[Moorf]

Are you bored of these yet? I have had lots more suggestions so I'll just keep them coming until you tell me to stop!!

So, this topic is education and whether or not NZ does indeed have a great environment for kids to learn, great schools, safe/trouble-free schools, fab teaching staff, well-equipped schools and "kids who stay kids longer".

Or, does NZ have its fair share of unruly kids, disrespect towards teachers, expensive extras (uniform/books/activities etc), shabby buildings/equipment, low standards of behaviour, violence in the classroom and how does it compare to the country you've moved from?

Over to you....

[nippa&pippa]

My oldest child hasn't start school yet, but he is at Kindergarten (same as "preschool" in UK). Compare with UK, I am impress with my son allow to stay "child" longer till up to 6, without force to start school too early at 4 like UK.
I know my son want to start school already as he have been looking at school every day as we drive past it on way to kindy..but I know in my heart and head that he is not ready yet.
I have not yet experience school level yet but I have received brochures from his new school that he is due to start next July, and already bit panic on cost of uniforms...especially got a boy and a girl, mean most of uniform can't pass on...(apart from can pass on to 3rd child).

[Sam B]

My experience is that our Kid's school in Cambridge (Goodwood School) is completely WONDERFUL with fab teachers, loads of outdoor activities, much better discipline, higher standards of teaching, more emphasis on basics like spelling and tables, and both my children are being pushed more than they were in the UK. There is more homework than they had (reading every night and spellings weekly for the 6 year old and tables, hard spellings and 2 pages of a homework book plus occasional projects for the 10 year old).

There are 3 adventure playgrounds, a swimming pool, tennis courts, loads of land, happy kids running around in bare feet, love it!!

[Carey]

Can't add any comments yet as still in UK but wanted to say to Moorf; Keep these myth posts coming! Thank you for taking the time to do them; they're invaluable and please don't stop!

[Helsandfamily]

Can't add any comments yet as still in UK but wanted to say to Moorf; Keep these myth posts coming! Thank you for taking the time to do them; they're invaluable and please don't stop!

I agree completely - thank you!!

hels

[dharder]

Are you bored of these yet?

not at all!

Or, does NZ have its fair share of unruly kids, disrespect towards teachers, expensive extras (uniform/books/activities etc), shabby buildings/equipment, low standards of behaviour, violence in the classroom and how does it compare to the country you've moved from?

There was an article in the Herald yesterday talking about this, apologies if this has been posted before.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10454525
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10454425

Quite apart from the odd mix of facts and political propaganda and the rather inappropriate use of a party logo (can we have a NZ Myth about the media, Moorf?), I was on one hand in an odd way glad to read there are problems over there as well: at least that way no one can blame the decline of respect and discipline on my unruly Year 3 7 year old!

On the other hand, I found this disheartening, because here, people keep reassuring us that our son won't have the same issues over there, because the system caters more for physically active, competetive and sporty boys.

The other thing I found a bit depressing was that the school system, just like here in the UK, varies so greatly according to where you live that people end up trying to get into catchment areas, and are prepared to pay lots of money for that. I had somehow hoped it wouldn't be quite as extreme.

We'll see how it all works out. Our kids are apparently going to a 'good' primary school, which will be a difference to the one they go to here in East London. But as I mentioned, we had some issues with one of our twin boys, so beware of the new Kray twins, Glendowie :)

Daniela, cautiously optimistic that schooling will be better over there

[Debbie P.]

Agree with above comments, these 'myth' debates are really useful!

One thing: what if you had a child who really WAS ready to start school earlier than 6 - is there any choice? Or is it a case of getting private tuition if you think your child is getting seriously frustrated?

Not that I would want my child to be under any academic stress early on as they are here in the UK, but I know of one very intelligent boy who is UTTERLY fed up because he's the oldest in his year and desperately bored and frustrated, and the family are trying to get the school to agree to put him up a year. I'd like to know if that is considered possible in NZ schools if the child's development really warrants it.

[wiki]

Agree with above comments, these 'myth' debates are really useful!

One thing: what if you had a child who really WAS ready to start school earlier than 6 - is there any choice? Or is it a case of getting private tuition if you think your child is getting seriously frustrated?



