[gonzo]

It's been nearly two years since we arrived in Wellington and we are now planning to return to the UK.
Most of the posts I have made have related to financial matters mainly pensions etc as that is my area of personal expertise. However for those people trying to make the decision on whether to come to NZ I thought I would at least try to explain the reasons behind the decision.
The background is as follows, we arrived in September 2005 on permanent residency visas- wife and I just under 50 at the time and two teenage boys who were 14 & 16 at the time.
My wife had visited NZ many times and her brother and sister have been resident here for the best part of forty years. My father in law who is now 90 came to stay with his son in law about a year before we came. I have to admit that I was somewhat reluctant as I was in a well paid job with a good social life and with a comfortable life style. My children were doing extremely well academically and also had a balanced healthy lifestyle with many friends. I should also mention that I had few health issues and the medicals had noted a few cardiovascular issues but these were not at the time significant enough to stop me gaining PR.
We were in the fortunate position of being able to buy a nice house without a mortgage and also have good amounts saved in the bank.
My wife managed to get a job almost immediately but it took me somewhat longer as I previously worked in a very specialist field, however after much persistence I managed to find a position with a well known and I am told respected NZ employer.

So with two incomes and no mortgage and substantial savings earning interest we assumed we might be able to afford a decent standard of living- I suppose that was mistake 1. At this point could I point out that we are not overly materialistic we don't drive expensive cars or have a penchant for designer clothes and expensive meals. But we still struggle, Heating, house maintenance and food are IMHO unbelievably expensive " relative to income"

Secondly, medical problems have exacerbated the situation my cardiovascular problems have worsened and we have faced significant costs for operations and procedures. Clearly as new arrivals we had no health insurance and the assumption appears to be that as immigrants you have a bottomless pit of resources to dig into- My own feeling is that there are two prices in NZ one for those "in the know" & one for those "off the banana boat". In the end after much persistence I did get treatment on the state system but was made to feel awful about it. Laughably it was the same consultant who performed the operation as had seen me in private practice and who had told me that it would never get done under the state health system (no conflicts of interest there then!).

Thirdly, work- NZ employers seem to feel that it is their right to get something for nothing. Employment conditions, job security and benefits are like something out of 1950s Britain, hours are unbelievably long & there seems to be a feeling that they have the right to make you drop everything, holiday and social plans included and do their bidding and then there is this so called national concern about skill shortages and hand wringing about why people leave for Australia or to work in the UK and never return (yes weally to pinch a line from a current tv advert), deference to ones employer is de riguer. It wasn't until I went to a leaving party the other night that I found out that the Kiwi working for me (I was brought in because he had made a mess of things) was actually earning more (considerably more) money than me. When I challenged my employer they appeared to be more concerned about who had leaked the information and although they then offered me the increase seemed to be of the view that it was OK as "you are already well off" even the personnel officer who was asking me why I had given my notice in did not seem to be able to comprehend why I found this offensive and gave me lecture about how difficult and expensive it would be to replace me. Bizarre !!!

Fourthly, and I suppose most importantly my children have struggled to fit in. Despite joining in with everything school and after school orientated activities- rugby and a lot of other social clubs they have struggled to make what they would regard as good friends. I was always of the view that this might represent a problem but having moved around geographically in the UK they had always made friends in the end. This has not been the case in NZ, maybe it is a time of life thing and the people they are mixing with already have well established groups of friends but personally I am amazed how much of a struggle it has been for them despite their very best efforts. I have ferried other children to and from sporting activities but not once has any NZ family offered the same in return. They boys are currently on holiday in the UK and my elder boy is coming back to complete his final term prior to university and both my boys told me that they just do not want to get back on the plane.

Finally, money grabbing superficiality - need I say more, if you think the UK is bad then you are really in for a shock in New Zealand - hard sell is very much the order of the day everyone is happy and smiley until you say no. I think NZ is to a large part - to use a well known expression used here- a rort.

I suppose I will end the post with the usual disclaimer that everyone seems to find mandatory when saying anything even slightly critical about NZ i.e "these are just my comments and others will feel differently" The purpose of this post is simply to express my criticims, it is not an attempt to write a balanced thoughtful piece about the pluses and minuses of life in NZ it is merely to say that despite the many advantages that we have had we are unable to "cut it here" and that I personally would recommend that anyone from the UK think long and hard before burning their bridges lest your new life fails to work out. I know many will simply say that this is a typical whinging pom attitude, well if it is then so be it
I am extremely glad that I at least have the financial wherewithal to return to the UK. Several people I know that have been here for years say that they would love to return to the UK but simply cannot afford to as a result of the disparity in house price movements and being at the mercy of an extremely volatile exchange rate. For at least some the surge in the NZ dollar may provide that opportunity I only wish that it was stronger against sterling than it has been against the US Dollar

[mish&al]

Good luck with your move Gonzo, I genuinely wish you well.

Sometimes there is no need to gloss over the facts-we need to hear the realities of life as it is.

We were going to move over in January, from Sydney, but after my fourth trip recently I flat out refuse, better the devil you know..I am just not prepared to take pay cuts by half, I know it's all about the quality of life, but without money, one cannot live..

Should have come to Australia...:exit

Good luck with your move..

Michelle.:yes

[victoria]

A good post & honest. Thank you for teling your story without the need to explain or apologise. It's your life afterall. All the best to you & yours.

[willsken]

So with two incomes and no mortgage and substantial savings earning interest we assumed we might be able to afford a decent standard of living- I suppose that was mistake 1. At this point could I point out that we are not overly materialistic we don't drive expensive cars or have a penchant for designer clothes and expensive meals. But we still struggle, Heating, house maintenance and food are IMHO unbelievably expensive " relative to income"

Completely respect all you've said in your post and I don't mean to come across badly here but we have quite a big mortgage and all our savings are tied up in property in the UK. We manage very well here on 2 salaries. Not disputing the cost of things can be high here but we have a good standard of living and have money left at the end of the month. I’m only making this point, as reading what you said about money would have scared the eebjeebies (OK I know it’s not a word!) out of me when I was still in the UK. :)

[Sam B]

Really sorry it has not worked out for you and I found your post sobering. It sounds as if you have been the recipient of some very poor treatment from your company.

We are in a similar position to you (no mortgage and savings in bank), but just one income (mine) and so far we are managing ok, and not having to dip into savings much. Hopefully J will find work soon, but I hope it is with a more scupulous employer than yours. Maybe it is cheaper to live out of the 3 main centres?

My own employers (the ministry of Education) seem fair and I am enjoying working for them. There is no pressure to work extra hours - quite the opposite in fact, and 5 weeks holiday a year. The pay is c*** of course. So maybe public sector work offers a better deal?

I hope it all goes well with your return.

[leachio]

Good luck to you all and well done for sticking it out. We have only been here 4mths and we are not in the fortunate financial position you were, we wont be able to afford to buy a house here or in the UK for that matter. We also notice how little money we have at the end of each fortnight, we dont drink, smoke, go out, we never used to but £ just seemed to go further??????? Anyway I wont go on bout money but I understand your reasons for returning and it sounds like your kids will be happy :yes

Keep us posted!!

