[Ana&Steve]

Hello everyone,
I hope to get some advice/feedback from you, as things aren't going well and I can no longer tell if we are deluding ourselves.
We don't quite qualify for the EOI, and so far job offers haven't come. We put our house on the market in Feb, and not one bite. We figured on selling up and moving anyway, then getting jobs and applying from NZ. We have now had to lower the price on the house a total of $30,000US, and if it sold at the asking price with no other payouts, (not likely in this market) we will only be left with a very modest sum. We do have stock options that we were planning on cashing in, but the stock market is pretty grim, as well. We have the cars to sell, which we are hoping will pay the lion's share of the container, but the way things are going, I'm afraid they will both catch on fire right before we hand over the keys! (yes, I'm being fatalistic and dramatic!) We have both gone numb, and are having difficulty focusing on our goals, and we are forgetting what is important to us. I can't determine whether we have hit a normal depression that we just need to pull ourselves out of, or if the universe is trying to tell us something. If it is, is it saying "throw in the towel" or "stop being a baby and try harder"?
I know many others must have been here, and I would like to hear what you did about it. Or, if I'm missing something that any of you see, please point it out to me!
Thanks,
Ana

[Oregonkiwi]

I can't determine whether we have hit a normal depression that we just need to pull ourselves out of

hi Ana,
yes, we've all been there I think. I had a much easier move than most (no house to sell, no container, moved into my parents' house in Auckland - doesn't get much cushier than that :o ) but I still had days when I wondered why. It's easy to get so caught up in the logistics and planning that you can't remember why you're doing all this.

The situation with your house sucks. Other people have been in that situation who hopefully can give you better advice than I can.

It helped me to focus on just one thing/goal. I visualized walking off the plane at Auckland Airport, and how great it was going to feel knowing that I wasn't just arriving for a 2 week vacation. Maybe there are people or a place in NZ you could focus on seeing again.

It might also help if you and Steve sit down together and make a list of the reasons why you wanted to move to NZ in the first place. Are those reasons still important to you? Do they outweigh the negatives? Is NOW the right time? Would a year from now be better? Or does the idea of NOT going fill you with despair? Only you can decide, but we're all here to support you. Hang in there!

Avril

[SarahEDH]

Hi Ana,

I wish I had something more helpful to say than "take the long term view", but that's what arises for me after reading your post and Avril's question "would a year from now be better". I don't think you have to choose between throwing in the towel right now and working yourselves even harder to make this happen. If you're doing everything you can, keep on doing it at a sane/healthy pace until something breaks loose. If the house sale or job takes longer than you'd hoped, at least you'll have had extra time to prepare for the move.

What I picked up from your post is a normal sense of frustration that you haven't seen results yet from all the work, planning, reccy efforts, etc. Very human reaction, completely understandable . . . don't be too hard on yourself --

Sarah

[Anita & Marco]

Hi Ana,
Yes, most of us have been through all or part of what you are describing - and some have gone through even worse hardship.

It is very hard work sometimes and indeed it is very important to focus. So, the list with reasons why you want to live in New Zealand would be a very good start. And then talk it through thoroughly together.

On the other hand, this does not give you a job or a visa - and the latter is what you are really after, when you want to move. I know you have done a lot of research already - far more than most of the people who are entering the country these days, so that is also a very good start.

However, also keep in mind that this country can be so beautiful and the people so nice but this does not bring you any food, so be careful on the financial side as well. Try to predict what you deem important in life and if you need financials for that, how much that needs to be.

But overall, what you are going through is I guess just 'normal' emigration-frustration-anxiety.

All the best and if you want some specific info or advice, drop me a PM.

Cheers,
Anita

[Ana&Steve]

Thanks for the kind words, gals! Yes, I think Steve and I should make hamburgers and sit on the porch with papers and pens and just write it all out.
We had an open house today since my above post, and a couple and their agent came back for a 2nd time and stayed for an hour. Our agent says this is a good sign, and TBH this is the most progress we've had in 4 months.
Steve and I have always managed to achieve our goals in the past, so we should be able to do anything we want, but either we've forgotten how hard an uphill battle is, or this is the hardest thing we've ever tried to do.
Thanks again for your responses, and I'll try to keep all your advice in mind as we work through the next few days.:nice1
Ana

[CjChris]

Ana,

I hope you do get an offer on your house soon. I know how frustrating that can be-last spring (over a year ago) I put my house on the market, and I had to drop the price drastically (nearly 40k) to sell it just before Christmas. It was quite a struggle, and it was extremely depressing!!

