/

Gil

[Moorf]

Another Rodney Wayne fan here - Alana at the Riccarton Mall salon in Chch is well-known throughout the city but worth it - book early.

[Park City Partner]

I am going through serious trauma as I will visiting a new person on Friday. I have been seeing the same guy for 20 years....seriously. Doesn't matter where I live I always go back. I saw him in Nov. (he is in LA) but won't be back again until May and just can't waity until then....fingers crossed for Friday....

[gil]

I am going through serious trauma as I will visiting a new person on Friday. I have been seeing the same guy for 20 years....seriously. Doesn't matter where I live I always go back. I saw him in Nov. (he is in LA) but won't be back again until May and just can't waity until then....fingers crossed for Friday....

Ooh, fingers crossed for you, I know how traumatic it is, having found new hairdressers in Cardiff, London, Paris, Milan and now AKL!!

Gil

[jubjub]

Good Luck, I hate finding new hairdressers, for me its worse than the dentists. but i have one now, took over a year, so I am now a happy bunny.

[CjChris]

...the thing that worries me the most is being able to find my hair coloring brand. I use ARTec, but I have a feeling in NZ I'll have to switch to something else.

My colorist here in the US does a superb job; for five years now, she has managed to convincingly maintain my red hair to such an extent that no one has a clue my hair is 90% gray! I look young for 41, so it wouldn't occur to people that my auburn-tinted hair is anything but natural. She concocted a potion of three colors to get my hue.

I am not looking forward to going through the trial and error phase of matching it up!!! :wah I wish I could buy a case of my color to bring along, but as I understand it, one must have a license to purchase salon color products?

[jubjub]

Get them to write down your colour mix, the colours are numbered very similarly across brands (so my UK hairdresser told me) so they should be able to get something similar.... but its a frightening prospect having to start again (any men reading this will claim we are nuts, but they dont understand!!!!!)

[Park City Partner]

have you asked your licensed colorist if she will get it for you?

[CjChris]

Thanks for your replies (and sorry, Gil, for hijacking your thread!). My colorist can get the color for me while I'm still here in the US, and I may be able to get a few extra boxes to take to NZ. The problem is she works for someone who monitors what she does; she can only get away with getting me so much color at a time (I wanted to start stocking up NOW, but so far she has only been able to sell me two tubes of each of the three colors I use for my "extra stock." I have very long, thick hair, so it doesn't go so far!).

The other problem is that my salon is going to change brands (Paul Mitchell) right around the time we move in September, so they are going to let their stock run down in the weeks before we leave!

I need to see if my colorist can hook me up with another colorist here who uses that brand and maybe they will let me buy in bulk. I wonder what the shelf life is?

[Howie]

Still I have tried 3 hair salons now, and this is the best: Rodney Wayne (great hairdresser name!) at Botany, stylist Shireen. I have booked to go back in six weeks, I'm that pleased.


May I ask how much? I'm looking for someone and Botany is close by.

[SarahEDH]

Just a note on tipping, my experience of it was different so it may depend on the industry. A cab driver and shuttle driver were both very gracious and accepted the tips with good cheer. I got into Wellington at midnight (from the US via Sydney) with three huge suitcases and two carryon bags to schlep around by myself. My shuttle driver was on time, took over the bag situation, found my tiny bach rental hidden way up on winding Korokoro Rd, maneuvered his large van up what looked like a goat track and dropped me at my front door with the bags. I thought his service was such that I really had to offer, even if he turned me down. He didn't seem embarrassed or annoyed, he just grinned, thanked me and waved goodbye. Same thing with a cab driver (from Northumberland -- wonderful accent) who said "please know that tipping is NOT expected -- don't ever feel you have to do it, but it is appreciated." So I think it varies --

[gil]

May I ask how much? I'm looking for someone and Botany is close by.
It was $59 and well worth it. Also, Just Cuts is across the lane and is $22, but you can't book and can't choose the hairdresser, they operate a queuing system. The cut was OK there.

Gil

[Super_BQ]

I have no complaints about tipping. Quite often going to many fine dining restaurants in NZ i've found that the service isn't comparable to say in America. The typical NZ restaurant can't afford to have a dedicated staff person to greet the customers at the door and assign to them where they can sit. If the cook is slow at getting the dishes out or the bathroom isn't clean or the customer has no way to give feedback if the steak was under or over cooked... i'm afraid, that is all part of the experience (service + the goods). I can only see that a tipping system does help. BTW, most people working in these types of jobs are paid at mere minimum wages or trying to supplement their uni education. Note that tipping at places like McDonalds, KFC, etc need not apply as one can't get a better experience if they tipped ; fast food is already a highly competitive market and it's not likely 1 chain restaurant would have better service than another.

