[skibumwa]

Please watch this video clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqxmPjB0WSs) and then consider your future life in the USA. Watch the video with a grain of salt. This post is not meant to be an anti-Bush post as I am an Independent voter and think for myself. :yes

I am waiting for the NZ immigration process to pan itself out for me; namely the medical review process. I asked myself last year these questions:

1) What good is a higher salary if my real quality of life is lacking?
2) What good is a higher salary if my government is not looking out for my best interests?
3) Would I take a cut in salary to live in wonderful clean safe place with friendly people all around me? (for me that's Wellington, NZ)

From one American to another, I hope you make the choice to stick it through the process to migrate to NZ or any other worthwhile country. Good luck to everyone...

John

[Ana&Steve]

John, these thoughts have been a large part of our motivation, and we seriously hope that we can make choices to improve our lives. Actually, we've made the choices, I hope we are implementing our plans in the best way to ensure success.
Ana

[srivett]

Being anti-Bush and an independent voter are one and the same thing, imho :p

I'm north of the US border, but I still couldn't agree more. It's tragic that such a large percentage of Americans disagree with the decisions made on their behalf by their government, to the point where they prefer to move countries. To think it's necessary to disassociate yourself from current-day America in order to feel more American... that's just messed up. The US used to be such a beacon of goodwill, democracy and civil liberty. Now it's just the next in a long line of failing empires, watching its population start to flee.

Am I ever glad I'm southwardbound.

[EngiNurse]

Meh. Bush is a lame duck. The campaign for the next Presidency has already started. While I find the current crop of candidates from both parties wholly uninteresting, any of the likely winners will be an improvement.

As with most things, American politics is cyclical, swinging from good to mediocre to bad and back again. We've bottomed and are turning around, IMO.

[skibumwa]

I love being an American very much and will never give up my US Passport, but the America of today represents more like a Hitler Nazi empire way. I guess in time I will be going the dual citizenship route. :yes

9/11 gave our country a chance to be friends with everyone; everyone had sympathy for us. The US leadership failed that simple task. Our leadership here did the opposite; they made enemies of everyone; even most Canadians and Brits don't like Americans anymore.

I have more reasons to move from the USA that just G.W. Bush, but one thing that bothers me deeply is that my tax dollars are funding these unlawful and morally wrong activities that our President has put into place.

When I visited NZ 9 weeks ago, and felt the friendly vibe in the air and a REAL sense of "home" when I was 8000 miles from my current home. It's more than moving from G.W. Bush country, it's a feeling a having a real balance in my life. I am interesting in making money, but would gladly sacrifice 20% increase in pay to live the kind of lifestyle I have dreamed out that exists in New Zealand.

We all are here in this forum because we are trying to better each of our lives. We share a peaceful bond that should be the world's standard, however sad to say it is not. Thanks for the great responses to my original post here. Keep them coming... :nice1

John
Seattle, WA

[Howie]

I was very happy to leave the US and couldn't understand why my like minded American friends weren't just as eager to leave. But it was easy for me because I'm not American. Then it occured to me that the more difficult thing for my American friends was to stay and try to change things to make their country a better place.

I think my point is just that to stay or to leave, it's a personal choice and whatever the decision, the important thing is just to be aware of what's going on and then make your own decision that feels right to you.

[JoHnH]

Hi. Interested Kiwi here, rather rudely butting in on your thread. Just tell me to sod off if you want.
John mentions a "wonderful clean safe place with friendly people all around me," which is pretty much standard for most intending immigrants, but I guess politics is also part of life - it can't be good for one to have one's blood pressure shoot up every time you open a newspaper.
Our political system is rather different from the US one in some ways. (Not so different for those coming from the UK, perhaps.) I'm just wondering, do you read up on it as part of your preparation, is it a factor influencing your decision, or do you just assume it to be reasonable?
May be wrong, but I don't think you have to be a citizen to vote here, just a resident.

