[liamnrach]

Hiya to all reading this post:nice1

I have recently been searching for second hand cars (trademe.co.nz and dealership websites) and notice that diesel cars seem to be somewhat sparce:(

I am wondering why? On our last visit to NZ, diesel seemed to be cheaper than unleaded so from a financial point of view (well at least fuel consumption versus cost at the pumps), diesel would still seem to make sense.

Does anyone know if there are more taxes/additional charges for those people with diesel cars in NZ? Or indeed any other financial implications for diesel owners?

I like the Volkswagen Bora (I have a 1.9TDI here in the UK), but when I did a search for a similar model, I could only find petrol equivalents. I had trouble locating diesel models for other makes too.

Can anyone shed any light?:o

Cheers

Liam

[JoanneG]

Yes, there is a surcharge on diesel cars. I suppose you could call it a 'green tax'.

My OH found out about it - I think it's charged per mile.

I'm sure someone on the forum will have more precise details.

[wiki]

Diesel is cheaper because instead of the road user levy being included in the price of the fuel, you have to pay it seperately - and it's this extra bit of hassle that makes petrol cars more common in NZ.

For a diesel car you need to get a road user licence from a Post Shop or the AA. You can buy them in 1,000km lots and you need to buy another 1,000km before you've run out of the first 1,000km. You can also buy several thousand at once, but I don't think you can get a refund or transfer them to another vehicle.

At present, the 1,000km block costs about $32. - Also be careful if you're buying a diesel second hand because if the present owner hasn't paid for the kilometers they've driven then you as new owner becomes liable for the short fall...

[liamnrach]

Thanks for the info guys....

From what you have said, it would appear that the easiest thing to do is buy a petrol car! As I recall, the difference in prices isn't that big anyway....

I always fancied the 2.3L V5 Bora....now is my chance:raebanana Hee Hee

Thanks Again....

Liam:nice1

[IanW99]

If you want any more details regarding the Road User Charges then the following link might be useful?

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/38.html

Ian

[able]

Also be careful if you're buying a diesel second hand because if the present owner hasn't paid for the kilometers they've driven then you as new owner becomes liable for the short fall...

Does this mean there's an even greater incentive in NZ for sellers to "clock" diesel vehicles?

[liamnrach]

If you want any more details regarding the Road User Charges then the following link might be useful?

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/factsheets/38.html

Ian


Ian

Cheers fella. Really good info....

Liam:nice1

[wiki]

Does this mean there's an even greater incentive in NZ for sellers to "clock" diesel vehicles?

The incentive may be there, but I've not heard of it being a specific problem.

[james the mechanic]

Hi Guys,
Due to WOF (MoT) every six months on most cars in NZ, it would mean clocking the car twice a year. With more and more cars having digital dashes making clocking impossible without a PC, software and the right leads/dongle I doubt the problem is that prolific.
However on a clocking note, it is a massive problem on cars imported from Japan to NZ (& the UK), normally between shipping and registration in NZ.
Caveat emptor!
James

[benandclare]

Got a Kiwi lad just started working on our farm and he tells me that when he left, last week, that petrol was 1.6 NZD/l and diesel was1NZD/l and in his opinion diesel would be cheaper option to run, but still cant make up my mind whether to take ours:(

[IanW99]

If you are thinking of bringing a diesel car then a few things I would check

1) Can I replace it new in NZ for less? In my experience many new cars are cheaper here than in the UK especially when you factor in the shipping costs.

2) Will it be able to cope with the quality of diesel sold in NZ? Don't know how true this is but I have been told that the diesel sold here is of a very low grade compared to other countries e.g. UK.

3) Is my car available in NZ for ease of parts / servicing?

It may suprise someone from the UK but diesel cars are just not common in NZ yet. For example, Ford make some great common rail diesel models in the EU but don't sell any of them in NZ? I have to wonder if it is due to the diesel quality or just market forces?

BTW, if someone decides to work out the costs for diesel compared to petrol that would be really useful?

