[emotony]

Hi - we are a professional gay male couple (doctor and public health manager) living in Buckinghamshire who are considering moving to NZ. We have a comfortable lifestyle in the UK with good income and worklife balance. Travel to work is 30 mins and 7 mins respectively. We are not sporty but do regular exercise, and don't have children.

The question we're interested in, is what would be the draw to moving to NZ? What are your positive and negative experiences of living in NZ?

We look forward to hearing your views :)

Tony and Emile

[Debbie P.]

Hi Tony & Emile,

Welcome to the forum. Good question! Can I ask one in reply - what has prompted you to think about moving to NZ? If we know a bit more about the possible reasons why, people who are already there will be able to give you some tailored comments. I'm not there yet, but here are my reasons:

For me & OH, it's about 2 things: scenery (we love the place) and being somewhere less crowded - especially being somewhere less crowded OK, we're unsociable gits(!), but there's nothing we love more than a deserted beach or a hill walk with no one else in sight.

For OH in particular, reducing commuting time - he'd kill for a 7 min commute. He cannot STAND the amount of traffic here in the south of the UK.

And, for both of us, to do something adventurous before we feel too old to do it... and to have a plan to move back if it doesn't work out for us.

[speckythecky]

Emile and Tony,

Welcome to the forum.

Great Q. I can't answer most of it because we are not there yet, but one of the reasons we want to go is the space, outdoor life and more relaxed atmosphere.

I must say that, with your commute times and secure well paid jobs I might be tempted to stay in UK but I finish a very insecure job in 4 weeks time where I have been displaced 13 times in 15 years and have had long commute times for most of the 15 years. So I decide to take my redundancy money whilst it was available and see what was available on the other side of the world.

Good luck it whatever decision you make.

[dharder]

We have a comfortable lifestyle in the UK with good income and worklife balance. Travel to work is 30 mins and 7 mins respectively. We are not sporty but do regular exercise, and don't have children.

Sounds all perfect to me, no idea what would tempt one away from a 7 min commute :)

Welcome to the forum, and good luck with the decision making :)

Daniela

edited to add that I am only going because OH is homesick, not because I see any inherent advantages of the NZ over the UK, but someone more enthusiastic about relocation will be able to 'sell' the place better :)

[emotony]

Hi Debbie

There are several reasons why we are thinking about moving to NZ.
1. The weather...I have lived here for 20 years (came from SA) and I don't think that I could take another winter: the grey days, naked trees, dark mornings and afternoons...it can be so depressing.
2. I work for the NHS and hate my job in public health. The NHS is being privatised by the back door and is becoming so much more political, especially with the impending split of the NHS with the commissioner and provider organisations being formed. I would much rather be instrumental in making a real differences to people's lives, in a way that is not possible for me to do at present.
3. The disaster with the current doctor recruitment process has left Emile feeling very disillusioned with the NHS.

Why NZ in particular?
1. English speaking
2. Liberal laws
3. Weather? although we're not so sure about that anymore!
4. Scenery

However, concerns are around:
1. The high cost of housing (much of it is not well insulated).
2. Restricted choice of things that we can get here quite easily, but probably not available in NZ.
3. Fears about hidden high cost of living and possible reduced pay.

[lockstock]

Hi Tony and Emile - welcome. My OH and I have been together 5 years and most of that time has been spent battling with his ex in court. She comes into the raving lunatic category. Anyway, we decided 6 months ago to give up bashing our heads against a brick wall and put ourselves first instead. We love the countryside, cricket and our animals - all of which can be appreciated in NZ. We'll be making our own friends, not inheriting each other's from our previous respective lives. (That's supposed to sound dead philosophical but doesn't quite make it does it?) Basically, we want to build our future without the interference of the past. Now we sound like gangsters on the run. I'll quit while I'm ahead:exit

[migratory birds]

As an American, any country that asks about "Partner" status on the application materials but not about the gender of that partner has advanced a notch in my book.

NZ has had a female prime minister (again as an American...I think it's time, after 225 years, we have a president in this country who is a woman or a person of color), a multiparty system (as opposed to our limited "two party but essentially the same party" system).

Nuclear-free zone - a reflection on the thoughtfulness of Kiwi lawmakers and citizens to respond to and foresee the problems that can come with toting heavy arms into a country or its waters

Ban on production or import of genetically modified foods

Climate (I am with you in your mad desire to experience something other than a grey, dark winter)

Slower pace of life (but worry that it may be a bit too behind the times with lack of access to arts and diversity in culture and food offerings - important for us as an interracial family and just one who appreciates what world cultures have to give to each other)

Best fishing in the world (from what I hear)

A national healthcare system (but I understand the pay for docs is substantially lower in NZ than many other parts of the world)

For me, it's also a desire to be a part of a culture other than the one I've lived in for the last many decades and to be nearer to the fibers that have been an integral part of the weaving of our lives together as a family (Asia)

[CjChris]

As an American, any country that asks about "Partner" status on the application materials but not about the gender of that partner has advanced a notch in my book.

