[zardell]

Local context is so important when doing comparisons.
Jen




I was in Pak 'n Save the other day purchasing what was to me a HUGE bag (1kilo) of shelled prawns.

Now for all you Brits reading this, I'm not talking the teeny weeny prawns that might be used for a Prawn Cocktail. I'm talking big beggars, 2 inch long, shelled, uncooked prawns. They cost me about $23.

There was a guy stood next to me looking into the freezer at these prawns and he said that he said he couldn't believe how very expensive they were here in NZ.

It transpired that he was originally from Brisbane,Australia and he was used to buying prawns by the 12 litre bucket load (un-shelled admittedly) for $5 AUD !!

Horses for courses.............

Julie

xx

[Moorf]

Perhaps a thread for exposing generalisations about NZ is in order ;)

For instance, Diny's weather thread sure put paid to a few people's beliefs that you can generalise about the climate here! Not much you can argue with when people are posting cold, hard (and sometimes sunny, relaxing) facts!

[jess]

'We have a better lifestyle in NZ and have a very small (or no) mortgage' .....really? Do you live in a shed or a brand new mansion? So true. I was speaking to a migrant in my area who said it's hard to make it in NZ. I later found out she had a big mortgage for a house that costs around $800,000 for a family of 3. Nothing wrong with what kind of house they have, but I thought it was important in understanding their situation. $800K buys you quite a bit of house in Kapiti. Our 4 bedroom home here cost a little over $300,000. With the down payment we had we could have gotten a bigger mortgage from the bank, but the repayments and the council rates would have really stretched us.

Just to reiterate - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them buying a bigger house or that they should not move back home if they believe they will be better able to afford such a lovely home there. I'm just saying that when I was told NZ is too expensive, I didn't get the whole story. It's really hard to figure out what someone's opinion about financial life here will mean to you without knowing specific information about lifestyle and budgeting that, as Julie pointed out, you often don't get. The same is just as true if they tell you they are getting along great in NZ, but you don't know how much money they brought over.

There just isn't one right answer for everyone that it's alright in NZ or it's too expensive - there are too many factors involved.

We gave ourself a budget of $250 week for family of 5 (including 3 kids in nappies) and so far have been spending about $200, even with a few luxury items...biccies, nice cheese, chips & dips for weekend etc. I would be interested in how this compares to other peoples grocery spending? I'm quoting from my post on this thread (http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11162), which has quite a bit about grocery budgets:
I looked over our checking for April to date and we spent $617 for the month on food... That's buying mainly some fish for OH and lots of fresh veggies, milk, fresh bread, pasta & sauce, free range eggs, good cheese, Cadbury muesli bars, ginger ale, etc... (No meat and no alcohol).
That was for two of us. We're spending closer to $700/mo. now either due to rising prices, or quite possibly eating more in the winter. :o

[zardell]

Perhaps a thread for exposing generalisations about NZ is in order ;)




:eek:

Noooooooooooo - we can't do that !!!!!!

This thread has already made me admit that I'm a Pak 'n Save shopper - how many more home truths are you trying to force from me ???

I will never tell - NEVER !!

:D

Julie

xx

[willsken]

:eek:

Noooooooooooo - we can't do that !!!!!!

This thread has already made me admit that I'm a Pak 'n Save shopper - how many more home truths are you trying to force from me ???

I will never tell - NEVER !!


Julie

xx

That's the one thing I don't like about the town we live in. It doesn't have a Pac n Save or a Warehouse..... there, I've shamed myself along with you. Feel better now? :D :D :D

[Moorf]

If you're trying to get me to admit I bought knickers at the Warehouse then dream on....

:o

[willsken]

If you're trying to get me to admit I bought knickers at the Warehouse then dream on....

:o

Don't tell me if you had to go that low you'd rather make your own...... (was going to say you'd rather not wear any but that would just be tasteless!):D

[Moorf]

No, actually I meant I did buy knickers in Warehouse!!

I was, of course, heavily disguised.

:o

[Tia Maria]

Zardell wrote:

No poster is going to be 100% forthcoming with all the components that make up their personal lives and lets be honest here - why should they ?

Very good point!

Moorf wrote:

No, actually I meant I did buy knickers in Warehouse!!

I think it should be a rule that when we start talking about Moorf's knickers the thread should come to an end! :D

Cheers

Tia

[Moorf]

God, I've missed you guys!

