[jayjay]

Hi there have to make this quick as I'm about to pick up my son from pre-school...just quickly wanted to introduce myself. I'm Marina, married to an Italian and we're thinking very very seriously of going to NZ to live.

I've been out of the country for 20 years but I'm born and bred Kiwi.

Is there anyone out there who has immigrated from Europe? Italy especially that can tell us how life compares in NZ. I have many doubts however can't help but feel that growing up in NZ for my son would be as fantastic as it was for me.

Anyway I'll post again...and read thru everyone's posts when I've got more time.

So Hi there everybody...!!!!!!!

Marina :exit

[gil]

Ciao Marina!

Also in rushing mode (off to work). We emigrated from UK (technically Europe!) not contental Europe, but I lived in Italy for a short while many years ago (1986-90). When we were looking at moving the family we considered Italy, France as well as NZ. Will post later....
Gil
PS We think we have made the right choice for us!

[Familyofmonkeys]

Well, we are moving from Europe (UK) and will be there (Auckland) in a few weeks.

We'll be posting semi regularly. We'll let you know how it goes.

[barryp]

I'm curious - what are you expecting from NZ that is missing or hard to find in Italy? Comparisons only matter to the extent that they measure things that are important to you and your family.

Despite the very long list of long-term social problems in Italy, and a pretty shaky economy overall, I'd rather be living in Rome now than anywhere else in the world.

The obvious big negatives of moving to NZ are that family there would be very far away, and your leisure travel options from NZ are limited/costly by comparison. The cultural and historic resources of NZ are incredibly limited too. Of course, if those things don't matter much to you....

Welcome! (Benvenuti tutti voi)

[jayjay]

Just to answer your question Barry. I think that the whole question of having a son and wanting to give him a similar childhood to what I had is one of the reasons for the move. Also the high housing costs here, corruption in general on every working level, the rule it's not what you know but who is the absolute gospel here and it's very rare to get a job or get ahead just on your own merits. Traffic, pollution, dirt. In general I've found people in Rome are very closed not very open to knowing people from different countries or they seem to be but it's all on a very superficial level. Ummmmmmmmm well I've been here for 11 years now and I can say from my other experiences out of NZ it's probably the worst place to be if you want to bring up a family and get ahead.(I mean Rome don't know about the rest of Italy).

As far as the language, weather, history and food go of course wonderful but it's really too much of a rat race with oh tooooooooo many people. I think what I'll really miss is the weather and food. I think it's a wonderful place to come for a holiday but that's it.

You probably think I'm awful but that's the reality of things here for many people unless of course you earn lots of money and have a house.

So at the end what do I expect from NZ? Well, firstly my son will be brought up in a country which has one of the highest standards of living in the world, he'll have family near him ie granny cousins etc which he doesn't have here. Also he'd have the opportunity to play outside in the fresh air bare foot and grubby just as I did.

So now you've got me curious Barry, why are you in NZ if you'd rather be back in Rome? You've got to answer my question as I think the move is going to be harder for my Italian husband than me although he has visited a few times. I'm sure he'd like too get the low down from a fellow Romano. His family are basically non-existant so he would be leaving nothing behind he's closing off things with his work and we're preparing for the move nervously I might say.

Sorry Barry if I've been too frank I hope you're not offended. So come on I want to know why you'd rather be in Rome, apart from of course family reasons which I can fully understand.

Marina :)

P.S in my time here I have also come to know some wonderful people so they are out there not many but they're there nonetheless.

[dharder]

Just to answer your question Barry. I think that the whole question of having a son and wanting to give him a similar childhood to what I had is one of the reasons for the move.

This one caught my eye. We were wavering between moving to my partner's country of origin (NZ) or mine (Germany), away from London in any case. I love London, but it is not the greatest place to bring up children if you don't have tons of money.

But to be honest, the childhood I was thinking of, the one I would want for my kids does not exist in that form anymore anywhere other than my memory. I think it can be tricky (I've been living outside of Germany for 12 years out of the last 15) to decide what are the ways of a different country, and what is just a thing of the past.

