[Belmont Babes]

Hi everyone

Lovely pic Jade. The bigger the better. Let's hope there are more photos from us all soon. PLEEEAASEE! Oh I'm feeling so "out of it". I read all the threads but still don't feel part of it. I'm not even sure what I want anymore. Think I am losing the plot slowly. :roll
Please tell me I'm not the only one :wah

[peebles16]

Hey Nat
Not on your own at all it's really hard to stay positive :roll I had a good rant at the estate agent yesterday and that did help briefly but think the hardest part is we can do very little about it - I'm a bit of a control freak, did you guess :D
I'm also really sick of fretting about it constantly and have to tell ever second person I meet "no hasn't sold yet, yes market is slow and oh, yes it only takes one person to want it" - ggrrr!!

But that said here's hoping :D

Take care
Kx

[vixxann]

Jade - haven't been keeping up to date on here for a while so what a lovely surprise to read through and see your fantastic photo!!:nice1

I'm giving up for the rest of the year - going to concentrate on job, family and generally having a good time rather than stressing over not selling house. Its still up for sale (and we'll be changing agents at some point) but I'm not manic cleaning and going mental at the kids for making a mess anymore - I'm not expecting viewers until into New Year. NZ plans are definately still on (we're off to Expo at weekend) but I'm "re-adjusting my focus" so I don't go completely bonkers. :p

[Mickstim]

Not going to get my hopes up here but M was in the front mowing the lawn when a woman stopped outside and was looking at the house. Eventually she got out of the car and asked him if it was our house for sale (only a sign at the end of the cul de sac). He said it was and she had a quick look to see the size of the back garden and said she would be arranging a viewing very soon. She has sold a much bigger house about 15 miles away and wants to down size and to buy in our area.

I'm not going to get too excited but after 2 months of nothing at all it is nice to know there are still people out there looking!

Bx

[Silverwing86]

Hi Barb,

That is (potentially) great news :nice1, must indeed be a wonderful feeling to see some interest after the quiet summer months !

Will be keeping fingers and toes crossed for you that it turns out to be your long awaited buyer !

Good luck !
Silver

[holland]

ooooooooooooooo, Barb...keep us posted !!!!

J xx

[peebles16]

Very exciting Barb - got everything crossed for you! :)

[Tomsk]

I've just read some of this thread, and I'm pleased to see that we're not the only ones struggling to sell, and I'm delighted that some of you are selling successfully. Our house has been on the market for a mere 2 weeks, so I've nothing to complain of yet, but we've not had a single viewer yet! It's a little disheartening. Hubby has to go to NZ in Feb, job starts then and we've negotiated as many delays as we can, I'll be here with the children until the house sells, but I'm really not keen on any long separations.

[Mickstim]

Hi Kate

Welcome to this frustrating but friendly thread. There are indeed a lot of us in the same position and it's good to have other people to vent with! Where are you living now and what part of NZ are you going to?

Barb xx

[peebles16]

Well Fairy finally arrived up here after an extended stay in postbox somewhere I think?! Thanks very, very much to Dee and Jade :) Will pass it on just shortly and think Vicki is next so if you PM me details I can get that fairy back to work :)

Best of luck to all
Kx

[Andy-Dee]

We might beat the ENZ t-shirt thread for mileage covered by fairy. Keep it going - or should we start a separate thread?

I've a feeling we are going to hit a slow period over Nov / Dec / Jan but come Feb I'm realeasing the fairy magic.

Good Luck to Barb and everyone with the last few viewings of the season.

Dee

[Mickstim]

I suspect we are not going to hear from that woman again - if she was really interested she would presumably have contacted agents by now?

I spoke to out agent today and he suggested we 'go dark' over Nov/Dec i.e.stop all advertising and remove boards but he would keep us in a drawer in case any suitable people come along. Then in Jan he would re photograph and start a fresh advertising campaign. Apparently by law every house on the market is going to have to have a HIP by 31st December so we will have to do that anyway.

It's going to be a long cold winter methinks............. better buy that fairy some thermals.

Barbxx

[Belmont Babes]

Hi Kate - welcome to this thread. It certainly will help keep you going whilst waiting to sell.

Barb - the lady may still come back. Interesting about the HIPS. I was hoping we had got away with that one.

