[susanlin]

Hi everyone

Just come back from a fantastic holiday on the Gold Coast Australia and have to say I wonder why on earth I emigrated to NZ and not Oz! I was really impressed with Australia - the climate, the food prices, the choice of stuff in the shops (instead of NO choice in NZ supermarkets), leisure opportunities, glorious coast, blue, blue sky and great people! Of course, things always look great on holiday - NZ did which is why I moved here - but I really felt that Australia would be a great place to live - both mine and my husband's professions are in demand over there and I know we would have a better standard of living than we do in NZ. But just couldn't move the children again so have to put my 'emigrate to Australia thoughts' well out of my head (for now.....)
:? :?

[Diny]

Hi Sue

Good to hear you had a great holiday. Abit of good weather does the trick sometimes.

Oz is VERY different to NZ isn't it? Is that the first time you've been there?

PB and I lived there back in the late 80's early 90's, eventually living in Darwin for a few years (boy that was hot). Although our time there was pretty good, we were both more than happy to leave. What initially attracted us soon became 'normal', and I have to admit to finding the people downright annoying. I know I'm guilty of making a sweeping statement here so I'm getting prepared for the flack that will obviously be sent my way, but jeeeeeeeze .......... our dear Australian brothers weren't blessed with the highest quota of brain cells were they?

My parents have an Aussie staying with them at the moment and although neither of my parents claim to be a 2nd Einstein, they are finding it very waring trying to involve him in any conversation that requires using just a fraction of his bain and doesn't centre around the subject of warm weather and beer.

Of course - these are just my opinions, and I realise that they may be cause for debate. I speak as I find.

My experience of Australia? Nice for a holiday but thank God for airport departure lounges.

My experience of the Aussies? err ........... thick !!!!!!!!

I realise that it's each to their own, some will agree with me, some will tie me to the verbal whipping post. Whichever country you eventually decide to settle in, I wish you all the happiness in the world. It wouldn't do if we were all wanting to be in the same place.

Happy new year.

Diny

[Douglas]

Posted in another thread by "grommit".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Advice to all dreamers....NZ is not what it is cracked up to be.
I regret moving here 5 months ago
Poor wages
Poor standard of living
I wish I could turn the clock back but my kids are in school now....

Don't do it - UK is paradise compared to NZ...
Disillusioned.....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Diny]

Grommit

Sorry to hear you're on such a downer, being in a place and a situation which you don't like is a real pain in the neck.

What can I say? I'm sure you've tried everything and looked at the situation from all angles. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we planned (but unless we try how do we know).

What attracted you to NZ in the first place, have these attractions turned out to be so different, have all your expectations been dashed?

Did you spend much time in NZ before you moved over there? Sometimes people emmigrate having never visited the country before and everything works just fine, others find the reality difficult to stomach.

What work are you doing? Where are you living? Is there any chance you could change jobs, move to a different area?

How old are your children? Maybe another change of school would have less of a damaging effect on them than having a seriously unhappy parent.

Does your wife feel the same (automatically presuming you are male - couldn't really tell from your posting).

Although 5 months must seem like an eternity to you, in the grand scale of things it's a very short time scale. The general 'rule of thumb' would be to give yourself at LEAST a year before you make any decisions and draw too many conclusions.

I have a friend who emmigrated to NZ 13 months ago. She hated it so much it made her ill. Her husband works away on an oil rig and he had to keep getting flown home to pour oil on troubled waters as she was so unhappy she was near a breakdown. Nobody thought she would last more than a couple of months. She's now very enthusiastic about her new house, the life she leads and is fully committed to staying for at least 10 years. Believe me, nobody would believe that such a turn around would ever have taken place. She still loves the UK and misses it very much. She will be the first to tell you that NZ - when all is said and done - is just another place to live. Not the great paradise that some believe it to be, not the friendliest place in the world, it has more than it's fair share of crap weather and some aspects of NZ life is almost stone age.

Obviously nobody can make your mind up for you. You need to sit with your family and assess the situation. Weigh up the pro's and cons and then take the necessary action. When you change your country of residence you also need to change alot of other things too, mainly your attitude towards life. If you were the kind of person who was easily disillusioned in the UK, then unless you change, you'll be easilly disillusioned wherever you live. Do what you have to do to bring back happiness and contentment into your life ......... we're a long time dead !!!

On a final note though, not meaning to preach in any way (hhmmmm), but the folks who are moving to NZ may not be too pleased at being referred to as 'dreamers'. I know nothing was meant by the opening lines of your posting, but I personally would class myself more as a realist. Definately not a dreamer (unless Goerge Cloony is involved of course).

Hope all turns out well for you and that you can see a way to a more settled existance.

Diny

[veronica]

susan lin, glad you enjoyed the holiday in Oz. we lived there for 6 years in various places but...... although we loved it and unlike Diny found the Aussies to be, for the main part normal, intelligent, friendly people (I think Dinys Oz geographical location may have a bearing on her views) there are other spects to think on. Poisonous snakes and spiders, huge mossies, high humidity and tropical storms in Queensland, and heat. While it sounds silly to some people living and working in the heat all year round can be hard, its not like when you are on holiday.

