[Lupin]

When you get the blue stickers? When you get the permit? When you get a mortgage? When your children declare themselves to be one? When you get on the plane? When you decide you're here forever? After x number of years?

It's interesting I think. I was chatting to a not-so-happy in NZ British Ex-pat the other evening and he made a comment about NZers being very proud of what little (!) history they had and before I had a chance to think I responded by correcting him and saying we. He thought the idea of him being a Kiwi was funny, despite the fact that he owns a home here , has two kids in Kiwi schools, etc, etc. He declared himself British through and through.

I ask my kids and they earnestly declare they're Kiwi (the four year old follows the enthusiastic nine year old's lead), my husband says he's Kiwi because despite only having lived here for a quarter of a year he owns land here, has citizenship and Kiwi genes and would like to stay here forever. I pondered it for quite a while as I do feel Kiwi, but my think-links are not. I know so little of NZ history, culture, geography and politics and sometimes feel quite alien here so I'm not sure I really think of myself as Kiwi....yet.

Are you a Kiwi? If so when did you become one? If not, could you envisage becoming one and at what point?

[wiki]

After 10 years in the UK the only time I refer to myself as British is when I talke about soccer and say "we" to comment on the English football team - and that's only because NZ has no soccer pedigree to be proud of :exit

According to my passport I'm as British as anyone born here, but in my heart I'm a Kiwi through-and-through and always will be - even if I lived here for 30 years.

But I think that reflects on me being 22 when I left NZ. Three of my siblings were born in the UK but left when they were all under-five and none of them consider themselves British.

[jubjub]

Hmmm, thats a hard one, I think it creeps up on you, and when we recently went away, I referred to here as home, not the UK. You also find yourself talking differently, picking up phrases and sayings from your new kiwi pals, and its now rare they catch me out with something! Although cough lollies caught hubby out at the weekend when he went for cough sweets (or cough drops as they are in Glasgow!)

I dont think I will ever call myself a kiwi as such, but I feel pretty much integrated into life here, so feel a member of the NZ society.

I was thinking of a comparison between being married, or just living together, no real different in commitment in most cases, but there is a piece of paper with marriage, maybe difference between PR and taking citizenship? Not sure what I am trying to say with that really!

OK, that was a ramble, hopefully it makes a bit of sense!

[nippa&pippa]

This questions had been covered before, here http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1295

For me, I will be british even I am jamaica-born :exit
For my children will be kiwi as they won't remember UK like me don't remember jamaica.
The baby i am expecting will be kiwi :clap .

[Lupin]

Thanks, that thread was really interesting. I couldn't be done with reading it all but managed a few pages. I thought this quote the most interesting

i agree that we will always be british and also in the eyes of kiwis always british how ever long we are here

because I have found nothing to be further from the truth; Kiwi's like Aussies seem to accept their immigrants as NZ citizens much earlier than I think the British in Britain do. My mother (emigrating to Oz) says she will no doubt be an Oz to the Aussies as soon as she lands as has noticed that is she is more likely to be asked "how long have you been an Australian?" there as an immigrant whereas in Britain you are likely to be asked "where are you from?". Perhaps the fact that most Kiwi's are only a couple of generations Kiwi at best and therefore have more flexible notions of citizenship. I don't know, but it is interesting. Sorry to have posted on something that has already been discussed to death! I'll check before I post again :o

[Leccy-Lee]

Just out of curiousity and a side note...

When do you start to pick up the kiwi accent and lingo (if at all?)
I now i been on holidayto USA for a month once and without even noticing it i came home with a slight american twang if only for day or so.
So have you got a NZ accent yet? If so when did you pick it up and also how soon did you pick up the local lingo etc.

;)

[dharder]

I don't anticipate to become a Kiwi at all. I've lived in England for 10 years now, but rather than British (which I am according to my passport), I think I would only go as far as describing myself as a Londoner.

It'll be interesting to see what the children will make out of the whole thing, they've been born here and have so far only lived here. As opposed to me, though, they will move to NZ with NZ passports, and officially be Kiwis already, so I expect it may be easier for them.

As far as accents go, I always pick those up really quickly, even if I don't want to. I think that is partly because English is my second language, so I don't really have such an 'ingrained' accent to begin with.

When I lived in the States, I had a US accent, I now have a British one, and am sure it won't take too long before I start saying 'heaps' instead of 'lots' all the time, and no one will be able to tell if I'm talking about pigs or (clothes-)pegs anymore. :)

Daniela

[Jenny & Mark]

Just out of curiousity and a side note...

When do you start to pick up the kiwi accent and lingo (if at all?)
I now i been on holidayto USA for a month once and without even noticing it i came home with a slight american twang if only for day or so.
So have you got a NZ accent yet? If so when did you pick it up and also how soon did you pick up the local lingo etc.