Vicki - please can I have my turn with the fairy after you? Let me know when you have finished with her and I will PM you my details.

Dee - did you ever get any details from my agents after calling them?

Is there anyone out there who has sold? I just feel as if no one is selling or buying.

All the best to all as always.

[vixxann]

Nat - will certainly let you know when she's been here and done her magic;)

We too have realised there's not much going to happen in next couple of months now but we are staying on the market just in case - I figure you just never know someone elses circumstances and when they want to look you want to be there to be seen. But I have today written in and give our official 7 days notice for crappy agents . We have new trendy agents (that use rightmove;) ) coming to take photos on Friday.

Otherwise - went to expo yesterday, topped up NZ levels for a bit longer:D
Job starts properly after half term, had a few days in school last week but looking forward to working again now (after all worry and torment!) The job is temp until end of March 08 so I feel ok about it after all (but still keeping quiet about NZ plans!)

Hope everyone else managing to hang on in there. Its difficult to live for today and plan for tomorrow knowing that tomorrow may not be until next year - if you catch my drift!

[Belmont Babes]

Vicki - congrats on the job. Well done. You are so right about "live for today, plan for tomorrow". Isn't it difficult? I am self employed and didn't do any mailings to promote business as thought I wouldn't be here, so, as a consequence I am not working or earning as much. It's nice not being as rushed but I could of continued and saved a little more money for NZ. I hope to see that blinkin fairy very soon. Did you have to do HIPS?

[Belmont Babes]

Congrats also on new agents etc. Good for you. My contract looks kind of open ended so not sure where I stand. Not sure that any other agents in the town are better though

[vixxann]

Did you have to do HIPS?

NO - if you are changing agents with no gap in marketing then you don't need to get HIPS done (but will do after 31st Dec)

[holland]

Oh gosh, don't know what to say to you all, other than it will happen, its just a horrible waiting game. Our buyers haven't signed yet, so we are still on tender hooks a bit.

I know this is a housing thread, but just thought I'd let you all know that I finish work on the 31st Oct, shippers packing 1st/2nd November, and house should be complete on the 5th November ...oh my goodness, less than 4 weeks now!!!!!!!!!

I am strangely as cool as a cucumber.....well as cool as I get!

J xx

[Andy-Dee]

Hi Nat
Recieved house details from your agent last friday - sorry its been a hectic weekend. I'll PM you the details.
D

[Mickstim]

Well done on the agent change and the job Vicki!

Jade - not long for you now. Let's hope they sign and everything goes through with no bother. Sure it will.

Still no word from potential viewer - but we have resigned ourselves to it being a quiet few months ahead.

It would be so good if someone did manage to sell, and give the rest of us some hope!

Barb xx

[holland]

OK...I started this house selling lark...

26, average size, long brown hair, calm and together...I AM NOW GREY, HAIRLESS, OVERWEIGHT ( off biscuits;) ) AND STRESSED!!!!!!!!!!

ok, I am being slightly silly, but AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, contrary to what we we're told last week, the position we are now in is:

(1) Purchaser is still waiting to see if one of the mortgage companies will lend money:mad: , HOWEVER, he reassures us that if they don't he has the funds anyway:uhoh
(2) Searches are not back for house
(3) They haven't signed

eeeeeeeee. its all fun and games!!

and for the final laugh of the evening..........they still think we are going to complete on the 5th November...thats a week and a half...now unless superman is going to come in and whip up some kind of minor miracle, I think there's more chance of me turning into a sausage!!!!!!!!!

I desperately hope I am eating my words and sausage in 2 weeks:yes

J xx

[speckythecky]

Sorry I have not been on for a while but the fairy must have got lost between cheshire and scotland and ended up in our garden for a while.
We have had an offer of close to what we thought it was worth before the agents got involved, but less than the asking price. The couple putting in the offer have no chain, have been finacially approved and want to move quickly. For some reason we accepted and are now waiting to hear what is happening.
Will try and update more regularly now I am working.:clap

[peebles16]

Speckthecky
Absolutely fantastic news - well done you :clap :clap
Now pass the good luck and positive vibes on to the rest of us and have some of these :raebanana :raebanana
Cheers
Karen

[Belmont Babes]

John - huge congrats to you. Glad it's all falling into place, give us all hope. Feel like I will be posting on here forever.