NZ has had a female prime minister (again as an American...I think it's time, after 225 years, we have a president in this country who is a woman or a person of color), a multiparty system (as opposed to our limited "two party but essentially the same party" system).

Nuclear-free zone - a reflection on the thoughtfulness of lawmakers to respond to and foresee the problems that can come with toting heavy arms into a country or its waters

Banning of production or import of genetically modified foods

Climate (I am with you in your mad desire to experience something other than a grey, dark winter)

Slower pace of life (but worry that it'll be a bit too behind the times with lack of access to arts and diversity in culture and food offerings - important for us as an interracial family)

Best fishing in the world (from what I hear)

A national healthcare system (but I understand the pay for docs is substantially lower in NZ than many other parts of the world)

For me, it's also a desire to be a part of a culture other than the one I've lived in for the last many decades and to be nearer to the fibers that have been an integral part of weaving our lives together as a family (Asia)

Ditto...good points!!:nice1 :clap

[Debbie P.]

Yeah, well I would definitely be wary of expecting substantially better weather!

Did you consider Australia? Just thinking the weather might be more what you're looking for, plus would solve the poor insulation issue. I worry about levels of liberality in Australia though, particularly attitudes to ethnic groups and indigenous cultures.

Provided you don't mind a bit of rain(!), I agree with you on the rest - used to work in NHS and couldn't wait to get out. I hope someone on here working within the health service can give you some info on what it's like in NZ - it may be that their health services are just as stretched and as short of money as the NHS, but I could be wrong about that.

Good point from Lockstock - never really thought about it that way, but I guess it's true. In my case, escaping from my family - not that we don't get on, but it's stifling for the OH.

[srivett]

Climate: Fifteen years of Canadian winters have worn out their welcome. Whatever the weather in NZ, it's bound to be more pleasant than 6 months of snow a year and everything that comes with it!

Liberal laws: From everything I've read and my experience of visiting, the laws are very favourable re: the issues that concern me personally: women's rights, gay rights, immigration, voting. Other threads have mentioned racism, but since that's not something I've personally encountered while I was there, towards anyone, I can't really comment. Basically, I don't foresee a drop in my legal and personal freedom compared to Canada, and there aren't many other places in the world I could say that about right now, not English-speaking ones at any rate. It seems like NZ has equal rights without making a big deal out of it, and that's a big deal to me.

Scenery: It's beautiful, and varied. I can experience everything from alpine mountains to desert to tropical rainforest within a few hours' drive.

Population: I crave a smaller population around me. The chance to really experience nature without the risk of encountering huge weekend crowds, and all within easy reach. (Debbie put it really well!) Admittedly, I could simply move to a smaller town, but that's where my other reasons for choosing NZ tip the balance. In any case, I'm looking forward to living in a country that has fewer people in it than my current city!

Wildlife: This might be a silly thing to say, but the native trees and animals feel more like home to me than the N. American variety. I look at the flora and I feel happy. I feel a connection that I haven't felt since living in Australia as a kid and feeling the call of the gum trees. Once OH and I decided against Oz - political reasons and she didn't like the climate or the spiders/snakes - NZ was the top of the list. Also, no rabies or dangerous land animals, which makes it a safer environment for us and our pets.

Family: I left my extended family behind in Oz when my immediate family moved to Canada. I'm very close with some of them, and living in NZ will enable me to visit them much more regularly than now. On the flip side, I'm no longer close with my immediate family, nor is my OH, with hers or mine, so being further away from them is actually a benefit, and healthier for everyone involved.

Environmental Awareness: I'm being re-educated on this issue by other people here (:)), but I still feel that NZ's direction when it comes to the environment and related issues is progressive. It's committed to the Kyoto Accord (unlike Australia), and its attention to sustainable agriculture and technology, while limited right now, is growing. Also, being such a small country, it gives me an opportunity to get involved with some hope of making a difference. The smaller population means any effort goes further, faster. I admit it, I'm an idealist, but I think NZ has a good agenda and a good chance of realising its potential when it comes to eco-awareness.

