[aliceinwonderland]

Hi,
my husband's been offered a job in Auckland on a salary of $100K, which I do realise is a very good salary by NZ standards, so I feel sort of awkward asking questions about affordability. We don't have much capital to bring with us (maybe $120K at most) and we need to live in a zone for a school that offers IGCSEs and International A levels (for the next 8 years) . The only zone it looks like we could buy in would be Westlake and that would be a smaller house/garden than we have now.
Our two children (12 and 10) are highly resistant to the idea of moving and, although by UK standards, our lifestyle isn't particularly extravagant, we are worried that the effect of having an enormous mortgage and less disposable income will merely confirm their beliefs that NZ is not for them. We're not talking about extravagant foreign holidays twice a year, but about ballet and music lessons, cinema maybe once a month, and having the money to travel round the country and camp. We also need to be able to travel back to the UK sometimes as our parents' health is such that they will be unable to visit us.
So we're thinking about renting, although we are worried that this may mean we never buy a house again.

Is there any website where we can find out how much houses actually sold for at auction (for free - I've found various sites where you have to pay).
Do many people find that renting long-term is easy? Or do you end up having to move every year or two?

And if we do rent and have more disposable income will the children stick out from their NZ friends as having more money to spend?

How have other people with similary aged children found that the kids have coped with having to live more frugally than in the UK? If the kids were excited about going then I wouldn't be so concerned.

[pinkpiggy]

Hi

I'm sorry I can't answer your questions (I'm still in the UK) but just wanted to welcome you to the forum. I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can shed some light on your questions.

[tigerlily]

Hi Alice, welcome.

My impressions are that Auckland is a very expensive place, and that your fears are probably justified. Though I'm sure you could adjust and thrive in the end.

Did this job just come out of the blue or where you interested in living in NZ? It's a very hard transition to move countries, and to do it for a job offer (not for personal reasons) sounds like a lot to go through. People here have done it, loved it though.
I guess the question is do you really want to go? Because if you do, you could make it work somehow.

Is the company paying for your move/ airfare for the family? Those are both fairly dear.

[gil]

Hi aliceinwonderland and welcome to the forum.
We are in Easterm Beach, the Macleans zone where our 16 year old daughter is doing IGCSE. Our other 2 (11 and 9)are in Bucklands Beach Intermediate and Pigeon Mountain Primary, both also excellent schools but all three are decile 10 rated which means hefty parental contributions (see http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?p=119291#post119291)

$100K is a good salary here, check out other benefits to the package connected to where it is based (e.g. paid parking if you're in CBD).

Rentals here, in this school zone, are higher than adjacent areas. Here you won't find much below $500 per week. Ours is $625 per week for a three/four bed, unfurnished with a year's let. The people here before us had renewed their lease twice, so been here 3 years.

Music lessons can be costly: our son's guitar lessons are $200 per term and a friend pays $400 per term for piano lessons for her daughter.
On the other hand, our local swimming pool is free. (Swings and roundabouts!)

And if we do rent and have more disposable income will the children stick out from their NZ friends as having more money to spend?

I doubt it very much, it doesn't seem to be an issue here at all. People are more interested in who you are, noty what you have/don't have, which is a refreshing change from UK.

Hope that helps, feel free to ask more,

Gil

[aliceinwonderland]

Hi Alice, welcome.

Did this job just come out of the blue or where you interested in living in NZ? It's a very hard transition to move countries, and to do it for a job offer (not for personal reasons) sounds like a lot to go through.

He was invited to appply for the job by someone he'd met at a conference. We weren't particularly looking to move but had always felt that if we moved to any other country it would be NZ. The company would pay for our airfares and for a 20 foot container, so that would be taken care of.
We were attracted to New Zealand by the beautiful scenery, the outdoor activities and the fact that it's less crowded than the UK. We also felt that it would be a less pressurised/commercial environment to bring up kids.

Our older child is adamant that he wants to go back to the UK for university and we can understand that - hence why we want to be in zone for IGCSEs etc.