You can start school in NZ from the day of your 5th birthday (unless it's the school hols and then you have to wait for the start of term)

My OH and I have done a lot of comparison between our schooling - me in NZ state schooling and OH in the UK grammar school.

I think the fact NZ does five or six subjects from 15-onwards rather than the many GCSEs and then three or four A-levels gives a more rounded education and more employment options. Although saying that, I've heard there are a lot of teething problems with the NCEA system.

Although my school was "sporty" it was also heavily into more arty pursuits so there was no shortage of plays, musicals, debating and speech contests for those that were less inclined to get sweaty. We also got the chance to coach junior teams in things like netball which is a great way of teaching responsibility and management skills! My OH missed out on a lot of that stuff because school was such an academically focused place and desperate for league table results.

I'm not saying that there aren't schools like that in NZ, but I'd say there are more that offer more rounded educations and the stress is on individual development rather than school status.

[Debbie P.]

You can start school in NZ from the day of your 5th birthday (unless it's the school hols and then you have to wait for the start of term)


Thanks, that puts my mind at rest. :nice1

[movefromus]

Debbie - the entire time I lived there it was the norm for kids to start at 5 although 6 is the mandatory age.

[jackie m]

:nice1 I love the school here my daughter was 5, 10 days after they went back to school after christmas but as we were new to NZ & the area they asked if she wanted to start on the first day of term so actually started still aged 4. It worked perfectly as she made friends quickly as the class were all new entrants ALL 8 of them !!. The education is excellent so far. Again with huge sandpits,slides monkey bars etc etc. Swimming pool (not heated) but they enjoy it :laugh. Yes I have to agree with others they are allowed to be children longer but still learning at the same time which is great.
Jackie
ps come summer there will be tears again as she won't want to wear anything on her feet :D

[Carol]

I am a primary school teacher and have taught in NZ for 10 years. I am currently having a year off (actually aiming for a bit more now.... :nice1) but that is due more to personal circumstances than the school system.

My personal belief is that my two sons (who have been through 10 years of NZ schooling) have had a "different" education to what they would have had in the UK - where I also taught.
For them it HAS been better. It has catered more to their needs - with hindsight I think we would have done things a little differently - but who doesn't benefit from hindsight? This is mainly down to the fact the primary school was so small - a good thing for oldest son - but youngest son needed a wider social circle. Nothing at all to do with the education they got. He is much happier in the larger numbers at college. (High School).
Daughter has been enrolled in a much larger primary.

Some things are better - some not so good. the standard of handwriting here is appalling. However.... is that more important than learning skills? Not in my opinion.

Yes - sport is a biggie here........leaves me cold - but the kids thrive on it.

Neither of my boys are particularly "academic" but my oldest (currently Yr 13 - taking NCEA 3) has developed good work ethics with a balanced view of life. ie All work and no play makes him a very sad boy.
He does what he needs to do.

Younger son is very arty. And has a lot to say. ;)
He is kept well under control by the school and his skills ARE being developed.

My daughter (8) - a kiwi - is doing very well.
Her ICT skills, numeracy development and reading are well above what I (as a teacher) would consider average.

It REALLY depends on the school......and of course the child.
What is great for one kid - is not right for another.
When we first came to NZ we enrolled oldest son into a school that came highly recommended by other recent migrants.
It wasn't right for him and within 6 months we moved him.

You have to go and visit the schools. PLEASE don't think you can choose a school from internet sites. (Or even from what others tell you).

And bear in mind - the NZ education system is simply not right for everyone.
Or maybe it's more - some people are not right for it?

[Super_BQ]

Those interested in staying in NZ should have no problems with the current education system. However, it's important to know that a university degree in NZ does not hold the same amount of water as a degree earned in the US/Can or Australia. I saw my cousins that did their undergrad in 3 years and were able to jump to areas to earn a masters degree which was totally irrelevant to the undergrad degree of study. For eg. one did a science degree and was able to finish his MBA (Masters of Business Admin) 2 years after. Another cousin of mine did a psychology degree and crossed over to do an honors degree in business marketing. Something like this is not possible in Canada or in the US (and i'm pretty sure the same in Australia). It would only seem logical that if you were to continue on studies in a masters degree program, the student would also have a background in that area of study. Nevertheless, most will find continuing a post graduate degree overseas will not count the same credits as a 4 year degree earned there.