[JasonS]

For us the factor to move was several things, mostly personal reasons, along with displeasure with social and political factors. However, I find it peculiar that anyone would go through all of this work and stress to move soley because of the current president however. After the re-election, there were articles in the paper about so many Americans wanting to move to Canada because of GW.

Anyhow, I've spent the last 2 years reading NZ news online almost daily and keeping up with the goings on. The hubbub about the National Party leader, the auction of Helen's beehive drawing, the power being shutoff at the sick woman's home, housing prices, concerns about immigration, the rising dollar, power issues, drought, etc. These are glimpses of the daily life, the issues and concerns of the country. I've read about the MMP system to better understand it and see how it can affect just how things are (or aren't) accomplished in the country. This, to me, is an essential part of making an informed decision. The benefit of doing all this as well is that I expect it will help us better integrate into the country too, instead of coming with absolutely no idea of what's going on and thinking that everything revolves around US politics and happenings.

Jason

[barryp]

I was going to post something more direct - there's PLENTY of rubbish politics and opportunism in NZ; tis far from a political Utopia. (Comes without nukes and a huge military apparatus, but still is composed of people after all.)

The most recent example is that the PM so conveniently 'bumped into' the Dalai Lama overseas before his trip to NZ, so she had a perfect excuse not to meet him in her official capacity on NZ soil. (Needless to say, this was the least accidental 'bump' in history, a masterful bit of scheduling and weasel-politico suckup to the Chinese government.) There are plenty of other recent examples - I'm not singling out the PM at all.

I find relief in watching the Bush regime wind down from afar, and it *is* safer here by any measure I can imagine than in the USA. There are also plenty of opportunities for migrants to change their lives for the better.

(Though frankly I'd be happier if the NZ government would stop trying to look after my best interests; they don't do it all that well. YMMV.)

[skibumwa]

Welcome to the thread my Kiwi friend!

I read the NZ Herald online each day. I read the articles. They are very calming compared to US-based headlines. I think the issues and problems in NZ are very reasonable AND fixable. Yes you are right, hence why I don't watch the US news weeknights at 6pm. It's so darn depressing that's it's sickening...

When I get my PR, I will vote trust me. I actually found a flaw in the NZIS form 1007 that I notated to the Immigrations people in Wellington. They are going to fix it because it was a quite an embarassing flaw. I like helping to improve things anywhere I go. :nice1

The US system as you put it is a disaster and complete mess. We are becoming an obsolete nation that no one wants to be a part anymore - that includes many born-Americans like myself.

Is NZ perfect? No... but it's a much nicer (& safer) place to be than the USA.

Looking forward to moving down to Welly!!!

-John




Hi. Interested Kiwi here, rather rudely butting in on your thread. Just tell me to sod off if you want.
John mentions a "wonderful clean safe place with friendly people all around me," which is pretty much standard for most intending immigrants, but I guess politics is also part of life - it can't be good for one to have one's blood pressure shoot up every time you open a newspaper.
Our political system is rather different from the US one in some ways. (Not so different for those coming from the UK, perhaps.) I'm just wondering, do you read up on it as part of your preparation, is it a factor influencing your decision, or do you just assume it to be reasonable?
May be wrong, but I don't think you have to be a citizen to vote here, just a resident.

[jen]

Meh. Bush is a lame duck. The campaign for the next Presidency has already started. While I find the current crop of candidates from both parties wholly uninteresting, any of the likely winners will be an improvement.

As with most things, American politics is cyclical, swinging from good to mediocre to bad and back again. We've bottomed and are turning around, IMO.

You're more optimistic than I am! I think in the last 8 years the government has dug a fiscal and foreign policy hole that a new president/congress even from a different party, won't be able to get us out of for decades.

Though for me personally, it's more the feeling that even including the Clinton years the country has been moving more and more to the right - I think at this point I'd be considered a left-wing, tree-hugging, commie wacko anywhere outside the big cities and coasts.