;)

I've heard that the accent you have in your mid- to late twenties will tend to be your accent for life; although I really hope mine will change - not that I am ashamed of it - it would just make me more Kiwi.

Cheers, Mark.

[stu70]

The feelings of belonging are all about our experiences. For some who flee their homeland even under duress, the home they left behind remains their identity. So it will really boil down to how your mind feels about your new association with this adopted land. Do you feel "connected" to the new place? Do you feel like you are now "home"? If the answers are yes then no matter what your accent or the time you have spent in the new environment, you will feel a "local". Buying property or raising families alone will not bring you any closer to feeling like you are one though.

[Ana&Steve]

Steve and I feel that since we want to go to NZ and call it home, we will make every effort to become Kiwi. Not to say we won't have pride in where we came from or what we've accomplished. I think one of the biggest reasons we have this mentality is because of the problems SoCal faces every day with illegal (and legal) immigration, and the aggressive attitudes towards Americans the immigrants show. When I patronize a business in the States, I don't want to be treated poorly just because I'm American.
If one comes to a country with the intention of gaining something for oneself and one's family, one should respect the country's culture and people. (even if in your heart you still consider yourself your first nationality)
BTW, this is just my opinion, and not a criticism of ANYONE! Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts.:)
As to when to consider yourself a Kiwi, I'd say it's when you decide you are; it can happen at any time during the process!:nice1

[Lupin]

I think you've got to the nub of it there stu70. As I lay in bed last night I pondered why some people feel they'll never be a Kiwi or why they feel Kiwi's will never accept them as such. My husband came home from work with a surfboard given to him by a Kiwi last night and when I asked him he replied that of course he's a Kiwi and he gets very annoyed at being referred to as an ex-pat. For him, becoming a Kiwi happens when you wish it to and I guess that's pretty much what you're saying stu70.

As for accent, I have a theory about that.....when I ask locals how to pronounce something I carefully copy them, accent and all and I find myself Kiwi-ising my name so that I don't need to repeat myself many times. I also adopt an accent for telephone calls to Kiwi's because they can then understand me better. I like expressions such as "good as gold" and "she'll be right"; they amuse me so I use them. My nine year old attends a school with no other kids from the UK and although I don't yet hear much of an accent at home, when she's with her friends it's there! Lastly, I know a few dissatisfied poms here who are considering heading home and they tend to mix mainly or solely with ex-pats, refer to themselves as such, despair of pronouncing local place-names etc. They actively resist becoming Kiwi, so perhaps they can't be surprised when Kiwi's don't consider them Kiwi.

Off to read the rest of that interesting thread on the subject now :)

[jen]

I hope I pick up (or can do a decent impression of) the kiwi accent soonish because I'm already sick of being asked how I'm enjoying my holiday and where am I from ("Island Bay" is OH's current answer, or "Wellington! Really!!" if we're out of town :laugh).

Jen

[Anita & Marco]

It is indeed a hard one.
First of all - I emigrated after over 40 years of living in one country, so it will be hard to just 'turn around'.
Secondly, people in nz always ask me during our first meeting: where are you from? And my answer: 'from wellington', but the second question is always, but where do you come from?
So, how could I feel being a kiwi?

On the other hand, I do not mind being regarded as an immigrant, since I am. And this is an immigrant-country after all.

Does this make sense?

Anita

[incredible hulse]

Personally I think of myself as English and suspect I will until I die. I hope I am integrating into and respectful of NZ but I suspect I'll always be a foreigner; and I'm fine by that. Too much history for me to give it up that quickly

[Sam B]

I lived in England for the 1st 35 years of my life and I will always think of myself as English I think, but this doesn't mean I don't want to integrate well, it's just I really can't see myself suddenly thinking of myself as a different nationality. I can't see myself picking up the accent, but I sometimes have to put it on when I'm formally assessing small children. The language assessment I use has pictures of bears in it, but when I say "bear" they don't understand me, I have to say "point to the beer".

I also keep catching myself putting "eh" after my statements.

[jen]

I just sold my first thing on Trademe - suddenly I feel MUCH more like a kiwi :laugh

Seriously, I have no idea - I can see feeling like a "Wellingtonian" after a few years if we decide we're settled & going to stay here but as far as feeling like a kiwi as opposed to American who knows?

I've always been interested in following politics so I think once I start voting/go for citizenship & have a stake in what the government is doing, that will make me feel like I'm a part of NZ.

Jen

[Lupin]

I can't see myself picking up the accent, but I sometimes have to put it on when I'm formally assessing small children. The language assessment I use has pictures of bears in it, but when I say "bear" they don't understand me, I have to say "point to the beer".