[holland]

Thanks for such an honest post.

[ellenmelon]

ack, im a kiwi but i have to agree with you. im counting down the days until i finish my degree (or should i say years..ive still 2.5 to go!!) so i can head back to ireland. my family, who moved from nz to ireland to australia and now theyre moving back to ireland as we speak.
NZ is far too expensive, and the excuse of it being a small country is getting old. ireland is pretty much the same size, and even though it is relatively expensive to live there, when you compare it to your wage it all balances out if you know what i mean?

in short..i agree with you and can definately see why your going back. hope the rest of your time is great and that you maybe have the chance to see some sights before jumping on the plane back to the UK.

good luck! :)

[Super_BQ]

A great honest post and for all, I can totally understand where you're coming from.

Many times i've told my wife that when you choose a country to live, you're best to look at factors for which money can't buy. But since we all need to earn a living, so much is emphasised on the financial advantage instead of intangable things.

When I declared non-residency in Canada over 10 years ago and moved to NZ, the decision was basically of financial benefit. At the time NZ had 33% max income tax limit, low inflation, and no capital gains tax on national or foreign investments. I guess you could say I was able to grow wealth. But over the years I saw NZ heading in a direction of more taxation while Canada did the opposite. Nevertheless, I was still able to make my financial freedom but began to see other issues that I myself could not change. I saw more racism, discrimination, lack of impartiality in the news media, the dumbing down of NZ's education system, an overworked health care system, uncontrollable inflation, rocketing real estate prices, etc. These are all issues beyond the control of you no matter if you're rich or poor.

I can relate why your children don't fit it and as you know, no amount of $ you have can change that. Sure you can buy them new toys but simply, new toys won't get them real close friends. Nor where $ can allow you to find a directory and choose the best doctor to perform your surgery. Even in your work environment, no amount of $ you have in your bank can change the way your co-workers think.

For the majority of my replies and posts on this forum, they are of 'critical' hardball responses. Most can't stand it, even my wife tells me that i'm too critical. But then i've discovered that in NZ, a lot of the discussions are superficial and the root cause of the problems are often never addressed, or answers that only cover the surface. This is what we call cultural differences. Perhaps more often there's a part of me that says "This would never be the case in Canada", and less often, "Gee I wish Canada was more like NZ".

I guess you could say you've ventured the path to NZ and hold no regrets for not coming at all... :clap

[Tia Maria]

Thanks for such an interesting post.

I've had 2 friends tell me this week that they are heading back to the UK. From chatting to them you would never have guessed, but both are going because they can get a better paid job back in the UK.

Cheers

Tia

[Debbie P.]

Dear Gonzo,

Thanks for the honest post. The bit that really got me was your sons saying they didn't want to get back on the plane back to NZ. That must be heartbreaking, and I can fully understand your desire to go back for that reason alone.

This sounds like things are much the same there as in the UK:


In the end after much persistence I did get treatment on the state system but was made to feel awful about it. Laughably it was the same consultant who performed the operation as had seen me in private practice and who had told me that it would never get done under the state health system (no conflicts of interest there then!).


It reminded me of a friend of my mum who died of breast cancer a few years ago. Was being treated in the NHS and was told she needed a mastectomy but that she would have to wait 3 months (was told by the consultant that it wasn't 'urgent'). Well, she found that unacceptable, so went private and had it done within 2 weeks... by the same consultant, who had the nerve to say "you look familiar, have we met before?". Sadly, it was too late for her as the cancer had spread... but it seems to be that it really is a 2-tier system wherever so-called 'free' health care is available. Don't get me wrong, I know the NHS do a lot of good work, but even so... if only I had the money for private insurance.

[movefromus]

Thanks for the post. I'm actually a kiwi moving back to NZ with my young family for a while. I grew up there but left in my late teens so going back now as an adult is a whole different ball game. Our reasons are definitely not financial....we'd be better off here in the US...I guess we'll just have to see how long we last :) . We have family there, so that and the outdoors are our main draws.
Anyway, it's great to hear your perspective. Thanks for posting.

[srivett]

There's nothing to apologise for. You took the time to write out your opinions honestly so you could benefit other people here who might learn something. It's fair warning to the rest of us, and I'm only sorry that you had to go through such an unfair experience in the first place. You can do all the research and preparation in the world, but there's no predicting people. If you and your family don't fit in there, you can hardly want to stick around, that's understandable, especially with the financial situation on top of everything. Best of luck in your new life!

[The Hodges]

Thank you for such an honest post. Good luck with everything.

Clare

[auskiwi]

I really appreciated reading your heartfelt post - and agree with many things you say. I grew up in NZ and the NZ I have come back to (as an adult and a mother and a wife) is an entirely different place. Still trying to decide if NZ has changed so much, or if my perception of NZ has changed...

Anyway, I remember when we were planning our move to NZ all I wanted to focus on was the good points - I skimmed over the negative posts assuming those points wouldn't apply to me - now I wish I had really read ALL the posts, wether negative or positive. It wouldn't have stopped us coming, but perhaps we would have arrived better prepared. As it is the shock of the struggle has been so difficult to bear we are heading back to the U.S permanently in a couple of weeks.

Amy

[Marco]

Hi Gonzo,

Thank you for this very well written post!!
All the best with your move back,
Anita

[marcia]

A good honest post, well written and from the heart.

I'm glad our boys are younger, 11, 9 and 3, i personally feel that the older the kids are the harder it will be for them to adapt. As they grow up into their teens they do make closer friends, and tend to stick with the same people, in the uk ours did have lots of friends and a couple of close ones, but to be honest they have jsut moved on really well here and made loads of new friends, they hardly mention their old mates at all. So i think the sooner the better for moving as regards kids!

For us the money side is Ok, we have no mortgage, only one 'pittance' coming in, which along with the tax credits we are managing on. We have been buying extra stuff, window tinting, and Kev has bought steel to build a new stock car, and we are managing without dipping into our savings. But we aren't living in one the 'big' cities. So again i think it may make a difference how far your money stretchs depending where you live.

Anyway good luck with your move back to uk, and remember no regrets, you gave it your best shot, you at least had the guts to try, and then the strength to say, ok its not for us.

All the very best! :nice1

[Tia Maria]

auskiwi wrote:

Anyway, I remember when we were planning our move to NZ all I wanted to focus on was the good points - I skimmed over the negative posts assuming those points wouldn't apply to me - now I wish I had really read ALL the posts, wether negative or positive.

I was guilty of this also. I did read all the posts but always thought of a reason that I'd be OK.

If someone said the houses were cold and damp, I thought, well I'll just put heating and insulation in. But I didn't think about the cost and the upheaval it would cause. We would have to move out to do it in our villa, it would cost big bucks and the whole house would require redecorating.

If someone said they felt homesick, I thought that would be OK we can pop back every few years. But I didn't fully realise how many months wage that would cost and how difficult it would be for the OH to get the time off.