I didn't move because of politics, but when we needrd to move from our hometown for work reasons US gov't policy was a big factor in relocating to a city OUTSIDE the country not inside. As Barry said the government is far from perfect here, but the things I think are bad are of a much lesser degree than in the US (no healthcare, defense spending, religion involved in gov't).

Not that I know anything . . . I just enjoy watching the Daily Show from a safer distance now :laugh

Jen

[EngiNurse]

Hi. Interested Kiwi here, rather rudely butting in on your thread. Just tell me to sod off if you want.
John mentions a "wonderful clean safe place with friendly people all around me," which is pretty much standard for most intending immigrants, but I guess politics is also part of life - it can't be good for one to have one's blood pressure shoot up every time you open a newspaper.
Our political system is rather different from the US one in some ways. (Not so different for those coming from the UK, perhaps.) I'm just wondering, do you read up on it as part of your preparation, is it a factor influencing your decision, or do you just assume it to be reasonable?
May be wrong, but I don't think you have to be a citizen to vote here, just a resident.Personally, as my wife and I don't intend to seek PR, the political climate doesn't really concern us all too much. We expect it to be more liberal (in the American sense) than where we come from, and we are prepared for it and what it entails. We intend to accept it as we find it, and as we're not planning on staying too long, hope that any difficulties we discover can be set aside for that time.

Regardless, it will be nice to live in a country where every gov't action isn't under worldwide scrutiny for a bit.

[EngiNurse]

Though for me personally, it's more the feeling that even including the Clinton years the country has been moving more and more to the right - I think at this point I'd be considered a left-wing, tree-hugging, commie wacko anywhere outside the big cities and coasts.I'm not sure how old you are, but in my experience, the younger generation (<30 years old) tends to be pretty tolerant and socially aware, tending towards libertarian in many cases. I think that bodes well for the future, long term.

And Colbert is far superior to Stewart. I think Stewart needs to lose the live audience.

[Ana&Steve]

I was guilty of putting NZ on a pedestal when we 1st started out, but I've gotten a much clearer picture in the last 2 years and 2 visits. I've learned that politicians and govt are all cut from the same cloth in many ways, and people are people where ever you go. This hasn't dampened my desire to move to NZ, but I am glad I learned it before we got there. Glad there are threads like these, the debates can really help open the eyes of the dreamers! I also want dual citizenship when the time comes.The most recent example is that the PM so conveniently 'bumped into' the Dalai Lama overseas before his trip to NZ, so she had a perfect excuse not to meet him in her official capacity on NZ soil. (Needless to say, this was the least accidental 'bump' in history, a masterful bit of scheduling and weasel-politico suckup to the Chinese government.)I actually found it quite clever! I thought it sent a message that though NZ is a small country, they don't need any super-power enough to obey their demands, but with a unique cheeky charm.:)

[JoHnH]

Thanks Yanks for allowing me into your thread. I'm impressed by those conscientiously "doing their homework" so to speak - you wouldn't get me reading the NZ Herald on-line every day, life's too short.
I guess what I was wondering about was whether there would be any statements like this from srivett: "The US used to be such a beacon of goodwill, democracy and civil liberty." With the implication perhaps that it ain't no longer, and maybe NZ is, in a small way.
General impression though is that mostly you aren't too starry-eyed, or too worried, about the political system here, more interested in the issues. Very wise, though I doubt the US would produce anything as silly as our recent fuss over "anti-smacking" legislation. And now it's pies in schools! "Hey cops, I just belted my kid, and fed him a steak'n cheese pie! I'm a criminal, you won't take me alive!")
Still, its worth patriotically remarking that 25 years ago we all decided that our perfectly respectable Westminister-style democracy wasn't representative enough, and comprehensively overhauled it in the pursuit of greater fairness. (If that is what MMP has achieved.)
Not bad for country bumpkins, eh?

[barryp]

And Colbert is far superior to Stewart. I think Stewart needs to lose the live audience.

