[KD17]

Ok, this could be a little tedious, but I wanted to share this with you because I was surprised as the results.

I got Keith an Atlas for Christmas (boring, I know :? ) but it's got a lot of facts in it regarding general living for all countries, which I thought I would share with you all. It is a new 2004 edition so is as up to date as it can be.

Population
15 people/square km in NZ
243 people/square km in UK

Crime - Murders
4 per 100,000 population in NZ
3 per 100,000 population in UK

Crime - Rapes
20 per 100,000 population in NZ
16 per 100,000 population in UK

Crime - Thefts
6978 per 100,000 population in NZ
5533 per 100,000 population in UK


NZ spends more on Education and Health compared to the UK
NZ Inflation is said to be at 2.6% compared to 1.8% in the UK
Unemployment is 5% for both NZ & UK.

I think I will leave it there, but I don't know if you are as surprised as me at the Crime figures, which it says are rising. :uhoh

It does go on to say that "The quality of life in NZ is among the best in the world, in terms of access to basic necessities, and a pure, health, urban and rural environment".

That's not going to put us off at all. I am guessing these figures would come from the city areas and we plan on living rural.

Does anyone have any comments on whether this an accurate reflection of NZ life?


Keith & Debby

[Glenda]

I am also rather surprised at the crime figures given. It may not be 'safer' in NZ but I wonder if it 'feels' safer as the country is near enough the same size as the UK and there are less people, so the crimes are not 'in your face'.

I am also wary of statistics. IMO I think this country in particular has got into the habit of 'massaging' its figures. One of these seems to be to do with population - how come it seems to have stuck around the 60m mark now for about 20 years? Come on!!! :uhoh

[Daniel Park]

Hi there,

Let's look at these theft figures in a bit more detail! I used to teach geographical statistics up to A level so I know there are lies, damned lies and...

In fact there isn't much difference between NZ and the UK. If we convert the figures into more user friendly ones, we find that about 14 people in 200 have been victims of theft in NZ, compared with about 11 in 200 in the UK. That's only a difference of about 3 in 200, or 1.5 people in 100. Not much, is it? Not really.

Let's now convert them into actual totals. Assume NZ pop 4 million, UK pop 60 million: that works out at 3319800 thefts in UK, but just 279120 in NZ - which makes nearly 12 times more thefts in total in the UK. Now which do you think is safer???

Furthermore we don't know the timescale over which these different data were collected, and you can bet that a) they were collected in different ways and b) the atlas publishers probably used data from the 1990s at best, so that renders them effectively meaningless - sorry to disappoint! Maybe you should check that the atlas doesn't have West Germany in it, just to be on the safe side!!

But (and I think I posted this somewhere before) I have to admit that the only time I've been the victim of theft was in NZ!! We stupidly left a lot of gear in a car at the end of a remote track and surprise, surprise, someone helped themselves. So maybe 1.5 more people per 100 are just less security-conscious in NZ, thereby leaving themselves open to chancers. And I have to say that our experience of NZ police stations was way, way more pleasant than anything you might experience in the UK. My wife is a solicitor and has seen more SE London police stations than most, grim as hell. By contrast, the Christchurch cop shop was like the Hilton, and with service to match.

Dan (yeah, it's New Year's Eve and I'm stuck at work, can you tell?)

[Timbo]

I believe that part of the story behind the figures is that crime is reported more often in NZ and therefore gets recorded. An awfull lot of folk here in the Uk (united?? we wont go there aye), dont bother reporting what used to be regarded as quite major crimes like muggings because there is no longer much confidence in the police etc.
We definately felt a lot safer travelling in NZ than we do here.

[KD17]

If you break it down like that it sounds more "reasonable". You are probably right about the reporting crime bit too, I think an awful lot goes unreported in the UK.

It makes sense that people generally "feel" safer and end up leaving themselves open to it. They do that here in the IOM too.

I also read somewhere a while ago that the NZ police force and associated bodies are amongst the least corrupt in the world; and actually do help the general public :booby :angel

[Diny]

Very interesting statistics.