And when somone said its worth a cut in salary as you get a more laid back less materialistic lifestyle, I thought we're bringing a lump sum over, we'll be OK and I didn't realise that it meant we would have to scrimp and save and I would have to start working from home while my youngest son was only 8months old.

Listing everything like that makes it sound very bleak and really for us it is only one side of the coin and there are many great things I could post about are move and we are still happy giving NZ a go, so at the moment the scales are tipping in the favour of NZ.

But it is more borderline than we imagined and I really think that posts about why NZ doesn't suit people can really help others prepare more and maybe save that bit extra, or do a bit more research etc etc, which could help make their trip more successful.

Cheers

Tia

[KerryS]

Thanks for your post - I'm getting closer and closer to making one myself now...

[Tia Maria]

Kerry S wrote:

Thanks for your post - I'm getting closer and closer to making one myself now...

Don't keep us in suspenders!!!

Cheers

Tia

[Lupin]

I was guilty of this also. I did read all the posts but always thought of a reason that I'd be OK.

If someone said the houses were cold and damp, I thought, well I'll just put heating and insulation in. But I didn't think about the cost and the upheaval it would cause. We would have to move out to do it in our villa, it would cost big bucks and the whole house would require redecorating.

If someone said they felt homesick, I thought that would be OK we can pop back every few years. But I didn't fully realise how many months wage that would cost and how difficult it would be for the OH to get the time off.

And when somone said its worth a cut in salary as you get a more laid back less materialistic lifestyle, I thought we're bringing a lump sum over, we'll be OK and I didn't realise that it meant we would have to scrimp and save and I would have to start working from home while my youngest son was only 8months old.

Listing everything like that makes it sound very bleak and really for us it is only one side of the coin and there are many great things I could post about are move and we are still happy giving NZ a go, so at the moment the scales are tipping in the favour of NZ.

But it is more borderline than we imagined and I really think that posts about why NZ doesn't suit people can really help others prepare more and maybe save that bit extra, or do a bit more research etc etc, which could help make their trip more successful.

Cheers

Tia

Excellent post Tia. I only wish it didn't resonate ...

[spudulike]

I was guilty of this also. I did read all the posts but always thought of a reason that I'd be OK.

If someone said the houses were cold and damp, I thought, well I'll just put heating and insulation in. But I didn't think about the cost and the upheaval it would cause. We would have to move out to do it in our villa, it would cost big bucks and the whole house would require redecorating.

If someone said they felt homesick, I thought that would be OK we can pop back every few years. But I didn't fully realise how many months wage that would cost and how difficult it would be for the OH to get the time off.

And when somone said its worth a cut in salary as you get a more laid back less materialistic lifestyle, I thought we're bringing a lump sum over, we'll be OK and I didn't realise that it meant we would have to scrimp and save and I would have to start working from home while my youngest son was only 8months old.

Listing everything like that makes it sound very bleak and really for us it is only one side of the coin and there are many great things I could post about are move and we are still happy giving NZ a go, so at the moment the scales are tipping in the favour of NZ.

But it is more borderline than we imagined and I really think that posts about why NZ doesn't suit people can really help others prepare more and maybe save that bit extra, or do a bit more research etc etc, which could help make their trip more successful.

Cheers

Tia

Superb post Tia - and one which will ring true for most people who are making/have made the move. I think it is human nature to only concentrate on what reinforces our own beliefs, and like you say we would do it anyway!!

L :)

[dharder]

I only see the negative sides of NZ at the moment, and find them all reinforced by posts like this. Of course I immediatley take them to OH and say 'see? see? We really should stay,' but to no avail.

I do think they help though to give a more realistic picture, and OH is slowly coming round to the idea that we may face some issues that she's never thought about.

At this point, I have resigned myself to staying in NZ for three years, but I still would like to do it with my eyes as open as possible and aware of as many problems as I can be. So thanks for honest opinions and experiences, they do help!

All the best, Gonzo and Sudulike and Auskiwi (sorry if I forgot someone) :)

Daniela

[Debbie P.]

It's really important to get all the negatives as well as the positives, and I'd be very surprised if any regular reader of this forum was moving with rose-tinted specs - unless they are just thinking "well, it won't happen to me!"

I worry massively about having financial problems in NZ (I'm like Daniela, giving all the reasons for NOT moving), but then again, we have financial problems in the UK too, and I will definitely have to go back to work when my baby is just a few months old, as the OH can't pay the mortgage by himself for long. So, I guess I might as well be poor there as here!

[Silverwing86]

What an excellent thread this is ! Started with a very honest and well expressed post and followed by many other wise and honest reflections.

I would definitely have read it with much interest before we made the move, but then these types of posts were the ones we were most interested in since we wanted to be as well prepared as possible when we arrived. They didn't stop us from coming here but we did adjust our expectations accordingly.

In doing so we have found that we have not had any unpleasant surprises since being here (6 months now), rather our expectations have been exceeded in many ways. As I mentioned in another thread (Life in New Zealand Poll), we are managing very well financially despite a sizable mortgage, feel very much at home and are quite a bit warmer than we had expected ;).

I will note though, that we have learned to shop for daily necessities quite differently than we were used to. We now check out all the folders that come in the mailbox, make use of sales (but do check first whether things really are cheaper in the sale :D) as much as we can and shop for different items at different places according to where we can get what we want for the best price. We never used to do this, just went to our regular supermarket and bought whatever we wanted without thinking twice about it.

Doing this has made a considerable difference in our consumable spending and after the first few months when we were also building up stocks and such, we are now spending quite a bit less than we had originally budgetted for consumables (yes, we are very avid budgeters and it has proven to be invaluable !). It takes some effort, but we find it an interesting challenge and of course, being in a new country means we don't have a 'regular' supermarket, everything is new so it's the best opportunity to change our old shopping habits anyway.

I'm curious to know, have others had the same experiences with daily shopping ?

Best of luck to all of you who gave it a go and were then brave enough to come to the conclusion that NZ isn't working out for you, at least you tried !

Silver

[stu70]

I'm curious to know, have others had the same experiences with daily shopping ?

Best of luck to all of you who gave it a go and were then brave enough to come to the conclusion that NZ isn't working out for you, at least you tried !

Silver
Good post indeed. I am curious though, how much would you save on groceries alone to offset the higher costs associated with some other big items such as heating, mortgages, appliances etc. I agree that the budgeting helps for sure but just not sure if that alone will lead to financial sustainability in NZ. Cheers

[Silverwing86]

Good post indeed. I am curious though, how much would you save on groceries alone to offset the higher costs associated with some other big items such as heating, mortgages, appliances etc. I agree that the budgeting helps for sure but just not sure if that alone will lead to financial sustainability in NZ. Cheers

Hi Stu70,

It wasn't at all my intention to suggest that budgetting alone would lead to financial sustainability in NZ since I don't believe that to be true. My apologies if that's how it came over, it just came up with the question about other peoples experiences with consumable shopping.

