[Lupin]

I'm hoping this thread might be useful to those people outside of NZ on small incomes and wondering what life on a small income in NZ feels like. Most of the people I meet who emigrate here are on family incomes over the $50K mark with little or no mortgage. We fit a more typical Kiwi makeup in that our family income (after tax deductions and family tax credits) per annum is about $45K (can't be precise until next year as some of the income is variable) and we are soon to be carrying a mortgage of $220K.

I just heard some of you wince at those figures :laugh

This gives a fortnightly take home of approx. $1730

- $720 rent (includes rates and water)
- $300 groceries (combination of pak n save, veg shed, health food shop, roadside sellers, weekly fish from work deal and Bin Inn and includes all groceries)
- $120 phone, broadband and electricity

This leaves a cool $590 per fortnight for EVERYTHING else. It's not much, it's not easy but it is doable. On this income you can't:

*Have sky
*Buy new clothes (we rely on relatives for the kids plus hand me downs, dh and I wear our clothes to the death and replace when needed)
*Buy books/dvd's/music (but that's what libraries and birthday's are for)
*Go on International holidays (we bought tickets to Oz to see relatives with the last of our GBP before the land sucked it all in)
*Buy new toys.
*Live like a tourist visiting all the pay-per-play/view/enjoy attractions.
*Buy anything on hire purchase (we bought our cars with our UK savings)
*Have a pony
*Keep your cool when the inlaws wreck the suspension on your car
*afford to say no to the offer of a BBQ etc :D

But you can:

*Have your children attend wonderful (IMO!) schools with sport and music opportunities they might not have enjoyed in the UK (if you were on a similar income)
*Have paradise-like beaches all to yourself
*torrent films and music
*Enjoy Kiwi hospitality
*Tramp to your hearts delight. Huts are cheap, day tramps cheaper.
*Enjoy cheap swimming pools
*Get a mortgage barefoot ;)

I'm not sure for how long we could manage on this sort of income but we know it's a medium term situation as our youngest starts school next year so I'll be in a position to train and contribute to the coffers and dh's income should make some small improvements when he's completed his recent course.

Anyway, those of you who are looking at similar financial situation here (we're a family of four), feel encouraged that you're not alone and it is possible to enjoy being here and feel you're the richer for being here, despite a lousy income. The key, I'm certain, is where you're starting point is and your perspective. We've been on a low income for years (dh a student and both of us passionately committed to having a stay-at-home parent) and so we long ago learned to count our wealth in a less conventional manner. HTH someone :cheers

[Cardy]

Very good post. We could do with cutting our shopping down ours is probably about $400 per week and we dont buy anything special. We bought our car with uk cash and its got to last a while.luckily i work in retail and can get lots of non food items at not much more than cost price which really helps. paint ,building stuffs, chemicals,plumbing and kitchen items etc.
Cardy

[Moorf]

Really well balanced post, I think it paints a very realistic picture :nice1

I'm afraid I still can't keep my shopping bills much below the $250/week mark and there's just 2 of us and we eat out...

[jubjub]

Lupin, I take my hat off to you. We have a mortgage of $210k, only one child, and a higher income, and we struggle some months!

You will feel like millionaires once you can work, and hubby gets a pay rise!

[ellenmelon]

*sigh*
one day i shall earn 45,000 dollars...

:D

[Lupin]

BTW, the costings are per fortnight.

Ellenmelon....pray you don't have to support four on it when you do!

Cardy....$400 per week!!! I thought I was a foodie!

We eat very well on that budget but I make cakes and scones, buy nothing organic, prepare fresh, water down fruit juice and when we run out we do without until the following week, but if you came for supper you'd never know it :D

eta: also we often gather things, for example when I did some cleaning at Playcentre last week the girls gathered feijoa, walnuts and tomatoes.

[andreamatt]

Inspiring post - thanks Lupin. Good luck with the house move / purchase,

Andrea

[katandbob]

*sigh*
one day i shall earn 45,000 dollars...


;) yes you may, funny it seems a lot of money when you say it in one go, and it is good for one wage - but you have to remember that Lupin's family of 4 are living on that.

I know that we would be on the same amount if there was just Rob working, but with Jason being grown almost, I can work - although this does mean I technically do 2 jobs (I just don't get paid for the Housework;) )

So what little time we have at the weekends means that we don't get to do much exploring at the minute (Lupin you may find this too - once you own your house - then the DIY starts:laugh ) Oh I am beginning to hope the light at the end of the DIY tunnel is here soon!:laugh

I think that Lupins observations are correct - we manage about the same, its fine by budgeting, but have to save for those extra things, I haven't bought a book since we arrived, or CDs/DVDs - theres the radio and You can rent DVDs quite cheaply with the special offers I get with the free ads and stuff.