I wouldn't know. C4 carries The Daily Show but not The Colbert Report, and I have other pressing demands on our broadband already. Strike against NZ, this. :D

[constablechuck]

I'm about as fed up with politics in America as anyone, it's all about how much money you have and who you know, after I was elected as State Constable for a mid sized town in PA I found out just how easy it was to step on the big shots toes, trying to actually be a public servant rather than a leech on the public upset some lazy selfish public officials and earned me some enemies.
There's an interesting documentary that recently came out called "who killed the electric car" what an eye opener :exit .
I was raised to believe that a democracy is where everyone has a voice in government not just the rich and connected, I love America and I'll always be an American but I'm happy to be in NZ.

[Debbie P.]

The most recent example is that the PM so conveniently 'bumped into' the Dalai Lama overseas before his trip to NZ, so she had a perfect excuse not to meet him in her official capacity on NZ soil. (Needless to say, this was the least accidental 'bump' in history, a masterful bit of scheduling and weasel-politico suckup to the Chinese government.)

Why did she have to suck up to the Chinese government? Thought the DL lived in India?? Just curious, as I know very little about Asian politics but would love to meet the Dalai Lama. Didn't realise you had to pass it with China before meeting him... or was he in China at the time? :confused:

Actually, rereading your message, I see what you mean. Silly me!:o

[Nathan]

I watched the clip. It is very difficult for me to sit through that much anger. I really want to leave that behind.... whether I'm here in USA or in NZ.... I just don't want to be part of that kind of fear and hatred. :exit

[srivett]

In regard to my comment about what the US used to represent, I didn't mean to sound starry-eyed, and I didn't mean to shift the implication to NZ. I'm a realist and I try to keep up with the realities of politics and life in as much of the world as I can :) I was speaking comparatively, because even 10 years ago the US was a dream country for many people. Friends of mine living everywhere from Austria to Israel remember envying it as a great country where diversity was not only tolerated, but encouraged. Of course, sadly, that was a pipedream and illusion for some, but it wasn't a bald-faced lie either. Now that love of diversity is gone. While it may be true in the minds of millions of individual Americans, it isn't the guiding light of the country's leaders anymore. It's gone in the opposite direction: condemning diversity. Be you Muslim, gay, liberal or any number of other groups, you have to watch yourself these days, because you're more than likely to be rudely censured. That wasn't the case when I first visited 10 years ago, and it's been getting steadily worse in the years since.

I don't think it's a matter of upping and moving simply because of a president who has a very limited amount of time left in power; it isn't just Dubya. It's the whole political climate, the swing to the far right and the conflation of state and church that bothers me and plenty of other people (as many of you have already said for yourselves, and still are saying as I write this, because I'm wordy and taking too long about this ;)).

I stayed with a friend in Atlanta for most of the summer of 2004. The Deep South is hardly the place to expect liberal sensitivities, but I was still surprised by the prevalence of seriously intolerant attitudes. Most of the bumper stickers proclaimed Bush loyalty. I attended a Baptist Sunday School meeting with my hosts out of politeness and ended up listening to a heartfelt prayer to God and Government to cleanse the nation of 'perverts', environmentalists, socialists, hippies and other evildoers. The minister actually called the congregation to "righteous wrath" against such people - this from a church whose sign out front proclaimed it "The Church of Love". I'm not so blind as to think the Deep South represents the majority of the US populace, but I've encountered similar attitudes in other states too. And there's the war. And there's the move towards isolationism that's pushing the rest of the world away. And there's the refusal to even try to meet the Kyoto Accord - this from one of the most heavily industrialised countries in the world.

