[stoorob]

I've been thinking about emmigrating for some time now and fancy the idea of coming to New Zealand.

I've been reading a lot of posts on this site and there seems to be a lot of negative posts.

For instance, a big complaint seems to be the salaries people are on compared to the cost of living. Also, the cost of buying a house seems to be higher than I first imagined. Especially if you're looking for one that's in a good area, not south facing and has a decent amount of land.

I get the impression that the areas which are worth living in are very expensive, unless you decide to live miles and miles away from a big town\city or in a more down trodden area.

Another complaint seems to be with taxes and charges. A gripe seems to be bank charges and high interest rates for mortgages and loans.

What else? Heating your home. Is it really that expensive to heat your home in the winter that the popular option seems to be wear more jumpers then grin and bare it?

Schooling seemed to be another issue with some people saying that although their kids were really happy and got to do a lot of outdoor activities, they found that their school lacked technologically with other countries and were sharing equipment or using outdated tools. I always thought New Zealand had a really school system, when compaired with certain areas of Britain for instance.

I'm trying not to be put off with coming over and still want to as there's not substitute for seeing things first hand.

Surley there's more to living there than just getting by and having to put up with a lot of things that you never had to in your own country? I'm from Scotland and don't like being ripped off by Britain and the general state of the system, but I wouldn't want to move to another country just to replace those gripes with different ones.

There has to be a lot of good points of living in New Zealand apart from lovely scenery and friendly people. We all miss things from home, but are most people happy with having made the move, or are they just getting on with it because they've made their bed and feel they have to lie in it?

Stuart

[Debbie P.]

Hi Stuart,

This is a difficult one, and I'm sure will provoke a lot of discussion. I do sympathise, as I'm in the same boat in many ways, and it's an expensive mistake to make.

It will largely depend on factors such as:

how much you expect to be paid (this will affect how you feel about costs); how important you perceive an 'academic' education to be for your children (and whether you could afford private schooling);
how annoyed you are likely to get by bank charges (bearing in mind that we seem to be heading in the same direction here!)

At the end of the day, no one on this forum is exactly like you - we all have different amounts of money and different perceptions about how rich we feel and how expensive we think things are. Those who have done it have different niggles and no one can say that you're likely to feel the same way as them, anyway. There are people on here who have no concerns at all - they are perfectly happy in NZ.

However... if you already feel 'ripped off' by Britain, from what I've heard on this forum and in other places... you may well feel 'ripped off' by NZ too, e.g. cost of living, taxes etc. I have a feeling it all balances out, but if something is more expensive there, we're probably more likely to notice it than something that is cheaper, simply because we're new in the country and feeling a bit vulnerable.

Is there any chance you can come out for a short period of time, e.g. a year, just to see how it goes? I don't know what work you are in, but is there a chance of a job exchange? I would do that if I could. Or maybe let your property here and have an escape plan if it really isn't for you?

The worst thing would be not to try it at all and then regret it years down the line.

[dharder]

Difficult indeed, and really only you can decide what's important for you.

I don't really want to move to NZ, I have agreed to because my kiwi partner is rather homesick for country and family, and pretty much has been for the last 10 years. So I've agreed to a three year trial-and-then-take-it-from-there.

I don't expect our lives to be greatly better in quality overall. I can see a couple of things that will definitely be better (for us, that is schooling and housing), and some that will definitely be worse (money, job opportunities, distance from family).

But what I found is that I have to look very specifically at our situation: the house we will move into is bigger than ours here, and so is the garden. But obviously not every house in NZ that we could afford would have been bigger. The school that the children will go to is a lot better than the one they go to at the moment, but there are also schools a lot worse. For us, those two aspects will improve, but not because it is NZ, but for a number of other reasons. There isn't really a general comparison possible between UK and NZ life, because is depends on so many individual aspects.

I have moved country three times in the last 15 years. Once very far away from my family to a very different culture, once back to my country of origin, and then once not too far. From my experience I can say for myself that the circumstances I live in are rather secondary, it is my attitude towards them that makes a difference. Whatever I perceive as problematic in one place, I will think of as a problem 10,000 miles away. If I am an outdoorsy type person, I will be so in East London as well as NZ. If I'm not, then I won't change into one because the outdoors in NZ is nicer. If I feel underpaid and undervalued in one country, I am likely to feel so in another, if that makes any sense.

Okay, just rambling, and really just telling myself that it'll be okay.

