[dave k]

So, tonight's gonna be the big test of the new legislation then...

What do you guys reckon? I'm a smoker myself, but I think it's a fair enough law. After all, most folk don't smoke & should be entitled to breathe clean air. I do wish there were a few bars that could legally be smoking bars though.just from a selfish p.o.v

It'll be fun to see what happens either way though...will there be riots on Courtney Place?? :booby

[Dave & Sandra]

Did you see the news tonight? There's a place on the South Island that was on TV and most people in the bar were smoking - sorry I've forgotten where it was now. The owner is a heavy smoker himself and was demanding that people should have their democratic rights. He thinks there should be smoking and non-smoking bars and I agree with him. No doubt the smoking police will turn up to fine him $4,000 even though the majority of his customers want to smoke and he's happy with that. Summats wrong somewhere. :no

Both the owners of our local are very heavy smokers and were taking turns out back in their open-air smoking area tonight. :roll:

Sandra

[Diny]

It's a crazy law !!!!!! I'm a non-smoker but I think banning smoking in pubs and bars is insane !!!!!!

Diny

[catjlin]

I guess I'm split on it. I believe that everyone has the right to do with their own body, but as a bartender that has to inhale that stuff over the bar every night for hours on end, I'm keen to not have to deal with it anymore. Whoever mentioned smoking/nonsmoking bars might be on to something, sounds like a fair enough compromise.
Cat

[Watt Dabney]

WD

[clg]

I am in complete support of this! In California it has been illegal to smoke in public places, including bars, for years now. People made a very big deal about it at first but it just gets accepted.

[markkellaway]

Most places that have done this, including California as far as I know, have found that after the initial exodus of smokers their business has actually increased hugely.

I'm all for this law, it always amazes me how vehimently some people use the free choice card, seems an illogical argument in this case.

This is a very subjective thread though, and will surely become a little heated. Perhaps it belongs in the lounge?

Mark. :P

[sarahw]

Hi,

I must say that whilst I really feel for people that smoke (and was out tonight with 2 people who only smoke when they go out for a drink and were complaining about this) I've just come out from a night in a restaurant & I absolutely stink & have a sore throat. I'm in support of this law.

However, I would equally not mind if there were bars that did have smoking as a policy & then everyone would get to choose if they went to a smoking bar or a non-smoking bar... :cheers

[chuchi]

hi everyone,

we have a smoking ban in effect here in the largest entertainment district in the philippines (makati city) and at first it was met with a lot of criticisms but is now acceptable to the people.

some bars and restaurants have set up dining areas outside the bar (cafe type) for the smokers (but i'm not sure if this is applicable in NZ because of the cold and windy weather while the philippines is a tropical country) while others have constructed separate enclosed areas for smokers inside the establishment. so smokers and non-smokers both enjoy what the bars and restos have to offer!

personally, this is good news for me since i dont smoke.

[toesonthenose]

Rant on:
I don't know about NZ stats. But in the US tobacco kills 440,000 people annually, and costs the country 75 billion dollars in direct medical expenses and 82 billion dollars in lost productivity. It ensnares children in an expensive cycle of addiction which costs them thousands of dollars and takes years off their life. Saddam and Osama are just pretenders compared to the combination of death, profit, and political influence of the tobacco companies. The World Health Organization estimates 250,000,000 (yes that says 250 Million) will die worldwide from tobacco over the next 25 years. My own father died at 51 from lung cancer from smoking. If Bush honestly cared about who is a threat to Americans he would have sent the troops to RJR and Philip Morris. I am a family physician and have spent the last 13 years active in battling tobacco's blanket of complacency over society. Bravo to NZ for fighting the good fight!
Rant off.

[Moorf]

As a smoker I do think the lack of choice for smokers is unfair. I don't disagree with the no-smoking law but can't they charge a licence fee for places that want to allow smoking - put it towards anti-smoking campaigns? A blanket ban just seems so un-Kiwi to me....

[Milliemoo]

Just curious......

If you're a smoker and you know that smoking kills, but you still think it's your choice/decision to smoke, are you living under the pretence of 'it'll never happen to me'? :?

It just seems an odd thing to do, when you know what it's doing to your insides ?????

I'm an ex-smoker, but I was a lot younger and did think 'it won't happen to me'. I just can't believe that people continue to smoke out of choice knowing that they are slowly killing themselves????

Milliemoo ;)

[leslie]

ya know - i'm up for the ban. but do think smokers should have their own facilities (after all, misery loves company!!!). short of euthenising y'all, which i'd PROBABLY not support!!!! we have to accept that to a certain degree the desire to smoke is part of the complex trait bag that makes us human and possibly even interesting.

that said, when the day arrives officially i will also support additional health care top-up fees from smokers, heavy drinkers etc. sigh - i just hope they dont ban caffiene - surely that isn't far off. then again, coffee addicts are already used to paying through the nose for their weakness so how much worse can it get?

i used to bartend in my errant youth and noted even back then restaurants that served good food never allowed smoking but lousy resties loved it - kills the taste of the food. banning smoking from bars etc is a smart move and why is uk dragging its clubbed feet ????(no pun intended but it works) now would they focus on noise levels?