No country is perfect, but after examining the facts and my own feelings, NZ simply comes out better. It has a healthier sense of national pride than the US or Canada; the population is far more manageable; its human rights and environmental policies are rated extremely highly (now why doesn't Eastern Canada do what NZ did and create fishing-free zones to help its fish crisis instead of fishing itself to death?); the scenery is gorgeous; the food is good; the climate is good; the people are as decent-minded as anywhere in the world, with the advantage that they don't have to deal with many of the situations that affect larger countries. (Now why am I defending NZ here of all places? lol). I dunno - I guess you can tell me that one first-world country is the same as another, but there are concrete differences, and the US is headed in a very bad direction (case in point: REAL IDs). I'd rather be in NZ.

As far as my personal reasons for moving go, I live in Canada, and the political climate is great here. It's been good to me. I don't think of myself as leaving Canada really; I think of myself as moving to New Zealand. I grew up down under, and I've always intended to go back. That I'm moving to NZ instead of Australia is based on a few reasons, but none of them is naive idealism about the land of milk and honey. I've felt like an outsider for most of my life. In NZ, each time I visited, I had a sense of belonging. Naive or not, I'm not going to argue with a feeling like that :)

[EngiNurse]

Very wise, though I doubt the US would produce anything as silly as our recent fuss over "anti-smacking" legislation.Wanna bet?

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/19/BAGE2NLGQD1.DTL

;)

[EngiNurse]

I wouldn't know. C4 carries The Daily Show but not The Colbert Report, and I have other pressing demands on our broadband already. Strike against NZ, this. :DI know. Surviving without my MLB.tv (streaming of MLB games) is gonna hurt!

[movefromus]

We're trying to make a definite decision. We're getting all the paper work done and I imagine we'll move over for a little while. I was raised in New Zealand but married an American and am living in the south east. The only aspect of the move that is truely difficult for us is the political one. My husband (and me sometimes) reads the NZ Herald and we have looked into the politics a fair amount - some of it scares the heck out of me. The US isn't much better though - no presidential potentials look at all good. The Republicans are too liberal and the Democrats are too...liberal!:laugh So the issue is - stay and try to fix America or go and fix NZ :laugh . I see stirrings of discontent online from some NZers so maybe I'll join in with them...Hubby can still vote in the Presidential election and email the US senators and reps.
BTW - our main reason for moving is to be near my family for a while..and the scenery of course!:D
Carly

[srivett]

You think the Republicans are too liberal? :confused:

[movefromus]

Yep, a few examples - 1 They spend too much money, 2 Bush' illegal immigrant bill, 3 lack of border control

Has anyone seen that new show called Lil Bush? Quite funny.:laugh

[Ana&Steve]

I don't know if I can word this well, but here goes...It's not just the lack of faith in our big govt that wears me down, but all the broken bits of smaller govt run facilities, and the ones not technically run by the govt but "in bed with them" so to speak.
It seems that everything is run the same way, with campaigners scaring up funding, bigwigs taking the funding, giving themselves raises, and frivolously spending the rest. I'm talking about hospitals, schools, (We'll never see Pizza Hut and Coke out of schools completely!) charities like the Red Cross, the local council and mayor; not to mention the big business that seems to have WAY more of a hand in things than we perceive, like oil co.s and electric co.s.
It wears down my soul, thinking about all that money wasted, when it really was enough to make a difference in quality of life. I hate that I don't trust anyone I have to hand money over to anymore, that every one is thying something shady.
I honestly feel that NZ is different in this respect. I really feel that they will get healthier food into the school, and that the electric companies will not turn off power again without getting all the facts. I think the voice of the people actually counts for something to NZ govt, and people can and do affect change there. I could be naive, as I said before, people and govt are cut from the same cloth, but I need something to believe in right now!
Ana

[srivett]

Ah, I see. I understood you to mean liberal in the political sense, e.g. limited state interference in individual life, social reform, etc.