Daniela

[JoHnH]

"I wouldn't want to move to another country just to replace those gripes with different ones."

Well, nowhere's perfect, and as Spike Milligan said, "Everybody's got to be somewhere."

Seems to me that the main or key difference between NZ and the UK is simply population density - about 15 per sq km versus 245 per sq km in roughly the same area. Most of the problems you mention stem ultimately from that?
So if you're basically happy with conditions where you are, don't feel overcrowded, don't see a lot of Britain's problems arising from population density, why move?
A lot of your 19th century predecessors were fleeing the class system, and were prepared to put up with a fair bit of roughing it in order to find something different. Not necessarily better in every or even most respects, just different. I doubt people are fleeing the class system as such nowadays. But doesn't wanting to get away from something have to be a factor in shifting when you don't have to? Even if it's just the weather.
(Bit different for Americans I suppose - their population density is only about twice that of NZ. They might need political reasons for moving?)

[Ana&Steve]

hello, American here!
Our personal reasons for moving do have to do with politics and government decisions that effect our lives much more than we could have imagined...but also we want to slow our pace down and try to live with less stress. Our stress comes from jobs, consumerism, commute, crime, additional fees/penalties from every service we have (electricity, insurance, mortgage, water/trash/sewer, medical, etc). Not saying others don't have it worse, just that we're ready to change what we don't like about or lives.
We feel we have a pretty good grasp on the problems we face moving to NZ(thanks to friends and forums). Our major plan is to leave our US thought process in the States and adopt a Kiwi mentality. We aren't just moving for the scenery, we really want to become New Zealanders. We may (or may not) have an advantage in an adoptive Kiwi family spread out on the NI, deriving from my best friend's family. I am looking forward to learning from them how to make ends meet.
I think if you leave all your preconceptions behind, and work with what comes to you in NZ, (besides your container of stuff and whatever money you scrape up) things will go better in the long run. Also, try to find humor in the differences, it's harder to fail when you are always smiling!:nice1
Ana

[wilson182]

Posts like this are always hard to answer, because it really does depend on your own individual circumstances.

What are your reasons for moving?
Are you Single or a Family? How many? How old?
What is your occupation?
Where do you expect to settle?

We live on the South Island, which is cheaper than, for example, living in Auckland. We were lucky to have choice, some people are bound by their occupation as to were they must settle. Some people have younger children and must rely on only one income or a second part time income. The posts on this forum try to be as helpfull with real life as they can, but it can only be about peoples personal experiences. Some of them will be good and some will be bad. The whole process is a huge learning curve, and it can take at least a year to feel settled, get used to New Zealand. I think you have to accept that you can't move here and expect to do things in the same way as your home country.

As Ana said
I think if you leave all your preconceptions behind, and work with what comes to you in NZ, (besides your container of stuff and whatever money you scrape up) things will go better in the long run. Also, try to find humor in the differences, it's harder to fail when you are always smiling!


I firmly have a foot in the "come and check it out first" camp. Expensive I know, and not everyone can afford to do it. There are also people on here who didn't and are loving it. Likewise, there are people who did and who want to go back. There is no right or wrong answer. At the very least it will be an (OK expensive) adventure.

[sarahw]

Well life here is certainly different than that of the UK.

Bank charges/mortgages? Well I'd heard that some banks in UK are about to launch charges... If you get with the right bank you don't pay much in charges at all and the high mortgages - well you get high savings returns too so it works both ways - we really don't think about our mortgage rate, more about what our monthly outgoings are so they don't bother us at all.

Almost everything here is imported, so its going to cost to buy stuff. People don't have the same amount of disposable income as they do in say UK, USA but then I don't see the same amount of pointless consumerism that I did in UK where kids have to have £100- trainers - here kids get what is available - usually on offer & are happy with them whether they have a logo or not. I don't see that as a bad thing & am happy that my daughter is going to grow up without so much pressure to wear the right stuff & have all the right gadgets.

School system I'm sure all depends on which school you put your kids into - I've seen some fantastic schools and some poor schools out here but isn't that the same as anywhere??... Certainly doesn't seem to affect the intelligence of the overall population - we're supposed to be the most well-read country in the world! I know loads of Kiwi's who have landed superb jobs in Europe on their Kiwi educations (non-private) so it can't all be bad?! Plus I'm happy if my daughter gets to do loads of outdoor stuff at school such as sport (if she wants to) so long as she enjoys her education & gets a good base in all subjects I'd be really happy (some people may not & may want academic brilliance but that's their choice & I respect that).