[Moorf]

Oh Millie, if I knew the answer to your question I'd be rich!

This will sound even stranger to you, no doubt, but whilst we do enjoy smoking we want to give up (again! Gave up for a yr last yr).

We WILL do it, just a case of getting our life settled again :nice1

[Arlevien]

in NYC, whn a similar law was passed, a man got killed, a bouncer, trying to push out a guy who was smoking inside the bar. The guy went back wtih a gun to the place and shoot the bouncer. Just sharing here folks.

I do smoke, but only on drinking occasions. Smokers have rights too, and the same as non-smokers. I'm for the law but they should allow places that tolerates smoking.

For business, what most of the NYC bars did was they get licences to put tables in the sidewalks, to accompany smokers. What it turned is that most of their customers are outside even non-smokers. And almost nobody wants to stay inside the bar.

[leslie]

arl darlin'

people like sitting outside because they want to be where the action is. i believe it is reffered to as watchin the world go by...

facilities for smokers would be appropriate and a major money spinner so it is surprising that so little has been done in this area. but is a minor issue in the bigger pic. politicians love this angle because it distracts from real issues like the fact that most of the worlds children live without access to basic childhood provision while resources are subverted to tobbaco subsidies, healthcare for smoking-related disease etc. in true democracy- which would recognise smokers rights - all minors should have access to essential education, food, healthcare, approp housing and character building opportunities without having to rely on the parent lottery. amazing to consider that people are starving and even children in developed countries lack basic provisions while affluent countries pump serious dosh into smoking, obesity etc. it is a gross failure of imagination that people see smoking as an acceptable use of their income and cannot visualise what they could achieve where those earnings redirected in legit ways and their health better appreciated.


when state healthcare, pensions etc were set up it was with the understanding that 1. people would continue to use their brains 3. people would at least attempt to contribute financially 2. everyone would marry and have at least 2.4 babes 3. healthcare provision would cover uncontrollable disease etc. at no time did anyone suggest increasing taxes were to enable hedonism - a state in which the individ carries no guilt or responsibility for the outcome of their behaviour.


i have no desire to see smokers and their children dying painful, protracted deaths while using hours of each and every day to fund and perpetuate it - in fact i empathise with their plight and am grateful to have escaped. at same time smokers must cover the true cost of their habit. I AIN'T PAYIN'. and any ban must include ALL public spaces, sidewalks included. londoners didn't ask for open urinals in the west end so thugs could pee whenever they felt the urge (thanks ken - ya coulda just fined 'em) and most people dont have any interest in breathing more crap on top of already pervasive exhaust fumes. if smokers are serious about their rights they need to put credible solutions on the table.

[toesonthenose]

Good points Leslie,
Especially about the financial aspects. A recent study showed the true cost of cigarettes to be about $40/pack (US), when accounting for health costs and lost productivity. It would have been more but the average smoker dies in their early 60's so the government saves by not having to pay them social security (old age pension), which typically starts at age 65. The movie called "The Insider" is a great movie and a true story about Jeffrey Wygand going states evidence with his knowledge of the inside of a tobacco giant. I'm afraid financial ruin via the courts is the only potential path toward slaying the big US tobacco companies.
Mahalo

[Lisa.C]

I quit smoking almost 8 months ago now, I feel so much healthier, cleaner inside, I can taste food, it's wonderful, I can smell my surroundings like I hadn't in a long time, when I get a cold, it doesn't drag on for weeks..yes I made the best choice I could make for me and also for those around me who no longer have to breathe in my second hand smoke. I don't feel like a social leper. I will fly to NZ and not worry about not being able to smoke on the flight, I can go to the cinema without getting towards the end of the film and just wishing it would end as I wanted to smoke.
I don't miss having to stand outside in the freezing cold UK winter, oh I could go on and on about the benefits.

I do avoid pubs now, my social life has suffered to some extent as I can't stand the smell anymore, It's just choking and I chose not to be in those surroundings, so it would be nice to have somewhere to socialise, have a drink and not be subjected to second hand smoke.......However I don't like the idea that people who want to have a drink and smoke don't have a choice, although I wish they would stop living in denial and realise that they are slowly killing themselves and the only real beneficiaries are the ruthless tobacco companies :no

Good subject :nice1

Lisa :yes

[Karoline]

Sorry smokers, but i am verry happy about the ban. :clap
It is very annoying to not being able to go out in the Netherlands, without smelling like a chimney afterwards. Breathing smoke from others is more damaging than smoking yourself! And when going out, you can't even avoid it!
As only a minority is smoking, i think it is not fair that smokers can ruin it for the majority of the people. I often choose not to go out, but to stay home to avoid the smoke (and loud music).
My boyfriend gets sick when he is in a bar where there are smokers, so we have not been able to go out here!
Good to hear we will be able to go out in New Zealand...I love dancing!

Ofcourse when you want to smoke, go ahead! As long as it doesn't affect me, i don't care. I would not mind, if there were smoker bars.

Don't throw sigaret butts on the ground by the way: they are toxic waste!!!
Thanks :nice1
cheers,
Karoline