[Tia Maria]

Does anyone have an All Inclusive Electricity Plan?

Apparently it uses controlled power:


This is where your hot-water cylinder and some other appliances (usually night-store heaters) are wired up so that the company can turn them off at peak times. This is known as 'ripple control'. The company will often guarantee to supply power to your hot-water cylinder for a minimum number of hours a day (the fewer the hours, the cheaper the rate). Ripple control does not affect the power you use for cooking, lighting and plug-in appliances.

One of the companies says it switches off your hot-water cylinder for 5 hours. How does that work? Does that mean you don't have it for 5 hours in the night, or that it gets turned on and off throughout the day? Do you run out of hot water? :confused:

Also it says about wiring up the cylinder, is this a simple job and do you have to pay for it?

Cheers

Tia

[sizzlingbadger]

I would be skeptical. It's not something we would go for.

Watched Wasted this week and the woman went to the extreme of what they were asking. Dinners by candle light, no heating and switching her hot water cylinder off every night. The effect of turning on and off the cylinder actually led them to use more power because the water had to heat up every time it was turned back on.

[Tia Maria]

I saw that show as well, it did make me laugh when she admitted she wasn't making any of the changes because of the environment, but because of the cash! :laugh

I got the description from Consumer, they seemed to imply that this was a reasonably normal electricity pricing plan, similar to getting a meter to record night usage, for a day/night plan.

If you sign up for this kind of plan they charge you a lower daily rate and lower cents per kWh. So that's how you save money.

I just wondered if there were drawbacks to this, or whether I was missing a trick that every Kiwi already knew about!

Cheers

Tia

[KerryS]

Hey Tia - which companies are offering this? I'd be quite interested, but from a geeky work related point of view rather than actually taking it up...

[TFR]

Try Meridian, I think...

[Tia Maria]

Kerry S wrote:

Hey Tia - which companies are offering this? I'd be quite interested, but from a geeky work related point of view rather than actually taking it up...

Well if its in the pursuit of geekiness :D ..........

The three companies that came up as giving me a saving on my Contact Energy 'anytime' plan (a word they seem to use to mean a continual supply of power) are:

Mercury Energy - Standard All Inclusive
Meridian - Meridian Plus Economy 24
Energy Online - All Inclusive

The top 2 seem to be some kind of 'interrupted' power supply, not sure about the last one as the website was down when I last looked.

Cheers

Tia

[Moorf]

It was installed in our previous house here and worked just fine - except when we had people to stay one day, we ran out of hot water in the morning and there was no override so we couldn't reheat water until it was remotely turned back on at about 11pm that night! We never did find a way round it, but I can't believe that all systems don't allow you to heat on demand too!!

The signal to turn it on and off was, according to Prof.Woz here, done via the electrical connection... remotely.

[sarahw]

That sounds really interesting. I've never heard of it before.

We just had an Infinity boiler installed which heats water as you use it rather than you paying to constantly heat a tank of water - its supposed to save a heap of energy & give you hot water pressure as high as the cold water pressure you have (since its cold water being forced out at heat through the boiler). You could have 100 visitors & still have hot water - or if you go away on hols you haven't got to remember to switch the boiler off - you only pay for what comes through the tap - so far its been great.

[jaycee]

Sarah, is that the Rimnai one? Was it expensive? I've been looking at those, as my hot water pressure is abysmal and as a result I think the temperature is set too high. I've considered a pressure pump, but something like this might be a more efficient option - yes I do leave the cylinder on all the time, for the reasons Sizzlingbadger mentioned.

[sarahw]

Hi yes it is the Rinnai one - you can get internal & externally mounted ones - ours is outside next to the gas bottles & is only about the size of a briefcase on the wall - and yes we used to leave our hot water cylinder on all the time too before we got this (our water too was turned up too high too because of the low hot pressure).

[KerryS]

Well if its in the pursuit of geekiness :D ..........

The three companies that came up as giving me a saving on my Contact Energy 'anytime' plan (a word they seem to use to mean a continual supply of power) are:

Mercury Energy - Standard All Inclusive
Meridian - Meridian Plus Economy 24
Energy Online - All Inclusive

The top 2 seem to be some kind of 'interrupted' power supply, not sure about the last one as the website was down when I last looked.

Cheers

Tia

Ooops - I forgot to say thank-you for this. Quite interesting reading.

[Super_BQ]

One of the companies says it switches off your hot-water cylinder for 5 hours. How does that work? Does that mean you don't have it for 5 hours in the night, or that it gets turned on and off throughout the day? Do you run out of hot water?

You'll have power throughout the night time and off during the day. The plan we are on cuts off power at 8am and put it back on at 10pm at night. Whether the power networks have factored daylight savings - i've not found the answer. Yes, once you run out of hot water after say 8am, you're stuck waiting until late a night.

As mentioned before, this is known as 'ripple control' and is a requirement for electric hot water tanks wired this way. Remember, everything else should have power 24hr a day. Since hot water consumes the most amount of electricity, there can be times where NZ suffers from low power reserve and can allocate power to higher priority areas (for commercial use etc.) when needed. Locals know that during every winter season, the country seems to be starved of power due to say lack of rain or snow to fill the hydro damns. At the moment NZ relys on backup coal & diesel power generators when a power crisis occurs - not a cheap way of producing electricity IMO.