For us, coming from The Netherlands, most of the costs you mention were considerably higher for us there than they are here, mortgage ofcourse being the big exception. The 'savings' on the other items in our budget meant that we could still be comfortable despite a sizable mortgage.

Budgetting helped us mostly because we started before we made the move and that showed us that we could survive here. We found info in many places, but always put the budget higher just in case. It turns out that we budgetted more liberally than we needed to, but we thought it better to err on the side of caution, since we wanted to know if we could be comfortable rather than struggling.

Consumables was one of the most difficult things to budget until we actually arrived and was a bit of worry, but as I mentioned, in changing our shopping habits we've been able to make it work. I do believe though, that had we not changed our shopping habits, the amount we had budgetted for consumables, although liberal according to our research, would not have been anywhere near enough.

Silver

[willsken]

Good post indeed. I am curious though, how much would you save on groceries alone to offset the higher costs associated with some other big items such as heating, mortgages, appliances etc. I agree that the budgeting helps for sure but just not sure if that alone will lead to financial sustainability in NZ. Cheers

Maybe it's me but I just don't find NZ that much more expensive than the UK. Some things are, just not that much. OH and I have regular jobs and we just aren't struggling. I say this knowing there is no way we would survive on one wage here but we couldn't in the UK either. :confused:

[stu70]

Thank you to you two for the information. I completely agree that budgeting is by no means a useless exercise. As a matter of fact we do it here in Canada and I guess many reading this on the forum do it on their end. My understanding was that the purchasing power of NZ dollar was not the same as say our currency and then there are known issues with some things being more expensive (goods and services- books, entertainment, clothes, airfares to name a few) in NZ given the remote nature of the country. Cheers for sharing some great info though

[Familyofmonkeys]

This forum has been invaluble....we too have had to rethink the way we used to shop in UK. Have only been here 3 months, and been on grocery budget since the beginning.
We have found that you basically get penalised for being lazy, which most of use are at some point or another. Basics (apart from bread), fruit and veg we find really cheap, but ready meals, and anything in freezer section are expensive. I grew up in a small village where we used to shop once a week or fortnight, so it is like going back to childhood routine for me, but OH grew up in city, and does not put things in shopping trolley if he thinks we have enough for a few more days. I am inclined to have well stocked cupboards and buy things in bulk, when on offer. We have also found that it is not always cheaper to buy things at the cheapest price elsewhere, as you can end up paying more for extra petrol travelling, than you actually save. I guess that depends on how far apart your nearest supermarkets are?
We gave ourself a budget of $250 week for family of 5 (including 3 kids in nappies) and so far have been spending about $200, even with a few luxury items...biccies, nice cheese, chips & dips for weekend etc. I would be interested in how this compares to other peoples grocery spending?

[willsken]

Stu, you're right things can be stupidly expensive (books and paint to name but 2) but the feel of this thread is that day to day living is out of the reach of most people. All I'm saying is that in my experience, as someone not earning huge money, we are surviving very well. I’m not disputing for one second what the poster says about their own experiences, I just feel it is important to point out not everyone struggles over here.

I work with 10 teachers from the UK and over the last few months have had the usual conversations with them all. None would ever go back to the UK, all afford to go back on holiday, all go on other holidays within NZ or OZ etc. None struggle financially on a day to day basis. All I want to do is point out that people do manage to have a comfortable life here.

[Moorf]

As per Willsken, and other immigrants I know in NZ, I find it very hard to relate to the stories of financial hardship in NZ (just as many people seem to have problems believing we survive!). Hubby is the main earner, so one pretty average salary, and my writing is taking off but it's hardly well paid. Yet we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me :o) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths.

If we were both working full time I'd consider our income more than enough.

I truly can't understand how, with two salaries, no mortgage and "substantial savings" earning interest, people can't get buy. But obviously it's happening as we see more and more people head back to the UK for money reasons. What on earth are you guys buying each month? Two people on just $50k each would bring in an after tax income of around, say, v. approx, 4-5k a month total with only the usual bills/food stuff to pay?

I've even had to run this past other UK/USA friends I have here in case they were perhaps all lying to me and were actually struggling to survive, but no - friends ranging from builders/welders/mechanics through to IT/Banking all seem to be managing just fine!

Great thread though, always interesting to be able to compare and contrast, I hope you don't mind me jumping in and querying it but I really really don't understand!!

[auskiwi]

I'm not sure how people without mortgages and two incomes aren't managing. When we moved to NZ we halved our income and doubled our mortgage - no big surprise that we have struggled! For some reason our drive to give NZ a go made us able to overlook our obvious impending poverty and focus on how gloriously "lesss materialistic" our lives would be!

[Tia Maria]

Moorf wrote:

I've even had to run this past other UK/USA friends I have here in case they were perhaps all lying to me and were actually struggling to survive, but no - friends ranging from builders/welders/mechanics through to IT/Banking all seem to be managing just fine!

I think location and circumstances play a great part in different poster's experiences.

I've been in NZ for about 18months and in that short time I have known of several families (about 6 spring to mind) return to the UK or Oz from my son's school. The main reason they all give is financial, whether its that they've been offered a better paid position elsewhere or they just can't pay the mortgage without dipping into UK savings.

So maybe having to live in an Auckland suburb with children makes this kind of story more common ..... just a thought.

Cheers

Tia

[Moorf]

Very true Tia - those I spoke to were all from around the Christchurch/Canterbury area. I know there's a big difference in living costs between Welly/Auckland and Chch but I thought that the slightly lower wages factored that out.

[gil]

I have to say that I share Moorf and Willsken's point of view here. We have 4 kids (well, 3 here, with eldest back in UK), a big mortgage, both working and on what we think are good salaries, living in Howick (a fairly expensive part of Auckland, although less expensive than some!), decile 10 schools to contribute to, we socialise at home, don't eat out but do have takeaways on a Friday night, don't wear designer stuff, have used up all our UK ££, and have not yet managed to run out of $ by month end.

It can be done, folks :yes

I appreciate people airing their views, and am really glad to see that the tone of this thread is "this is my personal experience" rather than "this is how it is". Thanks for that everyone.

Gil

[jo b]

Some people like to have the feel that they can put something by for a rainy day and when you have use up all your UK savings and then aren't putting as much away each month as you used to can be sobering for some emigratees. As people do like that as a comfort factor.

The original poster wasn't just complaining about the cost of living but the way he had been treated unfairly by his employers who he had shown loyalty to. Please don't turn this into a 'if we can survive you should be able to' thread. There a probably a hundred more factors that contributed to the op's reasons for moving back and he highlighted a few of the main ones.

Things aren't much more expensive than UK prices but when paying with the dollar it sure shows a difference than paying in UK £££.

Moorf 2 incomes x $50k is A LOT to some families and with no kids too boot you would always have more spare cash than those with kids, children can be expensive to keep.

I always wonder what peoples perception of life in NZ would be like in a few years when your beautiful houses need kitchens and bathrooms replacing and you need new beds, carpets and other furniture etc, car needs replacing. (Yes some people may buy off trade me but then they are suited to the NZ way of life.)You or your family may encounter poor health and have costs there.
I think then you can really judge the difference in costs not just in terms of a shopping bill.