I know that if we moved to Germany, I'd have a pretty good idea what I'd expect, and then would have to adjust that idea considerably it is 30 years old...

I'm not saying that a childhood in NZ isn't better than one in Italy, and I expect a number of things to be better in NZ for my children than they currently are here in London. But to be honest, a lot of the improvements I am hoping for have to do with moving into a better area with better schools than just generally NZ as such.

Daniela

[jayjay]

Hello there Daniela :) So are you moving to NZ then? Or are you still trying to decide? I know what you mean about our childhood only being a memory and stuff, I too lived in London not as long as you did and I loved it too. Yes it's hard in any big city with money. :yes

I have the impression of Germany as being very child friendly and civil as a country, conscious of the environment and everything so already why wouldn't those be pluses? I don't know what the housing is like but I have to say alas the houses in NZ that I've seen on the internet all look like boxes! I had never noticed that before! German houses are cute and you'd also have family I suppose nearby to give you some freedom.

EEEEEEkk hope I'm not confusing you. But hey. You know Germany better than I do.

The climate I have no idea, in NZ it's not that crash hot, here it's lovely.

Anyway nice to meet you and also you Monkey family...and Gil a yell out to you for your thoughts when you've got time.:)

Buy for now :)

[gil]

Jayjay, try pm-ing Carey? They spent six months living in Sicily recently....

Gil

[willowshouse]

Just to answer your question Barry. I think that the whole question of having a son and wanting to give him a similar childhood to what I had is one of the reasons for the move. Also the high housing costs here, corruption in general on every working level, the rule it's not what you know but who is the absolute gospel here and it's very rare to get a job or get ahead just on your own merits. Traffic, pollution, dirt. In general I've found people in Rome are very closed not very open to knowing people from different countries or they seem to be but it's all on a very superficial level. Ummmmmmmmm well I've been here for 11 years now and I can say from my other experiences out of NZ it's probably the worst place to be if you want to bring up a family and get ahead.(I mean Rome don't know about the rest of Italy).


Don't know the property market in Rome but have you seen how the prices are increasing in NZ? Auckland in particular .. last month the average house price increased by $14,000 .. that's quite a lot when the 'average' is only around $440,000.

[barryp]

Also the high housing costs here, corruption in general on every working level, the rule it's not what you know but who is the absolute gospel here and it's very rare to get a job or get ahead just on your own merits. Traffic, pollution, dirt. In general I've found people in Rome are very closed not very open to knowing people from different countries or they seem to be but it's all on a very superficial level.


Cara Marina -

One could describe Wellington in almost identical terms. (The exception is corruption - NZ has a very open government and bends backwards to avoid any hint of corruption anywhere.) In my dark days, I do; the graffiti in particular horrifies me. But in my more honest moments, I have to admit that those problems are of a MUCH lesser degree here in Wellington. Working people have a very hard time buying a place in town here and end up having to commute from their places 'nella periferia', just like Romans. But those places are far larger + safer + quiet than their Roman comparables.

That said, real estate prices all over NZ have inflated far beyond what most working people can afford and mortgages are dear (approaching 10% rates now!) So 'getting ahead' is progressively more difficult unless you are one of the fortunate migrants who arrive with a nice pile of hard currency. There are many heartbreaking stories on this very board of migrants who arrived with dreams of a better life for their kids, but who had serious problems adjusting to the high cost of living plus pitiful wages typical of NZ.

There are small Italian emigrant communities in NZ - there was a great migration after WWI from rural Campania and Basilicata, and another in the fifties from Sorrento and adjacant villages. (So you won't hear bog-standard Toscano anywhere - it's heavy southern dialect spoken by old people playing card games.) There really isn't a support system for Italian immigrants in the same way as in the USA or urban parts of Europe, so your husband would indeed face a bit of culture shock. If you have cable TV, you can get an RAI package (from RA1 and RA2, mostly, with calcio) for not so much money; that could help....

The food isn't as good here but it has exceeded my expectations. (Artichokes and asparagus - not so much. :wah ) And you can get quality Italian imports at reasonable markup.