What I find interesting is how fast one can become a full medical doctor in NZ. Within 2 years after highschool, one can be straight into medical school down in Otago. Overseas in the US/Can, it's the student's entrance into medical or law school is based on the performance of their uni degree. (I couldn't see how my cousin did an accounting and law degree within 5 years at Canterbury Uni in Christchurch).

Around 4 or 5 years ago, NZ minister of education did a major change to the secondary education system. They removed 'national standards' where students are not assessed to the degree of A, Bs, & Cs, but rather more of a 'check + or check -' system (or what ever standard the school thought was suitable). Shortly after implementing this change, my cousin's husband (who was a TA at a uni in Palmerston North) had nothing but complaints how 1st year students could not even write a proper essay to prove their research ; some couldn't even write a proper paragraph. After attending my cousin's highschool graduation that year, there were plenty complaints by the teachers at that ceremony saying the change is a bad move.

http://www.minedu.govt.nz/index.cfm?layout=document&documentid=6169&goto=00-03

Though this may be acceptable in the school environment, we must remember this is nothing like that in the real world. We live in an environment that everything is graded. From the food we eat to who is best at doing their job. Same applies in all trade practices as one builder may do the minimum while another will not accept the minimum.

Is it acceptable that primary students (in the last years) still don't get homework over the weekend?

Carefully read that link above that explains the overall NZ education system. One will find that each school in NZ can operate independantly from a national standard.

[willsken]

Around 4 or 5 years ago, NZ minister of education did a major change to the secondary education system. They removed 'national standards' where students are not assessed to the degree of A, Bs, & Cs, but rather more of a 'check + or check -' system (or what ever standard the school thought was suitable).

http://www.minedu.govt.nz/index.cfm?layout=document&documentid=6169&goto=00-03

Though this may be acceptable in the school environment, we must remember this is nothing like that in the real world. We live in an environment that everything is graded. From the food we eat to who is best at doing their job. Same applies in all trade practices as one builder may do the minimum while another will not accept the minimum.

Although Unit Standards are used here (the pass/fail that was mentioned above) most departments in my school choose to use the Achievement Standards, which are graded. Achieved, Merit and Excellence can be gained. To be fair to the system, only the very bright kids are gaining all Excellence Standards.

[dharder]

However, it's important to know that a university degree in NZ does not hold the same amount of water as a degree earned in the US/Can or Australia.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'doesn't hold the same water.' I've experience in studying in three different countries, and no country is ever prepared to accept that another's educational system might be as good as its own, or in some cases even better. So no matter where you study, if you want to transfer, you will never have everything accepted as credit that you think the university should accept. Regardless of country.

As for the specifics of an individual degree, can't comment on that, would that expect to really be rather specific, and any 'evidence' of one thing or the other rather anecdotal. So it is probabaly not advisable for other people to draw general conclusions.

If you mean academic content of degrees when you talk about 'holding water', again I would expect that to be rather varied, in especially in the US largely dependant on what university you go to. On the whole, I found especially the first two years of US college education rather pathetic, but would hope that to be different at other universities. However, it wouldn't surprise me to find that the degrees take longer in the US because the academic standards of the students starting is lower than in other countries (again, I'm sure that varies and depends on what school you come from and what school you go to).

In short, I do not think it is possible to draw general concusions about the quality of tertiary education in any country, there are just far too many variables.

Daniela

[Carol]

I've experience in studying in three different countries, and no country is ever prepared to accept that another's educational system might be as good as its own, or in some cases even better. So no matter where you study, if you want to transfer, you will never have everything accepted as credit that you think the university should accept. Regardless of country.

Daniela


absolutely correct.

My teacher training PGCE in the UK put me only halfway on the NZ teachers' pay scale compared to where I had been in the UK.

Simply because I was "overseas trained".

It is the same with tradesmen. Corgi registered etc means very little here.
It's actually laughable.

[Carol]

Is it acceptable that primary students (in the last years) still don't get homework over the weekend?



In short - yes.

[willsken]

Have to agree with Carol. I don't want my son, at primary school, to have too much homework. He has some and it's enough that he still enjoys doing it. I have a constant fight with the older boy to do homework every night. I for one would rather he enjoyed his extra curricular activities every night. (Didn't have many of those in the UK) The younger boy, even though he doesn't have that much homework reads a book every night, just because he has time and he wants to. Much better.

