[Croft]

The recent thread about 'poms' and continued coverage about the inegration of new immigrants in the UK got me thinking about a comment a German colleague of my wifes made the other week at a part we were attending.

Where we are currently station in London there is a huge multi-national contingent. He was saying that many of his German colleagues spent there time socialising amongst themselves, and complaining how much better Germany was (sound familiar??). Having had the benefit of a previous tour of duty in the UK, he said he was able to settle much more quickly this time. It wasn't the language that was the barrier, it was learning the culture, and the key to that he thought was learning the British sense of humour (again, sound familiar?).

His proudest achievement so far after 18 months back in the UK is that he is now attending his first part with a group of friends of which none of the others are German. He is not there "as a German", but because he has a circle of British friends now in the UK. He feels he has inegrated.

As a child growing up in an expatriate community, we really remained within that community, but we were moving every couple of years so never really had time to put down routes. I guess that will be different once we move permanently to NZ.

My question is, do people find they tend to mix with others of their own nationality, or do they make a conscious decision to try and mix with Kiwis? As has previously been stated on this board you'll have a lot in common with other migrants so you may well mix with them more easily, but after a few yeaqrs do you find that you circle of friends more and more is exclusively Kiwi?

[willowshouse]

Well! I have made a friend with an english mum (in the school playground) who arrived here shortly after me .. and another kiwi mum has commented on how we are always talking together BUT .. there are other english mums there who I am not so friendly with AND I have made another good friend who is a kiwi SO .. I think it is important to take everyone on their own merits, you may find it easy to talk to someone in the same boat as you but as long as you don't ONLY seek those people out, then what's the harm!?

I do apologise for that being all in one sentence :roll

Dawn

[DSC]

I live in Germany. Initially I found that I kept to mixing with the ex-pat community, purely because it was what I was used to and I wasn't confident with the language and culture. As time has progressed however, I now socialise almost exclusively with Germans. Admittedly this has taken a few years, but the benefits are that I feel more confident in myself and my abilility to be able to intigrate freely into NZ.
It is easy to remain closeted within a community that you know, using a language that you know and not having to move outside of the 'Comfort Zone'. A little effort can pay dividends.

[nickydwuk]

Living in a part of the UK that has a large number of immigarnts from eastern europe and asia I have noticed how a majority of these immigrants tend to keep to their own nationality. Those of us who live near them find it difficult to communicate with them but I think it is also due to the language barrier. I also work with a lot of Filipino nurses and they tend to socialise together only - maybe it is due to the language or the different culture. Having experienced this, when we make the move we fully intend to make a real effort to mix with the kiwi's but it is only natural to seek out peopel who have had the same experiences as you and who can relate to things 'at home' as well. A healthy mix of both would be the ideal.

Easy to say - or write - but maybe not so easy to do in practice, especially if you are shy like my OH.

[liamnrach]

My question is, do people find they tend to mix with others of their own nationality, or do they make a conscious decision to try and mix with Kiwis? As has previously been stated on this board you'll have a lot in common with other migrants so you may well mix with them more easily, but after a few yeaqrs do you find that you circle of friends more and more is exclusively Kiwi?

Croft

I have been in the Armed Forces (RAF) for the past 22 years. I have lived in many overseas countries (Germany, Belguim, Netherlands, Cyprus to name but a few) and have always found it better to integrate into the community. In Germany for example, if you attempt to speak their language when ordering food or goods, they really appreciate the effort that you make (even if your German is very poor). Indeed it can often be the preamble to having a conversation and making friends, as most Germans speak very good English.

In Cyprus, we lived in hirings amoungst the National population in Limassol. We had a fantastic time and made some really good Cypriot friends. But, we were also part of the ex-pat community, so we had the best of both worlds.

So to answer your question I suspect that it would be advantageous to have Kiwi friends aswell as friends from your own community. I imagine befriending ex-pats on your arrival into a new country would make the transition easier as they have been 'through it' so to speak. Once you have settled, got jobs etc then you can branch out and attempt to integrate into the wider community.

Thats how I see it anyhow.....

Cheers

Liam

[dharder]

My question is, do people find they tend to mix with others of their own nationality, or do they make a conscious decision to try and mix with Kiwis?