As for heating, well you DON'T have to be cold in NZ - its just that for some unknown reason Kiwis build houses without heating & don't see it as a priority!! You can have it installed... Of course, after living in a country where central heating is the norm and people can sit around in their undies on the sofa whilst its minus 5 degrees outside, it can be a shock to arrive here, where the building materials are different & actually feel cold indoors on a day when its 10 degrees outside!! We put heating into our house in the living areas, but the bedrooms we hardly heated in UK & only heat my daughter's room & ours first thing in the morning - energy is expensive, but from what I hear its going up in price everywhere & certainly gas has gone up in price quite a bit since we left UK. Its only for about 4-5 months of the year - not 7-8 months as we were used to before we left so its bearable!!

I think that most people worry about how they're going to cope financially when they get here - its natural - we had the same worries - so that's why its focussed on so much on the forum.

There are loads of good things here - we have a fabulous life & its only when we have visitors from overseas who stand open-mouthed that we realise how good we do have it. We're able to own a much nicer & bigger home than we would have ever dreamed of anywhere else. My hubby will be able to retire at 50 rather than at 65 in the UK because of the house prices. In Welly (& probably in loads of other places) there are free events on often in the city (nearly every weekend during the summer), most of the museums are free, OK we have less disposable income but then I worked 2-4 days a week the last year & half for a very low wage (when I used to earn loads back in Europe but for what amount of stress??!!) before we had my daughter & now I don't work at all - could I have taken that slower pace of life back in UK? Heck no!! I also had the chance to follow my dreams here & have the job I'd always wanted to do which I just couldn't break into no matter what I did back in UK (plus couldn't have afforded to have the wage drop). Hubby is home by 5.30 every night to put daughter to bed - that in my eyes is priceless - family seems to come first here - if we have something special on we know he can come home in time to attend it. Fridays he's home early (or he gets to stay & crack into the beer fridge at work - most organisations have this - either beer fridge or wine on Friday afternoons - work stops & everyone has a social chat) & if he's home early we get time in summer to go to the beach for a wine at the bar or for a picnick on the beach. His company has so many social functions - going wine tasting in Marlborough, going to movie premieres, rugby do's, cooking classes, bowling, pool tournaments, dinners, theatre the list goes on!!! - my old company in Europe used to think that a function was having a pizza by the photocopier during our lunch-hour once a year instead of an Xmas party!! My hubby's UK co. cancelled their Xmas party saying that they couldn't afford it. When he had a week off with a bad back he got sent a hamper by his co. here & his boss came round to see if he was OK & if there was anything that he & his family could do to help - in the UK they just wanted to know when he would be back to work if he was ever off. It makes work so pleasurable when all the staff have had some down-time outside of the work environment together & get on really well!! On a sunny day you're not stuck in traffic going to the coast like we used to be in UK - because most people live on the coast - we live walking distance from our nearest beach, fun activities such as kayaking, fishing, windsurfing, diving etc. are just a couple of minutes from our home or at the bottom of our road - things are so accessible here! The same can be said for going to things like big events like rugger games with the AB's easier to get tickets than trying to get tickets to see England play! Holidays can be so much more fun doing simpler things in life - I would never have gone camping in the UK but we are planning to go camping every year now. I love having the time to get to know people - people are more friendly here & I put it down to not only the population but the fact that people have more time to relax. Oh I get time to bake bread, cakes (that hubby's workmates now fight over!), preserves - would never have had 5 minutes to even sit down back in UK because my job took me overseas so much.


Phew - that was quite a lot of stuff!, but just wanted to let you know there is a whole heap more to living here than the financial aspects!! For us life is sweet & I wouldn't swap our move (central heating & all) for anywhere else in the world.

[gil]

I've been thinking about emmigrating for some time now and fancy the idea of coming to New Zealand.

I've been reading a lot of posts on this site and there seems to be a lot of negative posts.

For instance, a big complaint seems to be the salaries people are on compared to the cost of living. This is the reality and a kiwi complaint as well as an immigrant one. Also, the cost of buying a house seems to be higher than I first imagined. Especially if you're looking for one that's in a good area, not south facing and has a decent amount of land. Property prices have ioncreased hugely on the last few years, so NZ is no longer the land of affordable housing. There is current debate similar to that in UK about "how on earth can first time buyers get a foot on the first rung of the proerty ladder?"