:D

[zardell]

No, actually I meant I did buy knickers in Warehouse!!

I was, of course, heavily disguised.

:o





Oh the shame!!!!!!!!!!!


:laugh :laugh :laugh

Julie

xx

[zardell]

I think it should be a rule that when we start talking about Moorf's knickers the thread should come to an end! :D




Damn it - I was just getting into the swing of this thread............

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Julie

xx

[jo b]

I couldn't afford the WAREHOUSE!!:laugh

got my knickers from the charity shop!!!:exit

I agree with Zardell, she put it so much better than me about putting things into context..........apologies for loosing it and having a strop but I just felt it became a I can afford it here thread I think Moorf you ending yours with I just can't understand got me wound up because some people will never understand other peoples reasons for doing things.

Anyway we are all different and what is one persons pair of knickers is another persons rag!!!


Jo
x

[Lupin]

The thing is, ultimately we all could afford to live in NZ, it's just whether the standard of living is what you've moved half way round the world for and that varies hugely between individuals.

I'm pretty sure I'd be fine in the situation some have headed home because of, but then I've detailed my situation here so my bar is quite low, lol. The OP has no mortgage, has savings and money to make it through the month and yet feels this isn't sufficient to make him feel he's acheived his 'kiwi dream' or got the trade in for his old life he'd hoped for. Fair enough I suppose :)

The only thing I would add is that emigrating to another culture involves moving out of your comfort zone in many ways ...

[Moorf]

:o Sorry Jo, it wasn't something I wrote to cause a reaction. :no

I always, always take on board, and respect, what people say, I just don't happen to agree with some of it!

I really, really can't get my head around having what appeared to be a substantial amount of financial security not being enough here. I still don't. I can't argue with emotional/family/medical or other reasons because I have nothing to relate to but financially I can, even factoring in for children based on what others tell me.

It's hard to get across sometimes, when I feel so frustrated. I'm sure you can appreciate that! ;)

[willsken]

So with two incomes and no mortgage and substantial savings earning interest we assumed we might be able to afford a decent standard of living- I suppose that was mistake 1. At this point could I point out that we are not overly materialistic we don't drive expensive cars or have a penchant for designer clothes and expensive meals. But we still struggle, Heating, house maintenance and food are IMHO unbelievably expensive " relative to income"

Jo I don't have a problem with any reason people choose to leave NZ. Each to there own and I don't have a problem with the OP going because of money (if it was just that and I doubt it).

What I have a problem with is when statements like the above are made, it paints a completely untrue picture of NZ. It leaves people under a false impression and I don't believe that is in any way fair to those trying to make the move.

There will always be people who come here and struggle and they have my heart felt sympathy. It must be gutting to put so much effort into making this huge change in life only to realise it can't be done.

What I need from people making statements like the above are some clarifications/justifications. At the end of the day we are doing fine financially and we are nowhere near in that favorable position and I mean nowhere near!
:)

[jo b]

The thing is, ultimately we all could afford to live in NZ, it's just whether the standard of living is what you've moved half way round the world for and that varies hugely between individuals.

I'm pretty sure I'd be fine in the situation some have headed home because of, but then I've detailed my situation here so my bar is quite low, lol. The OP has no mortgage, has savings and money to make it through the month and yet feels this isn't sufficient to make him feel he's acheived his 'kiwi dream' or got the trade in for his old life he'd hoped for. Fair enough I suppose :)

The only thing I would add is that emigrating to another culture involves moving out of your comfort zone in many ways ...

Lupin

the cost of living isn't the only factor in him moving home. That was my point he had many other reasons not just the cost of living. And I feel this thread has taken just that particular piece and focused on that.

His kids wanted to go home, He had a hard time in his job where they treated him unfairly. and he probably had many more reasons he didn't add.

When I came back it wasn't JUST financial there were many other factors that added up to the decision.

If I was in his financial situation but didn't have all the other reasons I would have stayed too. The financial situation is only one piece of the jigsaw.

If your are happy and are just keeping your head above water then the financial situation doesn't appear a problem. If you are unhappy then financial problems become magnified.