If it were just the two of us then we wouldn't hesitate - we'd seize the moment, could buy a house anywhere and could live very economically. The question we're struggling with is whether it is right to move our children half way round the world when they really don't want to go and it looks like they would have to give up some of the things they do now, and certainly wouldn't be able to do the other things they would want to do in NZ (the way they are managing to cope with the idea of a move is by finding things to look forward to, and so far they've come up with the idea of skiing, horseriding and canoeing in the Abel Tasman area.)

It sounds as though music lessons and ballet lessons actually cost just as much (or more, because music lessons in state schools are subsidised here) in NZ than in the UK.

I guess we're probably talking ourselves out of it until the children are at university. If we're not all totally committed then I don't think it will work. This forum has been incredibly helpful (I've been lurking since we first heard about the interview) in letting us get a realistic view of life and costs and not just a rose-tinted one.

[gil]

The music lessons I referred to are all private ones, aliceinwonderland. My kids were also all adamant that they would return to UK for university. Our 18 year-old has done just that. Our 16 year old is slowly changing her views on subject choice for university and also location, so I wouldn't be surpirsed if she does go to uni here in the end. Our 11 year old was talking about Auckland University of Technology earlier in the week, so I think he and our youngest will stay here for uni.

They are so young, they don't know yet what they wil feel like at 17/18, and I think that applies to yours too. If you are moving at their current ages, they will settle well, but 15 and 18 (as our older two were when we came over) is a lot harder. Not trying to change your mind or influence your thinking, but it strikes me that with a job offer and children of suitable ages, this is a great opportunity for you as a family.

Keep us posted,

Gil

[Milliemoo]

Hi Alice,

As the others have said, I think your right to think very seriously about the affordability of moving to Auckland with very little capitol.

IMHO I really don't think you'd be able to afford a mortgage on a decent home in the area you're looking at, with one income of $100k. I think you could rent a nice place and live OK on that income though.

My husband is the main wage earner and I just work part time in a local bakery ($11 ph) but my wage more than pays the months food/wine shop and that makes a big difference. I guess what I'm saying is, are you prepared to work to help bring in a bit of extra cash each month?

Is the move worth it if your kids don't really want to go and you'll be living in a rental property for x amount of years?

Hope that doesn't sound too pesimistic.

Have you had a look at property on: www.realenz.co.nz ? It will give you an idea of what property costs in different areas and also rentals.

Milliemoo

[aliceinwonderland]

I have been spending a lot of the past fortnight browsing estate agents' websites. The house is a tip and the washing is piled up everywhere but I have a good knowledge of house prices in a place I've never visited!

My 12 year old was put up a year in primary school so he's in year 9 now (will be 13 in June) and would start GCSE work in September, so we suddenly realised that university is only 4 1/2 years away. He has his heart set on Oxford to do law ending up in politics (he is a child of very decided plans!). His argument is that although it was a New Zealander who split the atom, he didn't do it at a New Zealand University. But, as you say, a lot can change between now and 17 or 18.

If we rent and invest the capital we do have then we should be able to travel and come back to the UK occasionally, especially if hubbie can fit in a work trip at the same time. But the pension provision is less good (final salary scheme here still - VERY rare in the private sector) and I think we might feel nervous about having no property for our retirement. And even if we invest the capital and don't spend the interest, it won't keep pace with house price inflation and we'll be increasingly further away from buying a house. It seems to us that capital is much more important than the salary with interest rates being so high.

I'm certainly happy to work part-time. Over here I work on a casual basis, school hours, term-time only, so I'm very lucky. I did try working full-time when the children were younger but as a family we just found it too stressful with my husband's long hours and frequent business trips.

The decision over what to do now is a hard one and could still go either way. Our parents' health is another factor. But I think that we are realising that, even if we don't do it now, it's something we really want to do when the children leave school.

[Milliemoo]

Alice,

It sounds like you've put a great deal of thought into this (as you should) and I'm sure you'll make the right decision for your family.