Ian

[liamnrach]

Got a Kiwi lad just started working on our farm and he tells me that when he left, last week, that petrol was 1.6 NZD/l and diesel was1NZD/l and in his opinion diesel would be cheaper option to run, but still cant make up my mind whether to take ours:(

Ben and Clare

If that is true, then this represents a significant difference. I know there is a need to purchase a road user licence (currently $32 per 1000km), as mentioned earlier in the post. I'm hopeless at math, but if you factor this cost and associate it with the difference between petrol/diesel prices, then it may well be worth while having a diesel car. I suppose one of the reasons why people dont bother with them is the need to keep purchasing the road user licences every 1000km!!

But IanW99 did raise a valid point: If the diesel is sub-standard in NZ then this might create difficulties and ultimately damage to a UK diesel car?

One to ponder for a while I think:p We are visiting in Feb 08, so I will do a little of my own investigation then as to the availability of diesel cars in NZ....

Cheers:nice1

Liam

[wiki]

One to ponder for a while I think:p We are visiting in Feb 08, so I will do a little of my own investigation then as to the availability of diesel cars in NZ....

Cheers:nice1

Liam

Better check mechanics too - fewer cars means fewer mechanics have much practise working on diesels. Servicing would be ok, but identifying more complex faults might be problematic.

[liamnrach]

Better check mechanics too - fewer cars means fewer mechanics have much practise working on diesels. Servicing would be ok, but identifying more complex faults might be problematic.

Cheers Wiki....good thinking!!:nice1

Liam

[benandclare]

But IanW99 did raise a valid point: If the diesel is sub-standard in NZ then this might create difficulties and ultimately damage to a UK diesel car?


Yes thinking may well sell cars here and buy out there, lot less hassle and stress for the move:yes

Ben

[IanW99]

As you seem to be concentrating on the diesel quality being a potential issue, I thought I would investigate this a bit further to see how true it is.

Found the following link which certainly confirms that the quality wasn't any good:-

http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/publications/ruralbulletin/august-01/aug-2001-03.htm

Here's a quote from it
Since the regulations were first issued in 1988, there have been developments in engine technologies, innovations in refining petrol and diesel, and changes in international petroleum standards - which haven't necessarily been matched by changes in the regulations. Any new regulations would aim to ensure that consumers can access petrol and diesel that complies with up-to-date quality, safety and environmental standards, as well as ensuring that we have fuel that suits modern engine technologies.

This was raised in 2001, don't know if the quality has improved yet but it does at least look like they are trying.

[StuckInLA]

Latest prices are $1.54 for petrol, $1.04 for diesel. I arrived last week and will be buying a car in the next few days, and I'm also interested in diesel, so I did some quick calculations. Kepp in mins that not only does diesel cost less per liter, but diesel cars also generally get more kilometers per liter of fuel consumed.

Small Petrol Car, 17.6 kilometers per liter (40 mpg) at a cost of $1.54 per liter equals $0.088 per kilometer.

Small diesel car, 21.1 kilometers per liter (48 mpg) at a cost of $1.04 per liter plus the surcharge of $0.032 per kilometer totals $0.081 per kilometer for diesel.

So there is not a large difference in fuel costs when one considers both the diesel fuel tax, current prices, and better kilometers per liter in diesel vehicles.

[IanW99]

Thanks for that StuckInLa, been meaning to work it out for ages now.

I assume that there is not a particular reason for saying 'small car' other that estimated miles per gallon.

For the Road User charges, which range did you choose (how many Kms did you assume to pay for)?

I assume that you didn't take into account the time, energy etc for having to go and pay the RUC (the inconvenience) - not sure how you would work this out, but looks like it would reduce any benefits even further.

Looks like it explains why diesel cars aren't as popular here as they are in Europe.

Ian

[aggelon]

You can pay RUC online

[xanctus]

All I am hoping that one day they wiped out that RUC thing. So I can just get used diesel cars :D:D:D

[Nick88]

I used to own a diesel here in NZ, but have changed to petrol. The running costs were not a big enough incentive to put up with a noisier car that cost alot more to get serviced. There are alot of used diesels here, but they are mostly jap import commercial vehicles (ie estate cars with terrible fold flat back seats).

The quality of the diesel fuel here is apparently the same as third world countries like India. There are very high levels of sulphur permitted (removing it makes the fuel more expensive) and this has a tendency to clog the catalytic converters in modern EU cars. This has kept the real cutting edge diesels from Europe out of the NZ market. The fuel specs are getting better, but I don't know if they are good enough yet to run the newer engines.