[Diny]

Veronica

You are right .... you don't get much slower than those Darwin folk. It's a haven for the dead-beats and drop outs. It seemed to be a collecting yard for miss-fits and brain dead individuals.

Maybe that's why I managed a few years up there :nice1

I did say my comments were 'sweeping' ..... of course I realise that it's not true about the entire nation.

It's like calling the Italians cowards, The Japanese cruel, The Germans arrogant, The Americans loud. All very sweeping statements which are totally incorrect when aimed at every citizen of those particular countries. Good and bad, intelligent and thick, right and wrong .... they exisist everywhere. Some places just have concentrated areas .... such as Darwin.

I think I'll bow out now - I can see this getting political, and I think I'm far too thick to hold my own in a political discussion. :oops:

Diny

[susanlin]

Hi Diny and Veronica

Thanks for your comments regarding Oz. Diny, you made me laugh with your analysis of aussie men! I don't know any so will just have to take your word for it! I just know that all the people I met on my holiday were really friendly. I don't know...I just felt so different being in Oz than I do here in NZ. I loved it but then I was so desperate for a holiday, perhaps anywhere would have seemed fantastic!! I really felt I needed to get out of NZ for a bit and it seems to have done the trick as I don 't feel quite so fedup with the place now! Plan on getting out more and revisiting some of the wonderful places NZ has to offer. Decided -I have worked too hard this last 10 months or so - not spent enough time on leisure and relaxation - though it has been so stressful this emigrating business I have just not felt inclined. All change come New Year!

Veronica - I hate spiders, snakes and creatures so I would find it really difficult living amongst them all in Oz! Saw a massive cockroach whilst I was over there (size of a horse) - I nearly fainted with fear! :eek Managed to get rid of by drowning it in deoderant - (first thing that came to hand - hubby's hand that is!) My hero!

[jo b]

Wow,

Susan that deordorant of your hubby's must be strong. What brand is it I could get some for my other half. If he sprays enough it might even kill him :laugh only kidding.

A holiday always puts a different slant on things doesn't it. I remember going to Florida and thinking I could live here, looking back could I heck. With emigrating comes all the emotional upheaval that doesn't come with a holiday. You breath in and hold when you emigrate you breath out and relax on holiday.

Was it a touristy place you stayed i.e. beach etc. don't forget they will be friendly when you are spending you hard earned cash there. Just the same in Spain, Portugal, Italy etc. Go into the cities where they are doing the humdrum routine and maybe they aren't as friendy, not that they'd be rude just not as friendly.

You would be doing the right thing and getting out and about in your adopted country, and you will see the the kiwis are also friendly.

there is good and bad everywhere, you just have to look for the good a bit more sometimes.

I do hope you settle soon 10 months isn't long really, You probably planned the move for longer than that.

Chin up chuck when the sun shines in NZ you may see things a little different.

Jo

[susanlin]

Hi Jo

Thanks for your comments - you are right, things looks so different on holiday. I was staying right beside the beach - fab apartment (apart from the one gigantic cockroach that took residence - ha! not for long, the little blighter - that was one sweet smelling cockroach that went to his maker....)

You mention Kiwi friendliness - absolutely agree with you - they are the nicest people I have ever met. I have been so touched by the genuine gestures of friendship I have received in the time I have been here. It has helped a lot - (as you know I have been really, REALLY homesick!)

Hope things are going well with you and your plans. When are you planning to be here in NZ?

[jo b]

Susna, we land in Chc on 17th March.

If there is anything you want me to bring from the UK let me know.

Maybe we can meet up My family and I will only be there for about 3/4 days before we travel North.

pm me if you need anything bringing over.

Jo

[Diny]

Sue

Your story about the deodorant made me laugh - and brought back some evil memories.

When I was living in Melbourne I came face to face with a huntsman spider (blooming massive).

The only weapon I had was a can of firm hold hairspray.

He looked very neat when he met his maker !!!!!!!!

Good to hear you're feeling better about NZ after a holiday. A change is as good as a rest. Hope your plans for a more 'get out there' 2005 go well.

See you soon.

Diny

[jan]

Can`t believe we are still here!!

Went to Minorca at the tender age of 17 with 3 others of similar age. Rented a villa which was nice. Came back from the beach 1 day to find an enourmous army of ants (thats all, no huntsman here) parading round the kitchen area stretching all around the villa. Thought we would grab a very large can of Insette hair spray (cheap as chips but stuck the hair do quite well) and get the blighters. Not content with this destruction Lit the spray. We laughed and laughed.

We have grown up now & cringe at the thought of the catastropy that we somehow averted.

PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT ALL !!!!!!!! :no :no :no :no :no

Jan xx :oops: :oops:

[Diny]

Blooming heck Jan !!!!!!

Lighting the spray .... now that's just sick.

Diny

[ruthyroo]

We just came back from a week in Sydney and felt exactly the way you do! I know Sydney quite well, and love it, and my DH fell for it big time as well, and when we arrived back in NZ it seemed very hokey, dowdy and 'stone age' in comparison! And like you, both our professions are coming into demand in Oz, we could earn pots more money than we can here with the rubbish wages. As Diny says it's definitely partly the holiday buzz that you experience, but it's taught me that NZ and Oz cannot be lumped together as so many guide books / people do - they are very different places. I was so disappointed with Auckland when we arrived there - I was expecting a mini Sydney, but it was nothing like it! Oh well, Oz is only 4 hours cheap flight away, and we will keep an eye on the immigration situation there once our 3 yr WP run out...