Of course I did not take offence at your post and I certainly did not mean to attack yours. I think you've found a great resource here that can help you with your decision. And it sounds like you have a good grasp on the issues that matter most to you. Good luck with your decision! :clap

[jayjay]

Thanks oh so much to all of you for your posts and especially to you Barry. It's ashame you're in Wellington as we're thinking of basing ourselves in Auckland. :( Haha I know what you mean about the card playing Italian oldies it's a completely different generation and what they remember about Italy doesn't exist anymore either. Or maybe it does down South, and yes the food is wonderful, and also there's a quality Italians have of not being ashamed, I can't really explain this one, it's a cultural thing, they're not ashamed to ask questions about things in general and express themselves, feelings etc etc, whereas I've found Kiwis, Ozzies and the English seem to leave so many things unsaid because you are brought up with these tabus like "you don't ask those questions", or "you don't say this or that", oh it's hard to explain but Italians don't have this block and I do like this and have learnt from my husband to be more communicative and to question things more. So hmmm I know the way I listed everything it seems all black but there will be things that I will yearn for once in NZ I'm sure and this does scare me.

And yes I have noticed the housing prices especially in Auckland and it is ridiculous! Really unbelieveable! Is there any explanation for the huge housing increase in NZ? I just can't believe that even an ex-council house can cost 4 to 5000000. What's going on here?

As Barry says it's kind of the same in Rome. However if looking to buy of course you have to look outside of Rome and for 230,000 Euros you can get a little townhouse number. Nearer Rome you won't be looking at anything less than €330000 upwards just for an apartment.

I just can't understand this housing trend in NZ? REALLY over priced for I must say some reall c**p homes. WHy why why?????:confused

Barry un abbraccio a te da Roma e forza ;) non so da quanto tempo stai lì ma sicuramente tutto andrà sempre melgio. Ma Sky ce l'hanno lì?

[gil]

Se vuol' dire Sky TV, si, certo! Here in Auckland we had it installed the day we moved into the rental.

House prices here are crazy Marina, do you have any idea of which part of the place you would be heading to?

Key differences are the lack of corruption, I agree with Barry!

Also the culture. I really understand what you mean about the Italians feeling free-er to question. I'll never forget standing at a tram-stop in a part of Milan I didn't know very well, with my baby in my arms, and a couple coming to wait for the tram smiling at me and their first words were "Buon giorno Signora, l'allata lei?" ("Good morning, do you breast-feed?") :laugh

The scenery is comparable in beauty, but personally I far prefer being by the sea than in landlocked Milano. (Although admittedly, the lakes weren't too far away).

As I mentioned in my earlier post, we did consider Italia this time, but the language was always going to be a barrier for OH and the four kids, ditto for France. So, for us, it was partly the language that made it more straightforward to settle everyone more quickly.

The kids were asking only last week whether we'll be able to visit Italy again, so we all love the country. But to live permanently? Not for us.

Feel free to PM me if that would help, especially re Auckland!
Ciao ciao,
Gil

[willowshouse]

And yes I have noticed the housing prices especially in Auckland and it is ridiculous! Really unbelieveable! Is there any explanation for the huge housing increase in NZ? I just can't believe that even an ex-council house can cost 4 to 5000000. What's going on here?

As Barry says it's kind of the same in Rome. However if looking to buy of course you have to look outside of Rome and for 230,000 Euros you can get a little townhouse number. Nearer Rome you won't be looking at anything less than €330000 upwards just for an apartment.

I just can't understand this housing trend in NZ? REALLY over priced for I must say some reall c**p homes. WHy why why?????:confused



Just because they can get away with it I think!

Two sales in my area in the last month:

Meadowbank, Auckland .. 4 bed, 2 rec house on decent sized section, best house in not so good street, backing onto a large piece of land with development potential for high rise block, originally a 2 bed state house - sold at auction for $881,000

Glen Innes/Glendowie Border, Auckland .. 3 bed 2 rec house on decent sized section, ex state corner plot on MAIN road, very nicely done up - sold at auction for $736,000

Anything with the tiniest bit of land is going for WAY more money than expected .. townhouses with no land can still struggle to sell, and yet they are the houses that continue to be built .. go figure!