Some of the above comments made me smile. It's almost as though we refuse to have anything negative said about NZ.

I'm not pointing the finger - I'm as guilty as anybody. It's almost as though we have to justify our decisions to emigrate by by constantly waving the NZ flag and wiping our feet on the Union Flag.

Even when statistics are there in black and white, we feel the necessity to swap, convert and gerrymander them so they look favourable when viewed through rose tinted specs.

This is the 2nd time I've made this statement in so many days - but it really is a matter of demographics.

Diny

[veronica]

we were burgled here the other week and the feeling about going to the police from the locals was 'why bother, they won't do anything' so its likely that a lot of unreported crime happens here too, but we did the done thing and they did come out. There is crime here, I can't comment on the stats as I don't know them, but one of the things the list above doesn't show is the stats on poverty, there is a big lower socio economic group here and when you have that mixed with an alcohol culture there is always going to be crime. You can massage the figures as much as you like stating the total no. of thefts in uk but you also have to remember they are spread over a greater number of people and violent crimes against the person are usually within the same group/type of person. (I know thats not always the case) The stats shown wouldn't surprise me at all and if anyone can find the stats on poverty that may come as a surprise to some as well. Most of us on this forum seem to come from the middle of the income bracket and appear to be over the average IQ. (ok, ok I did say 'appear') not everybody is that lucky.

[Beach Kiwi]

*De-cloaks from his regular schedule of lurking in order to set the record straight* ;)

After doing a bit of digging I managed to find the most recent statistics for most of the aforementioned categories:

Murders: (2003-2004) 1 per 100,000 (Police statistics)
Theft: (2003-2004) 3110 per 100,000 (Police statistics)
Rape: 22 per 100,000 (2000 UN figure, as police stats don't actually separate rape figure from what they categorise as 'sexual assault' statistics)

Current inflation rate 2.5%
Current unemployment rate 3.8%

So things aren't so bad after all! :nice1

[Pakeha Boy]

Another damn statistic.......

Girl raped and stabbed in own home

01.01.05
A teenage girl was raped and stabbed after being woken by an intruder in her home in Wiri, South Auckland, yesterday morning.

Police said the 14-year-old was stabbed seven times about the body, dragged outside and thrown into a reserve next to the house.
She was found several hours later by her mother, who heard her calling.
Last night, the girl was reported to be in a stable condition in Middlemore Hospital after undergoing surgery.
The 1am attack at Gerona Crescent, Wiri, was particularly vicious, said Detective Senior Sergeant Sue Schwalger, the officer in charge of the case.
A 16-strong squad and specialists were investigating.
Police have asked residents who may have seen someone acting suspiciously to call the Papakura station on 295 0200.


A couple of months ago a prostitute was thrown out of a 7th floor tower blcok in Birmingham for not paying her pimp.

I guess viciousness is everywhere.

[Danpoll]

I have heard from various sources of the maori social problem, that gang wars and social drinking cause a lot of issues. Are maoris an oppressed population which would only cause the spiraling effects from that. I was thinking the other day that how difficult it must be to get drugs into New Zealand. Therefore if there were less drugs then less drug related offences. but Crime is evreywhere it is one of the crux of modern life. Though I believe crime rates in saudi and thailand are low. Could be something to do with cutting off your hands and lashings if caught.

But in the mean time would should just blame the home secratary

Dan

[Beach Kiwi]

I have heard from various sources of the maori social problem, that gang wars and social drinking cause a lot of issues.

There aren't really any gang 'wars' going on here, haven't been for years, but they do sometimes have what would be called skirmishes - that is, a car load from one gang may have a barney with a car load from another gang. Occasionally a few shots may get fired, but it's usually knives or 'blunt instruments' that are used.

Are maoris an oppressed population which would only cause the spiraling effects from that.

Hardly oppressed - although some of the radicals still seem to think they are! However, Maoris do account for about 40% of the prison population, which is a lot when they only make up about 10 - 12% of the general population.