This whole process is very hard work...certainly an uphill battle and a bigger one than I imagined. Granted, we've nearly gotten through the paperwork nightmare (fingers crossed!) but every time I think of the logistics of movers, packing, getting 4 cats to NZ....geeze...I'm hemorrhaging money here! And getting tired thinking of all there is to do!!

...having said all that, I feel like NZ will be worth this hard work and preparation because let's face it, things in America aren't getting any better (and even when the new president takes over, how long do you think it will take him/her to make a dent in the mess things are in???)

So, hang in here, it's normal to feel anxious and down about it all when things seem to have stagnated, but I bet any minute now you'll hear good news about your house and/or job...keep trying. If you've always met your goals, then you'll meet this one, too!

Christine

[Sam B]

Hi Ana and Steve

So sorry things aren't going well for you.

Is the housing situation uniquely bad where you are, or is there more you could be doing to make your house stand out above the rest? There was a programme on British TV that took a house that had been on the market for ages and showed them how to turn it around. The houses usually had dated decor, bad kitchens, storage issues etc. and the programme focussed on putting excess clutter into storage and spending some money on updating the kitchen, bathroom and hiring some stylish furniture to sell the house.

I hope you are not feeling very offended by now, because your house may be gorgeous, I don't know, but if there are a few things you could do which would make it stand out and look really stylish, maybe it'd be worth the money?

The houses on the show always sold immediately for the full asking price afterwards.

[wanderingoregonian]

You're in our thoughts.. I think we've all had delays and moments of worry. In our case we arrived 2-3 years after we thought, and it actually worked out much better for us. I got the city and the job I wanted, plus a chance to hang out with friends/family back home before the move. Being from a lovely part of America, i had lots of doubts about why I'd even think of leaving it for NZ (particuarly when I was offer a job back home), but so far I'm very happy. Everytime my OH and i are out walking or on the bus, one of us pokes the other and whisphers "we're in NZ!" and still don't fully believe it!

I also agree that you really should think about your finacial goals... we're worse off financially, but happier. It also is very nice to have the luxury of keeping some savings back home to help you weather the currency fluctuations and to cover any flights back home that can be needed to cope with homesickness.

You'll have to figure out what works for you. I also seem to remember that you were thinking of wellington, feel free to PM if you have any questions about the location.

[swissmissdesigner]

Ana and Steven,
I am sorry that you feel lost at the moment. As many people mentioned above this is "normal". Oh well, I guess we just have to be patient.
About the house Sam B is right! As an architectural designer I deal with this kind of problem. People can't sell their homes because buyers aren’t attracted to an old style. Most of the time upgrading is the solution.
I don't know if that’s the case in your situation? You can upgrade your place for less by using Home Depot and Ikea and "Do it your self ".
My input could be that I am happy to consult both of you regarding a low remodeling issue. I could come see you after next week (I am doing my master in Landscaping at UCLA) and we can figure something out. Of course I won't charge you anything, it would be a pleasure to help you and meet you both.
warmest regards:

anna

[CjChris]

I could come see you after next week (I am doing my master in Landscaping at UCLA) and we can figure something out. Of course I won't charge you anything, it would be a pleasure to help you and meet you both.
warmest regards:

anna

Anna, that is the sweetest thing for you to offer :clap ...what a kind and generous spirit you have. This will be a great bit of help to Ana and Steven if it is needed!