The People: They're just friendlier, and more in tune with my way of seeing the world. There's a laidbackness that I like and feel comfortable with. I've never felt like a Canadian, and I haven't felt like an Australian in a long time. It hasn't affected my friendships, but there's always been that itch at the edge of my consciousness saying, "I don't belong here." I'm hoping NZ will be my chance to integrate, to really feel like a member of the country I live in.

Us: We're adventure-seekers. We're seize-the-day-ers. We love to travel. We're young and childless, which makes it a good time to try drastic changes. The slower pace of life that migratory birds mentioned appeals to us too.

Those are the main reasons, or at least the ones I can explain best right now. I hope it helps a little in your decision-making process! Any idea where in NZ you'd consider moving to?

[emotony]

Thank you all for your thoughts - they are very welcoming, helpful and heart warming :).

Suze: love your reply which has raised some very good points which we hadn't necessarily thought of. We are thinking of Wellington although hear that it is VERY windy and even has earthquakes :eek:

Debbie: We had considered Aus but decided against it on immigration issues, no recognition of Civil Partnerhship, and tricky registration for doctors.

As for Lockstock, I can empathise with you, my partner's parents don't even acknowledge my existence, thank God they're not in the UK!!!

But for those of you who are in NZ, what are your positive and negative living experiences?

[srivett]

We are thinking of Wellington although hear that it is VERY windy and even has earthquakes :eek:

Was definitely very windy when we were there, but I hear great things about the atmosphere. Not quite enough to draw us in when there are mountains and beaches elsewhere :)

I can empathise with you, my partner's parents don't even acknowledge my existence, thank God they're not in the UK!!!


My OH has the same trouble with my parents :roll It's all so immature and unnecessary. Me three for the empathising.

[srivett]

PS - You might want to check out some of the threads in the Leaving NZ forum. There's at least one recent topic there for reasons why people ended up not liking NZ and going home again.

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11331

A lot of it seems to be homesickness, family and friends.

[Ana&Steve]

Hi and Welcome, Tony and Emile!

For us it's a lot of what has already been mentioned. We started out a few years ago with an awe of the beauty we saw in pics and movies. Then we started learning about the people and politics and were intrigued on a new level. We have now been there twice and we just love the way we feel when we're there. We didn't think we'd like Welly, as all we had heard about was the weather, but the reality is we have never felt more comfortable in a city before. Wellington just isn't like other cities; you could walk across it in 30min, there are so many diverse people that no one seems to make time to be judgmental, and the vibe is awesome. I think we are ready to make a change and experience a different culture; we're young enough, we don't have kids, and we have friends in NZ that we miss. I am no longer under the impression that NZ is Utopia, but I feel we'll be making a change for the better:)
Good luck with your decisions,
Ana

[Lupin]

There are several reasons why we are thinking about moving to NZ.
1. The weather...I have lived here for 20 years (came from SA) and I don't think that I could take another winter: the grey days, naked trees, dark mornings and afternoons...it can be so depressing.
2. I work for the NHS and hate my job in public health. The NHS is being privatised by the back door and is becoming so much more political, especially with the impending split of the NHS with the commissioner and provider organisations being formed. I would much rather be instrumental in making a real differences to people's lives, in a way that is not possible for me to do at present.
3. The disaster with the current doctor recruitment process has left Emile feeling very disillusioned with the NHS.

Why NZ in particular?
1. English speaking
2. Liberal laws
3. Weather? although we're not so sure about that anymore!
4. Scenery

However, concerns are around:
1. The high cost of housing (much of it is not well insulated).
2. Restricted choice of things that we can get here quite easily, but probably not available in NZ.
3. Fears about hidden high cost of living and possible reduced pay.

Hi and welcome to the forum :)

I'm in Hawkes Bay and the weather is a vast improvement. The summer was hot and long with endles blue skies and the winter has been mild and short. I too wanted to escape the endless grey of the UK and I would suggest that if the weather is a motivating factor you strongly consider the Bay of Plenty, Northland, North of South Island (Nelson etc), north east North Island (Gisborne etc) and Hawkes Bay. Christchurch doesn't get as warm as these areas but also has many clear blue days.

A motivating factor for us leaving was that my husband as a newly qualified mental health nurse couldn't find work due to the massive funding cuts and some local issues. Ridiculous.

I'd say your motivations for choosing NZ are spot on but I'd be a little wary of (2) as liberal laws does not a liberal culture make, so you may perhaps be better off in one of the cities rather than smaller towns (but that would then potentially clash with your weather requirements). Having said that my medic sister in-law and her female partner lived a very happy 18 months in Rotorua.