Just my opinion, so if people don't understand why people can't survive on wages etc. then there are probably other under lying reasons adding to this viewpoint. Let me try to explain what I think may be happening as I experienced the same. The original poster is moving back, he is now comparing his savings/expenditure and converting them into £uk's just like everybody did in reverse when they moved to NZ. Everbody thought about how well off they would be with capital from house sale and exchange rates. He is doing the reverse.
He is now looking at what he can afford in the UK. So his viewpoint of expensive could be with a view that he is moving back not just staying. Some other peoples viewpoint is that they are happy and the finances aren't worrying them............could be because they are not moving back.


I hope I am trying to make myself clear here and I suppose going over what Julie said i.e. it is all very subjective and very personal view points.

I just thought it isn't helpful to the original poster who is probably going through emotional turmoil to have people posting on how they can't see why he can't survive here. He can but it is his emotional expenditure/finances that are suffering too.

Jo

[Moorf]

The reason I picked up on that particular reason, ie the money, is because he specifically said that they had lots of money/salaries etc and thought they could afford a decent standard of living and that this was "mistake one". That, to me, read like it was a seperate issue to the others he then went on to mention.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who read it like that, but apologise to Gonzo if any of my comments have been out of order.

[willsken]

I'm sorry Jo but I just can't let this drop. The only thing that was EVER disputed about this poster was this statement.

So with two incomes and no mortgage and substantial savings earning interest we assumed we might be able to afford a decent standard of living- I suppose that was mistake 1. At this point could I point out that we are not overly materialistic we don't drive expensive cars or have a penchant for designer clothes and expensive meals. But we still struggle, Heating, house maintenance and food are IMHO unbelievably expensive " relative to income"

This statement is insulting to the many people who have made the move on so much less. He would have had all my sympathy if he had made his post and 1. not included this or 2. clarified why on earth you couldn’t manage in this financial position.

This forum is not just about one person and why they can’t settle. There are hundreds hoping to make the move, where reading a statement like this causes a huge amount of stress and worry. I know, as I was one of the people left feeling like this when I was still in the UK

[Lupin]

Well I wasn't very clear then! Firstly I thought the OP could go home for whatever reason he wanted :)

I think all of us have a slightly different NZ dream and different aspects are deal breakers and that's okay.

However, I do think the OP is in a pretty priviledged financial situation and was perhaps insensitive to paint the impression that his situation made it hard to get by when most people here and coming here won't be so priviledged. No doubt his perception is coloured by his pre-NZ expectations and hopes and that's fair enough.

I think some people don't cope well outside their comfort zone and find fault with difference while others thrive and live for variety. Different strokes for different folks.

[zardell]

This statement is insulting to the many people who have made the move on so much less. He would have had all my sympathy if he had made his post and 1. not included this or 2. clarified why on earth you couldn’t manage in this financial position.

This forum is not just about one person and why they can’t settle. There are hundreds hoping to make the move, where reading a statement like this causes a huge amount of stress and worry. I know, as I was one of the people left feeling like this when I was still in the UK



So - over to you Gonzo..........

Oh and by the way, Moorf buys her knickers at the Warehouse..........;)

Julie

xx

[Moorf]

Oh and by the way, Moorf buys her knickers at the Warehouse..........;)

Careful, I've had nearly a bottle of red and Woz is close by with a cameraphone! :p

[nippa&pippa]

I'm sorry Jo but I just can't let this drop. The only thing that was EVER disputed about this poster was this statement.



This statement is insulting to the many people who have made the move on so much less. He would have had all my sympathy if he had made his post and 1. not included this or 2. clarified why on earth you couldn’t manage in this financial position.

This forum is not just about one person and why they can’t settle. There are hundreds hoping to make the move, where reading a statement like this causes a huge amount of stress and worry. I know, as I was one of the people left feeling like this when I was still in the UK

:yes
I been keep out of it but agree with this question 2 as there is four of us (nearly five of us soon) with low wage of $45k coming in and got mortgage and we are very happy & love it here! I wondering why he couldn't manage in their financial position, that need to be explain careful to other people who is thinking about coming to NZ?

[willsken]

Careful, I've had nearly a bottle of red and Woz is close by with a cameraphone! :p

Nooooo, I've seen their range! I couldn't take it!! :laugh :laugh

[nippa&pippa]

Careful, I've had nearly a bottle of red and Woz is close by with a cameraphone! :p

:laugh

[zardell]

Careful, I've had nearly a bottle of red and Woz is close by with a cameraphone! :p



I dare you.............