[kiwidebs]

but it's taught me that NZ and Oz cannot be lumped together as so many guide books / people do

You can bet your bottom dollar its not a Kiwi lumping the two countries together!! :laugh

[veronica]

it wouldn't be an Aussie either, its just the rest of the world.

[Gran]

We did our sentence in Aussie, 6 years, when we arrived in NZ it was like we came home, we would never go back except for a holiday. Some friends moved to Gold Coast a couple of months ago, lasted 6 weeks.
I get the impression that a lot of people on here come for a simpler life with friendlier people, it seems that some change their minds about that and want to climb back on the bandwagon. All I can say is go for it !!!

[ruthyroo]

Yep, you're right it is just the rest of the world - they run 'australiaandnewzealand' all into one word becuase they are both 'down under'. But they are worlds apart really... at risk of committing more sweeping generalisations, it is very obvious to me that Oz was established by english cockney wideboys and cheeky irish convicts while NZ was founded by dull old Scottish presbyterians (and I am one of the latter so I can say that!).

And something DH said recently rang very true...NZ gives you the opportunity to live as your parents did 30 years ago i.e. the simple pleasures of camping holidays exploring your own country rather than flashing off abroad (becuase it's too expensive on the NZ salary), amusing yourself in the evenings with books and games rather than plugging into the TV (becuase the TV is c**p), going for big walks / cycles etc at the weekends (ditto). I see many families here in NZ who remind me of mine when I was wee, and I don't remember thinking that in the UK (Oh d**n those rose-tinted spectacles are falling back on!!)

[veronica]

One thing that NZ and Oz have in common...c**p TV. but at least as you say that doesn't encourage you to stay in and watch it.

[markkellaway]

I think Ruthyroo's last port to an extent hit the nail on the head. If you are going to NZ expecting to further your career and earn an equivilent or higher salary than the UK, in the main forget it. If you are expecting the same telly, forget it. If you are expecting the same shops, forget it. Having said that, if you are expecting all those things why move at all?

If, on the other hand, you want less people, more friendly people, more opportunity to appreciate the outdoors (up to you if you actually do it) then NZ might be the place for you. And please don't tell me people aren't friendlier, I come from the south coast of England, people may be friendly once you know them but gregarious has fallen out of the dictionary here. In the main we found that to not be the case in NZ. This isn't just a holiday perspective either, friends who have been there for some time have said the same.

The above leads me onto something else. Those that have had negative, and completely valid, experiences, rather than simply giving sweeping statements like "third world wages, third world standard of living", or "poor wages, poor standard of living" as I have seen could you please qualify these opinions? I'm not saying they aren't valid, as subjective feedback they are entirely valid to those that provided it, but to the rest of us it would help if we had something to measure these opinions by.

Cheers,

Mark. :P

[Moorf]

People in NZ friendly?

In the words of my 8 year old nephew who spent Xmas with us here in NZ "I love New Zealand - the people speak to you like they have known you for years and the views are great." That was on day three... bless!

:P

[jo b]

Moorf,

It warms the cockles of my heart when kids notice nice things. It shows they appreciate them.

In the words of my (then) 8 year old when we went to London, after day 1. 'It's filthy here mum and I haven't yet heard an English accent except for that scouser' (He was selling us God etc.)

Well it'll Kiwi accents this year I hope :hopeso

Jo

[leslie]

oz and nz are VERY different. we are putting the good money on nz as believe that in time nz will surpass oz in virtually every way. without becoming a barren desert. and i am going to enjoy having my children/ g-c come back when i am retired (unlike uk where retirement is becoming a 'dream').

expectations vs reality of much importance (did you do your research??? nooooooobody likes research and that is why wherever you go it pays so very very well) but 5 months is waaaaaaaay too short a time to adjust. as olds it will take anywhere from a year upwards to begin to settle in - dont believe the bbc. chalk up at least that just to find a decent hairdresser. after 3 years back in london i am less settled than ever - loathe everyone i meet and do not forsee any major improvements on a grand scale. its an odd love that views the uk as paradise...

[Diny]

Some very valid points. 5 months is way too short a time to even think about making any 'shall we/shan't we' decisions.

I would agree that the UK wouldn't be at the top of my list when naming paradise. However, it would be nowhere near the bottom either !!

I think what we all tend to forget (myself very much included in this comment) is that whatever country we are in, we tend to tar everybody and everything with the same brush.

Lesley I agree with you as far as London is concerned. 3 years down there would just about split my head in two. Faceless, nameless crowds all intent on getting from A to B, homeless people occupying doorways and back alleys, the pollution, the traffic, the mile after mile of concrete jungle. Those pathetic 'city slickers' with their carry out 'Costa coffees' (what's wrong with the kettle in the office for Gods sake), all thinking they are the most important 'business person' since Al Fayed. The noise would get me down too. But anyway - I respect the fact that some people just love London. What about Pleccy 2000, he lasted 6 weeks in NZ and couldn't wait to return to the big smoke.