[JoHnH]

Native Kiwi comment:
Have great difficulty in figuring out what point Super BQ is making, but boy his automatic denigration of all things Kiwi gets on ones tits after a while.
Just for the record - my elder daughter, after a totally conventional NZ education, with superb primary schooling, had no difficulty completing a MSc (Honours) at Auckland University. This was sufficient to gain entry to the Doctoral program at ANU (Australian National University) and a lucrative research career in genetics, which has places like Oxford and Harvard courting her.
Lots of her friends have followed similar trajectories.

No, no, sir, you lie! That can't be a typical NZ story!

Oh yes it is.

Mate.

[Debbie P.]

However, it's important to know that a university degree in NZ does not hold the same amount of water as a degree earned in the US/Can or Australia.

I find this comment particularly ironic, as a US exchange maths teacher at my OH's (UK) secondary school commented that a class of 14 year olds that he taught in the US were roughly 18 months behind the UK equivalent - in his view!

So, I wouldn't be too concerned, as it strikes me that equally the comments could relate to a US/Canadian education not being viewed as 'good enough' elsewhere. Don't get me wrong - I'm not casting aspersions on anyone's education! I'm just saying that education at different stages seems to be different everywhere, and it's going to be a risk that anyone will face upon moving to another country.

[SarahEDH]

I saw my cousins that did their undergrad in 3 years and were able to jump to areas to earn a masters degree which was totally irrelevant to the undergrad degree of study. For eg. one did a science degree and was able to finish his MBA (Masters of Business Admin) 2 years after. . . . Something like this is not possible in Canada or in the US (and i'm pretty sure the same in Australia). It would only seem logical that if you were to continue on studies in a masters degree program, the student would also have a background in that area of study.


I think Super B_Q's post is a wind-up, to see if we're awake out here. Among other problematic aspects of his post, his statement about graduate education is completely wrong in regard to the U.S.

Many well-regarded MBA programs in the United States are structured on a two-year model that does not require an undergraduate education in business; students are admitted with degrees in liberal arts, engineering, health sciences and a host of other disciplines. Especially desirable to employers are those well-rounded MBA graduates who performed well in their undergrad technical disciplines as well as in B-school.

A graduate degree may be taken in a different field of study for any number of reasons -- pure academic curiosity, a desire to make more $$, or a change of heart about current or future career directions. Nothing illogical about it --

[swissmissdesigner]

When I looked at NZ graduate student works who majored in Architectural Interior Design or Landscape Architecture, I realized that they are somewhere in the US. Bachelor level or below.
For example: their hand drafting or CAD skills are far less advanced. Most likely NZ interior designers are like US interior decorators which is different.
I also missed the sense for colors in they projects...

[dharder]

For example: their hand drafting or CAD skills are far less advanced. Most likely NZ interior designers are like US interior decorators which is different.
I also missed the sense for colors in they projects...

I don't think international comparisons of the quality of tertiary education work like this on a more general scale. Anedcotes are just that, anecdotes, they will never be able to convey a complete picture (if there is one).

As John said above, there are plenty of NZs who have no problems getting into respected Universities in the UK or the US, and there are plenty of USAmericans in college who struggle to come to terms with basic concepts of grammar and spelling. However, I find those facts rather meaningless, and the attempt to compare whole educational systems futile and doomed to fail from the start (and this includes attempts like the OECD Pisa study)

Find out what personally interests you, where a good place would be to study that particular subject, how the education from various places is valued in other countries if living in other countries is something you want to do, and then make a decision. Also always posit that every country thinks their system is far superior to everyone else's.

I personally don't think that, however true, the experiences of Super BQ's cousins or the CAD skills of people that swissmiss has talked to should influence someone's opinion about an entire system.

Daniela

[Debbie P.]

Find out what personally interests you, where a good place would be to study that particular subject, how the education from various places is valued in other countries if living in other countries is something you want to do, and then make a decision. Also always posit that every country thinks their system is far superior to everyone else's.