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Julie

xx

[Lupin]

Joking aside, I got The Best Pants (UK) Ever from Farmers when we first arrived. They are awesome so I bought 20 pairs.

[Moorf]

I'm pretty sure Gonzo is going to be more than mortified by the state of this thread without me and my kidney warmers making an appearance! :exit

[willsken]

Sorry, wine aside, this is sooo funny. 20 pairs Lupin? How long do your pants last!!! :laugh :laugh

And yes Morph, on a sober point (he he) sorry for ruining what really is a very, very serious thread. :uhoh :uhoh

[jo b]

Well I wasn't very clear then! Firstly I thought the OP could go home for whatever reason he wanted :)

I think all of us have a slightly different NZ dream and different aspects are deal breakers and that's okay.

However, I do think the OP is in a pretty priviledged financial situation and was perhaps insensitive to paint the impression that his situation made it hard to get by when most people here and coming here won't be so priviledged. No doubt his perception is coloured by his pre-NZ expectations and hopes and that's fair enough.

I think some people don't cope well outside their comfort zone and find fault with difference while others thrive and live for variety. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree to an extent he seems privileged but he doesn't state his income in comparison to others so therefore difficult to judge but I do agree with 'Different strokes for different folks' but it's different to everyone but emotional situations do put a different slant on things.'

[/QUOTE] by Nicola
This forum is not just about one person and why they can’t settle. There are hundreds hoping to make the move, where reading a statement like this causes a huge amount of stress and worry. I know, as I was one of the people left feeling like this when I was still in the UK.

Nicola this thread is about the op. Are you saying he can't have an opinion if it upsets other people, moving across the other side of the world causes huge amounts of stress and worry anyway. His statement and cost relative to income was disputed by the 'we can live here gang' no one else!! I was defending the op's corner by stating his finance views are always going to be skewed with his emotions on other factors. i.e When people are leaving the UK many (not all) use lots of excuses to 'get out of this place' many are not really relevant either just justifications on their part. You cannot look at that point in isolation for his sole reason for leaving as he never said that. You are all taking one point from the op and turning it into your own messages.
If the op wants to post let him post HIS views BUT then do not state they are not true (as in not being able to afford to live there) as you are not living his life.

I believe that the op's post needed to be said even if it did make people stop and think. It wouldn't have stopped me emigrating though.


[/QUOTE]
Fourthly, and I suppose most importantly my children have struggled to fit in. Despite joining in with everything school and after school orientated activities- rugby and a lot of other social clubs they have struggled to make what they would regard as good friends. I was always of the view that this might represent a problem but having moved around geographically in the UK they had always made friends in the end. This has not been the case in NZ, maybe it is a time of life thing and the people they are mixing with already have well established groups of friends but personally I am amazed how much of a struggle it has been for them despite their very best efforts. I have ferried other children to and from sporting activities but not once has any NZ family offered the same in return. They boys are currently on holiday in the UK and my elder boy is coming back to complete his final term prior to university and both my boys told me that they just do not want to get back on the plane.


This is what the poster says is his most important reason for leaving his KIDS
please please understand that these reasons alone for one would be good enough for me.

I am ducking out now because everyones views are subjective, and according to some posters if you can get you cabbage cheaper or grow your own then you should be ok in nz then!!. But I must say this as it is eating away at me.

I mean to get your fiends to back up the debate and say they lived in Yorkshire not South East and couldn't afford a mortgage, very subjective if you ask me and doesn't give everyone a true picture. If I remember right K&CS lived in Harrogate one of if the the most expensive place to live in Yorkshire. It's like me saying I live in Manchester and couldn't afford it, when really I lived in Alderley Edge, (for those who don't know Alderley Edge it has more millionaire sq meter than anywhere else in the UK).

So it's goodnight from me and goodnight from him

Jo

[Moorf]

I mean to get your fiends to back up the debate and say they lived in Yorkshire not South East and couldn't afford a mortgage, very subjective if you ask me and doesn't give everyone a true picture. If I remember right K&CS lived in Harrogate one of if the the most expensive place to live in Yorkshire. It's like me saying I live in Manchester and couldn't afford it, when really I lived in Alderley Edge, (for those who don't know Alderley Edge it has more millionaire sq meter than anywhere else in the UK).