Your concerns are probably correct, although if you have some equity to bring with you and two professional salaries with no dependants I'm sure you'll comfortably afford a really lovely home!! There are loads of threads on here about cost of living etc, so hopefully you can get some answers there but the general rule of thumb seems to be that to afford a comparable lifestyle you need to at least double your salary (from GBP to NZ$).

HTH :)

[gonzo]

Hi there,

As someone living in Wellington I would urge caution on two fronts. The weather in Welington is not a lot better than the Uk. Whilst as I write at 9am it is bright and sunny it is also extremely cold circa 7c. This week it has rained for the best part of 4 days and with a significant wind chill and southerly it feels much colder. If anything the NZ winter particularly in the south of the country drags on for much longer than in the UK-it can still be very cold in November and December here. NZ houses are not built to cope with the conditions (probably due to a fear of earthquakes particularly in Wellington) there is often little in the way of insulation and wooden houses are difficult to get warm and keep warm and I write as someone who is fortunate enough to have and be able to afford to run central heating.
Secondly the health system, although Wellington is building a new hostpital there are still significant budget constraints in the public health system and my own belief is that the skill shortage (although you would be helping to alleviate that!) means that long hours and pressure are IMHO not alot different to the UK although comparable salaries are considerably lower.
The private health system is very similar to the US and there is considerable pressure on everyone working in it to raise there chunk of revenue. By way of example I am currently being treated at a private hospital for a frozen shoulder which fortunately is covered by ACC but I have lost count of the times that people from that particular hostpital have phoned to offer me pain management consultations at $50 a pop. The Kiwi capitalist model is every bit as agressive and in your face as the system in the states, many people, particularly those it would appear who don't live in NZ seem to be of the view that NZ is a place where benevolent capitalism is the order of the day. Quite, quite wrong the fast buck mentality is ingrained in the national mindset virtually across the board.

And as for the liberal system - replace with total indifferance and I think you would be closer to the mark. Racism and minority bashing is alive and well!

Still these are just my opinions. I'm sure others will have a more generous and rosy interpretation of life in NZ to offer to you.

[granger]

If anything the NZ winter particularly in the south of the country drags on for much longer than in the UK-it can still be very cold in November and December here.

Sorry, got to disagree there. Speaking from the south (although not the deep south) the winter here is a lot shorter than in the UK. Someone on the forum a while ago said you just need to look at the vineyards, the olive groves and the lemon trees to know that you've got a different climate from Britain. The winters here are also a lot brighter and sunnier than in the UK. Days with lower termperatures tend to be sunny with v.little wind. The lack of wind plus sunshine can make for v. pleasant winter weather.

[Sam B]

The weather definitely seems better than the UK, there is a lot less drizzle and not so many endless grey days. There is plenty of rain, but it all comes at once in a torrent generally, followed by sun again - winter started late and has not been anywhere near as depressing, although our lovely old villa is FREEZING!!

I also escaped the NHS, where I was completely sick of the politics, the threat of redundancy, agenda for change (they still owe me back pay dating back to Oct '04, I'm not sure I'll ever see it). I'm employed by the Ministry of Education here and have a much smaller caseload and a lot less politics, but it feels like I'm working in the 70's sometimes, as the practice is way behind in my field.

I love the scenery, the variety, the birds, the plants and native species. I do miss English woods, bluebells, hedgerows etc. I don't miss the litter and the crowds. I don't feel hemmed in any more.

The lack of choice consumer wise can be irritating but isn't a major problem, there is enough choice, particularly in the bigger cities. There is a great cafe culture.

I thought it was going to be really liberal and feminist and all, but I got that wrong - it's just more a "whatever floats your boat" attitude than an enlightened one.

I really miss the post-modern cynicism of British TV and humour, and the arts in general. Maybe that's just me. But we download loads of British TV, we're watching Big Brother at the moment, so we cope.

I don't really miss my family (you need to meet them to know why) but I desperately miss my friends, and you probably will too.

[willsken]

If you are looking for perfection then you won't find it here in NZ. That being said I love it here and on a scale of 1 to 10 of it fulfilling the things I was hoping to achieve from my move, then I have to give it 9.

I wanted space, less crowds and I have this in spades. I wanted better weather and Hawke’s Bay certainly offers that. Today is sunny and bright and although I have a jumper on, my children are in tee shirts. I hated the months on end greyness of the UK and although we have the odd grey day here, bright and sunny is the norm. I wanted out of the consumer life style, the keeping up with Jones. I don’t spend for the sake of it here and as I’ve said before I just can’t put my finger on why that is. We have a good life here, better than in the UK. I feel far more relaxed here; the whole pace of life is slower. As someone said previously, there is a “she’ll be right” attitude and I like it.