But - as far as other parts of the country go, well I don't feel they are all bad. Like everywhere else, the UK has good places, bad places, nice people, dreadful people, etc etc.

The other day PB and I were talking about this very subject, we both agreed that the UK has been damn good to us. There's still a few last bastions of decency, opportunity and general good left here, you just need the tenacity to get out there and work it to your advantage. I don't live in a city, and although we're right on the edge of the Black Country we are still in a very rural location. However, I don't go around with my eyes shut, I can see what's happening to this country, it saddens me a great deal.

I sometimes have to ask myself, should I have married a local farmer (as a farmers daughter it was sort of expected) instead of marrying a Kiwi, would I have ever considered emigrating to the other side of the world? I don't think I can give an honest answer to that question, but something in the back of my mind sort of tells me that the idea would never have entered my head.

Having spent alot of time in NZ I feel comfortable with the decision to emigrate. Although nothing compares to actually living somewhere, I think we have enough of an insight to know what lies ahead of us. I can assure everybody that there are more 'pros' on my immigration list than there are 'cons'. However, those 'cons' do exisit, and I know from first hand experience that there's some aspects of NZ life that could never even come close to equaling what we have here, but there's also alot of things that far out-do our present UK lifestyle.

It's all a matter of weighing everything up, and of course, the essential factor of 'attitude'. For those who think that NZ will out-strip the UK in abosolutely everthing .... well ...... I feel it's going to be one heck of a disappointment. However, I still believe that NZ can offer a wonderful future to many many people. Until the population of NZ increases by at least 400%, the very real problems that exisit there will remain to be hidden and eaten up by the sheer lack of people.

It's all a matter of demographics.

Diny

[RoadRunner]

Hi Susanlin, Diny, et. al.,
This is a great thread. My husband and I are seeking to emigrate from the US to NZ or Oz. We have not visited either place but we have done a great deal of research (including reading the many great posts on this forum!). Our initial impression is that we are more likely to be happy in NZ but, of course, it is always so hard to know. The complaints on this forum have certainly given us pause and so we really appreciate all the thoughtful pro/con arguments. (Is NZ really as backwards as many have commented?)

We have considered taking a vacation to NZ to visit Wellington and Auckland but like many on this thread have noted, visiting a place is so different than living there that we are not sure it would be money well spent. Have any others found that a visit to NZ was helpful in deciding to emigrate?

The other concern we have is that we really want to ensure that we can eventually get citizenship in whichever country we move to. With Oz, the process seems extremely complex and designed to keep people out v. NZ where they seem to *want* immigrants. My husband might be able to get a job in either Sydney or Melbourne with a multinational company that would initially sponsor him for a 457 Visa (a 4-year work permit which extends to me). If he does well, they would consider sponsoring us for permanent residence after 2 years. If they do not, we are not confident we would be able to qualify on our own (we are in the IT field and our points after he works in Oz for 6 months would exactly meet the cut-off). If all of that fails, we are afraid we'd be getting too old for us to easily qualify in NZ. There are other complications, like not being able to buy a home in Oz without permission/exception from some government agency until you have PR.

Also, Sydney and Melbourne seem to be very large cities that have many of the same issues that we have dealt with in the US (east coast): expensive housing, long commutes, dirty cities, people too busy with work/commutes to be friendly with neighbors, etc. Are they really different than any other large, world-wide city? We have been living on the east coast of the US for the past many years and have recently escaped to the Southwest. It's a beautiful part of the US but there are no jobs... We like smaller cities (like Tucson where we live now) where you can enjoy local playhouses, great local restaurants where the people remember you, etc. We thought that Wellington or even Auckland might be more to our taste than bigger cities like Sydney or Melbourne.

We are also seeking a country that more closely fits our values (to say the least, we are not at all happy with the direction the US is going in). It seems like people in NZ are more likely to be open, honest, less judgemental or inclinded to push views/beliefs on others. Is that true of Kiwis? What about Aussies?

Again, thanks to all for your great comments.

----------
Current Status: EOI Selected on 8 December 2004.
Points: 130
No job offers.

[Diny]

Roadrunner

I have just read your post, I wish I could help with all of your questions - sadly I can't but I can pass on a small amount of info.

Firstly - why are you unable to buy a house in Oz until you get PR. We lived there when we were first married. My husband is a Kiwi (so can automatically live in Oz without having to worry about any red tape). When we bought our house in Darwin we were never asked by anybody, whether we were allowed to buy. Maybe this was due to the fact that hubby had PR status - in fact so did I - but how did they know that was the case. Would the restriction on purchasing a house be put in place as part of your visa conditions?

Moving onto the subject of large cities. Melbourne is massive !!!! If you include the outer suburbs, travelling from one side to the other would require a packed lunch !! Sydney is huge too, but to be honest I don't really know how the 2 compare size wise. Anybody who is familiar with my postings will know that I'm no fan of city life - I'm not a great fan of the Aussies either. I think any 'advice' I gave on this subject would be a tad one sided.