Jade - AAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH. They have got to do something in this country to stop this uncertainty selling in the UK. It really has got to change. It shouldn't be allowed to get to this stage. If he has the funds elsewhere why borrow? Did the solicitors seem worried? I still feel really positive for you anyway and I'm sure it will all work out. Keep us updated.
As for the hair loss....will save a fortune on haircuts :yes

[Lara Croft]

We've got a property that has been on the market all of 5 weeks, and already the estate agent has recommended to drop the price by £5k - that's a grand for each week!! We're not best pleased, as it suggests that the valuer didn't do a very good job in the first place!

We've only had one viewing so far, and they offered £25k below the asking price.... this is going to be a long haul.....

Jane

[holland]

yeaaahhhh John:clap :clap :raebanana :raebanana

Good Luck Jane sounds really positive that you have had an offer already, its definately a buyers market, we had to drop a great deal.

Posivibes to all

J xxxxx

PS- Nat....the solicitors are so 'airy fairy'....its not their future they are messing with, it's ours!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrr

Everyone seems positive...apart from us!

[SarahEDH]

Hi everybody, joining this thread as a seller, although prospects are grim -- house is in northern California. Will wait in line for the house fairy, no queue jumping here . . . as if there was any risk of that. Nice to read about the success stories as they happen.

cheers, S

http://www.serrano-fsbo.com/

[holland]

Hi Sarah, and welcome to this mad thread!!

J xx

[macuser]

Hi eveyone, congrats to those who have had offers and fingers crossed that everything falls into place and all your sales go through.

I'm here to have a moan if that's ok. Our house has been on the market 12 weeks, 3 viewings all of whom loved it BUT........1. hasn't sold their's yet. 2. went for something cheaper to do up, "just like ours"!! and 3. decided on a different town a little closer to his work.

Our sole agency is up now so we are going to get the house on with another agent too.

We've had the phonecall from the first agent asking if we'd consider a "price adjustment". My husband asked if they meant upwards? LOL.

I'm really worried our house won't sell because we need it to. It is a lovely house and if we weren't going to NZ we wouldn't be moving at all, we love it. I guess I've just got to keep thinking that hopefully someone else will too.

Moan over. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

Helen

[holland]

Helen,

You sound similar to most of us on here, in that we love our houses and wouldn't be moving unless we we're leaving the country!!! I know it is frustrating, but 12 weeks with 3 viewers is a really really good start. It shows me that you are priced about right if people are viewing.

We had to sell house to make NZ happen, and we did! It will all fall into place, someone will love it just like you do, but it may take some time...where is your house in the market....lower end, middle, top end??

I only ask as ours is at the middle to top end, and we we're told by the estate agent that we would probably only get 1 or 2 viewers and one of them will put an offer in, I just sat there thinking 'yeah right'....BUT we had 2 viewers and the second one put in an offer!

Keep your chin up...this thread is great for getting support xxx

Jade xxx

[Mickstim]

Hi everyone - Macuser & Sarah, welcome to the house selling saga. Where are you selling Macuser?

Jade- how very, very frustrating! Do you have the shipping organised for the 5th already? But even if you hadn't sold you were still going to go - remember you bought your tickets before that, so you are in a MUCH better position than you might have been (if you see what I mean)

John - I am very thrilled for you, and as I said on your other thread it makes a lie of the 'empty houses don't sell' line that our agents have been giving us, and also gives us all lots of hope.

Nothing happening here - woman who came by was clearly not really interested so we will keep on plodding.

Posivibes everyone!

Bxx

[Mickstim]

I take it all back. Well, not ALL of it - but woman who came by last Saturday has made an appointment to view this Saturday afternoon. I will be a cleaning and polishing dervish until then.

Now where is that fairy? I need her please!!

Bxx

[macuser]

Thanks Holland & Mickstim. We're selling in N. Yorks, or should I say hoping to sell!

Hx

[holland]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY I AM

ESTATE AGENT HAS RANG AND PURCHASER IS NOT HAPPY WITH SOMETHING ON SEARCHES AND IS GOING BACK TO SEE HIS SOLICITOR AND MAY PULL OUT...............I AM BLAZING.