[StevieD]

Hi guys, welcome to the forum.

There are some issues to your choice. I think the NZ health system is going through similar things at the moment, it is unfortunate that is just the way the world is going. Progress they call it.... but speaking to nurses and senior health staff last week they feel the same as you probably do about the NHS system.

Regarding the weather, it is definitely a lot better here in my book. Been sitting on the bench in the garden this lunchtime in a t-shirt in 16 degrees and the sun is lovely. OK, the houses can be cold, but the more modern ones are much better insulated and have DG. Heat pumps make heating a lot more efficient.

BUT, if you have a comfortable lifestyle in UK, then you really have to consider hard why you want to come to NZ. Yes, the scenery is amazing, the country is a lot cleaner and the air is fresh. All the stuff you see about NZ cannot be denied. We often find that it is the people who have had it good in the UK are the ones who seem to struggle most, maybe not all and maybe too general, but from what we have experienced personally, that is what we find.

If you just want to get out of the rat race though, certainly give it a thought.
You may want to keep away from Auckland though if that is the case. :)

Good luck in whatever you decide, I'm sure you will get plenty of help on this forum in helping you decide. Best bet is to head down here for a reccie if you can afford to take the time. Whilst this can help, it is not the same as living in a place, but at least it will give you an idea.

Steve

[swissmissdesigner]

Steve D:" You may want to keep away from Auckland though if that is the case."

Why is that Steve? Please explain it..
I love Auckland.

[gil]

Me too Swissmissdesigner! Auckland has nowhere near the rat-racey feel of parts of the UK, imo. People seem to work hard and play/relax hard too. Just off to sit in the hot tub with a glass of Pinot Gris.....

Gil

[dharder]

Why NZ in particular?

2. Liberal laws



Coming from the UK, I think the law is similar. Granted, NZ got there first, but currently, the law regarding same sex couples is pretty much the same. I'd say there's less of an attempt to actively promote equality in NZ as there is here (at least in the public sector), but that could just be my (very brief) impression.

For me, the law would not be a factor to move there, but it is a factor to not not do it, if that makes any sense.

Daniela

[srivett]

Less activism can be a good thing sometimes, especially if equality exists there legally already. You can be yourself without being expected to make a stand about it all the time. You don't have to be either ostracised or a figurehead of protest and activism. You can just be yourself and no one gives a toss. At least that's the vibe we got while travelling around on our reccy trip. We'll find out in a few months if it feels different to live there. That's not to say I wouldn't defend my rights if it came to it, but it's always nice not to have to.

[dharder]

Less activism can be a good thing sometimes, especially if equality exists there legally already... That's not to say I wouldn't defend my rights if it came to it, but it's always nice not to have to.

If this is in response to my post, my post probably didn't come across right.

When I mentioned actively promoting equality, I was thinking of the attempts, for example, that my employer (NHS) makes to ensure that rights of individuals are protected. This can be very clear explicit guidelines that any form of harassment at work including homophobic harassment is unacceptable. Also the effort they went through to make sure that everyone was aware of the changes when the civil partnership law came into force.

The issue of diversity is taken rather seriously here in the public sector, and even in the private sector I worked in before, 'diversity training' was mandatory (sounds grand, but really they were telling people to not be racist, sexist, or homophobic).

It is very important to me that the law is clear on this, and that there is anti-discrimination legislation.

I feel the need to be protected by the law, and that if someone is racist, sexist or homophobic in a public area like work, school, or medical care, the law says that they are wrong. And I can see that some of the same law in place here is in place over there. But I also would like work, school, medical care to be aware of it, and actively take a stand to promote that idea (that discrimination is unacceptable). To me, that is different from 'not giving a toss.'

It's been a long day (school summer fete...), so not sure if any of this makes much sense.

Daniela

[stu70]

As someone living in Wellington I would urge caution on two fronts... I'm sure others will have a more generous and rosy interpretation of life in NZ to offer to you.
Thanks for presenting it the way you see it. Cheers

[srivett]

Perhaps 'not give a toss' came out a bit more glibly than I intended. I meant it as 'not attract hostile attention'. I definitely support non-discrimination laws and programs that discourage harassment based on sex, race, orientation, etc. and it would be ideal if that were a ground-zero kind of attitude everywhere. I got the feeling, both in NZ and from posts here, that there was something of that attitude there - live and let live. Maybe it's indifference, maybe it's silent equality, I don't know. People should definitely have the support of the law when it comes to mistreatment in public places, whether they're a member of a minority or not (and isn't everyone, in one way or another?). I don't think we're disagreeing on that :)