NZTV has enough programs on to keep me entertained 6 days out of 7 - leaving Thursdays for catching up with the stuff I recorded - LOL

But I the one thing that does happen slowly is that you realise that the Material things that were so important to you in the UK diminish and the free things - such as a spectacular sunrise - misty morning view of deer in the paddocks on the way to work... replace the frequent shopping desires of old!

oh and realising the mortgage is going down slowly, a bit at a time!

Kat

[Moorf]

But I the one thing that does happen slowly is that you realise that the Material things that were so important to you in the UK diminish and the free things - such as a spectacular sunrise - misty morning view of deer in the paddocks on the way to work... replace the frequent shopping desires of old!

Yes! Glad someone else feels that way, I always feel a bit flower-power when I say it :o but it's so true.

[kanatakiwi]

Thanks for that. Its good to read a well balanced post. I too cannot put a price on my view over the harbour, beach and parkland. I just want to add that I have saved heaps of money by buying on Trade Me, we have pretty much furnished our house this way and got some amazing deals. We dont buy much new these days, and we had to do extensive renos to our house, so got lots of doors, wood, bathroom stuff, etc there as well. ( and if you decided you dont like it you can always sell it again on Trade me!

[nippa&pippa]

Lupin, Glad I am not only one! You can do it....I think it is mainly down to years of experiences from University onward, knowing how to budget, also you have to stop and think do we really need this while doing shopping. I have notice most kiwi's house aren't cluttering with lots of stuff because they haven't got lots money to buy everything.
Next week I will be blow bit of budget on girl's night out! My early mother's day present!! (My OH forgot last year's, so make it two years' worth of mother's day present :nice1 )

[incredible hulse]

Good post Lupin - I only wish we could get our food and electric bills down to those levels :wah An interesting thing I read though which I often wonder is how people mention not doing the things in the UK, ie; having to camp rather than holiday, etc and wonder what it is that stops people doing these things in the UK ? Is it just the novelty factor of the new environment or is it the huge move forcing a mindset change ? The reason I mention it is because we are currently assessing whether our lifestyle has improved in NZ and whether we will stay or return and obviously being able to do the things we enjoy is part of that. We are thinking that a lot of the things we are enjoying in NZ (mainly exploring new places, etc) are part of the honeymoon period and once this (and our UK money!) is over will NZ be a better or worse alternative to the UK. I guess we were lucky that we lived in a nice area in the UK and had the great scenery and countryside that the UK offers accessible to us, we lived comfortably and had much better jobs that NZ is offering us so it's not any easy decision

[Trigirl]

each time we have this discussion i'm amazed by how much food bills vary. it seems to be the single most variable thing even among families with the same number of people.

an average weekly food shop (just the 2 of us) costs $150-$160 if I do it at the supermarket and $110-$120 if I bother to go to the market, butchers and supermarket.

i am always amazed how much difference it makes especially going to the market. as an example this week broccoli is $2.50 in New World and $1 - $1.50 depending on which stall you go to in the market.

[kelpy]

Yes! Glad someone else feels that way, I always feel a bit flower-power when I say it :o but it's so true.

Moorf, personally I can't wait for this! :o

[Park City Partner]

Funny you mention Broccoli...that is the one thing that I noticed has the greatest variablitiy in price. I have seen it as high as $2.50 per head down to 49 cents! It is frankly amazing to me.

[ellenmelon]

i do know that 45,000 for a family of four is a bit of a stretch at the best of times...been there, done that with my family (with 6 of us! on a little less than that.dad had broken his back). glad you all took it as the light hearted comment that it was :)

[Sam B]

Reading this post makes me hang my head in shame, because we are so wasteful. I'm too ashamed to say how much we spend per week on food and eating out, and breakfasts in cafes and coffee etc etc, and our telecom bill this month was $262.97, $120 of this was broadband, $91 on calls (I have since switched to the plan that gives you 100 hours calls anywhere in world for $45 a month. Food is definitely our biggest thing, but I guess I also make other impulse purchases that I shouldn't. Less so than in the UK, but still..... deep shame.

[Moorf]

Yep, it does make you realise how much you actually do have...

[Lupin]

LOL, Sam, no need to hang your head in shame! No doubt if we had it, we'd spend it :laugh I adore eating out and going to cafe's etc

The point of this thread was not to inflict guilt on people with a greater income, it was meant as encouragement for anyone considering moving to NZ knowing they'll be living an average Kiwi lifestyle and wondering what that equates to.