HE DOESN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT IT USED TO BE 2 FLATS AND IT HAS BEEN CONVERTED....................................

IF YOU BOUGHT A BARN CONVERSION WOULD YOU BE CROSS COWS USED TO LIVE IN IT???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????

TENDER HOOKS, EVERY MINUTE FEELS LIKE AN HOUR

[Mickstim]

Oh Jade - that is impossible and ridiculous. What difference in the world does it make that it used to be 2 flats?? Do you think they are going to try to offer you a lower price? Do keep us posted - I'm thinking of you.

Barb
xx

[holland]

They can try and offer us a lower price...they will be disappointed. I am a bit calmer now...we have spoken to estate agent and solicitor time and time again, its just a waiting game. We have spoken to John Masons, and they have said if we need to cancel them coming next thurs/fri we need to let them know by midday on monday...so it is just deciding whether to take the risk or not...if we cancel after 12.00 it £250.00, and if they take our stuff and they pull out.......well, I can't even think of that right now..........just what we don't need.

J xx

[Georgebulldog]

Just wanted to let you know I have my fingers crossed for all of you.
I've just had the estate agent round today taking photos so I'm at the start of the nightmare,I'm hoping ours will sell quickley as there aren't too many on the market like ours & it's a good first time buyers house.
Anyway just remember it will all be worth it in the long run

[peebles16]

Oh Jade bless you must be going off your head with all this shenanigans. Thinking about you and am sure it'll work out.
Just remember to breathe!
Kx

P.S. Welcome to all the new house sellers too :D

[Belmont Babes]

A big hello to jane, helen, sarah, george. Wishing you loads of luck selling and hoping you don't have to hang around this thread for too long.

Jade - I am swearing out loud for you. I can't believe it. How dare they? That is absurd to not buy on those grounds. Please let us know asap.

[holland]

My day is just getting better, I have just got back from physio and look like a blinking mummy...............roll on tomorrow, and here's hoping for a better day...........Im keeping everything crossed.

[speckythecky]

Keep smiling Jade, it will work out OK in the end.
Not sure why the fact it used to be 2 flats is a problem

[Piper]

I read an article in The Sunday Times property section last weekend about how the most desirable properties in London at the moment are properties that have been flats in the past and have been turned back into houses...
Some people are making huge profits on doing exactly that - their buyers are happy that they don't have to wait for all the flats to come up for sale and then do the renovation work.

Also, my sister had the same waiting game with her buyer and the strange money availability thing... It all went through eventually, not without many tears from all the people in her chain though.

Try to keep thinking positive thoughts.

Piper

[holland]

Thanks everyone xx

[Sam B]

Thinking of you Jade - we've been in your situation and I really really sympathise. It's not all over in Britain until you've completed is it?

[M&J]

Finger crossed Jade, sending over positive vibes.

Well after our sale fell through our buyer has once again sold his property. So far so good as the new buyers are using the same solicitor as the bloke that messed us all around we are hopeful to complete on the 30th November. I hope it does as we have a unconditional offer on a property over here with a settlement date of 7th December!!!! I can't even think of the possibility of 3 mortgages!!! We do have some savings which we have already bought over as a back up!!

[vixxann]

OMG Jade what an absolute bummer - just what you do not need
got everything crossed that the idiot sorts himself out - if not do you know someone frightening you can send round - what an absolute *****
Do you think they do it because they know you're kind of to a deadline and they reckon you'll drop money cos you've no other choice??

[holland]

I am quite stubborn, and I would rather rearrange flight...which would probably cost more in the long run than reducing than give any more money off....if they try I will be soooo cross...I am prepared for it though, and I WILL NOT drop any further....why should I drop just because he doesn't like that it was two flats???

Todays the day.....fingers crossed xxxx

[holland]

OMG 3 weeks today and we'll be at the airport!

[cathgates]

I work at an estate agents, and have noticed over the last couple of weeks that the market is starting to pick up locally, slowly, (I live near Nottingham).