[xanctus]

Oh good to know that Nick.
I had a VW golf diesel when I was in US and the diesel quality 2/3 years ago was not as good as european diesels, therefore my engine was clogged and since then giving me frequent other funny things and I had to sell it.

[james the mechanic]

‘Dodgy third world diesel?’ ‘Noisy engines?’ ‘Costly to service?’ & lets not forget ‘frequent other funny things?’ What are you guys on about? I must interject.:no
Diesel fuel destined for road use in NZ, conforms to the petroleum Products Specifications Regulations 2002. The sulphur content of diesel is no more than 50 ppm (parts per million), down from 500 ppm previously. The new lower sulphur diesel was introduced progressively from September 2005 to 1 January 2006 it is the only diesel available and also features, an increased cetane index (burning quality).
In short, NZ diesel fuel now meets with the same standard s as it does in Europe, so forget about the third world.
The majority of late generation turbo diesels will return much better economy than the suggested 48 mpg. Re-sale prices for used diesels should be better than their petrol equivalents, and overall servicing costs will almost certainly be lower.
Yes granted the diesels of yesteryear were noisy, smelly and woefully under powered, but if you believe this still to be the case, you're ether driving a Nissan Serena 2.0d or are quite mad.
The late generation common rail diesels with variable vain turbo such as the VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat PD engines return fantastic economy combined with amazing performance and reliability plus very low noise levels.
With regular servicing they are good for hundreds of thousands of miles and I have first hand experience, as I drive a Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi that’s now done 301,000 miles on the original engine without fault and still returns 50mpg+.
I think the advice Ian gave re availability of parts/ servicing is probably very important to bear in mind if importing a car into NZ. Some brands are not well supported in NZ, for example the Peugeot Hdi is an excellent engine, however I’ve yet to see a Peugeot dealer in NZ, and thus a Peugeot would probably not be worth the investment.
Q: Would I own and drive a late model turbo diesel in NZ?
A: Absolutely
James

[Nick88]

Apparently the fuel specs are now good enough, I stand corrected.

[The Hodges]

I am sure people will correct me if I am wrong, but I have got the impression that, to get the fuel efficiency, Japanese cars are mainly electric or hybrid and they haven't really got in to the diesel motors. This obviously doesn't hold true for the 4x4s and SUVs, but I'm trying to generalise for cars here.

It is left to the european and american car manufacturers, such as VW (which own Seat, Scoda, Audi), GM (Holden aka Opel & Vauxhall), BMW etc. to make cars with diesel engines.

As european models are more desireable in NZ, they are much more expensive. If you want a cheap diesel car, you'll have to go for a older model or upgrade to a 4x4 or SUV.

In fact if you search for diesel cars on trademe, they're pretty expensive.

Also, with regard to the RUC, it's all about taxes. I don't understand why they don't just add it to the fuel and then the government can collect it from the petrol companies...

[Nick88]

I had a jap import diesel when I first arrived, and it was rough. The Europeans do make much better diesels, but they are not usually available as cheap secondhand imports. This does make them more expensive to buy in the first place, in my case more than the tiny savings on fuel could compensate for.

At the risk of showing some prejudice, I have a dislike for French cars. My family have owned two in the past and the build quality has been disappointing in both cases. Plus the cost of parts and servicing can be considerably higher, unless you are in a metropolitan area that has a dealership.

[davehunter]

Diesel is cheaper if you are doing the Kms, Also you have to take into account the running out of fuel thing, diesels will go further so it might mean less walking with a petrol can. Diesels are just catching on here, as most people prefer v8/v6s petrol, but they are becoming expensive to run. bear in mind if you buy a car in NZ, you may be stuck with it for a long time, as it can be difficult to sell. so buy wisely. What you think might be an idea car in the UK market, might not be the the ideal car to sell in NZ.
Dave

[SteveR]

also dont forget your rego (road fund licence) is about $100 more for a diesel vehicle than a petrol + the road user charges

[Super_BQ]

I may of missed this point but part of the reason why deisel cars aren't so popular in the consumer market is because of the NZ road tax that users pay per / km driven. When registering, you also have to buy so many KMS you will drive (so many cents / km rated). I don't know the current rates yet but if you factor this cost, the savings isn't that great.

Japanese cars are mainly electric or hybrid and they haven't really got in to the diesel motors.