:nice1

[Ana&Steve]

Hey Gals! Anna that is very sweet of you!
But I think I should elaborate a bit on our back story:o . Part of the reason we are in this dilemma is that we originally bought our house at a very good price in a very high market, as the house was NOT in good shape. Steve and I had no intention of leaving at the time, and everyone told us how much improvements raise the value of our home. Well Steve and I never seem to be able to do anything by half, so we took out a credit line and put $40k into the home. We did much of the work ourselves, and bartered tile work, but now we have beautiful hardwood floors, stainless steel and Maple kitchen w/Corian counters, and rich and colorful furnishing, paint and rugs.
So, the market stinks bigtime, and there is no chance to recoup our labors, as SD county is full of foreclosures and short-sales, and the buyers are going nuts with their demands. Apparently, it's currently common to give the buyers $10K towards closing costs, which is especially ridiculous to me as ours were $5500.
With all the foreclosures, the buyers think it's a bargain to buy a house i foreclosure at 10k less than ours that is a dump. I guess they aren't taking in the cost of remodeling, or they don't care if the house is a flea infested shack. (bitterness talking!)
I really should post pics of the house, I said I would months ago. Sam no offense taken at all, I never gave all the facts.:D
Thank you all sooooo much, it really helps to get support and feedback, and I need to remember to pay it forward!
Anna, if you will be in SD area, please shoot a PM. You may critique away, and I will absorb and appreciate, but more I would like to offer you hospitality and coffee!
Love,
Ana

[Ana&Steve]

OK, I'm finally putting up pics; please keep in mind these are the "rejects", the Realtor took the good ones!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/Front.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/TranquilandPrivate.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/housepics054.jpg

[Ana&Steve]

more...
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/bedroom.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/3rdRoom1.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/PurpleRoom.jpg

[Ana&Steve]

last batch!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/Kitchen2.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/Kitchen1.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g263/carlson523/DiningRoom.jpg

[Andy-Dee]

Gorgeous house Ana - keep the faith.

[swissmissdesigner]

Ana, your home looks beautiful!
Just remember we have a "slow down" in the real estate market in California and probably everywhere in else in the US too.
Actually at the end of the summer the market will pick up, due to schools starting and people are moving around..
I am sure you will sell it very soon, however maybe you have to lower the price. Sometimes changing brokers helps too.
In fact you could rent out your place temporary while you are moving to NZ.

I would love to meet you and thanks for the invitation I really appricate it..


keep in touch,

xoxo

anna

PS: "everything happening for a reason"

[jess]

Gorgeous house Ana and Steve! Really looks fabulous!! :clap


For us personally, we had to have enough savings to come out here and settle without resorting to a credit card. People come out and make it work with all kinds of bank balances, but I can only offer our own perspective. Buying a car and a washing machine and television, paying for the container, the PR costs, the plane tickets, the 2 weeks in a hostel, the dog in quarantine, the house downpayment... we paid for it using the profit from the sale of our home.

If as Anna said the market may pick up there in the fall, or even if you had to take your home off the market and wait for a better time to sell down the road, or for the stock market to pick up, or the exchange rate to improve, that's what my OH and I would have done to cover all these expenses without using a credit card. But I am financially a chicken. Some people are intrepid and could do it without the safety net, and have an ok time of it.

As Anita& Marco and you yourself said, you probably need to figure out what your own comfort level is and decide whether you fears are grounded or are just the standard jitters we all get. Either way it's only a matter of now or down the road before you come out and submit your EOI. With your lovely home, stocks and cars, and most importantly with the great attitude you've shown in your forum posts, I'm sure you can make it work! :yes

[jen]

Lovely house - everything looks in "move-in" new condition! I love that covered patio in back (the cat does too, I guess :) )

It took us over 5 months in the same miserable California market to sell a house, and it took lowering the price a lot. Try not to take it as a personal reflection on your house; I think home buyers are really pushing it after being on the 'losing side' for so many years, and to other people looking for an investment it's just business to try to lowball you.

At 5 months on market we were trying to decide whether to go ahead and move, renting out the house until it sold or taking it off the market for awhile so I understand about needing to rethink whether it's still economically/emotionally realistic to move. In our case, we had funds from me selling my pre-married life condo & we had our PR so if we hadn't found buyers by Dec 2006 we were going to go anyway.

I am with Jess on being a financial chicken (even more now that I've read so many threads from people who've moved here and struggle). What decided me to move regardless was thinking: Okay, what if we can't move. Do I feel: a) relieved that we can stop banging our heads against the wall and move on to another plan for the future or b) feel like NZ is still the most important thing even now that we can't sell the house. The answer was B, but I think it's a very important question to ask yourselves as circumstances change.