My house goes on the market in about 4 weeks. If you have or are putting your house on the market, DON'T tell the agents or prospective buyers that you are moving abroad, tell them anything, tell them you are moving just far enough away that you won't be needing any info about prospective properties from your estate agent. The market is still fragile, and if someone thinks you are desperate for a sale, they will try to knock your price down. Even though the agent is working for you, they will often suggest to a buyer, that they could get your house at a 'good price' - a lower commission is better than no commission in their eyes. I only work part time, so don't get commission. No one at work knows I am leaving, and won't untill after the house is sold for the above reason!!

I'm sure everyones house is beautiful, but you have to remember that you are not selling a house, you are selling a lifestyle. If you have a dining room, set the table! Best modern crockery that matches the decor, if you haven't got any, borrow or buy it for example. If you have ever watched 'house doctor', then remember it because it is true, people cannot imagine themselves in your house unless you show them how they will live in your house!!!

Good luck to all - but keep your cards firmly to your chest when selling your house!!

Cath X

[Belmont Babes]

Jade - I am thinking of you today. I have it all sooo crossed I cant move!

Cath - thanks for that. A little ray of hope I think.

M&J - Hoping it all goes through for you too

[Mickstim]

Jade - thinking of you too and will keep checking for news!

Cath - thanks for that, it confirms what we thought and we are just telling people we are putting our stuff in storage and going travelling! Glad to hear the market is picking up.

I am trying not to get too excited about the viewing tomorrow - but it is the first in about 2 months!

Barbxx

[Belmont Babes]

Barb- just been thinking of you frantically cleaning etc. Wishing you all the best for tomorrows viewing.

[holland]

Good Luck for viewing Barb xxx

Well, after numerous telephone conversations the upshot of it is that the guy has been refused his 4th remortgage so he is £21,000 short! We are reassured that he has the money and he still wants the house and says he has signed contracts but they aren't at his solicitors as yet, as his solicitor isn't there today!

So, I guess it is just a waiting game, I just hope he is being truthful about having the £21,000.....the good news is that he has to move in on the 5th, as people are renting his house out from the 5th, so they will have nowhere to live!!

To be continued.........Nat, untangle yourself, your fingers and toes will be just fine.

I have been sooo angry since yesterday I can't tell you, but there's nothing I can do and at least he now still wants it....just the slight problem of not having enough money now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for kind thoughts

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Mickstim]

Here's hoping he comes up with the dosh Jade, but sounds good so far. Hope you manage to have a good weekend and don't worry too much!

Bxx

[holland]

Yeah right!!!!!!!!!1 Packing up the house as its the only full day we have spare before the packers come.....i'll be packing it though probably thinking 'I hope we are not unpacking this in the uk, again!!!'

J xx

[lockstock]

Sorry guys -only just picked up on this thread after a long while away form it. What a nightmare Jade?!! I think something like that would have finished me off. I really hope it all unravels well for you. And to everyone else - positive vibes for the viewings.:nice1

[holland]

Thanks Lockstock

xxx

[Perksy]

Fingers crossed for you Jade. Not been on this thread for a while and last I looked it was all bananas for you. Good on you for digging in your heels - very courageous!!

This house selling lark is definitely the biggest worry. Got a letter from the estate agents to day showing that 764 people have looked at our property on Right Move in the last seven (1372 in the last 14 days). Sounds great doesn't it? Only 22 have gone into the details and of them no-one has booked a viewing. Feel so much better for that correspondence. Only one house in the village that was showing 'sold' and it's gone back to 'for sale'. What is that fairy doing?

Good luck all.

[Belmont Babes]

Jade - can't believe it. Let's pray it all gets sorted soon. I know you will let us know soon.

Good luck everyone :wah

[holland]

Will do, i'll keep you all posted! packing the house and cleaning today! Its all becoming a little real now...got a lovely card from work yesterday with some NZ dollars in....i'd never seen them before as we haven't change money yet as Exchange rate is so naff, and getting worse!
Good Luck for today Barb xx
J xx

[Mickstim]

We are soooooooo clean. You could eat off the bathroom floor, the cushions are plumped, M is vaccuuming up the vast piles of leaves in the garden, so now we have to sit on our hands and not make a mess for 2 hours!

And we just had another drive by - so maybe things really are picking up?

Hope some others get a viewing or 2 this weekend!

Bxx

[holland]

Are they coming at 2.00?

[Mickstim]

No - they are coming at 3.00! At least I won't have any housework to do for a few days now............