I know that in the past there's been talk of the NZIS clamping down on folks who decide to use NZ as a fast track to Oz. Up until a couple of days ago, you only had to have PR status in NZ for 3 years to qualify for citizenship. Once you got your NZ passport you were able to hop over the water and get the automatic right to live in Oz. From 1st Jan 2005 the PR time has been extended to 5 years. Obviously there's various reasons for this change, but clamping down on the 'Aussies back door' system is one of them.

As for taking a holiday before you decide to emigrate. Well - there really are 2 schools of thought on this one. I guess there's no right or wrong. Personally I would never consider uprooting my family to move thousands of miles to a place I'd only read about in glossy mags and seen on TV holiday shows. But - I know of several people who have/are moving before checking the place out. I'm not saying they are wrong and I'm right - it's something you need to decide for yourselves. I would never buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first, I would never buy a house without viewing it first, I wouldn't marry my hubby until we'd lived together either.

Whichever route you decide to take, and whichever country you decide to settle in, I wish you all the best.

Diny

[Annierobrigado]

i love reading your posts diny, no nonsense and full of common sense. you may have been talking to roadrunner, but since i am also on the road to emigrating to nz, it helped me a lot too! to read about other people's views, especially from those who have actually been to nz is one advice i definitely would want to pass on!

take heart roadrunner, many of those who wish to migrate to nz are really leaving the rat race behind to live in a place with similar values, mostly less consumerism and more time to see the family grow up and make new units. as i've said before, about 45% (i think) of filipinos would want to make a new life somewhere, and most of them automatically think of the US as the country of choice to migrate to. However, because of certain issues and circumstances that the US have found itself in, the land of the free and home of the brave, although may still be what it is, is no longer that attractive for migrants. AND it's so hard to get a visa to the uS nowadays. I think america has become paranoid.

So we'd rather go to a place that would actually welcome us, and acknowledge that our skills and education would be of use and benefit to the country we wish to live in for the next years of our lives. and that the people in that country who are natives and migrants as well are cognizant of the fact that migrants are people like themselves, so do not act arrogantly or snootily towards the people who don't look like them.

hope to see you soon, roadrunner, in nz! Will wile e. coyote be far behind? :laugh :laugh

:cheers
annie

[Beach Kiwi]

Is NZ really as backwards as many have commented?


I don't know why people still think this of New Zealand. Sure, we have values and a way of life that many countries 'lost' a number of years ago, but as far as virtually everything else I think we're just as 'advanced' as anyone else. Our communication networks are as advanced as any Western nation, and, in some ways, more so, due to the fact that we're a small, 'wired up' country, which enables us to integrate new technologies quickly and easily. (I used to work for Telecom New Zealand, which is why I know this to be true), Broadband, wireless and other forms of internet connection are widely available, as is satellite TV. In many areas you can get at least six free to air TV channels, and heaps more pay per view.

Supermarkets and large shopping malls can be found all over the country, and can hold their own with those found in any other country. Sure, they may not be as flashy as the top ones in the big industrialised nations, but what do you expect to find in a country with only four million people anyway? Granted, our selection of goods may not be as wide as that found in Europe and America, but that's also due to our size and location. However, I bet the quality of our food is better than most other countries, as it isn't grown in worn out, chemical 'infested' soil, isn't genetically modified, and isn't processed in 'suspect' processing plants. I feel far more confident eating New Zealand grown food than that grown in virtually any other country, with the exception of Australia, of course, as their 'techniques' are almost the same as ours.

Transportation-wise, we aren't too bad, either. The rail system is, at last, going to get a much-needed upgrade. Air travel is good - most places can be 'accessed' by air. Modern jet liners and turboprops link the main centres, with smaller regional carriers doing the rest. Most larger towns and cities have quite good public bus companies, although they tend to be under-used, as most people prefer to use their car to get around. If you prefer taxis, there are heaps of them in the big cities; thanks to the taxi industry getting de-regulated a number of years ago. Our car 'fleet' is quite modern, with most cars on the road being under ten years old. In comparison, Australia's car fleet is probably about 6 to 8 years older, as they don't allow used imports from Japan, and hence tend to hold onto their cars longer than we do. The price of similar second-hand cars is more expensive in Australia as a result.

Anyway, I could go on for pages more, but you get the idea. We're not some 1950's backwater anymore! ;)

[Diny]

Beach Kiwi

Brilliant posting, I'm sure anybody who hasn't actually visited NZ before will find it very informative. I agree with everything you've stated (except the bit about the food being better and no chemicals).

When people state that living in NZ is like living here 30 years ago, I'm sure they think that NZ still has the same 'level of technology' as we had 30 years ago.

Good on you.

Diny

[veronica]

I totally agree with Beach Kiwi on the technology front etc......BUT it seems to me to be a fair comment that most Europeans/Americans would perhaps have the home comfort factor in their minds when making these comments. It is fair to say that the condition of a lot of houses here is the same as it was in the UK over 30 years ago. ie. heat one room with a log burner or heat pump, keep the door shut and all spend the evening in one room where its warm, then race down a cold hallway to a cold bedroom and jump into bed. Not my idea of a comfortable existance. The idea of no insulation or central heating is unthinkable to a lot of us. And while I will accept the fact that parts of NZ perhaps don't need it I can't get my head around the idea that the south island doesn't need it just because the Auckland contingent can get by without it. It does get cold here and I can't see the heroism in the 'we're Kiwis we can take it' attitude.
There are many sorts of central heating coming on the scene now and the one that has caught my attention is an underfloor system that is a mat that lies direct under the carpet, it seems easy to install in this form and there are more conventional under tile and underfloor heating systems about that I would look at if I was building from new. I won't accept the arguement that its cold because the houses are timber/tin. A lot, if not most of the houses in Nth America and Canada are of this construction and because they are insulated to a very high standard they are warm. The first job of any house buyer here would be to look into insulation, underfloor, roofspace and cavity wall, its all available. My view of the situation anyway.