At the moment, the people we know/talk to/socialise with are a mix of NZ, British and German, and I expect the mix to be similar once in Auckland. None of this is conscious, it is just the way our life works: I speak German with the children, so whenever another German person in the neighbourhood hears us, they talk to us, or they recognise our car as being German and start a conversation. My partner's friends from uni days are mainly New Zealanders, some German, many of them in German-NZ relationships, so there's both there. At my workplaces, people have been mainly British, and most of the children's parents we know are British. I have never considered it an achievement to be the only German somewhere, nor a failure not to be.

I think the problems start when you socialise exclusively with one group, which can easily give the impression that you don't consider the host population worth getting to know. Not learning the language is one part of it, shopping exclusively in places that have food from your home country, only watch television via satellite in your native language don't really give off the impression that you consider the host culture worth much.

Personally, I think it is very possible to integrate somewhere without having to give up anything, to keep the sense of what is 'you' and still be open to new customs and ways to deal with things.

Daniela

[wiki]

I agree with Daniela that who you socialise with is very dependent on the efforts you make.

I came to the UK in my 20s with a group of mates who went to London and lived, worked and socialised with other kiwis. I, on the other hand, went to Manchester and lived, worked and socialised with Brits and hardly ever saw another Kiwi unless I was down in London.

I'm glad I didn't go to a "typical" Kiwi enclave - if I'd stayed in London I don't think I would have got a "true" sense of what living in another country is like.

When anyone emigrates to NZ it's up to them to make friends and put themselves into situations where they can make friends of all nationalities - if that's what they want.

Having fellow Brits to compare notes with must be hugely comforting and helpful - but if it were me, I'd want to make an effort with Kiwis and immigrants from other nations if they happened to be around and were friendly enough back.

[Chiba]

I can't begin to tell you how much I'm looking forward to living in a country that sets out to attract immigrants, where English is one of the national languages, so I can read pretty much everything and chat to pretty much anyone, where there are so many cultural connections to the UK, be it HP sauce or Cricket, etc, etc.

Please give me PR NZIS, *please*!

[marcia]

We have a mix - but mainly Kiwis. As someone else said you have to take each person at face value, see if you have anything in common, you can't judge them by their nationality.

I personally hate to see 'ex-pats' groups, or people all grouping together in one area all of the same nationality. This is what a lot of Brits have complained about in the uk, for example how the Bradford area is overtaken with groups of Asians and Pakistani's.

Well I didn't like that in the uk so I don't want to replicate it here in NZ, by building up a group of 'poms'. In fact one estate agent totally put us of a house we were looking at when he said - 'oh you'll feel at home here - the neighbours there, there and there are all from the uk!!!' We made a very fast exit:exit

[granger]

It's easier to "instantly connect" with people from your home country. You can immeidately talk about things and they know EXACTLY what you mean with reference to "back home". It's easy enough to connect with Kiwis too though. It didn't take me too long to get on their wavelength - it's all about having experinences in common and the longer you're here the more you have in common to talk about and relate to.

[SarahEDH]

When I arrived in Wellington and began working in Petone, I didn't cross paths with other Americans, at all (except one coworker) for months. I had contact info for a couple of expat/American groups but chose not to join, just to see how things would go.

I felt comfortable with kiwis right away, but then . . . I was also very curious about them and have to admit I felt almost like I was doing field research in sociology, trying to mix in and adapt. I kind of think some of them may have found me a bit like a zoo exhibit myself, in those early days :laugh

[JoHnH]

Just a stray thought here from a Kiwi interested in this business of immigration and integration.
From experiences in my own family, it is noticeable how easily, quickly and seamlessly Kiwis who move to Australia (which they do in their hundreds of thousands) seem to integrate into life there - right down to acquiring the excruciating vowel sounds in a couple of years.
NZ may have developed its own distinctive culture, but it has always been to some extent the "small sister" to our bigger and noisier neighbour - the issue of NZ becoming a state of Australia has come up every ten years or so for ages.
Maybe (since on the statistics a number of you are likely to eventually become Aussies) you should partly be thinking of yourselves not so much as moving to NZ but simply as moving to the greener (and poorer) bit of "Down Under?"
Or, as earlier generations put it, going out to the colonies.
It's still a distinct part of the world, the Antipodes, the "English-speaking Dominions" in the South. Millions of your British forbears thought of it that way. Do you?

[Croft]

Or, as earlier generations put it, going out to the colonies.
It's still a distinct part of the world, the Antipodes, the "English-speaking Dominions" in the South. Millions of your British forbears thought of it that way. Do you?

A good point there JoHnH. I'm not sure how others feel but I guess it the historical links to the UK makes the decision easier for us to emigrate.