I could budget in the UK and do buy much much cheaper by going to my local veg shop and butchers but to consider cheese, crisps and dips as 'luxury items' well I am lost for words!

[gil]

I could budget in the UK and do buy much much cheaper by going to my local veg shop and butchers but to consider cheese, crisps and dips as 'luxury items' well I am lost for words!

I would agree that "nice cheese" as mentioned by Family of Monkeys is indeed a luxury. Have you seen the price of authentic Parmigiano or Roquefort in Tesco? I would also class chips and dips as a luxury, because they are not staple foods and certainly not something I would keep in the cupboard/fridge at all times.

Each to their own.

gil

[willsken]

So with two incomes and no mortgage and substantial savings earning interest we assumed we might be able to afford a decent standard of living- I suppose that was mistake 1. At this point could I point out that we are not overly materialistic we don't drive expensive cars or have a penchant for designer clothes and expensive meals. But we still struggle, Heating, house maintenance and food are IMHO unbelievably expensive " relative to income"


I wasn't judging any part of his experience in NZ or his reasons for going home. I did say this when I made my first post on this issue. NZ isn’t for everyone and I completely respect that. I was solely referring to the above quote, as I don't believe that it's fair on people not here yet to see a statement like this and not be told that it's not like that for everyone. There are many people on this forum for which financial worries are the biggest factor in the “can I/can’t I” process. I was one of them and it was really was my only concern before moving here.

We have just gutted our flat on the side of our house and redoing everything from insulation to new kitchen/bathroom. We will be doing all that on our NZ wages.

I don’t want this to be a question of the rights and wrongs of someone deciding to leave NZ. Many do and have valid reasons but there are 2 sides to a coin and I think it’s helpful to those not having made the move yet, to see both sides. :)

[Moorf]

Moorf 2 incomes x $50k is A LOT to some families and with no kids too boot you would always have more spare cash than those with kids, children can be expensive to keep.

Yep, I totally agree, which is why I ran it past my friends who all have kids and have different jobs etc. :)

Plus, yes, the OP did have medical costs and concerns which could work out very expensive here with no insurance.

I was really replying because the tone of the thread seemed to have become very much that it's expensive to live here and hard to get by, which I don't happen to agree with. Hence my post.

As for what will happen to our homes well, much as with the UK really. We've already updated all we could with available funds (kitchen etc) and the rest we'll save for or borrow on the mortgage if it's substantial. I'm sure people on here who are being positive are also quite intelligent and forward looking!

[Jo Jo]

I wasn't judging any part of his experience in NZ or his reasons for going home. I did say this when I made my first post on this issue. NZ isn’t for everyone and I completely respect that. I was solely referring to the above quote, as I don't believe that it's fair on people not here yet to see a statement like this and not be told that it's not like that for everyone. There are many people on this forum for which financial worries are the biggest factor in the “can I/can’t I” process. I was one of them and it was really was my only concern before moving here.

We have just gutted our flat on the side of our house and redoing everything from insulation to new kitchen/bathroom. We will be doing all that on our NZ wages.

I don’t want this to be a question of the rights and wrongs of someone deciding to leave NZ. Many do and have valid reasons but there are 2 sides to a coin and I think it’s helpful to those not having made the move yet, to see both sides. :)


It certainly is helpful, and I, for one, am very grateful for your post (and Gil's and Moorf's, too).

[Debbie P.]

I find these posts really helpful too, speaking as someone who is struggling in the UK - 2 reasonably salaries, 1 a teacher's salary, very small mortgage, but living in an increasingly expensive part of the UK - how the heck do teachers in London manage these days??

It gives me some hope that if we work really hard, we might have a chance of making it over there... but equally we can't say we haven't been forewarned, so thanks for both sides of the debate. :nice1

[K&CS]

I haven’t been on for a while but Helen (Moorf) mentioned this thread to me, so I thought I’d have a look…..

Anyway, after reading this thread through, I decided that there’s something I have to confess to, which I have never dared to say before, but what the hey?…. We are (I’ll whisper it so as not to offend) significantly financially better off in NZ than we were in the UK. There, I’ve said it and I can’t take it back now. Thanks to the ludicrously high house prices where we lived in the UK (Yorkshire and not the South East, I hasten to add), we have no mortgage and live in a lovely house in a good area of Christchurch. We have just one salary coming in, but we are able to shop in Woolworths, go on holiday several times a year (we’re going to Oz next week), go out for lunch a couple of times a week, meet friends for coffees, have our house redecorated, buy new things for ourselves etc etc. We are not extravagant by nature but we do drink wine and we can buy chips and dips whenever the mood takes us!

People only write about their experiences – fair enough - but this thread seemed to be taking a rather sinister tone. If it was to be believed, then everyone should get the hell out of NZ! We all have different circumstances, but I just wanted people to know that it isn’t all financial doom and gloom for everyone.

It has been said in the past, but I will reiterate. Why oh why is someone only ever ‘honest’ if they have something bad to say? Why is it only the negative doom sayer posts that get the ‘claps’ and ‘agree 100 and some rather bizarre amount percent’ replies?.

For people who are considering the move, do by all means read all the different opinions but please realise that life in NZ isn’t the same for everyone and that not everyone in NZ struggles to keep afloat.

Good luck to the OP and I hope your move back to the UK proves to be everything you hope it will be.

[willsken]

People only write about their experiences – fair enough - but this thread seemed to be taking a rather sinister tone. If it was to be believed, then everyone should get the hell out of NZ! We all have different circumstances, but I just wanted people to know that it isn’t all financial doom and gloom for everyone.

It has been said in the past, but I will reiterate. Why oh why is someone only ever ‘honest’ if they have something bad to say? Why is it only the negative doom sayer posts that get the ‘claps’ and ‘agree 100 and some rather bizarre amount percent’ replies?.

For people who are considering the move, do by all means read all the different opinions but please realise that life in NZ isn’t the same for everyone and that not everyone in NZ struggles to keep afloat.



Fantastic to read. This forum has lost so many of the regular, extremely helpful posters because of some attitudes on this forum and it's a real shame. There will always be people who don't like NZ for whatever reason. Horses for courses but there are people, including me, that think NZ is a fantastic place to be. I love it here and have a great life, no it's not perfect but for what I want out of life for my family and what I was able to have in the UK, NZ is really great! :nice1

[Tia Maria]

K&CS - I'm confused are you are saying its OK to have different opinions, just as long as they are not negative?

I thought it was quite appropriate to list what wasn't working for you in NZ on a "we're leaving NZ post' which was on the Leaving NZ forum. I'm not sure how people saying they understand is sinister. In what way sinister?

Caroline&Dave have done a great poll called "Life in NZ":

www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12574

which has lots of people posting stories about how much they are enjoying NZ - room for everyone I think.

Cheers

Tia

[Carey]

Feel a bit better today reading the newer posts and hearing different view points. As a family hoping to make it one day to NZ, this scared the living daylights out of me when this post first started.