[Diny]

That under carpet heating sounds like a brill idea. What is the brand name - is there any info on web about it? I'm very interested.

I second your comments about there beingno heroism in the "we're Kiwis we can take it" attitude. It's just blooming stupid.

Diny

[Radders]

I'm sure this has been on here before, but there's a saying about Kiwi's moving to OZ.... They raise the IQ of both countries.
I find OZ is a lot like France, a wonderful country, just a shame about the inhabitants!! :P

[RoadRunner]

Thanks for all the great replies.

Quote from Radders "I find OZ is a lot like France, a wonderful country, just a shame about the inhabitants!"
Well I've lived in France so that settles it: NZ it is!

Honestly, I think we feel that NZ is worth the gamble - even without a visit (although I'm guessing we'll have to take a trip there to secure a job so the trip would serve a dual purpose). Worst case scenario is that we find it is not the kind of place where we'd want to spend the rest of our lives. Meanwhile, we can travel around and enjoy the country before moving on to another place. (Best case scenario is that we become Kiwis!)

It's good to hear about the telecom situation - while we want a slower paced lifestyle and so on, it would be very hard to give up always on broadband.

Quote from Annie "hope to see you soon, roadrunner, in nz! Will wile e. coyote be far behind?"
Probably not! :laugh
I hope to meet everyone this year!

[feeble]

Wow I've been reading like half an hour to get through this post. It's been a while since I've posted, bu that's just because NZ keeps me busy every day. And I'm not just talking about getting things organised, it's just the outdoors that has UNLIMITED opportunities here. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It still seems that many people who are migrating are hoping to find every comfort they had back home plus a lot more in NZ. Well it's always a process of giving and taking. I've only been here for two weeks and the feeling I'm having now is that I never want to leave.
Salary? I guess it depends on what you're doing but mine's just great!
Houses? If you take your time to look out for something, there are definitely decent well insulated housed to find. Don't rush into things.
Communications? Well hey I'm writing this on a broadband connection, what else do you want!?!
As for goods, there may be a little less choice in supermarkets and stores, but guaranteed that the quality is top!
Maybe it's just that I'm not a very demanding person but I find NZ a very easy place to live.
Things ARE different, but isn't this all part of that great adventure. People who're coming here and expect it to be the same as back home and better, well...guess again.
It only shows that people are more materialistic then they would want to be or that they don't realise it. Of course you need money to be able to live and I also like my share of things, but giving some things up and getting better things in return, well that's works just fine for me.
At the end of the day it all comes down to what you really want, and my advise to people is : figure it out first before you take such a step.
I know for myself that I've made the right choice.
I don't want to sound too harsh but it IS a big step and it IS something that needs te be given a lot of consideration.

[chuchi]

Nice thoughts said there, Feeble! :clap

I hope that one day we'll be able to tell ourselves (with conviction!) that we've made the right decision.

I'm looking forward to the "unlimited opportunities" that the outdoors have to offer. That's one of the reasons why we want to move to NZ. We love to bike, hike, jog and just look at new sceneries.

Hope to see you one day in NZ!

[RoadRunner]

Feeble, Glad to hear you are having such a great experience! :yes

"Things ARE different, but isn't this all part of that great adventure. "
Definitely!! When I lived in France, I found that having a positive attitude and a willingness to try new and different things made the experience so much more fun.

My husband and I have been talking about moving overseas for the last several years so as we get close to finalizing our plans, it is wonderful to hear about the success stories.

[Diny]

We all follow each others journey from start to finish on this forum. There's very few members who decide to return home.

There's plenty who find things very different to what they expected - some things better - some things worse - but the vast majority stick it out and eventually realise that they've made the right decision.

It's been said SO MANY times - and it's an expression I hate (but I still use it) ............ it's those blooming rose tinted specs that cause all the problems.

Of course we're going to concentrate on the positive aspects that any country has to offer. We'd all look rather foolish if we constantly spoke about how 'dreadful' a place is and then proceed to move there.

Things will be different. Some things will bowl you away with how wonderful they are. Other things will also bowl you away - but in the opposite direction. We all have our own reasons for moving to NZ. We are all individuals who will find the immigration process very different to the person next to us. It's all down to attitude and realistic expectations.

Diny

[Beach Kiwi]

Beach Kiwi

Brilliant posting, I'm sure anybody who hasn't actually visited NZ before will find it very informative.

Thanks! :mrgreen:

I agree with everything you've stated (except the bit about the food being better and no chemicals).

Well, I look at it this way. NZ has comparatively 'virginal' land on which to produce food, be it crops or livestock, whereas Europe has well used land that is subject to higher levels of airborne, waterborne, and soil-borne pollution.