Once our income improves enough to allow it I'll dump paknsave and be enjoying coffee out too :)

[willowshouse]

Reading this post makes me hang my head in shame, because we are so wasteful. I'm too ashamed to say how much we spend per week on food and eating out, and breakfasts in cafes and coffee etc etc, and our telecom bill this month was $262.97, $120 of this was broadband, $91 on calls (I have since switched to the plan that gives you 100 hours calls anywhere in world for $45 a month. Food is definitely our biggest thing, but I guess I also make other impulse purchases that I shouldn't. Less so than in the UK, but still..... deep shame.

Not wanting to make you feel worse Sam .. but have you considered buying a telephone card? Our Telecom bill is line rental and broadband only (but it doesn't cost $120) ... local calls are free, we use our mobiles to call mobiles and our international calls are made using a Chi-tel card. $50 gets you 40 + hours to UK (depending on time of day). If it makes you feel any better, we are quite wasteful on food and I spent $130 yesterday on flannelette sheets, wincyette pyjamas and pillows (brrr!)

Dawn

[katandbob]

Reading this post makes me hang my head in shame, because we are so wasteful. I'm too ashamed to say how much we spend per week on food and eating out, and breakfasts in cafes and coffee etc etc, and our telecom bill this month was $262.97, $120 of this was broadband, $91 on calls (I have since switched to the plan that gives you 100 hours calls anywhere in world for $45 a month. Food is definitely our biggest thing, but I guess I also make other impulse purchases that I shouldn't. Less so than in the UK, but still..... deep shame.

Yep me too, I didnt really spend much on calls, about $38 - $45 on calls - using the 0161 number, so I am trying it out, and if I dont use that much - you just give 30 days notice and you can change back.

Kat

[jen]

I'll be curious to see where our food costs level out at - I've been tracking it for 3 months & it's steadily going down as we restock our pantry and have less of those moments where you go to reach for something and realize you haven't bought it in NZ yet!

There's two of us and monthy food budget's gone from $575 to $500 to $400 so far this month (probably another $50 will add on by the end of it). Our 'dining out' expenses have gone down too (not posting that, too scary :uhoh) as we face the impact of all welly's wonderful restaurants on our waistlines. We have a separate category that is for OH's coffees/scones at work (seems very Wellington that most of his office meetings are at some nearby cafe over coffee) and my flat white addiction.

Definitely agree that the more shopping stops you're willing to make, the lower the cost - I do a big shop at Pak n Save/Woolworths every week, and will stop at New World for deals from their weekly flyer (the Island Bay one is small & expensive so otherwise I avoid it), farmer's market maybe 2x/month to stock up on super-cheap produce and Moore Wilson's the same.

Sorry this is so long - guess I'm a food budget geek :laugh. I've been putting every single thing I spend into a quicken budget for years (since marriage have coerced my OH into saving all his receipts and putting them by my computer). Used to do it out of dire necessity from when I had a low-paying job and high california rent, then mortgage; nowdays more out of not wanting to waste money on things that aren't that important.

Jen

[Singel]

For 2 of us, our food budget is $600 per month (including $120 for alcohol:D and $100 for eating out). I noticed when I buy everything from the supermarket, my food bill could easily gone up to $750 :no So nowadays, I buy from the local butcher, vegie shop and the Supermarket to keep it within my budget :nice1

[jess]

I looked over our checking for April to date and we spent $617 on food (both groceries and dining out). I doubt we'll have to go back out for groceries before the end of the month so that's pretty much it. --- That's buying mainly some fish for OH and lots of fresh veggies, milk, fresh bread, pasta & sauce, free range eggs, good cheese, Cadbury muesli bars, ginger ale, etc... (No meat and no alcohol). Ordered out only once this month - a pizza.

I feel like about $620/month - $680 if we eat out a little more, say twice at the asian place - buys us plenty. Then again it's just two of us.

Throwing our numbers in in case it's helpful.

By the way excellent, balanced post Lupin, full of lots of good info. :)

[Caniwi]

I find this thread interesting. As a Kiwi who has immigrated to Canada, with the intention of "immigrating" back soon, I have to keep reminding myself that when you choose to live in another country, (and for all of us who have done it, we are lucky to have had the opportunity to experience it), one must be prepared for things NOT to be like where we came from; be it NZ, the UK, the States or Canada. We have to realise that we should make the effort to make the adjustments required to live in the the country of our choosing, and if we are not prepared to do that, why choose it at all? I consider myself lucky to have lived in Canada where many things are abundant and relatively easy to obtain - but in the same breath, I'm looking forward to going back to NZ where live is far simpler and less "convenient". Many of us have become accustomed to convenience. If it is the material things in life that make us happy - are we really?