I was thinking the other day that how difficult it must be to get drugs into New Zealand.

It still happens at most airports, but most of it gets intercepted now.

P, or methamphetamine based drugs, are the current major problem here, especially since almost anyone can manufacture them at home. The gangs are big players in P manufacture.

[Soon2baKiwi]

Anywhere there are human beings there will be crime but I do not believe that NZ is any way as bad as this. From the same size population base, up to yesterday we had NINE people shot and injured in the previous THREE days in Dublin and a few people stabbed (don't have the exact numbers on this) around the country. A young girl raped (snap) and a man who tried to stop a fight is now fighting for his life in hospital.
Happy New Year eh?

[KD17]

This particular Atlas doesn't show anything on poverty, and I'm not sure what would. It does say that only 14% of the population live rural, so 86% are "city" dwellers, with the inherent problems that go with that.

It also goes on to say that 77% of the population is European with just 12% being Maori.

This is a Financial Times, revised 2004 Atlas, so is as "trustworthy" as you can believe the FT :?

It's interesting to read all your experiences. I think it's very important to know both the bad and the good side before making such a life changing move. It's very worrying about the 14 year old being dragged from her bed in the middle of the night. :eek

We're lucky here in the IOM, there is 0.5% unemployment, very little "serious" crime, (but murders have happened) There is a heavy drink problem with the associated scuffles etc., but they are not at all tolerant here; the local paper makes amusing reading with people being arrested for defacing wheelie bins or swearing at the police. They have a policy here that if you are banned from one bar in town you are banned from them all. It generally feels quite safe.

I think being in NZ we will have to become more vigilant, as if we were in the UK or similar. I'm sure it's often a case of knowing where not to go

On a final "girlie" note - it says that NZ was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote in 1893 - now that has to be worth something ;) :nice1

[Diny]

It's true - NZ was the first country to give women the vote.

My father in law still spits feathers about it !!!! :nice1

Diny

[RoadRunner]

"It's true - NZ was the first country to give women the vote. "
AND, NZ has many women in significant positions of power today!!

I recently moved away from Washington, DC. We lived in somewhat constant fear of another terrorist attack (I'm sure many in England can relate): I carried a gas mask on the subway, I passed swat-style military with automatic rifles and bomb-sniffing dogs on the way to work every day, I worked close to Capitol Hill where there were many bomb threats and evacutations, my apartment building received notices about potential bomb threats... I realize this is not the same at all as experiencing a serious crime yourself but it is one thing I will be happy to get away from!

[Radders]

Reading the local papers over here, it doesn't take much to get in them. So any crime is routinely covered here. Road accidents are a favourite, I believe we had 9 people kill them or others on the roads over Christmas week, and all were covered on the national news. How many in the UK or US, and how many covered in the National press??
There are the same bad people everywhere, buit due to the smaller population over here, there are less. Yes there are problem areas, and gangs like the Mongrel mob, but who can say snap the fastest??
I was reading today about a guy who stopped to help a broken down car, and was stabbed, plus there's that girl stabbed and raped in her own home.

[Beach Kiwi]

It's very worrying about the 14 year old being dragged from her bed in the middle of the night. :eek


That happened in one of Auckland's more trouble prone suburbs, namely the south Auckland suburb of Wiri. That area has a high Maori/Polynesian population, and, as a result, tends to have a higher crime rate than other parts of Auckland. The person they're looking for is Polynesian, given the description that the victim supplied to the police.

[ruthyroo]

Have to agree with Diny that lots of people seem to feel duty bound to protect poor wee NZ against all the naysayers who threaten its pristine reputation!

Crime is a funny one because it's as much perception as reality. Here in Rotovegas, police statistics show that levels of crime are falling...but with the media jumping on every tourist mugging that happens and splatting it across the front page, no-one believes the police stats and perceives there to be a real crime problem. Hence to dodgy reputation of Rotovegas. Also it's a small country with a small population - crime makes the news regularly for lack of anything else to report!