[Beach Kiwi]

It is fair to say that the condition of a lot of houses here is the same as it was in the UK over 30 years ago.

True, but they aren't going to knock them down and start over for at least another fifteen or more years, so we're stuck with them. Houses built in the last twenty years are generally better off as regards insulation and heating considerations though.

ie. heat one room with a log burner or heat pump, keep the door shut and all spend the evening in one room where its warm, then race down a cold hallway to a cold bedroom and jump into bed. Not my idea of a comfortable existance.

Personally, I don't see the point in heating rooms all night that you may only use for a few minutes at a time. Not very good for energy conservation either. ;)

'we're Kiwis we can take it' attitude.

It's not part of our 'history', so we don't really see it as a problem. That doesn't mean we don't like complaining about the weather though! :mrgreen:

Anyway, there are a number of options available for retro-fitting insulation into an existing house, so you should be able to make almost any house more cosy if you want to - Pink Batts are one form you can look into. They're glass fibre blanket-type things that go into ceilings and walls. :nice1

[leslie]

people people people - lest we forget

new zealand is a squillion miles from the nearest ikea. it has a tiny population and requires taxation to fund its high standard of living. it is not a consumer economy in the modern sense and distance will ensure both realities hold fast. if you like big name trainers and designer labels bought in the little boutique around the corner you will need to adapt your shopping habits or take a third job.

my kiwi ex does something completely diff than formally educated for, in a nz market that gets the !@£$%^& kicked out of it every few years. he rode out the worst (several times) and has flourished. like anywhere, graft, motivation and smarts are justly rewarded. it took 10 years to get a sound footing and he will have to watch the scene but he is doing EXTREMELY well.

to a certain degree it probably comes down to how confident you feel in your ability to create rather than consume. maybe we're just nuts??? we slept on a mattress on floor for 1 year while we designed and had made our ideal bed. have never slept so well as now - its a perfect, practical bed - and am delighted that we 'made our own bed to lie in'. v satisfying. when we get to nz we will look around for a bit, see what opps are available and then put something in motion. we will experience discomfort but in the end...

[veronica]

It doesn't matter where you come from and where you go to. when you go to live in another country you have to go with an open mind and be adaptable. Some differences are for the good and some for the worse.
You just have to 'suck it and see'.
Diny, I will look up the info on that heating, its back at the ski/snowboard shop and we are working and living at the hostel at present, so next time we go over there I will get it and post it.

[Juniper]

is it really that unreasonable to expect to succeed financially in NZ? i realize it's all a matter of what your skills and situation is, but must we assume that we will become poorer if we try to continue with the same careers and lifestyle?

my husband and i are both in the computer software industry, specifically games. he owns a small business that has potential to make some nice international $$$, while i could use my art skills in a number of creative professions. we've done well enough to buy a house and a nice new car, while keeping ourselves nicely fed and entertained. we also enjoy performing (dancing, singing, acting, whatever) in our free time, so an arts community is also important. (we really are very california i guess :laugh )

to us, the "simple life" isn't about taking up animal husbandry or changing most of our habits (comparable substitutions are acceptable ;) ). rather, it means one where we are not constantly worrying about the administration and the popular mindset that supports it.

would it be so very hard to get the same kind of lifestyle in wellington? assuming we can afford to get over there, maybe have a house deposit saved, will it be that hard to start rebuilding to a similar standard of living? i'm trying to learn all the things we'd have to give up or change, so it's not such a shock.

i am dissapointed to hear about the sense of humor thing...no silly weird friends to goof around with? maybe some dry humor at least? if NZ humor was a TV show, which would it be :P

we haven't decided whether to emigrate or not, which is why it's great to hear some brutal truths. we'd stick around in california and enjoy our great lives (even if it is jaw-droppingly expensive) except for the mind-numbing stress of living in a nation that is going downhill in every way. we are coming up on 30, and would prefer to set up our future family for a good life (pleasant, clean, well-cultured, well-taught, fun-loving good life).

i guess the biggest concern might be, is it really hard to work up the money to fly home every year? maybe only every other year...?

so to sum up, does all this give you the impression of someone who'll be sorry they came, even after a couple years? i almost expect the (hypothetical) kids to get bored and want to come to america, just to contradict us and immerse themselves in all the available junk...but from my perspective, i like the way NZ seems to have its head on straight. i want to live in a country that is trying to stay pleasant, clean, well-cultured, well-taught, fun-loving...

[Beach Kiwi]

is it really that unreasonable to expect to succeed financially in NZ? i realize it's all a matter of what your skills and situation is, but must we assume that we will become poorer if we try to continue with the same careers and lifestyle?

Wages here are less than in America, that's a fact. However, we only have 4 million people, so we can't really afford to pay American-sized wages. But, if you're good at what you do you can still make a damn good living. (lot's of people seem to be running around in BMW's, Mercedes, Audis, etc, nowadays, more than ever before!) ;)


my husband and i are both in the computer software industry, specifically games... while i could use my art skills in a number of creative professions...we also enjoy performing (dancing, singing, acting, whatever) in our free time, so an arts community is also important.

would it be so very hard to get the same kind of lifestyle in wellington?