I get the impression that the areas which are worth living in are very expensive, unless you decide to live miles and miles away from a big town\city or in a more down trodden area. Very subjective. I would agree you need to be here to get a feel, only we didn't! We chose this area over the internet, largely based on school zones and have been delighted ever since.

Another complaint seems to be with taxes and charges. A gripe seems to be bank charges and high interest rates for mortgages and loans. Can't see why it's a gripe unless you come without researching it. It is the way it is here, so whilst we may not like it, moaning won't help anyone and can give a negative impression to others. And if you come with money, I guess higher interest rates are a good thing!

What else? Heating your home. Is it really that expensive to heat your home in the winter that the popular option seems to be wear more jumpers then grin and bare it? Can't answer yet as we haven't lived through a winter here.

Schooling seemed to be another issue with some people saying that although their kids were really happy and got to do a lot of outdoor activities, they found that their school lacked technologically with other countries and were sharing equipment or using outdated tools. I always thought New Zealand had a really school system, when compaired with certain areas of Britain for instance. As I've said elsehwere, the three schools ours are at are all excellent. The equipement and technology are top notch and we are very pleased with the academic side too. The PE is a real bonus and is certainly not a substitute for the academic side.

I'm trying not to be put off with coming over and still want to as there's not substitute for seeing things first hand. We sold up and came over without visiting first, (call us mad, but are are lots of others in the same boat on this forum) and whilst we knew that this was intended to be a long term commitment, we always thought that if it wasn't, we would go back to the UK ricfher in experience if not in ££.

Surley there's more to living there than just getting by and having to put up with a lot of things that you never had to in your own country? I'm from Scotland and don't like being ripped off by Britain and the general state of the system, but I wouldn't want to move to another country just to replace those gripes with different ones. You don't have to have any gripes in life, y'know. :D

There has to be a lot of good points of living in New Zealand apart from lovely scenery and friendly people. We all miss things from home, but are most people happy with having made the move, or are they just getting on with it because they've made their bed and feel they have to lie in it?
We're getting on with it because the life we have here is lovely. Our new house (not moved in yet) is spacious and has lovely views; the kids are happy and settled in school where, in general, they find the kids friendlier, the environment easier to learn in because it's quieter and more disciplined; we prefer the weather here to that in Cardiff, so far at least; we have some good friends (forum and others) and I dare say, a better social life than we had in UK beacuse we have more time for it; we never had extended family close by in UK so don't miss that, indeed talk to our families more often than we used to (and they will certainly visit more than they used to!); love my job, great qulaity of work and nice colleagues....er, does that give a reasonable picutre?

Stuart

I wish you all the best with your future Stuart, please use this forum to help you decide wisely, there's some great thoughts here.

Gil

[anna_c]

Just on the bank fees question - if you have either a mortgage or a few thousand in savings, and you manage your account well (eg don't go into unauthorised overdraft) you can usually manage not to pay any fees for your banking (I think there'll still be ones associated with the mortgage, but I'm not sure).

[jess]

People don't have the same amount of disposable income as they do in say UK, USA but then I don't see the same amount of pointless consumerism that I did in UK where kids have to have £100- trainers - here kids get what is available - usually on offer & are happy with them whether they have a logo or not. I don't see that as a bad thing & am happy that my daughter is going to grow up without so much pressure to wear the right stuff & have all the right gadgets. Well said! :yes

[Trigirl]

anna - we have a mortgage with westpac and don't pay any fees on either our current account or our mortgage. before getting the mortgage we still didn't pay any fees provided we kept $5k in the account (average over the month)

[stu70]

What else? Heating your home. Is it really that expensive to heat your home in the winter that the popular option seems to be wear more jumpers then grin and bare it?


Well hope they don't grin and bare it. Or else there will be entertainment tax from the feds (or should I say the Central Govt).:laugh :laugh Sorry just could not resist. But on a serious note, you do raise a lot of good points that need to be considered by anyone wishing to make the move. Regards

[willsken]

The wages aren't as high here but I think as long as you know what position you will be in financially before you come then that is something in your control. I am a teacher and OH is a builder and we are doing just fine. We still have property in the UK so we have a sizable mortgage here as well. It makes a big difference that we are both working.