BQ

[gil]

Actually, we did tip a waitress at a local restaurant recently because she was so helpful, lovely attitude and manner and that was fine by us, her and the manager. :)

Gil

[sarahw]

My hubby tipped his hairdresser (quite handsomely I might add!) on his first visit. The hairdresser was extremely taken back - I did have a chuckle afterwards when I explained to OH that tipping wasn't the norm here since he's quite tight with his money!! However, the hairdresser has always remembered him & given him great service since. I never tip my hairdresser - was sooooo lucky she was the daughter of the fella re rented off when we first arrived - I was desperate for a haircut & she matched my hair colour perfectly - plus half the price of Rodney Wayne in Welly :o))) however, I do buy small gifts or bake stuff for her - that always goes down well.

We rarely tip - only if a meal has been absolutely amazing in a restaurant - if we get good service as we would normally expect (which is almost always) then we don't tip. Heck - I'd really better make sure we don't go on hols to the US now - I'm so used to not tipping I'd probably offend so many people!

[Park City Partner]

Well, I had my haircut today and all is well. I like the stylist quite a bit. He took a fair amount of time talking to me about what he thought and what I wanted. He gave me a good cut. Whew! Now I feel even more committed to NZ....

[stu70]

So the deal is you do not tip any one in NZ no matter what services or goods they provide? Here we even tip the guy who pumps the gas at full service gas station. It sure will be hard for North American immigrants to not tip; 15% is almost standard here on restaurants (even if service is so so) and the wonderful English girl (Liz Hurley lookalike) who cuts my hair gets 30% just coz she is oh so nice. :D

[KerryS]

So the deal is you do not tip any one in NZ no matter what services or goods they provide? Here we even tip the guy who pumps the gas at full service gas station. It sure will be hard for North American immigrants to not tip; 15% is almost standard here on restaurants (even if service is so so) and the wonderful English girl (Liz Hurley lookalike) who cuts my hair gets 30% just coz she is oh so nice. :D

I think it's up to the individual - I still tip for good service, whether that be in a restaurant, a taxi or a hairdressers or beauty salon. I think it's nice to know that efforts are appreciated and a small tip can show this - and in the case of a hairdresser or beautician (and even waitresses) ensure you get good service again.

I think what should be emphasised is that tipping is not part of the culture here and isn't obigatory as it is in North America. People don't have to rely on tips to make up their wages - although as the Sainsbury's ads say, Every Little Helps...

[jubjub]

We sometimes tip if the wait staff have been really nice when we eat out, and I did take my hairdresser choccies at xmas... but thats about it.

There was an article on close up ages ago about tipping and whether it was becoming more expected here, cant find a link to it though, must be too old.. I think it reported that the worst tippers were tourists as it was publicised in travel guides that "in NZ they dont expect tips" so they dont even think about it, whereas locals were more likely to tip where service over the norm was given, although still not in huge numbers.

From http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/607597


AUSTRALIA and NEW ZEALAND: Tipping and service charges are virtually unheard of in New Zealand, according to Travelocity, and in Australia, tips of about 10% "are expected only in the finest restaurants."

[Super_BQ]

What recourse does a person have if they experience such horrible service at a fine restaurant in NZ? Regardless of a set pay, the waiter or waitress only has to do the minimum. (and the employer can't do a thing about increasing their performance ; unfortunately higher pay by the boss isn't the answer). Actually there's no way a customer can tell if that person serving them will do a good job. Why would they as there isn't any incentive to do more. This is typical in gov't orgnaisations too.

When I studied a course called Labour Economics at Uni, it was interesting to hear the term "Inside Theory". That is among a group of employees, no individual worker wants to out perform another co-worker to the point that it makes other workers look green. The notion that the employer would see how well 1 person works over others and will get a sense of real value for the wage pay over other workers. Of course the other employees will not think favorably of this so they collectively work together to make things difficult for that 1 outstanding worker. We call it "constructive dismissal".