We're on a day/night rate plan with Meridian which we pay (roughly) 15cts/kw/Hr at night rate and 24cts/kW/hr during day rates. Orion power did the power hookup from the road to the house - 16Kva service line. The alternative plan with anytime power how power rates around 19cts/kW/hr. The savings isn't that considerable despite the huge difference in price between day & night rate. The reason is that most homes consume double the kW/hr usage during the daytime (cooking, morning showers, tvs & pcs, etc.) and not much is used throughout the night - except the hot water tank.

For older homes I don't think there's much benefit. The draw back is that you're paying for 2 meters which adds to the hardware installation. The hot water tank must have a separate earth lead that goes to the separate ripple meter. The line charge for this configuration is also higher compared to a single line charge on the anytime electrical plan. I should note that when I say night rate, this means that the power meter switches to a night rate which covers ALL power use in the house (not just the hot water tank). Then after say 8am, the night rate meter switches over to the day rate power meter (where you will be billed a higher rate) - hot water tank can be out of power and should never be billed on the higher day rate meter.

Where one would save is a home that uses solar hot water panels so that when the hot water power cuts off in the morning, you should have hot water throughout the daytime from the solar panels. Of course that would purely be dependant on the weather conditions and season. Program to have you dishwasher to start only after midnight. If you can live with the noise, you can have your washing machine going late at night so it's ready in the morning for hanging.

[Super_BQ]

We just had an Infinity boiler installed which heats water as you use it rather than you paying to constantly heat a tank of water - its supposed to save a heap of energy & give you hot water pressure

I have no real experience with the so called 'hot water on demand' systems. I would assume the LPG/rock gas would be far more effective than the all electricity units. Simple physics show that it's really not possible to get instant hot water on demand from electricity alone. The maximum continuous rated draw from a single phase 240V line is around 3 HP (around 10Amps) or 2.5KW.

An analogy would be, how long does it take for a 1000 watt microwave to heat a cup of water? At least a minute. Perhaps 30 seconds with a 2.5Kw microwave (if they exist?). We're talking 250ml of water here, not several litres required to have a hot shower. Also modern microwaves are at least 95% efficient.

I think it can be done with commercial 3 phase power service of around 8 or 10Kw/hr but, how many homes today are wired with 3 phase power? Such an amount of draw would also make the power lines more unstable for the neighbors. The efficiency would not be there if by resistor heating (ie. element that heats up to heat the water rather than by induction heating).

Those against nuclear power should make no complaints to countries that use nuclear to produce cheap electricity. After all, a country that has cheap power has a direct competitive advantage over another country that doesn't have it. I do know that back in Canada, power prices is still 6 cts/kW/hr (prov. BC anytime rate) and the typical home there probably consumes less electricity than one in NZ.

[Tia Maria]

Thanks Super BQ!

What a fantastically comprehensive reply explaining these pricing structures. :nice1

I think from what you've said it certainly wouldn't suit us as a family with young children, you never know when you're going to need to shower the mud off of one, wash the sheets of the other or clean up the paint smeared everywhere by the third. :laugh

I can cut down usage of hot water but we always need access to it, so I'll have to look for a plan similar to our existing one but hopefully cheaper.

Cheers

Tia

[sarahw]

I have no real experience with the so called 'hot water on demand' systems. I would assume the LPG/rock gas would be far more effective than the all electricity units.

That's what we were told by the plumbers & its hooked up outdoors to our LPG gas bottles.

[KerryS]

Ditto Sarah - although I have mains gas, not LPG bottles. Hot water whenever I turn on the tap.

[DB]

Most houses are wired for and equipped for controlled power because NZ has been doing this since the 1920s or there about, so it's not new. Street lights are also controlled using ripple control, so the streetlights go on at the click of a mouse.

Kiwi houses generally have a fairly big hot water cylinder, as many people choose to have their hot water heated on $0.13 juice overnight rather than $0.17 juice available most of the day or $0.20 antime juice. (Illustrative prices only). If you just shower night only is fine, but wash lots of clothes in hot water and have many baths and you'll need to pay more for your juice.

If you are chosing a day/night plan note that day electricity on some plans is more expensive than the anytime plans, so make sure you shift loads to cheap time or you'll throw money away.

[nippa&pippa]

As I am at rental house at the moment, we don't have a choice of which systems etc with water and heating.
I am trying to work out the best system with heating..our house got tiny wall heater in kitchen which is doing rubbish job! Also got nightstore heater in hallway in bedrooms areas!! not in lounge etc :confused:
As I am stay at home mum with two young children, what is cheap way to keep house warm all day during winter????? Is i am better off to keep electric heaters on low, running all day? or use it in the evening only? Got three of them at moments, thinking of getting more to spread heaters around the 3 bedroom house to be more economy?. We also brought gas heater too.
Any advice on how to keep house warm without cost us too much on electricity bills :confused:
Thanks!