[clg]

Biggest thing I think is just learning to approach things like a Kiwi as Caniwi says, it takes a while and we are still learning after almost 2 years. We spend far less on many things now (though much more on cheese there are some really fantastic ones here!). I feel like we do far more good things on a day to day basis here. Though with a 11 week old we are not doing much of anything except longing for sleep these days.

I feel like my day to day life is much better here but my splurge ability has dropped quite a bit. But the thing is I don't really care that much because the splurges used to make up for the fact that on a day to day basis I was not very happy and needed the splurges to make up for that. Things do get easier in some ways as you stay here, my income has gone up and we get better about spending on things. We are happy but it is a big adjustment and you can't approach this as trying to replicate everything you are used to you have to be prepared to live differently.

Chris

[Patrick]

This is an interesting topic to me. I'm a budgetaholic at heart (and a math teacher to boot), so I like to crunch numbers all the time. When my wife, my daughter and I first came here in July 2006, my wife was of the opinion that we were giving up a lot of money, and she was right. But, I was positive I could save at least 10 000 per year here, which considering that we moved here solely for my daughter getting a better chance in life, was like icing on the cake of still having a house in my wife's country to go back to plus resources we were intent on not using no matter what. So, we set off in a rush once the job offer came in, and over the time we've been here and settling in and refining our expenses, we've come to the point where the following budget is what we spend each month:

Food: 550 (eating out once a week)
Utilities: 100 (with Mercury ... I'd recommend them to anyone wanting to save oney on electricity bills)
Phone/Internet: 120 (Line rental, broadband and international calls)
Rent: 1272 (water included)
Health/HouseContents /Car Insurance (for 2 cars): 300 (all with State/Sovereign)
Gas (for 2 cars): 250
Haircuts: 15
School costs for my daughter's kindy: 350
Misc.: 100

Total/month: 3060/month, or roughly 36 720/year


Other Budgeted Expenses per year

AA membership (for 2): 200
Car Regis (for 2 cars): 450
On Road Costs: 400
WOF (4 times a year for 2 cars): 200
Repairs to cars: 1500
Clothes: 1200
Misc.: 800

Expenses per year: 4750

Total Expenses per year = approx. 41 500

My Income/month: 3520, or 42250/year after tax
My wife's income per month: 13800/year after tax

Total income: 56 000 after tax

Saved money per year: roughly 15 000

In short, the saving idea worked, and we're doing okay. Now, that means no more holidays for us, but since we've never seen all parts of New Zealand and we've both travelled when we were younger, we can be happy with seeing NZ for the indefinite future whenever we have the craving to. We shop in markets and cheaper specialty shops, and spend roughly $120 per week. It helps we're both non-drinkers and non-smokers, and that we don't have too many friends given our jobs (both teachers at different levels). We spend way too much on gas, but considering we're both driving 5 times a week from Pukekohe to Papakura area, it's still pretty good mileage (needed to learn the farming road shortcuts to make it more economical). The loophole we use is to look for clothes through my wife's family back in asia, saving enormous amounts of money for the same clothes you'd see here in various stores. The Warehouse sweatshirt on sale for $10 is one we can buy for under $1 at the source in Taiwan or China. I met a mechanic who repairs and gives me rates on WOFs much cheaper than other places and also gives me mechanical insurance on cars he has personally gone over, so feel comfortable budgetting 1500 per year on repairs. We found stores which operate their own farms for produce and that offer cheaper prices by far than other supermarkets. We found a deal for renting a new house here in Puki with water included. In short, we spend the time doing the research to get to the point where we can accept the costs per month for us. We do "waste" money on insurance, but I feel that's necessary for peace of mind. Money can be saved here!!