If a tipping policy was implemented, none of these issues would occur as the harder working employee will be rewarded. Of course if the worker is a total dick then constructive dismissal should be warranted :nice1

BQ

[Sam B]

I love it that I don't have to tip anymore, I always found tipping a bit of a nightmare, not because I'm tight, but because I'm not very confident at giving people money for services. Restaurants were ok - just leave it on the table, but nightmare at hairdressers and even more so in hotels - I would often lug my own suitcases rather than have to work out how to tip the porter! I would much rather service charges are just included in the costs.

[Oregonkiwi]

I agree with Sam, I was very glad to leave tipping behind as I just never really got the hang of it and was always worried it was the wrong amount...and I'd much rather know that restaurant staff are paid decently and aren't relying on tips to bring their earnings above minimum wage



What recourse does a person have if they experience such horrible service at a fine restaurant in NZ? Regardless of a set pay, the waiter or waitress only has to do the minimum. (and the employer can't do a thing about increasing their performance ; unfortunately higher pay by the boss isn't the answer). Actually there's no way a customer can tell if that person serving them will do a good job. Why would they as there isn't any incentive to do more.

This is just nonsense. I've had plenty of poor service in US restaurants and plenty of great service in NZ. Do you really think that all waiters only "do the minumum" unless they get tipped? What about all the other jobs that don't earn tips? Do you really believe that people only work hard and find satisfaction in doing a job well if there is an immediate financial reward for doing so?:roll

[Trigirl]

as i see it either you can have the nz way where you don't tip as a rule but have the option to if you receive good service or the american (and increasingly uk) way where tipping is required and you can withhold that tip if you receive rubbish service. tipping staff should be a reward for good service and i believe that tipping as a habit rather than a reward helps perpetuate mediocre service.

by the way whether someone is paid a tip or not in NZ they cannot be employed for less than the legal minimum wage. in america employers are actually allowed to pay staff less than the minimum wage if they receive tips. federal law says if you are not an employee that receives tips you must be paid $5.15 an hour. if you receive tips the minimum is only $2.13 an hour. if you don't get tipped the difference then the employer has to make it up. so in america tipping isn't rewarding good service - its simply relieving employers of any duty to pay a decent wage.

[Oregonkiwi]

so in america tipping isn't rewarding good service - its simply relieving employers of any duty to pay a decent wage.

Exactly.

[jubjub]

I've had plenty of poor service in US restaurants and plenty of great service in NZ.

Good point, I have cant think of one example of bad service in a NZ restaurant, and only one example in a NZ beauty salon (did not go back) since we got here, whereas in the UK there were a few... (and they looked at your snotty if you did not tip :roll )

[Howie]

I love it that I don't have to tip anymore, I always found tipping a bit of a nightmare, not because I'm tight, but because I'm not very confident at giving people money for services. Restaurants were ok - just leave it on the table, but nightmare at hairdressers and even more so in hotels - I would often lug my own suitcases rather than have to work out how to tip the porter! I would much rather service charges are just included in the costs.

I thought I was the only person in the world with this problem. I'm glad to know there are two of us :yes

[Rizak]

"I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job."
Steve Buscemi as Mr. Pink, Reservoir Dogs

"It's not tipping I believe in. It's overtipping."
Steve Martin as Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli, My Blue Heaven

Take your pick. :laugh

[Carol]

I do buy small gifts or bake stuff for her - that always goes down well.
!


That's a great idea!
I might bake a tray of muffins for their morning tea next time I go......

I love not having to tip.
Not because I'm tight - it's just always so awkward as to what to give.
And I really really HATE tipping being expected.

[Carol]

Same thing with a cab driver (from Northumberland -- wonderful accent) who said "please know that tipping is NOT expected -- don't ever feel you have to do it, but it is appreciated." So I think it varies --


I know him!

Us Northumberland folks do tend to flock together.......
;)

[susanlin]

Hi

I used to have Alana cut my hair but no more. She made a big mess of it 3 months ago and I'm still trying to grow out the damage. I've changed to a much better hairdresser - one who isn't so 'scissor happy'!

[Super_BQ]

Rizak! I must say we have similar tastes in movies. Who else could we label Steve Buscemi as "The funny looking guy" - FARGO

OregonKiwi

This is just nonsense. I've had plenty of poor service in US restaurants and plenty of great service in NZ. Do you really think that all waiters only "do the minumum" unless they get tipped?