Well enough from me - everyone said what I would have better than I can, so you guys hang in there & have a big virtual hug from me! You did an amazing amount of prep work/research & with your determination things will work out well for you, even if it means changing plans for awhile (fingers crossed for a sale though!!)

Jen

[zardell]

What decided me to move regardless was thinking: Okay, what if we can't move. Do I feel: a) relieved that we can stop banging our heads against the wall and move on to another plan for the future or b) feel like NZ is still the most important thing even now that we can't sell the house. The answer was B, but I think it's a very important question to ask yourselves as circumstances change.
Jen



Excellent advice.........:clap


Should you have to change your plans for whatever reason, go with whatever feels right for you.

Julie

xx

PS.
Can't rep you Jen - it won't let me, so have one of these instead...:nice1 xx

[Nathan]

A&S,
In your situation, I'd go for a hike... and think in an uncluttered environment.
It's clear from what we've all seen on this forum that you're capable of acheiving what you choose. Go to NZ, .... or don't go to NZ. It's really your decision and if you decide down the road that you want to change your minds. that's fine, too.
Best wishes as you work your way through it.
Nathan

[Ana&Steve]

Hey Everybody, looks like I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours:roll , but I do want you all to know how much good it does to "hear" your support! Hugs all around!:D

Jen that cute little cat in the pic is Steve's Cat from Hell, she just looks cute to get you closer before she rips you up!

We feel better today, we did have a long talk and list making session, and we came up with a plan A,B,C,D, and E. (not fond of E). Today is Father's Day, so we spent some time with Steve's family; it's hard not to get cheered up by a 10 year old girl with a lisp reading you your favorite Shel Silverstein poems!;)
Hope all of you are doing great!
Ana

Pssst to M, thanks for the PM!

[Nathan]

... it's hard not to get cheered up by a 10 year old girl with a lisp reading you your favorite Shel Silverstein poems!;)


I hope she wasn't reading from "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book: A Primer for Tender Young Minds " !!!:D

[barryp]

Beams from here too. You guys were not only enthusiastic but had devoted a lot of energy to thinking through your desire to move, so are still in a good position to weigh alternative plans of action. (Let's hope for Plan A!)

The socal housing market is soft now. The traditional spring bounce was more of a thud this year, and inventory is very high. It's definitely a buyer's market and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. So patience is required and one way to seduce buyers is to have a fantastically beautiful, move-in-ready home. Which you sure have!

[Ana&Steve]

I hope she wasn't reading from "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book: A Primer for Tender Young Minds " !!!:DHa! No, it was "Where the Sidewalk Ends", and my fav is "Sara Silvia Cynthia Stout (would not take the garbage out)":)
Ana

[EngiNurse]

Ha! No, it was "Where the Sidewalk Ends", and my fav is "Sara Silvia Cynthia Stout (would not take the garbage out)":)
AnaI'm a big fan of Ickle Me, Pickle Me, Tickle Me Too.

Hang in there! One thing I've learned in my (short) 28 years is that things always seem to work out for the best. Hard to remember when things aren't going well, but it helps me to stay positive.

Cheers,
Grant

[Bruckner]

Ana,

Did you and/or Steve try to line up interviews on last your reccie? Is it possible to have one of you come back to try and get a job offer to help you qualify? I'm sure you've both discussed this, and if you did post about this I don't remember but it may be an option worth pursuing. I have my fingers crossed for you and hope that recent visit results in a sale. If you have to be flexible with timing and finances then do so. Just keep your eyes on the prize.

Emily

[auskiwi]

Ugh. The U.S property market does little to hurry along all our plans to get from there to NZ, does it? Our property (in Oregon) languished on the market for about 6 months before we finally sold it for SIXTY (!!!!) thousand less than our original asking price. By the end I was about ready to give it a away so we could just 'get on with it'. I hear and totally understand your frustration...hang in there.

Amy.

[Sam B]

So how TOTALLY wrong was I?!! Gorgeous house, perfect condition, I can't understand why you haven't had an offer, it MUST stand out from the crowd? Good luck guys, I'm sending lucky vibes...