Schools here are no more behind technologically than in the UK. It all comes down individual schools, just as it did in the UK. I’ve worked in schools in both countries now and as far as I can see the budget is in the control of the head teacher and things will come down to his/her priorities.

Both my boys are happier here than in the UK. They have a better life here, full stop. There is no doubt in my mind, what so ever, that we have done the right thing by them coming to live here. The oldest boy is finding settling into school harder than the youngest, who is still at primary school. Again, the older boy took a while to settle when he started secondary school in the UK. That one is down to the personality of each child.

It’s as everyone keeps saying regarding the heating. You don’t have to be cold. I have no intention of being cold in my own home. No way! If that means for a couple of months my bills will be higher then so be it. The house we live in is very well insulated and has a log burner. If this turns out to be inadequate then I will do something to change that ready for next winter.

I am also happy with the lack of consumerism over here. In the UK the boys were constantly pressuring me for the new PS games and other gadgets that were expensive must haves. They haven’t asked for new things like that over here at all. A new skate board, a pair of stilts, yes, they have asked for those!

There are things over here that I don’t like, the price of mobile calls being my biggest bugbear. I just don’t see the point in dwelling on it. I don’t believe there is anywhere in the world I could live and be perfectly happy. I for one love my life here and wouldn’t swap it for the UK. Somehow I just don’t feel as ripped off by the system here as I did in the UK.

We are all different, we all want and need different things from life. I think if you are going to come and live here just make sure you know how much you will earn and roughly how much of a mortgage you will need. NZ isn’t a cheap place to live and you will need to be sure you can afford the monthly bills. No matter what the place has to offer if you struggle financially then there is nothing harder, whatever country that maybe in.

[wanderingoregonian]

intresting thread.. all i have time to add is a bit on bank fees. We went with PSIS and as long as we maintain a balance of 1500 or so, there are no fees.

[CjChris]

From my experience I can say for myself that the circumstances I live in are rather secondary, it is my attitude towards them that makes a difference. Whatever I perceive as problematic in one place, I will think of as a problem 10,000 miles away. Daniela

That is so correct. There's a saying, "No matter where you go, there you are." It sounds silly, but it is true!

We all are hoping for a better life in New Zealand, but even if NZ were perfect (which it is not) and if we were the type of people to always focus on the negatives or what we don't have, we'd be unhappy regardless of the change of scenery.

The sufi poet Rumi wrote, "Those who don't drink dawn like a cup of spring water, or take in sunset like supper, those who don't want to change, let them sleep."

I think the most successful migrants are those who are not afraid of stepping outside their comfort zone, they readily accept changes, they seek new opportunities and challenges, and they try to mainly focus on positive goals rather than whine about all the negatives.

I think it is good to question the negatives as part of evaluating one's choices to the positive aspects of a move. On this board, I've noticed a general waffle between the two, but it's a good energy here as we all learn from each other, which is what life is all about in my opinion.

That'll be two cents, please :laugh

[isv]

Stuart,

It is clear to me that the overwhelming reason why people return to the UK is down to cost of living. The combination of a low salary and a cost of living that might not be that different to the UK is going to put stress on most people - if you have a family to support then especially so.

We built a software model that compares UK lifestyle/tax/COL data with the NZ equivalents across typical income/job groups and the results were quite revealing... Very few jobs in NZ pay enough to fund a 'UK consumer lifestyle'. Unless you can live a life of great economy and/or are prepared to drop UK consumer habits then you better make sure you have a wedge of capital behind you. If you've got significant capital and/or run your own business then funding a great lifestyle is doable. If you're swapping a UK job for the NZ equivalent and still need a big mortgage in NZ then I'd suggest you would stand a great chance of joining the other returnees after a year or so.

Now for balance there are indeed countless people who are naturally thrifty, don't consume excessively and (especially) don't have lots of kids to drain their funds... who have a terrific lifestyle in NZ.

Alan.

[JoHnH]

"Very few jobs in NZ pay enough to fund a 'UK consumer lifestyle'."
If the software model says so, it must be true. I guess what would be of great interest to potential migrants would be what those "very few" occupations are.
But ultimately there seems to be no getting away from the "per capita GDP" comparison, with NZ way down there at the bottom of the OECD charts, and probably unlikely to climb up significantly anytime soon. It seems that you have to bung the "clean, green, safe and friendly" image, as advertised, in one side of your personal scales, and the "low GDP" thing in the other, and see which side swings down for you.
Obviously long gone is the original colonists' dream of building "a better Britain in the South Seas." But also long gone is the "cultural cringe" which, well after WW2, led many New Zealanders to still refer to the UK as "home."
She's her own girl now. "Poor but pretty" maybe describes her.
I'm a Kiwi. She'll do for me.