Wellington is probably one of the best places for both your computer and lifestyle 'components' - Auckland being the other - although Wellington is probably NZ's arts and culture 'capital'. Peter Jackson lives and works there too! :nice1

i am dissapointed to hear about the sense of humor thing...no silly weird friends to goof around with?

What? I think that's a South Island thing, as North Islanders are pretty strange, maybe even too strange for your average American. :mrgreen: Mind you, no one's going to act barking with someone they've just met, especially if they appear to be tourists! ;)

would prefer to set up our future family for a good life (pleasant, clean, well-cultured, well-taught, fun-loving good life).

I think New Zealand might be worth investigating! ;) :mrgreen:

[veronica]

I've found most of the Kiwis I've talked to have a good sense of humour, a bit self derogatory at times, perhaps it depends on the person they are talking too, maybe that determines whether they want to joke around.

[Dave & Sandra]

Hi Feeble

Really glad to hear that you're settling in well and enjoying life in NZ. :nice1

Sandra

[Moorf]

I'm with Veronica on this one - most of the Kiwi's we've met have had a wicked sense of humour !!

[Diny]

Shunt up - I want to jump on this bandwagon too. I agree that the majority of Kiwis have a damn good sense of humour. I find it to be very dry, yes self derogatory and often sarcastic - but still funny.

The first thing that attracted me to PB was his ability to make me laugh, believe me, I would NEVER consider spending the rest of my days with a humourless drongo.

Diny

[leslie]

when my friends lived in finland they paid a minimum70% tax. had a fabulous life though, and on leaving kept a property there so they have the option of going back permananetly when practical.

the thing i hate about taxation is when your hours are simply hoovered up into a vortex of someone else's spending never to be seen again. like crap mp's second homes and generous pensions (couldn't we euthenise the under-performers and release the funds to the public pension fund???). in uk we are, as a self-employed family, smacked on every possible level, every step of the way. living elsewhere taxpayers could expect at least some return for their output. most of my friends have been shocked by the way we are beyond pay-per-use and into some sort of sacrificial lamb scenario. am starting to think gov't wont be satisfied until we start flailing ourselves in front of an out-sized image of tony lying naked in bed with the queen. just hope they dont put it on the billboard around the corner because putney traffic is bad enough without a whole new genre of wailing taxpayers...

i may be wailing about nz taxation/ cost of living when the sterling runs out but if so i'll be doing it on a beach, drinking decent water breathing clean air that hasn't passed through english tories and somehow i believe that will work for me.

[Beach Kiwi]

i may be wailing about nz taxation/ cost of living when the sterling runs out but if so i'll be doing it on a beach,

You'll be paying between 15 and 39c in the dollar as a working individual, or self-employed small business owner.

Click here (http://www.ird.govt.nz/individuals/receivingtaxableincome/taxobligations.html) for more information from the Inland Revenue Department.

Main page of IRD (http://www.ird.govt.nz/)

[Juniper]

Wellington is probably one of the best places for both your computer and lifestyle 'components' - Auckland being the other - although Wellington is probably NZ's arts and culture 'capital'.

well at least we aren't barking up the wrong tree...we aren't exactly city people (quite the opposite), but seems like the big centers have what we need...plus you can still live in the woods and have a short commute!

North Islanders are pretty strange, maybe even too strange for your average American. :mrgreen:

thank god we're not average americans :laugh we santa cruzians take weirdness seriously...we have bumper stickers evangelizing the cause, "keep santa cruz weird" hehe...normality gets me down :P

thanks for the encouraging words!

[Jo and Andy]

"Honestly, I think we feel that NZ is worth the gamble - even without a visit (although I'm guessing we'll have to take a trip there to secure a job so the trip would serve a dual purpose). Worst case scenario is that we find it is not the kind of place where we'd want to spend the rest of our lives. Meanwhile, we can travel around and enjoy the country before moving on to another place. (Best case scenario is that we become Kiwis!) "

I agree with this comment, while a visit could prove so useful is some ways, we would also have a "holiday view", having looked through a lot of information, (probably not enough), I agree with RoadRunner, and that is why I am doing my application. I am not 100% sure it is the right decision but until you do it you cannot be sure.

Main worry for me is the housing, sure husband will get a job, daughter will settle in school, hopefully I will find a job too, make new friends and experience a new part of the world.

Scandinavian houses are wood and warm and not full of condensation, there is a high number of sunshine days, why not solar power? All things to look at when I am there.

Rose tinted glasses maybe, but where would we be without them.

Dinny, find your responses very useful, thanks.[quote]

[pleccy2000]

it is not a consumer economy

Yes it is. Marketing and advertising here is as much as in London. Informercials dominate the television, and brand names are being pushed left right and centre.

My definition of a non consumer ecomony would not be New Zealand, but more of the like of a county such as North Africa. I fear that your jugement of New Zealand is somewhat coulded.

[Moorf]

... yep, NZ alot more "consumer" that I thought it would be.. and those bloomin' infomercials. Considering the low salaries I can't understand why the Malls are so huge and so packed!!

[veronica]

when we first got here our son in law said that shopping was a national pastime. we just sort of took it on board and didn't think about it too much, but now when I can't park in the mall carpark when I go to get the food shopping I know exactly what he means.