[Ana&Steve]

Ana,

Did you and/or Steve try to line up interviews on last your reccie? Is it possible to have one of you come back to try and get a job offer to help you qualify? I'm sure you've both discussed this, and if you did post about this I don't remember but it may be an option worth pursuing. I have my fingers crossed for you and hope that recent visit results in a sale. If you have to be flexible with timing and finances then do so. Just keep your eyes on the prize.

EmilyHi Emily! He did go on 3 "real" interviews and 10 recruiter interviews. He even got a 2nd interview from one company. The feedback was all very positive, and was repeated at the IT get-togethers we went to and forum friends we met, that he should have no trouble finding a job once he's there to stay; unfortunately they just wouldn't take the risk on a visitor.:( We have discussed him going over early, and we may just do it if we have to!
Ana

[swissmissdesigner]

Any news with the property?
I just talked to broker and he said price are going up again here in Calabasas/Malibu area.

By the way I am done with my finals, yeahhhh!

cheers;
anna

[slw]

Ana,

My fingers are crossed for you and Steve. The housing market here in SoCal does stink at the moment. It was a fluke that I sold my 2-bedroom house "as is" to an acquaintance. And while I feel like I gave him a steal, but I probably would have sold it for the same price to an unknown party if I'd spent thousands of $$$ fixing it up.

I'd made up my mind that I was going to NZ, and I put a plan together. If I hadn't sold the house to the acquaintance, I'd would have priced it painfully low. It would've hurt and I would have barely broke even but at least it would cut the tie. :(

Could you afford to rent it out?

[Ana&Steve]

Any news with the property?
I just talked to broker and he said price are going up again here in Calabasas/Malibu area.

By the way I am done with my finals, yeahhhh!

cheers;
annaHey Anna, congrats on your finals, hope you aced 'em!:nice1
No big news from our front, still practicing patience! (not so good at it:roll )
Ana,

My fingers are crossed for you and Steve. The housing market here in SoCal does stink at the moment. It was a fluke that I sold my 2-bedroom house "as is" to an acquaintance. And while I feel like I gave him a steal, but I probably would have sold it for the same price to an unknown party if I'd spent thousands of $$$ fixing it up.

I'd made up my mind that I was going to NZ, and I put a plan together. If I hadn't sold the house to the acquaintance, I'd would have priced it painfully low. It would've hurt and I would have barely broke even but at least it would cut the tie. :(

Could you afford to rent it out?

Yep, in hindsight, we wouldn't have put so much into the house monetarily, though we did enjoy nursing it back to health!
We have 2 mortgages, and our payments are $900 over standard rent. That's with interest only payments at one fixed at a good rate and the smaller just entered a variable (can't refinance while on the market) We really tried to find a way to rent, but we can't see a way.:no
I hear you about the plan, up until a few weeks ago we were so sure of ourselves, but a combination of blows came along and shattered our thoughts, which scares me that my resolve can be shaken so quickly. We are recovering, and trying to find focus again!

Thanks for the continued support, everyone, it really is a bright spot in a gloomy situation!
Ana

[slw]

I understand about the payment vs. rent issue - had the same deal here. Would have loved to just rent it out to have a backup plan but I couldn't have afforded the payment - and that was with a low interest fixed loan (circa 2004 rates).

Hang in there. Sending good, hopeful thoughts your way. :)

[tiefchord]

Interest only.. yikes.

May I ask what plan E entails, btw? If you entered into the California housing market - be prepared to sit long term if you want to recoup your investments. Otherwise plan on taking a loss. With the current market, there is very little fundamental way to have both a profit from the house and the ability to move quickly. They're mutually exclusive. Buyers are demanding more - they've been crapped on for quite a while now - so it doesn't quite come as a surprise. SD is about the worst market in California as it stands due to it's largely vaporous expansion and the reactive contraction you're currently involved in. The only feasible way to come out with a significant amount of post-sale funds available is to *wait* or be very lucky.

[swissmissdesigner]

Interest only.. yikes. :D

Nothing wrong about having an interest only plan!
Depending on your goals!