[jaycee]

Anyone considering whether or not to make the move might enjoy reading this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emigrate-Caution-Nicola-Butler/dp/0953594203

It's the story of a UK family who emigrated, without having a job, but with a fairly large chunk of cash. They went home after four years.

I read it years ago, and at the time dismissed most of it as I thought the writer was a snob. Whether or not that's true, I think it's fair to say that some of the family's problems were due to trying to replicate their UK lifestyle. However there are moments (e.g. when I'm shopping in The Warehouse ;) ) when I can understand their comments about New Zealand, when compared to the UK, being unsophisticated and down-market. It's a generalisation of both countries, but something to consider - the flip-side of the lack of consumerism I suppose.

[Moorf]

Very few jobs in NZ pay enough to fund a 'UK consumer lifestyle'

Very interesting, and true imho.

But what exactly is a UK consumer lifestyle these days?

And is NZ less attractive to Brits nowadays because they can't come here with buckets of cash and lead "better lifestyles"? Is moving to NZ as a "sideways move" not an option or must you see an increase in size of house/car/disposable income in order to tip the scales?

And can only those with buckets of cash actually afford the "simpler life" here anymore without simply being "poor"?

Having a philosophical Sunday....

:o

[isv]

At the end of the day we live and die by our expectations. If you try to replicate a UK lifestyle in NZ then without deep pockets you will fail - miserably. My view on moving to NZ was to take it as a great opportunity to reset expectations and focus on quality not quantity - and be happy to 'do without' all the consumer crap that infests life in the UK (where I currently reside BTW).

Now regarding the book referenced above... it is crap. It illustrates perfectly how poor expectations and lack of preparation will drive you out of any new country in good time. Whilst reading the book it was clear to me the author would fail; indeed deserved to fail. Your new country won't change to accomodate you - you have to be the one prepared to change. If you cannot accept a potential change of lifestyle, less disposalable income nor accept local customs then you might as well not go - because you'll be coming back soon enough.

Alan.

[Moorf]

isv - I'm glad I'm not the only one who really didn't like that book, it was one of the first I bought a couple of years back - if anything I thouht it was an insult to Kiwi's/NZ and made Brits look like they had their heads well and truly up themselves.... they came, they spent, they spent, they spent, they moaned, they criticised and they returned, £100k down, having not worked in the 4 yrs they'd been here.

I'd say read the book, and if you can relate to it, stay in the UK :laugh

[anna_c]

I'm seriously considering getting the book just for a laugh now. I have the type of morbid curiosity that leads me to seek out blogs written by religious fundamentalists.

[wilson182]

I wholeheartedly agree with Moorf and ISV, in fact, Ive still got the book somewhere is anyone wants a read:laugh

[Moorf]

Definitely worth the read Anna! :D

[jen]

I'd never heard of that one - now am quite curious also!

We wanted to get away from the consumerism in the US (the ever-larger SUVs and houses, the feeling that spending was almost a patriotic duty to keep the economy going) and it seems much less of a pressure here.

After only 3 months in NZ, though, I can't tell if that's because of a real difference in the kiwi mentality - maybe begun from the days when consumer goods weren't as available mixed with the 'use it up or wear it out' emmigrant/pioneer era - or if it's just that people don't have the same kind of disposable income as in the States & if they did they'd be out spending it on the same stuff.

Jen

[Sam B]

It's still early days for me, but I can see that we could be very happy here. All the things you specifically list are fine for us, and the school my children are now at is wonderful. The only major problem is the lack of friends at first, but in time, that will improve.

[willsken]

How old are the kids Sam? Tom, 10 years old, no problems and has loads of friends. Yet Matt 13 is struggling a bit.

[KerryS]

But what exactly is a UK consumer lifestyle these days?

And is NZ less attractive to Brits nowadays because they can't come here with buckets of cash and lead "better lifestyles"? Is moving to NZ as a "sideways move" not an option or must you see an increase in size of house/car/disposable income in order to tip the scales?



I have no idea about consumer levels in the UK as I've been away for too long, and when I did leave I wasn't in a position to be a big spender. (Academic living in London = very little disposable income!)