I do that at playcentre with little kids and also when on the phone I have kiwised my name so that it's not misspelt.

[Trigirl]

by the way jen - i checked the voting thing after we discussed it a while back and you definitely are entitled to vote straight away. the having been a resident for one year is only for if you are a permanent resident but not actually currently living in NZ

[Anita & Marco]

Hi Mandy,

You are eligible to vote in NZ when you are a Permanent Resident and live in NZ for at least one year - after living here a year you even receive a form from the Election Office that you are obliged to fill in.

You are not eligible to vote before that time as far as my information goes that I received from the Elections Office.

Cheers,
Anita

[barryp]

Yes, the rule specifically says that you are eligible for enrolment if "You have lived in New Zealand for more than one year continuously at some point." (direct quotation)

I also emailed the registrar asking for clarification: would taking a week's holiday in Sydney, say, reset the one-year clock? Struck me as silly. But the answer from the registrar was:

***

Thank you for your email. You are correct in saying that it is a continuous
year and once you leave the country for any period of time (even for the day)
the one year will be reset.

If you have any further queries, please contact our helpline on 0800 36 76 56.

***

[Trigirl]

i've checked the legislation and it does say one year. which clears it up. though i'm still confused why i got such a different answer from them. i'm now illegally registered on their specific instructions. great.

anyway - please feel free to ignore me :roll

[JCM]

In my heart I don't think I'll ever be a Kiwi - I was born British and, although I've now got NZ citizenship, I'll always think of myself as British. BUT I prefer living in New Zealand.

I was thinking about Norman Tebbit's "cricket test" the other day though and I've realised that, without any key moment, I’ve become a New Zealand cricket supporter and I’ll support them against everyone, even England. So maybe - in a small way - I have become a Kiwi.

[liamnrach]

I know a few dissatisfied poms here who are considering heading home and they tend to mix mainly or solely with ex-pats, refer to themselves as such, despair of pronouncing local place-names etc. They actively resist becoming Kiwi, so perhaps they can't be surprised when Kiwi's don't consider them Kiwi.

Off to read the rest of that interesting thread on the subject now :)

I think you hit the nail on the head there Lupin77. In a seperate thread yesterday I mentioned the need to fully integrate into the community, in so much as having ex-pat friends as well as Kiwi friends (or whatever nationality pertinent to the country which is hosting you). Rach and I have only just started out on our long journey to move to NZ and look forward to the move with such excitement.:nice1

Personally, I do not quite know what being British is anymore? I concur with other peoples opinions that we will never truely be Kiwi's. But, if you embrace their history, culture and appreciate their way of life, I firmly believe this will endear oneself to the Kiwi's. I for one will be supporting all things NZ (including sports events against England) and will embrace all that NZ has on offer. Whilst never forgetting my roots, I will be proud to be accepted as a Kiwi: My children will most certainly be Kiwi's......

A bit of a disclaimer.....these are only MY opinions, and I mean no offence to anyone reading them:o

Liam

[swissmissdesigner]

I agree with Ana:
"to consider yourself a Kiwi, I'd say it's when you decide you are .."

[dharder]

I agree with Ana:
"to consider yourself a Kiwi, I'd say it's when you decide you are .."

Granted, I've not done a representative survey, but the New Zealanders I asked found the idea to think that someone can become a Kiwi as an adult funny.

Daniela

[Ana&Steve]

Granted, I've not done a representative survey, but the New Zealanders I asked found the idea to think that someone can become a Kiwi as an adult funny.

DanielaI've met Kiwis that think it's insane that anyone would want to move to NZ at all...especially when we tell them we live in San Diego.:confused:
I like how benevolent Kiwi incredulity can be though, can't be bothered with it for long, and no harsh words. (so far!)
Ana

[akp713]

This thread has been dead a good long while but I really wanted to add my two cents anyway. When I lived in NZ I never would have considered myself a Kiwi as I was only there temporarily, just six months. But I did consider myself to be an Aucklander. I know the rest of the country and just about every tourist I met had no love for the city, but for alf a year it was home to me and I honestly thought it to be the most beautiful city I'd ever been to. If somebody asked where I was from I proudly said Auckland, even when I was visiting Wellington.

I remember once I was up at St. Heliers looking back at Mission Bay and out at Rangitoto and everyone else at the look-out was a tourist except for this one Maori guy. He looked over and, as I was barefoot in board shorts, he assumed that I was a Kiwi and he said, "Don't we live in a beautiful city mate?" So I responded in my best Kiwi accent, "Sweet as, mate." I wasn't a Kiwi, but I was an Aucklander and for that time it was my city too.