Personally, I think the government spending situation is just plain irresponsible from anyone's point of view, liberal or conservative. As for the immigration bill, it's just another excuse to tighten national security and put everyone on Homeland Security's radar. It would make it even harder for legitimate immigrants to settle properly. The bill prioritizes their skills and doesn't prioritize family reunification, resulting in skilled workers stranded in the US with not much more than a paycheck. So I don't see that as very liberal either. But I always enjoy a good debate :)

[Oregonkiwi]

I think the voice of the people actually counts for something to NZ govt, and people can and do affect change there.
Ana, I think you're right; this is one of the things about NZ that I really like.

[upnorthkyosa]

I don't know if it's wise to move from the US to NZ for political reasons now days. Sure, things really suck right now in the US. In fact, they are down right terrifying. But, on a global scale, there are some over arching problems that are coming down the pipe and you just can't escape those. The US is ahead of the negative curve in this respect, but I think that other countries could easily follow suit.

With that being said, from my research, kiwis in general seem to be very nimble and innovative when dealing with these big issues. And that is very appealing to me.

We'll just have to see. Politics certainly is something that influenced my families decision to go, but it's not the only reason. Sheer adventure plays a large part too!

[EngiNurse]

I think the voice of the people actually counts for something to NZ govt, and people can and do affect change there.I wonder how much of that has to do with scale. NZ has a population of around 4 million, somewhere between Oregon and Kentucky. The US has a population of 300 million. San Diego county alone has 3 million. That's a whole lot more voices to try and be heard over....

[skibumwa]

Hey guys/gals,

Sorry this simple post turned out to be opening a huge can of worms for 'politics'. It was not mean to be that, BUT it is an very interesting thread indeed..

From Sunny Seattle,
:nice1
-John

[Ana&Steve]

Sorry this simple post turned out to be opening a huge can of worms for 'politics'. It was not mean to be that, BUT it is an very interesting thread indeed..


No worries, gives everyone a chance to think about how they feel, and to share their views. :D
Ana

[kanatakiwi]

laugh So the issue is - stay and try to fix America or go and fix NZ :laugh .

Most Kiwis wont take too kindly to Americans or anyone else coming to "fix NZ"

[skibumwa]

I don't want to fix NZ, I just want to live there. When I get my PR, I will vote of course. Anything is better than being subjected to the USA's current problems. Besides, I made some great friends just from being there for 3 weeks. I felt a sense home there.. I really did.

:nice1

Most Kiwis wont take too kindly to Americans or anyone else coming to "fix NZ"

[JoHnH]

John:
"...this simple post turned out to be opening a huge can of worms for 'politics'."
Sorry if I contributed to that. But boy, you guys do like to argue with each other, don't you!
Seriously though, I caught a whiff on this thread of what I believe is called Conservative, or Republican or Right Wing thinking, with automatic suspicion about anything "Lib-er-ul."
Could be frustrating bringing those attitudes here. Remember, this place was once "the social laboratory of the world," the pioneer of the welfare state, and though that's mostly history now, a lot of us grew up under it, and are still rather habituated to the "Nanny State." Perhaps why Auntie Helen has had such a long run at the top.
We'll probably be pinko pansies for quite a while yet.

[movefromus]

Kanatakiwi - I'm not American, I'm a New Zealander and there are plenty of New Zealanders who feel the way I do.

John, I reckon the first thing that needs doing is to vote Helen out :clap

OP - how could it not be a such a political thread? The video you posted was political! :laugh Anyway, there's nothing wrong with talking about the politics of New Zealand...it plays a major role in people's lives.

[srivett]

Sheer adventure plays a large part too!

Words to live my life by :nice1

I'm definitely a leftie (as is probably glaringly obvious *wry grin*), which is why NZ's political history appeals to me so much. NZ has made a stand on a lot of big issues for such a small country. As upnorthkyosa mentioned, there's global stuff hitting the fan, and no country is going to be insulated from it, but I'd rather be in one where I'm happy and have a chance of contributing to a solution instead of the problem. Eco-awareness is becoming a big issue, and I think NZers are more suited to it than most - whether because of their general outdoors-iness or the DIY attitude or the size of the islands/population or its relative isolation from the rest of the world, or a combination other factors, I don't know - but that's the feeling I get.