Moving to NZ has been the best move I could have made. I have left academe (another story totally!) and am now more than happy with my career and the opportunities that it affords me. So for me, I can't really compare salary as I'm in a completely different sector to the one I worked in the UK. But, my current employment does allow me to have a great lifestyle, which I appreciate.

To answer your original queries Stoorob:

I live in what is considered an expensive area of Auckland, but I enjoy living here, and it's where I choose to be. I'm happy to pay out more to live here than be rich and live in another area. At the moment I want to live where I can have fun, have great facilities on my doorstep and be close to work and friends. I came over with nothing in the bank at all, so didn't have a big deposit or anything. It can be done on Kiwi wages - how do people think Kiwis themselves get on?

Bank charges - I don't have any (except on my business accounts). My personal account doesn't attract any if you stop the monthly paper statements, so I just print these out at home. My bank could not be more helpful - something I certainly couldn't say when in the UK.

Heating - my house seems warm enough to me. I certainly don't feel cold inside in winter, nor do I rug up by wearing loads of jumpers inside. My bills aren't significantly higher during the winter period either. But I didn't have double glazing in the UK, and only a very tempremental central heating system, so maybe I'm more acclimatised to a colder house?

I can only comment on schooling from an academic perspective, not from a parental one. But I would say the majority of schools I visited were excellent, from small country schools with only one classroom, to the private schools with every facility you could dream of.

I for one could not be happier with my move to NZ.

[stoorob]

Hasn't this been a busy forum....thanks for all the feedback and information.

I think that no matter what I read or hear we're still going to come over and give things a go. I don't want to be the one saying I wish I'd tried it when I'm too old to do anything about it.

I'm not expecting to move and for everything to be perfect, how boring would that be? Besides, if New Zealand was perfect then everyone would move there and it would become overcrowded, polluted and expensive to live in pretty quickly.

Our plan is to clear the debt we currently have and start our application in a couple of years time. If we get in then we'll rent our house for a year or two and then sell up if we think it's the place for us. Failing that, we'll come back home and take things from there. The company I work for just now are pretty helpful and I have a good relationship with them. If I'm still here in two years time then there's a good chance they would take me back on if I returned a year later.

We're looking to move away from Scotland and to go to a country with less hang ups and more outdoor activities without having to drive forever and cost an arm and a leg to do. Not a huge part of our reasons but one that interests us. We don't have any kids yet, but do want some and can see ourselves having a couple of mini Kiwis in the future. We'll both be working if we were to move over and definitely have some money behind us to keep us going until we settle in properly.

One thing we don't expect to happen is to move over and live the same life as we currently do, as what would be the point in moving to another country only to live the same way as you did in Britain? We know that we'll need to change our way of thinking and try and think like a Kiwi to have any chance of making a success out of the move.

Ideally We'd both have jobs before coming over but this is probably not very realistic as I'd imagine most employers would like to see us face to face first. I work in IT as a senior developer and my wife is a medical secretary\PA, so hopefully we'd be able to find work within a month or two of moving over.

Does anyone know of any good books\videos that we could buy that would give us some more information on New Zealand and life there?

Stu

[gil]

Great scenery and very funny, Billy Connolly's World Tour of New Zealand. Only funny if you like BC, of course!
Have a look at the Reading Group thread in The Lounge for books. None particularly helpful!

Gil

[JoHnH]

"One thing we don't expect to happen is to move over and live the same life as we currently do, as what would be the point in moving to another country only to live the same way as you did in Britain? We know that we'll need to change our way of thinking and try and think like a Kiwi ..."
Well there's lots of books - try Paul Goddard on his emigration experience, Joe Bennett on hitch-hiking around the country after 15 years as an accidental immigrant, look at some tourist websites ... but you can't go past Michael King, our greatest popular historian, and his History of New Zealand.
The final paragraph of the book reads
"And most New Zealanders, whatever their cultural backgrounds, are good-hearted, practical, commonsensical and tolerant. These qualities are part of the national cultural capital that has in the past saved the country from the worst excesses of chauvinism and racism seen in other parts of the world. They are as sound a basis as any for optimism about the country's future."
You don't have to think "like a Kiwi." You just have to think like a reasonable, sensible bloke. It's not that hard to do. Don't go on and on about Bisto. Just admit that Gravyquick will do.

[Sam B]

Willsken - my children are 10 and 6. But they have made loads of friends and are v happy. I meant me for the lack of friends!