[holland]

Hey Barb...not long now, will be thinking of you at 3.00...I have a good feeling about this viewing!

J xx

[Mickstim]

Well - they stayed over 30 minutes and are definitely interested BUT last week she said she had sold her house and now she says she hasn't although she reckons houses in her street sell very fast, and she lives much closer to London where the market is a bit better. She said we have exactly the same taste and she loves the colour schemes and decor etc. and she will be contacting the agent.

So - we'll wait and see but I would feel much more excited if she was actually in a position to buy!!

Bxx

[holland]

Thats good news Barb, I'm keeping everything crossed for you xxx

[peebles16]

Got everything crossed for you Barb :D
Kx

[holland]

I wonder if it's offer day today Barb???? How fab would that be????

[peebles16]

Don't know if should post this here but we've been having a bit of a nightmare with Duncan's start date for work. Back when he accepted job in August we notionally said we'd be out in November as foolishly thought we'd have no probs selling the house :(
Now they want to know when we'll be out in November and we're at a loss. Like most folks all our spare cash is in the house any other savings we had have been spent on getting this far down the immigration process. Am at my wits end cos we can't lose this job but can't go if house isn't sold :wah Don't think I could go through all this again trying to find new job etc plus the job is fantastic for Dunc and so far they've been really, really helpful but rightly so want him to start
I know lots of us are in the same predictment and sorry for moaning but can just see it all slipping away :no :no
Anybody got any more tissues??
Kx

[Mickstim]

That's a tough one Karen. Have the company who offered him the job any idea at the moment that it could be a while until you get there? Maybe they will wait for him - but I know the problem is that you can't even give them an idea of how long that wait may have to be. I do hope you manage to resolve it and he gets to keep his job offer.

I'm not sure about getting an offer Jade - we already have 2 people who want to buy our house but can't, so really really (are you listening fairy???) would like an offer from someone who is actually in a position to buy!! I know - us and about a dozen other people on this thread. I'm hoping for a major boom in the market in the next month.

May we all be sold by Christmas!!!!

Bxx

[Belmont Babes]

Hi Karen

I could of written that! We are in the exact same position as you. Paul initially told prospective employers that it will be between Nov-Jan. House went on market in May so we figured it would give us good time to sort all things out. We too have all monies tied up in house and have spent £2K getting this far. The thought of starting all over again brings me out in a nasty rash:mad:

It isn't an option for us to rent out our home and it certainly isn't an option for Paul to go ahead without us as I can't afford to pay mortgage alone and NZ wages wouldn't cover it.

Total limbo land isn't it? How long will NZIS keep visa application pending do you think? Where are you in process?

[Andy-Dee]

December / January is the equivilent of the British summer break - so they may be more receptive to a later start date than you think. You need to talk to them and explain that due to the Northern Rock incident the entire housing market in the Uk is experiencing a slow down.
Ask them how flexible they are prepared to be and reiterate your commitment to them.
Cold comfort I know but hope it helps.
D

[peebles16]

Thanks folks
Just totally unprepared for problems selling the house - like the rest of us am sure! We've been keeping them up to date and just sent another email. Dunc is going to phone boss tonight and explain so fingers crossed they'll be flexible. The worst case scenario of losing the job offer that ITA and everything is based on is just too much to contemplate?? We would take a financial hit on the house if it meant we'd get there sooner but without viewers...
Nat - we've submitted ITA a couple of weeks ago with over 200 points and have case officer so just playing waiting game.

I really appreciate your good wishes and I know you folks are in the same boat so thanks for your replies. Here's hoping for a rush of sales before Christmas :D
Kx

[peebles16]

Just had a random viewing :D
Woman looking at house (very ugly house!?) along the road with open viewing session and came along to see our one on the off chance!
Only stayed for 20 minutes and still has to sell her own so not holding out much hope but still a viewing though :clap
Sending positive viewing vibes down the ether to you all
Kx

[Georgebulldog]

I'm sending you all good vibes & hope it ll sorts itself out.
I'm thinking that if we don't sell by January then maybe take a mortgage holiday, luckily we've been with the Nationwide for 2 years so are allowed up to 12 months, although interest still gets added but it's an option so we could leave here & after a year,well lets not go there yet