Goodnight indeed - it comes to something when you have to resort to this sort of post. I'm not even going to bother justifying/explaining it either as those whose opinions on me I care about know me better than that.

You can always rely on certain people to drag it down to personalities and imply conspiracy.

[willsken]

Nicola this thread is about the op. Are you saying he can't have an opinion if it upsets other people, moving across the other side of the world causes huge amounts of stress and worry anyway. His statement and cost relative to income was disputed by the 'we can live here gang' no one else!! I was defending the op's corner by stating his finance views are always going to be skewed with his emotions on other factors. i.e When people are leaving the UK many (not all) use lots of excuses to 'get out of this place' many are not really relevant either just justifications on their part. You cannot look at that point in isolation for his sole reason for leaving as he never said that. You are all taking one point from the op and turning it into your own messages.
If the op wants to post let him post HIS views BUT then do not state they are not true (as in not being able to afford to live there) as you are not living his life.

I believe that the op's post needed to be said even if it did make people stop and think. It wouldn't have stopped me emigrating though.


I will dispute this, as what he said led people to believe that NZ is an extraordinary expensive place to live. It’s not. (By the way I’ve had PM’s from people very concerned about this after his post) Yes, compared to the UK or US for example things are expensive. I also NEVER at any point said he doesn’t have a right to post his views. But he will be questioned about them, make no mistake.

I will not be a part of this forum and see people make highly emotive posts regarding things that are NOT NORMAL. If he can’t live in this situation, fine, I don’t have a problem with this, but don’t come onto a forum, filled with people earning normal salaries and try and tell me that in his situation you can’t make a go of NZ. Sorry that’s crap.

Every other reason he wanted to go home I can relate to. A lot of people go back to the UK. Not a problem but why do they feel the need to put the kibosh on others? I just don’t get it. Most, if not nearly all the people moving to NZ on 2 salaries, even with a mortgage manage just fine. I will not sit by and see statements like the one made by the OP go unchallenged. If you have reasons to go back to the UK, fine, no problems and I wish you well. Just make sure if you want to be heard on a forum such as this one you can clarify things for people. Give and take I’d say.

[willsken]

Just out of curiosity Jo B you hated NZ didn't you? Still reading the forum..... very interesting.

[wiki]

If the op wants to post let him post HIS views BUT then do not state they are not true

Jo

I think the differing opinions on this thread can be distilled into your comment above.

I haven't seen anyone say that his views are not true for him - what they've been saying is that they're not true for a heck of a lot of people.

Just because he can't cope doesn't mean other people can't post and say that in the same financial circumstances they can cope very well. He's given a very sketchy financial statement (as is his right) but I have to confess I read it and thought "wow, I wish I had his financial problems" (very tongue in cheek)

Family and work concerns are different again - he's got valid reasons for going back but why are you so against people saying that they've not had the same experience than him?

If 10 people post to say they can't cope then newbies are going to be thinking that's how everyone is in NZ. If 10 other people then post to say they can cope then that becomes a balanced thread and readers can decided whose life they most match with and perhaps get a more valid idea of whether they can take a chance on NZ.

And to anyone who can't afford to live mortgage free with savings in Auckland I say - move south! Christchurch, Dunedin and Invercargill will free up your capital and cut down on your commute.

[willsken]

mean to get your fiends to back up the debate and say they lived in Yorkshire not South East and couldn't afford a mortgage

And just to be very childish..... we aren't. We are all quite normal.

[stu70]

You might have already heard: Henry Ford would say you could buy any color Model T you wanted, as long as it was black ! Hope folks like OP keep putting out their experiences despite the reaction from some quarters.

[auskiwi]

I think it has to be said that this entire thread just highlights the amazing emotions that come into play when we are making such an enormous life changing decision such as moving across the world. The passionate responses are coming from those who are making what could be one of the biggest decisions of their lives. It is any wonder that people are inspired to hotly defend their choices.

I think it can safely be said that we all have very individual reasons for moving to NZ and subsequently very different experiences once living in NZ. The one thing we ALL have is the courage and determination to give it a go - and for that we should all be respected.

I wish you all happiness-wherever that takes you.

Amy.

[Lupin]

Sorry, wine aside, this is sooo funny. 20 pairs Lupin? How long do your pants last!!! :laugh :laugh

A girl can never have too many pairs of pants Nic :laugh