Cans of worms can be interesting... but I hope no one has been offended. If so, I apologise for my part in it. Work's slow in the mornings (EST) and with my move so close, NZ is all I can think about :o

[dharder]

Eco-awareness is becoming a big issue, and I think NZers are more suited to it than most - whether because of their general outdoors-iness or the DIY attitude or the size of the islands/population or its relative isolation from the rest of the world, or a combination other factors, I don't know - but that's the feeling I get.

I would certainly describe myself as a 'leftie' (though I don't read the Guardian...), and am most certainly eco-aware. When I moved to the UK ten years ago, I moved back in time where environmental issues are concerned, and I only now start to get the feeling that the UK is catching up with some continental European countries.

I don't get that eco awareness vibe about NZ at all. Maybe my standards are higher, but I expect a lot more from an eco-aware country. I got the impression that there is more of an 'look, it's green, why do we need to do anything' kind of attitude. High number of cars, lack of insulation/double glazing, not very environmentally friendly ways to heat houses, and some denial about the fact that not all NZ's energy comes from renewable sources.

In a lot of aspects, I also find the UK more 'left' for lack of a better word(where employment rights are concerned, for example). There certainly seem to be more 'right wing religious family values' type people and parties in NZ, far too many for my taste.

I guess I'll find out for sure once I get there, but from what I've read and my short stay there, I didn't find the environmental/recycling/public transport/organic food attitude that one would hope for these days.

Daniela

[skibumwa]

Funny thing I just recognized from these Helen jokes, in real life I actually do have an 'Aunt Helen'. She's not a politician though, she lives in Maine as a retired person. hehe

It's a shame that US politics and such effect the world so much. I do think that G W Bush is a few chromosomes short of being a primate.

By the way, most people from the USA out here telling the world that they are trying to move from the States to NZ would be considered 'liberal'. The right wingers and such, are the GW Bush fan club members back here the States.




Kanatakiwi - I'm not American, I'm a New Zealander and there are plenty of New Zealanders who feel the way I do.

John, I reckon the first thing that needs doing is to vote Helen out :clap

OP - how could it not be a such a political thread? The video you posted was political! :laugh Anyway, there's nothing wrong with talking about the politics of New Zealand...it plays a major role in people's lives.

[srivett]

Hmm, I see. That's something to think about. Thanks, Daniela. I guess being 'better suited' to eco-awareness is very different from acting on it :p I did notice the lack of recycling when I visited NZ last year, but there also seemed to be quite a few sustainable housing projects - more than I'm used to in Ontario. Here, energy wastage is a fairly big issue, especially in Toronto. For reasons beyond my understanding, they rev the A/C up in summer in most public buildings to the point where I'm uncomfortably cold. Hottest days last year resulted in rotating power-outs and borrowing power from the US because the average person did the same at home. It's the reverse in winter - heating uses up a lot of energy, which good insulation only partially makes up for. Cost of the climate, unfortunately, but it's also what makes my view of NZ more optimistic - there's less need for high energy expenditure in the first place.

Garbage disposal is bad too - and a particular embarrassment for Toronto, where we're actually paying the US to take our garbage off our hands. The city recently introduced an organic waste collection, but still nothing like the advanced programs they have in Europe. Honestly, I'd like to get involved in bringing recycling standards up, if it's at all possible. It has to start somewhere... and I want to follow through on this for once. I guess we'll see :)

Suze

[EngiNurse]

Could be frustrating bringing those attitudes here.Heh. I've voted in every federal election since 1996. None of the national-level candidates I've voted for have ever won. I think candidates should pay me to vote for their opponent!

Being a libertarian means I don't fit comfortably anywhere in America's 2-party system. I'm used to being frustrated! :D

[movefromus]

I don't think NZ is too bad on recycling. I remember as teenager having recycling bins for plastics and people would put out piles of paper for pick up. This was on the North Shore so I'm not sure about everywhere else.