You think the concept that people in restaurants can't earn more income by providing better services is nonsense? In the case if you do get poor service, then don't tip - it's as simple as that and there's no law that says you have to tip in the USA?

You've still havn't answered the question, what do you do when you experience bad service? Go complain to the manager - perhaps the person working will get a few warnings before he/she gets replaced by an equivalent. The tips are not there to serve as a top-up on lower wages.

IMO, it's far better to have the "opportunity" to earn more from tips than a set fixed wage pay. But that's not my point. If everyone just "did their job" in the restuarant, then how does the employer know which staff is suitable for promotion? Certainly the one that does more is going to have a better understanding of the restaurant (or any business for that matter regardless if they get tips or not).

BQ

[Super_BQ]

There's another approach that hasn't been discussed about the lack of tipping.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Feb07/RN.tipping.bills.sl.html

The article sums up that customers don't take account of 'tips' in the overall total of the restaurant bill.

So if there's no tipping in NZ, then perhaps you will find that restaurants will incorporate the extra service charge into the menu pricing (or at least so they can pay a good fixed wage for the restaurant employee).

Call it a double edge sword when you pay the higher menu pricing along with poor service.

BQ

[NoelMC]

I found that the service I received in NZ well exceeded the service I get in the UK, and knocks the service (if you can call it that) in the USA into a cocked hat.
I personally find the habit of tipping demeaning to the staff involved.
I expect the employers to pay an acceptable living wage.

People have mentioned that tipping helps you receive a better service, if thats the case should I tip my bank manager, solicitor or my accountant?
No, tipping a professional advisor is seen as very bad form. It could even be construed as bribery.
Its only the guys at the bottom rung of the ladder that need tips, therefore PAY THEM A BETTER WAGE.
I would suggest (by personal experience only) that the better the wages and the social provisions in a country the less people have to recourse to tipping.

[Malay-Coopers]

Heck - I'd really better make sure we don't go on hols to the US now - I'm so used to not tipping I'd probably offend so many people!

When visiting NZ I could not convince my mother-in-law (from the US) not to tip - she said she felt guilty. I tried to explain to her that service employees in the NZ got paid a better wage than US so the tip wasn't necessary. We compromised and she always left a 10% tip.

[stu70]

When visiting NZ I could not convince my mother-in-law (from the US) not to tip - she said she felt guilty. I tried to explain to her that service employees in the NZ got paid a better wage than US so the tip wasn't necessary. We compromised and she always left a 10% tip.

I do not blame her. As a North American, I would tip too unless they say NO to my face. Even then they will atleast know I did tip out of honour for their service. As to why we do not tip a lawyer - are you kidding me? At 350/hr for mediocrity, I think I "tip" them quite handsomely, thank you very much.

[negirl]

As a Brit who lived in the States for 17 yrs, it's like a breath of fresh air not having to or being expected to tip everyone & his brother over here. My American hubby felt a little guilty at first but now he likes it this way. If you're going to get good service you'll get it with or without the need to tip. I hated the way even in one of those buffet type places in the States you were expected to tip, though the only service was to drop a couple of plates in front of you.

[Howie]

I had my hair cut by Shireen on Saturday. She did a lovely job and I think I'll see her again next time so thanks for the recommendation.

[vixxann]

Just a side note - we were in NZ over Easter and ate out a fair bit - on Good Friday and Easter Monday there was (in most places)a 15% service charge added to total of bill for public holidays. This was clearly stated on menus etc and I think fair enough - if you didn't want to pay it then you could have chosen not to eat out. But I presume it went to pay staff extra for working on a bank holiday.

[Trigirl]

under the holidays act staff get time and a half + a day in lieu for working on a public holiday - thats why the restaurants charge extra. so yes - in effect it goes to the staff.

[incredible hulse]

Just a side note - we were in NZ over Easter and ate out a fair bit - on Good Friday and Easter Monday there was (in most places)a 15% service charge added to total of bill for public holidays. This was clearly stated on menus etc and I think fair enough - if you didn't want to pay it then you could have chosen not to eat out. But I presume it went to pay staff extra for working on a bank holiday.

Must say I never eat out on public holidays as I don't agree with the tax. If the NZ business isn't smart enough to factor that into it's business plan that's their problem. As a worker I've always been paid double time/time and a half elsewhere which was an absorbed cost so not sure of the justification myself