[Caniwi]

We do acclimatise, it just takes a little time. I remember coming to Canada and almost cooking in the winter because all the houses are centrally heated. I'd get sick because I'd walk around in a T-Shirt anywhere in the house and absolutely freeze going outdoors, regardless of how many layers I put on. I was used to one room being heated and going to a cold bedroom at night with my electric blanket :p. I couldn't believe that no one had washing lines, and put all their clothes in the drier regardless of the day. (oh was I happy when we moved into a rental that has a washing line - sweet reminders of line dried clothes:o ) But I also couldn't believe after paying $90 a year for my car insurance, that in Vancouver I had to pay nearly $2000 :eek: Fortunately now I have ALL my possible discounts, but it's still sits at $1200 a year! And eating out here every other day, is a common occurence.......but now that I have a 40 minute commute (translating to a fill-up every 3 or four days) each way, it's far easier (and many times cheaper) to hit a resturant, than spend the "time" making dinner at 8 pm at night. My OH and I are really looking forward to getting back to basics......who knows, we may even start our own veggie garden (like my Mum used to do:yes )

[wiki]

We do acclimatise, it just takes a little time. I remember coming to Canada and almost cooking in the winter because all the houses are centrally heated. I'd get sick because I'd walk around in a T-Shirt anywhere in the house and absolutely freeze going outdoors, regardless of how many layers I put on. I was used to one room being heated and going to a cold bedroom at night with my electric blanket :p. I couldn't believe that no one had washing lines, and put all their clothes in the drier regardless of the day. (oh was I happy when we moved into a rental that has a washing line - sweet reminders of line dried clothes:o ) But I also couldn't believe after paying $90 a year for my car insurance, that in Vancouver I had to pay nearly $2000 :eek: Fortunately now I have ALL my possible discounts, but it's still sits at $1200 a year! And eating out here every other day, is a common occurence.......but now that I have a 40 minute commute (translating to a fill-up every 3 or four days) each way, it's far easier (and many times cheaper) to hit a resturant, than spend the "time" making dinner at 8 pm at night. My OH and I are really looking forward to getting back to basics......who knows, we may even start our own veggie garden (like my Mum used to do:yes )

Ditto on every point except for the eating out and the long commute. I still wander around the house in t-shirt and shorts the whole year round because of central heating. I've not seen some of my woolly jerseys since I went to Finland for Christmas two years ago lol. I live only 4 miles from work so commuting is easy, but I used to drive 35 miles along the M62 for a year and every single trip I used to think "?" because coming from Invercargill it was the equivalent of driving past Gore.

[Caniwi]

I used to drive 35 miles along the M62 for a year and every single trip I used to think "?" because coming from Invercargill it was the equivalent of driving past Gore.


LOL, me too......I keep thinking I could be half way to CHCH - from Timaru. :laugh

[stu70]

I looked over our checking for April to date and we spent $617 on food (both groceries and dining out). I doubt we'll have to go back out for groceries before the end of the month so that's pretty much it. --- That's buying mainly some fish for OH and lots of fresh veggies, milk, fresh bread, pasta & sauce, free range eggs, good cheese, Cadbury muesli bars, ginger ale, etc... (No meat and no alcohol). Ordered out only once this month - a pizza.

I feel like about $620/month - $680 if we eat out a little more, say twice at the asian place - buys us plenty. Then again it's just two of us.

Throwing our numbers in in case it's helpful.

By the way excellent, balanced post Lupin, full of lots of good info. :)
Thanks so much for the post. Your numbers will be great help, we have similar eating habits. Regards,

[Ana&Steve]

Just want to thank Lupin for starting this thread, and everyone else for keeping it going! Very useful info, I'm taking notes.:nice1
Ana

[Trigirl]

british householders throw away 1/3rd of the food they buy...
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/lifestyle/article2366513.ece

[katandbob]

british householders throw away 1/3rd of the food they buy...
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/lifestyle/article2366513.ece

I don't chuck anything - meal scraps end up being Chook food :laugh

unfortunatley I did a lot of shopping this weekend -

$180 - Jason toe - podiatrist (Ouch for my purse and Jasons poor toe!)
$99 - Mitre 10 - Wood basket and fire cleaner
$360 - Wood - to finish stables for the horses in winter
$148 - for food at countdown
$50 - for food at Pac N Save
$60 - petrol for car.
oh and $15 on lotto ticket!........... FINGERS CROSSED

None of these were extravagences - and I got specials on most food.

Rob will be pleased when the stables are finally finished as he will have his weekend to himself:laugh well it is cheaper than a fairdinkum shed!

I have a price for my curtains too - $459 if I bought the material yesterday -
$369 if I go on monday night - they have a one day special - so I said see you monday!:laugh now I got a price for store made curtains - $3,000!

so you see - although Its taking a long time to get our home sorted - I am doing it on a budget and saving first not using a credit card - Which is something I wouldnt have done in the UK!

and when everything is finished - hopefully we will be able to go out for a meal or two:cheers

Kat

[Lupin]

so you see - although Its taking a long time to get our home sorted - I am doing it on a budget and saving first not using a credit card - Which is something I wouldnt have done in the UK!

Good on you Kat :)