[dharder]

I don't think NZ is too bad on recycling.

I suppose that depends on where you are coming from.

But I think I've seen a couple of programmes to get the insulation of houses off the ground, and the beginning of a think about air pollution, and more stringent rules when building new houses.

So there's hope :)

Daniela

[Ana&Steve]

boy, you guys do like to argue with each other, don't you!
No we don't!















Just kidding!:D
Ana

[kanatakiwi]

I did notice the lack of recycling when I visited NZ last year, but there also seemed to be quite a few sustainable housing projects - more than I'm used to in Ontario. Honestly, I'd like to get involved in bringing recycling standards up, if it's at all possible. It has to start somewhere... and I want to follow through on this for once.
Suze

Hey Suze

I was shocked at lack of recycling in public institutions etc in NZ. :no The curbside recycling program is good, but go to a shopping mall or a university or food court anywhere in Auckland and try to find a bin to put your plastics in. :confused: non existant! I've written to AUT, Westfields who own most of the shopping centres, etc and got varying apologetic replies but nothing has changed.
Its also sad to see the lovely "clean and green" beaches and parks littered with picnic garbage that people cant be bothered to put in the nearest disposal bin.

And dont get me started on the plastic bag situation here. Millions used every week. As near as I can tell , only Warehouse and Foodtown are actively promoting cloth bags instead of plastic, although I hear that Bunnings now uses a plastic bag that breaks down quickly. I've asked New World to make cloth bags available and promote less use of plastic but they say thats what their customers want.

My take on NZ attitudes about eco issues: the bigger issues, like climate change, energy usage etc, are being tackled, mostly led by government (that would be Auntie Helen:yes ). Sustainable housing is on the radar, but then the flip side is that the majority of the population lives in poorly heated, uninsulated, single glazed houses
And for the most part, the attitudes of the citizens are a decade behind. There was someone on the radio talking about bottle desposits and return programs like in Canada and the US, and people didn't think it could work in NZ! I think when kids know from an early age that their pop cans and drink bottles are something with a value attached (even if its only a dime), they tend not to throw it away at the beach or put it in the garbage can.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that NZ is clean and green because it rains a lot here, and the winds from the Tasman and the Pacific blow the smog away from auckland, but its not really because of the attitude of the people that live here. If anything people think because this country is clean and green and Godzone , its not necessary for them to do much. Tourists come here expecting that wonderful outdoor scenic holiday and they do get that, but when you live here you quickly notice the little things like attitudes to garbage, recycling, use of chemicals in gardens and parks, etc. .
So lots for you to do here Suze.
Gloria

[movefromus]

In case you guys are interested, here's a link to a web sight with New Zealander's who have a similar view of the world to me. It's nice to know I won't be alone in my opinions :raebanana

http://www.nzcpd.com/index.php

Carly

[Sam B]

It's certainly not the ecological paradise I was hoping for here, but it's not too bad. Recycling in the home is similar or slightly better than Britain. There is much less litter. There is a big fondness for second hand and there are items on Trade me that frankly DO belong in a skip, but they do seem to get bought in the end! There are lots of horrid big 4 wheel drive cars, but I guess they are slightly more justifiable. People are less consumerist, but not loads less. On green issues, I think it is comparable to the UK but can't comment on the US as I've never been there.

It will definitely seem more left wing here than the US, surely! Most Kiwis I've met seem very indignant about what they see as government interference in their lives, and yet the govt are way more hands-off than what I was used to in the UK. I think it's right to legislate for healthy food in schools for example, makes perfect sense and saves money on health care in the long term.

[calixfornia]

We will be all too eager to leave the midwest, for all the reasons stated in the posts above. Glad to be among people who are AWARE (which is exceedingly hard to find in the midwest, grrr)!
I could go on and on but I don't want to be added to the US no fly list ... we're so close to getting out of here! :oP