But it must be remembered if this was a post only about the Uk for eg. there would be plenty of people with similar stories, differences in income, standards of living, views on relative costs, etc. Living can be very expensive here too! Or you can manage, as we do, on one low salary, and feel very much the country bumpkins amongst our materialistic relations......but our choice.....

[Questor]

OK it's been a while since I made a really "from the heart" post on here (partly because I've not needed to since we got our issues sorted) but this has made me really want to:
We are both in our 20s (me 29, she 27) and we emigrated from Yorkshire almost exactly a year ago. We have no kids (or any plans for any) and we manage just fine money wise. OK I'm a pharmacist so have a reasonable salary, but it's by no means "big". We also have student loans back in the UK which we contribute approx $900 a month back to the UK to. We also have (for us) a biggish mortgage.
The reason we think we do so well is that we don't feel the need to shop anywhere near as much as we did when we were in the UK, and we don't want to go out all the time. That's not to say we don't want to go out, of course we do, but we enjoy staying in watching DVDs, playing games (I buy plenty of DVDs, mostly from the US as they're cheaper, and games - again not that cheap) and having friends round pretty often.
We fully expected, having done our research, to be worse off here than we were, but we're probably better off in many repects. We buy food seasonally from the butcher and local vege growers, and cook much more than we ever did - We FEEL both healthier and happier, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind this was the right move for us.
This is not to say it's the right move for everyone, of course it's not, and I entirely appreciate any problems people have had, particularly in regards to kids, as I know they can be tough ;)
All I really mean is, if you are thinking about moving out here - RESEARCH! and if it looks good, then do it!
And those of you who have made the move and decided it's not for them, at least you tried, you'll never wonder "what if" - and of course you'll always be welcome at our place for a drink and some chocolate fish ;)

Jon

[Silverwing86]

We fully expected, having done our research, to be worse off here than we were, but we're probably better off in many repects. We buy food seasonally from the butcher and local vege growers, and cook much more than we ever did - We FEEL both healthier and happier, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind this was the right move for us.


Totally agree with you. Based on our (purposely liberal) budgetting before we made the move, we also expected to be worse off than we actually are. IMO making changes to the way we used to do things before we came here, like daily shopping habits for instance (and other things as well), has been a major contribution towards that.

Silver

[Silverwing86]

Feel a bit better today reading the newer posts and hearing different view points. As a family hoping to make it one day to NZ, this scared the living daylights out of me when this post first started.

Glad the continuation of this discussion has evened things out a bit for you Carey.

IMO every post on any forum is potentially interesting and offers some light on a possible life in NZ. Which is, I suppose, what we are looking for when we read them before we get here.

For myself I always thought it wise, whilst reading, to keep in mind that they are all personal experiences. I think one can never mirror oneself completely in another persons experiences, since no two people are exactly the same. Whether the experience I was reading about was positive or negative, I always tried to apply the same balance of view to both.


But it must be remembered if this was a post only about the Uk for eg. there would be plenty of people with similar stories, differences in income, standards of living, views on relative costs, etc. Living can be very expensive here too! Or you can manage, as we do, on one low salary, and feel very much the country bumpkins amongst our materialistic relations......but our choice.....

Totally agree with you here !

I find it very interesting to see how, in every emigration forum I have ever been on, this dicussion about positive vs negative has reared it's head and always seems to be a very sensitive subject.

It makes me wonder why, as for me personally, whenever I post a positive experience on a forum (haven't felt the need to post a negative one yet, but the same would apply if I had), it is in no way meant as any kind of criticism to others who have a different viewpoint. It's just how I feel and view things, no more, no less.

After all, isn't everyone entitled to their own opinions/feelings, whether they be positive or negative ? Cardinal rule in life: what's absolutely right for one person can be totally wrong for another. Aren't we all just good people who are doing our level best to make a go of life ? No one can be faulted for that, right ?

Isn't it a good thing that we are not all the same, it would make life a lot less interesting, wouldn't it ? I vouch for celebrating our differences :clap !

Silver

[jo b]

I would agree that "nice cheese" as mentioned by Family of Monkeys is indeed a luxury. Have you seen the price of authentic Parmigiano or Roquefort in Tesco? I would also class chips and dips as a luxury, because they are not staple foods and certainly not something I would keep in the cupboard/fridge at all times.

Each to their own.

gil

Gil,

depends on the op's view of nice cheese I was putting it in line with biccies - nice cheese = decent strong chedder. i.e. if biccies are a luxury then roquefort is sheer extravagence.

[jo b]

[QUOTE=willsken;142009]Stu, you're right things can be stupidly expensive (books and paint to name but 2) but the feel of this thread is that day to day living is out of the reach of most people.

I didn't think that at this point but it soon became a bandwagon to jump on about how people are 'surviving'.

It seemed that everyone was trying to counteract the OP's reasons for coming home as not valid.

That is how it came across anyway.

[jo b]

As per Willsken, and other immigrants I know in NZ, I find it very hard to relate to the stories of financial hardship in NZ (just as many people seem to have problems believing we survive!). Hubby is the main earner, so one pretty average salary, and my writing is taking off but it's hardly well paid. Yet we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me :o) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths.

If we were both working full time I'd consider our income more than enough.

I truly can't understand how, with two salaries, no mortgage and "substantial savings" earning interest, people can't get buy. But obviously it's happening as we see more and more people head back to the UK for money reasons. What on earth are you guys buying each month? Two people on just $50k each would bring in an after tax income of around, say, v. approx, 4-5k a month total with only the usual bills/food stuff to pay?

I've even had to run this past other UK/USA friends I have here in case they were perhaps all lying to me and were actually struggling to survive, but no - friends ranging from builders/welders/mechanics through to IT/Banking all seem to be managing just fine!

Great thread though, always interesting to be able to compare and contrast, I hope you don't mind me jumping in and querying it but I really really don't understand!!

Moorf maybe people want more than just to 'Survive'.......

Jo

[stu70]

Moorf maybe people want more than just to 'Survive'.......

Jo
That is just it! Couldn't have put it better myself

[johnrt]

That is just it! Couldn't have put it better myself

I could, because it's a selective quote. Nowhere did Moorf say anything about only having enough to just survive or that she expected other people to only just survive. She actually said

"we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me ) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths."

Please don't let us go down the selective quotation road. It's not fair on anyone and it needlessy confuses what otherwise could be a useful discussion.