Do you mean diesel electric hybrid cars? If so, the real reason is diesel engines do not like to be start and stopped several times a day in running short trips in town. It is a for sure way to kill your diesel car if you don't routinely let the motor fully warm up to temperature after each trip.

Until manufacturers can find a way where diesels motors can have the short duty cycle of a gas/petro engine, I don't expect to see them in a hybrid/electric version any time soon.

Is diesel motors more expensive to maintain? Well that all depends if the motor breaks down. Diesel repair costs are at least 2 - 3 times more than gas/petro motors. Go price out a diesel fuel pump vs. petro fuel pump and you will know what I mean.

[james the mechanic]

Sorry Super BQ but that may be your own personal experience but it's certainly not the norm, or fact as you portray it.
Your diesel engine is basically, less likely to break down in the first place as it actually has less components to go wrong in the first place, It has no ignition system for a start, eliminating the majority of mis-fires and damp starting problems.
In general petrol and diesel fuel pumps are not comparable the traditional diesel pump is a high pressure fuel distribution unit. A petrol fuel pump operates at comparatively low pressure and is not responsible for fuel distribution; a traditional diesel pump, is a precision engineered high pressure, calibrated component. Modern common rail diesels often employ a low pressure electric pump, that performs the duty of an old fashioned mechanical lift pump, however they also utilize a high pressure pump that supplies diesel to the ‘common rail’ of injectors.
In short, its just not a fair comparison, you may as well compare the price of a steering wheel to a road wheel, as they both share the same name.
Yes modern diesel engines have some horrendously expensive components and ancillary parts, but with regular servicing they are good of many km’s more trouble free motoring than their petrol equivalents.
Wise words from davehunter, me thinks, if you’re doing the km’s and keeping the car a long time diesel is cheaper.
James

[Nick88]

Most of the diesels in NZ roads are used Jap imports that are 8-10 years old and have done alot of urban driving. The japanese regard these cars as a disposable appliance so by the time they get here they usually need a few things looked at, eg. tune up, major service and perhaps injectors changed. All of these things seem to cost alot more with a diesel.
James, you obviously love diesels, and late model euro-diesels at that. These are comparatively expensive on the NZ market. For example the VW Passat TDi you mentioned is $10 000 more than a mid range Camry, that would pay for alot of petrol. Yes, if you do enormous mileage it would eventually be cheaper, but for the average kiwi doing local trips it is not worth it.

[IanW99]

Came across this article the other day, thought I would add it to the mix.

Tax cuts for small diesel cars on the cards (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=142&objectid=10431252)

It meant that although the Grande Punto used less fuel than any other vehicle in the rally, its total diesel and road-user charges bill of $121.37 was more than what the drivers of six thirstier cars paid for petrol.

Does show that at the moment, diesel (probably) isn't the best choice in NZ.

Ian

[xanctus]

So is that article saying that one day the Govt. will be eliminating those RUC thing over small diesel cars?

[IanW99]

So is that article saying that one day the Govt. will be eliminating those RUC thing over small diesel cars?

Hopefully they will one day, but not yet. The article is suggesting that the way RUC works should be altered so that fuel efficient cars don't get penalised so heavily.

The suggestion is that the RUC charging could be weight based so smaller lighter cars would not pay as much as heavier vehicles.

IMO it is a long way short of an ideal solution.

Ian

[Moorf Junior]

some really useful info here. We have a 1.9 turbo diesel Megane which i love as i plod daily along at 70mph on the M23/M25 returning 55mpg, i've thought about shipping it over, but i think we'll get a diesel 4x4 for a runabout and a Holden VT SS GTi V8 Turbo Supercharged bullet for the 'dry days' ;)

[incredible hulse]

Missed this one the first time round. I brought a diesel over from the UK (04 Volvo xc90) which I sold a couple of days ago. Never had any problems with the diesel over here, it was definitely cheaper than the petrol alternative even with RUC - a point to remember is RUC does not fluctuate with the oil price so in these times of increasing petrol/diesel prices it works out a lot cheaper. The other tip is not to buy the RUC in small chunks as you will end up paying the admin charge more often. I used to buy in 6000 miles blocks
The reason I believe there are less diesels over here is that the Japanese do not tend to buy diesels and as most cars on the road are Jap imports