I had to laugh at your son's response to NZ universities, you can't argue with him. He sounds very bright and it's great that he has goals that he wants to achieve. :nice1

Good luck with everything

Milliemoo

[Trigirl]

He has his heart set on Oxford to do law

If he is bright enough to get into Oxford to study law then there are few places in the world better to do it (and none of them are in NZ!)

Good luck to him.

[jubjub]

Have a look on here http://nz.helpsellmyproperty.net/
for an idea of sales in the area you want, not sure if you have come across www.wises.co.nz yet, but that will give you the street names for you to compare the property list to.

Your take home salary would be in the region of $5800 a month, so I guess you need to work out how much of that you could afford for a mortgage, we pay just over $1500 on a $200k mortgage, add whatever deposit you would put down and see what you could do from there. Either that or you would need to rent, but Like Gil says rents are likely to be high due to the school zone.

Your son sounds a very switched on little chap!

Good luck making your minds up..

[Angelonthemove]

I assume you own your own home with a mortgage. Have you concidered renting it out for a year. that way you have not made a complete comittement if all goes wrong. We came without being able to sell our house and very little cash. We are surviving on one salary for 6 months of around $100k per annum but no children, except OH. We live well have a huge car loan of $1500 per month. Rent of $2600 pm. Our house is rented out and gives us some cash to add to the pot each month.

You could even find out if the mortgage company would give you a holiday period of 12 months and not rent it out. We carried on renting our previous UK house out when we lived in Cyprus and paid the mortgage from the rent they were fine with it. Sold it 18 months later at a higher price.

It all depends what you really WANT to do

test toss a coin heads for go tails for not go.

result How did you feel with the result want to do best of 3 or happy with result. that should answer your question. Life is too short for what ifs.

My 19 yr old changed her mind and stayed in the UK, it hurt at first but then she could go off somewhere else abroad and leave me sitting in the UK regretting we never tried.

Good luck what ever you choose.

[Rabbit]

Sounds like you will be giving up a good pension, with a number of kids in tow with high educational expectations (expensive?).

Be careful you do not end up eating your UK property equity and ending up in poverty in old age without a decent pension.

Our joint income is probably about $300k pa - no kids, we are currently renting and still have our house back in the UK without a mortgage (rented out and pays for the rental costs here in NZ).

We have been bumped out of one rental into another and expect it to happen again soon, so we need to bite the 'buy' bullet soon (several thousand dollars to move from one rental to another).

This introduces the risks associated with an inflated dollar and property price bubble.

Even with our grandious saleries, I would say we have just started to cover the costs of moving here after a year (and also financial provision for moving back should we decide) with zero pension provision (a year lost).

Our flights and removal costs were paid for us, but one still needs to buy a car, rental deposits, electricity adapters, a fridge or washing machine, mail redirection, service connection charges etc etc.

There are lots of hidden costs associated with emigrating so a good contingency fund is essential.

[aliceinwonderland]

I think that at the moment we feel that we would be taking more opportunities away from the children than we would be offering. This is not the time for us. I think I probably already know that before I posted but maybe I was hoping for a swathe of replies saying that everything was actually more affordable.
We may well think about it again once the children leave school. All the information we've gathered from this forum (not just this thread) has helped us to feel that our decision is an informed one. Thanks everyone.

[stu70]

I think that at the moment we feel that we would be taking more opportunities away from the children than we would be offering. This is not the time for us. I think I probably already know that before I posted but maybe I was hoping for a swathe of replies saying that everything was actually more affordable.
We may well think about it again once the children leave school. All the information we've gathered from this forum (not just this thread) has helped us to feel that our decision is an informed one. Thanks everyone.

This forum truly is amazing. It gives you so much good information. I agree you have to factor in a lot of things prior to coming to a decision. It is more complex and time consuming to come to a conclusion if you have kids since a LOT more is riding on your decision. I wish you the best and hope you do well whereever you live. Regards