[Tomsk]

Yikes, I've just read this entire thread and speaking as one who's currently researching NZ obsessively (got to get that completed ITA in before the July 31st price hike, or forget the whole shebang!) this has got me gulping.
It's not so much the finances, hubby has a job offer, I'm a nurse, should get work and we have an expensive house in the NW Kent/SE London commuter belt- should be able to realise a healthy sum on that *fingers crossed* and I prefer to eat seasonally/ grow my own wherever I can, hate the English attitude of expecting to be able to eat strawberries in December just because they can be flown in from somewhere (NZ???).
But right at the start something about children not making friends! Is that a general experience or a one off? I'm bringing my children over at a critical stage of their education (son sits GCSEs June 08, daughter sits them June 09). Hubby plans to come over in Feb 08 for work, I planned to come after sons GCSEs in the June. But if either child doesn't settle into school and make friends they could fail NCEAs and/ or blow their chances of GCSEs or A-levels. Nightmare! I can't let my kids down in this way.
Now I'm very confused, but I simply don't know how to research whether or not they'll make friends in another country. Yes, they've loads of friends here (and I have the phone bills to prove it!) but if it's harder to strike up friendships there, and they'll start in the middle of a NZ academic year. I am so confused!

[gil]

Kate,

First, sorry if this post should go into the Education bit, not intending to hijack the original thread.

Having brought four kids here last November, one of whom had just started year 11 in UK, we found that she has settled fine. She is a quiet, studious girl who doesn't like sport much (well, that's changing now!) and who had a fabulous circle of friends in Cardiff. We went through a solid year of "You're ruining my life" conversations and she was absolutely dreading coming here.
She goes to a school here in Auckland that offers International GCSEs as well as NCEA and she is doing the IGCSE (a combination of school's and her choice). The course is one year, so she began in February at the start of the course with her NZ peers.
She will ultimately finish her schooling in the December compared to her mates in the UK finishing in the July of 2009. So, if she chooses to go to University in UK, she will of necessity have to join a year after her UK friends.

She is finding the quality of teaching/learning higher here as (and I have said this before, so apologies for the repetition) the teachers do not spend their whole time keeping the rowdy/unruly in check, but because discipline is better, can explore the subject and discuss and help those who need it.

The other point that helps is that they only do 6 subjects (in UK she was doing 12!!) at both IGCSE and NCEA. Englsh, Maths, PE are compulsory, I think, and then 3 options.

A friend of hers (here from Liverpool) has just transferred to a different College (high school) just two terms before the exams and has opted to change to NCEA. She is able to get credits from the IGCSE work she has completed so far.
Not sure what point that makes, but I found it interesting!

Anway, my advice would be to speak to the school you want your children to atend and work out the best way forward. You may find that both your GCSE students end up in the same year....


Don't worry about them making the transition Kate. It takes a few months, but all ours have now confessed that they feel settled here.

Let us know how you go,

Gil

[Lupin]

But right at the start something about children not making friends! Is that a general experience or a one off? I'm bringing my children over at a critical stage of their education (son sits GCSEs June 08, daughter sits them June 09). Hubby plans to come over in Feb 08 for work, I planned to come after sons GCSEs in the June. But if either child doesn't settle into school and make friends they could fail NCEAs and/ or blow their chances of GCSEs or A-levels. Nightmare! I can't let my kids down in this way.
Now I'm very confused, but I simply don't know how to research whether or not they'll make friends in another country. Yes, they've loads of friends here (and I have the phone bills to prove it!) but if it's harder to strike up friendships there, and they'll start in the middle of a NZ academic year. I am so confused!

I can only speak for my kids but they made friends instantly. We constantly have extras for dinnner or a sleepover and they're often at a friend's house too. My 9 yr old daughter found Kiwi kids and Kiwi kid culture suits her far better than UK as she can wear scrappy clothes to school, spend the day building dens and climbing trees, sword fighting with branches, using her penknife to make bow and arrows etc and all her Kiwi girl friends enjoy the same :)

[K&CS]

Tomsk, it might be worth your while to start a new thread on this subject. There are a lot of people on this site with children of a similar age to yours and you'll probably get more feedback if you do that! My kids are much younger, so I can't really comment although they've settled in fantastically and have a wider social circle than they did in the UK. Good luck anyway!

Kate

[jo b]

I could, because it's a selective quote. Nowhere did Moorf say anything about only having enough to just survive or that she expected other people to only just survive. She actually said

"we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me ) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths."

Please don't let us go down the selective quotation road. It's not fair on anyone and it needlessy confuses what otherwise could be a useful discussion.

Originally Posted by Moorf View Post
As per Willsken, and other immigrants I know in NZ, I find it very hard to relate to the stories of financial hardship in NZ (just as many people seem to have problems believing we survive!). Hubby is the main earner, so one pretty average salary, and my writing is taking off but it's hardly well paid. Yet we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me ) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths

read it again she uses the word survive twice in her thread

[Sam B]

Lupin - your kids sound just like mine!

We are also better off here (I think) due to buying a house in Cornwall 7 years ago and selling it for more than double the price. We also spend less here as I was a bit of a big spender in the UK and I am less so here (not a conscious decision). We are just about to go out for breakfast, so it's not all lentils and darned tights either, I still have a high coffee consumption etc.

My kids are incredibly happy and settled, lots of friends. But they are 10 and 6, I guess teens are a whole new ball game?

When you're just about to make the move, you will either optomistically focus on all the positive posts, or dwell on every negative one and scare yourself to death. But you'll probably still do it in the end - and you'll never know which camp you'll be posting in until you do!

[johnrt]

read it again she uses the word survive twice in her thread

Yes she does - but not in the sense that you have implied. That's why it's selective quotation. Moorf's full post, in context, has the opposite meaning to the one you're trying imply it has.

[willsken]

As per Willsken, and other immigrants I know in NZ, I find it very hard to relate to the stories of financial hardship in NZ (just as many people seem to have problems believing we survive!). Hubby is the main earner, so one pretty average salary, and my writing is taking off but it's hardly well paid. Yet we have a full life, have a fairly substantial mortgage compared with those that are mortgage free and we have money left over at the end of the month, take holidays, eat out loads, spend impulsively (ok, that's mainly me ) and don't walk round in rags. We run 2 second-hand cars, have sky, broadband, dog, warm house and shop at New World/Woolworths

Jo B if that's surviving, then I bet there's a lot of people out there who'd be happy to survive! ;)

[Moorf]

Wow, it comes to something when one has to defend 2 words in a post. Of course, johnrt seems to have made sense of what I put, along with many others, and I do notice that it's a very select few that I seem to be "misunderstood" by.

Shall I clarify my meanings? Can I be bothered? Ohhh, alright then...

First use: "people are surprised we can survive!" (note exclamation mark - survived used in flippant "my god you can SURVIVE on that!" type way)..

Happy? Good...

Second use: "in case they were perhaps all lying to me and were actually struggling to survive" - again, an exaggeration to make a point.

Note to self: substitute "live a considerably happy, fruitful and active life" for "survive"

:roll

[willsken]

:D :D

[Tia Maria]

Moorf wrote:

Note to self: substitute "live a considerably happy, fruitful and active life" for "survive"

I'm sorry could you clarify what you mean by fruitful - growing plenty of fruit or being very productive? :p

Cheers

Tia

[Moorf]

I thought fruitful sounded better than vegetative :D

[Tia Maria]

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Cheers

Tia

[Lupin]

I think we're a pretty fair example of whether NZ is hard to 'survive' in or not. In the UK we lived off one nurses wages and rented a house from my mum at a subsidised rental.

Here we live off one nurses wage (actually I work very part time now but my income after tax deductions and family allowance adjustment is laughable) and rent (although soon to have a mortgage). We are about the same ... we struggle a little more here but we don't have a subsidised rent. In total we spent about 12GBP on emigrating and have sunk 40GBP capital into our land. We'll be mortgaged to the hilt. But here's the rub, in the UK we would have been mortgaged to the hilt to afford a two bed terrace. Here we're buying a four bed home on four acres in our dream location :)

I miss my family badly atm but as a family living on a minimal wage (our total annual income for a family of four AFTER tax deductions and family allowance is about $49K) with maximum mortgage, we struggle no more than we did in the UK but have a higher standard of living, imo. Some things are dearer, others are less so.

How on earth someone can be mortgage free and have an income the same as or greater than ours and *not* manage here is, I'm afraid, quite beyond me.

[zardell]

I wasn't going to join in this debate, but quite frankly I get sick and tired of all this bickering over positives and negatives.

Plus, I'm my own worst enemy....

Reader - just to remind you, this is a forum. Nothing more, nothing less just a forum.

Obviously a forums contributors consist of a variety of people all at different stages in their lives from all different walks of life, so answer me this - How the heck can we all be the same and share the same opinions ?? No poster is going to be 100% forthcoming with all the components that make up their personal lives and lets be honest here - why should they ? Unfortunately it's sometimes the bits that they miss out that contributes to a decision by the reader.

Let me explain what I mean by that above statement:

Cheese is cheese - how many cannot afford it in your country of origin? I have no idea how many can't afford it in mine.

'We have spent all our savings'......really? How much did you have? $10 or $1million ?

'We can't afford to have a holiday on our NZ income'....really? Well where do you want to go? 5* All Inclusive to the Bahamas or a quick weekend away to a bach on a nearby beach?

'We have a better lifestyle in NZ and have a very small (or no) mortgage' .....really? Do you live in a shed or a brand new mansion?

'We are by no means materialistic'.....really? I personally wouldn't pay around £200 (yes ££££') for a pair of trainers, but I know a lot of people in the UK who would and then wear them out running from one shop to another to compare the prices of groceries.


I reiterate - its a forum.

It's full of peoples views and experiences and it can be invaluable if the posts are taken in the right context. We can only post as we see it and to be perfectly truthful Reader, my views can change daily !! Some days I love the place and other days I would kill for a ticket back to the UK.

If you are the type of person that needs the opinion of a complete stranger on a forum to validate your move to NZ then maybe you should stay where you are.

Right - 'nuff said - bring on the flak...........

...:exit

Julie

xx

[CjChris]

Quote zardell, "If you are the type of person that needs the opinion of a complete stranger on a forum to validate your move to NZ then maybe you should stay where you are.

Right - 'nuff said - bring on the flak..........."

Julie, your post is a much needed one at this point. Thanks! :D

No flak from me :raebanana

I personally need the opinion of HUNDREDS of complete strangers and then I pick and choose which ones I want to believe :p

Actually, I generally have my mind made up about something from the start, but the nosey in me is always wondering what "others" are up to and thinking.

Mind you, my opinion doesn't sway easily; mostly I use the consensus of others' opinions as a jumping off point for more research.

That's why I read this dang forum every day...to see if I need to do more research than I have already! :uhoh

Christine

[willsken]

If you are the type of person that needs the opinion of a complete stranger on a forum to validate your move to NZ then maybe you should stay where you are.

I was always coming anyway.... but God there were days when reading this forum sent me into a state of deep depression! :o :D

[Moorf]

Right - 'nuff said - bring on the flak...........Sorry, but no flak from this corner - I thought your post was spot on (and usually where these sort of threads end up!).

However, I felt the OP had put forward their situation quite clearly and I think that's part of the reason people have shown their frustration at not being able to "survive" (I'm starting to dislike that word now!) on this particular thread.

I notice that not many of the Leaving New Zealand posts have had any counter-posts because most can see, hopefully via the posts of people who have struggled and returned for WHATEVER reason, that living on $45k with a big mortgage and no savings CAN be hard... that's a no-brainer really if you've read this forum through. But, I think what got people involved on this particular Leaving New Zealand thread was it did rather give the impression (intended or not) that it would be hard to get by here with 2 salaries, substantial savings and no mortgage. Had I read this before we moved I would have been posting away like crazy and in a bit of a panic! No, a LOT of a panic.

I thought it helpful, not finger-pointing or overly-rose tinted, that Willksken and others had added that this is not necessarily the case - it balanced out the thread imo.

This is always going to be a sensitive thread but, at the same time, a valuable one for those yet to move here.

Before we moved here and I was posting as a newbie on the forum I'm afraid I did rather hang on everyones words. Until you're here and see the variety of locations and lifestyles it's really hard to see where other people are coming from. :yes It would be like me trying to convince someone moving to the UK that it's lovely and rural, housing is cheap and it's uncrowded while speaking from our previous home back in rural Scotland and a Londoner trying to get their view over in the same post - imagine how hard that would be!

Moorf

[zardell]

I was always coming anyway.... but God there were days when reading this forum sent me into a state of deep depression! :o :D



Oh yes, I remember it well Nic - the phone calls between us, the tears, the support etc.

Must still be happenening to some other poor s*ds.

;)

Julie

xx

[zardell]

Before we moved here and I was posting as a newbie on the forum I'm afraid I did rather hang on everyones words. Until you're here and see the variety of locations and lifestyles it's really hard to see where other people are coming from. :yes It would be like me trying to convince someone moving to the UK that it's lovely and rural, housing is cheap and it's uncrowded while speaking from our previous home back in rural Scotland and a Londoner trying to get their view over in the same post - imagine how hard that would be!

Moorf



Spot on........:D

Julie

xx

[jen]

Before we moved here and I was posting as a newbie on the forum I'm afraid I did rather hang on everyones words. Until you're here and see the variety of locations and lifestyles it's really hard to see where other people are coming from. :yes It would be like me trying to convince someone moving to the UK that it's lovely and rural, housing is cheap and it's uncrowded while speaking from our previous home back in rural Scotland and a Londoner trying to get their view over in the same post - imagine how hard that would be!

Moorf

That's my biggest frustration from reading the forum for two years! For example when people post and ask "so what's the weather really like in New Zealand?" It makes a HUGE difference where you are moving from and especially where in NZ you're moving to! I myself didn't realize what a big difference in the weather there is from one end of the country to the other until we came here on holiday.

Local context is so important when doing comparisons. I can truthfully say : food is more expensive, housing is cheaper, it's colder and windier, health care is cheaper and there are more cultural activities here. But to judge whether you might have the same experience when you move to New Zealand, you'd have to take into account that I speak based on my specific experience moving from a high cost of living coastal California town of 90,000 people to the eastern suburbs of Wellington. IMO Auckland is so different from the rest of New Zealand (not better or worse, just different) that any blanket statement about New Zealand as far as cost of living, crime, schools etc is probably not relevant to someone moving there.


Jen