Great advice, and what I meant to say but much better worded. :clap

[JoHnH]

The Times Higher Education Supplement ranks the top 200 Universities in the World. There is some controversy over individual rankings, but it provides a general guide to standards.
Auckland is rated 46=, placing it about on par with say Manchester in the UK, British Columbia in Canada.
Otago is the only other NZ University in the top 200, but degrees from all NZ Unis are more-or-less interchangeable.
The standards of NZ Universities have not been affected by the current NCEA experiment.
We're not part of the Third World yet.

[phatsharpie]

Many well-regarded MBA programs in the United States are structured on a two-year model that does not require an undergraduate education in business; students are admitted with degrees in liberal arts, engineering, health sciences and a host of other disciplines. Especially desirable to employers are those well-rounded MBA graduates who performed well in their undergrad technical disciplines as well as in B-school.

Agreed. I know plenty of people in the US who obtained their MBA's even though their undergrad degrees where in non-business related fields (liberal arts, computer science, etc.).

See:
http://businessmajors.about.com/od/choosingaschool/f/MajorFAQ.htm
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/mba-success-undergrad-degree.html

Brian

[Sam B]

And I second the bit about homework - Even most adults get to take a break from work at the weekends, so why on earth shouldn't a 10 year old???!!!!

[Lupin]

My experience of NZ primary education is so far positive in the extreme :nice1


Carol- I read your comment about handwriting with interest as the standard of handwriting that I'm seeing in the school my daughter attends and that I work at is quite incredible, so again proabably varies hugely.

I'd be happy if my children had homework set to be done in the week with weekends free for many, many years to come.

I could go on and on about how much I am loving this aspect of our lives here, but I'll bore you all; suffice to say, I'd do all of this emigration lark for the schooling alone :)

[Sam B]

me too

[Carey]

Lupin and Sam B, can you elaborate on your positive comments re school; the outdoor/sport side sounds fab, not too worried about academic as our kids are bright; we just would like a more rounded education, less pressure towards SATs and the other big one is fitting in. Here in Suffolk/N. Essex the kids in the minority are the ones who love the outdoors, being active, not interested in material things, doing family stuff as opposed to the fashion conscious, street wise groups. Our kids don't quite 'fit' at their schools; they have good friends outside school who enjoy the same sort of things, so holidays are great as they are free to get together but in term time its not so good. I know its chance who you end up at school with and you don't always make pals at every stage but am I dreaming when I think that in NZ there are more 'natural ' kids?

BTW Lupin, DO go on and on about the schooling, its VERY interesting for us here (I have double interest being a primary teacher and parent), and I'm hoping it may be the one aspect that helps persuade my OH to commit to the move!

[Sam B]

Hi Carey

If you have outdoorsy kids who like nature, wildlife, conservation, making up day-long games with dens and sticks, this is the country for them!! My kids were ok in Cornwall, but there was still not enough emphasis on outdoor stuff and play. In fact my 10 year old used to hate playtimes in Cornwall and hide in the library, and now she LOVES break times. We have talked about why this is, and she says it was just cold and boring at playtime in the UK. There was 1 tiny piece of adventure play equipment, and each class had to take it in turns to have a go on different days. Other than this there was nothing specific to DO at breaktimes, and it is very rainy and windy in Cornwall a lot of the time.

In her NZ school there are 3 massive adventure playgrounds, and both my kids LOVE them (they look like monkeys on them) but here is also tonnes of space and a swimming pool that they can use at lunch time when it is hot, plus unlimited access to balls etc. There is also daily P.E. of some sort, which I thought my kids would hate (they are not sporty types) but they love it, they manage to make it fun somehow.

My elder daughter (10) is a brainbox, I'm not just being a proud mum, she really is, and she was bored stiff at school in Cornwall, never really learned a thing except a bit of maths, but here she is really challenged and loving the work. The main differences are:

1) Her teacher competently differentiates the work for all members of the class
2) The children know exactly what they are supposed to be doing at all times and also know exactly what will happen throughout the day - this was not the case in UK school, I used to volunteer for an hour a week, and the children hardly ever knew what they were supposed to be doing.
3) There is much more emphasis on basics like spelling, grammar, tables, mental arithmatic and handwriting. This was quite neglected at the UK school. My daughter used to get the same spellings as everyone else, but now she gets spellings that many adults struggle with, like 'accommodation' and 'definitely'. She got some spellings wrong in a test for the first time ever and she has now started to actually learn them for the tests!
4) There is more homework here, it is only on weekdays, it is appropriate for the child's ability, the child knows exactly what to do and there are consequences if it is not done and signed by parent. I often found scrumpled worksheets in the bottom of my daughters' bags in the UK and they had been there for weeks, with no consequences and no homework diary so I could check.
5) The classrooms are quiet, with little or no discipline issues. I don't know how they achieve this, but may be due to good levels of physical activities.
6) No SATs but good levels of ongoing assessment, clearly displayed in termly portfolios.
7) Termly meetings with teachers and termly written reports
8) An emphasis on enquiry and self assessment, particularly for older daughter.

My younger daughter is good at art. Next term there is to be a special group for gifted artists in the juniors (the younger ones) and she has been put forward for it. Nurturing special abilities seems to be the norm.

BLISS!!!!

[incredible hulse]

My son is currently at Kindy which is very good - the kids just seem to play all session and there is a nice indoor/outdoor flow to the place with lots of different areas set up for them to explore.
My wife is also looking at primary schools in Raumati and Pram and her comments are that they all appear to be nice but facilities wise they are behind the times (these are ranging from Decile 5-9); as a teacher she keeps harping on about the lack of interactive whiteboards here. Also she feels the work is slightly behind the UK level but likes the outdoot aspect of the schools also.
The one area we are disappointed in is the SEN provision and funding which seems to be very under resourced.

[Carey]

Sam B , I agree it sounds bliss, wish I'd been to that school! Just the answer I was hoping for! Thank you for taking the time to write it.

[dharder]

as a teacher she keeps harping on about the lack of interactive whiteboards here. Also she feels the work is slightly behind the UK level but likes the outdoot aspect of the schools also.


I am not a teacher, nor do I play one on TV, but boy, those interactive (interruptive, as my older kids call them) whiteboards have made my blood boil on more than one occasion.

My little ones' nursery has them (nursery!) newly installed. We get the most grubby looking, inane and boring little readers for the kids, outdated, overused and not interesting. Most of the kids (and rather too many of the teachers and classroom assistants) can't spell to save their lives, yet somehow they manage to get funding for technology. I really wish they'd stop emphasising IT before getting around to the basics.

Okay, after the rant, all I meant to say was that personally, I don't think lack of the latest gadgets should necessarily be offputting (at least at primary school level).

Daniela

[dharder]

Thank you for writing the long post, Sam. I know that this will be different from school to school, and obviously mine won't be attending your kids' school, but this does give me hope.

The only reason (I'm sure I've said before) for me to agree to this whole emigrating trouble is that I'm hoping the schools will be better for the children. We have one 'troublemaker' who really suffers from lack of physical activity (playtime much like yours in Cornwall, minus the adventure play equipment), and I am hoping he'll have a better time there. Well, he WILL have a better time there, can't get any worse.

Anyway, I might have to print out your post, Sam, and stick it on my fridge to remind me in why I'm doing this...

Daniela

[incredible hulse]

Okay, after the rant, all I meant to say was that personally, I don't think lack of the latest gadgets should necessarily be offputting (at least at primary school level).

Daniela
You'll be happy here then

[Debbie P.]

I am not a teacher, nor do I play one on TV, but boy, those interactive (interruptive, as my older kids call them) whiteboards have made my blood boil on more than one occasion.

And it sounds like they might be bad for the eyes in the long run, anyway?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6253410.stm

[aberdian]

those interactive (interruptive, as my older kids call them) whiteboards have made my blood boil on more than one occasion.

My goodness, I'd never even heard of them until coming on here and my wee boys in primary 3 in a very good school now. Seems like a complete waste of money for primary schools to me........

[incredible hulse]

And it sounds like they might be bad for the eyes in the long run, anyway?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6253410.stm
I wouldn't worry the kids' brains will be frazzled before their eyes go with all the mobile phones that some parents think they have to have these days ;)

[Lupin]

You said it so well Sam, I've just added to your thoughts ... hope that's okay!
In her NZ school there are 3 massive adventure playgrounds, and both my kids LOVE them (they look like monkeys on them) but here is also tonnes of space and a swimming pool that they can use at lunch time when it is hot, plus unlimited access to balls etc. There is also daily P.E. of some sort, which I thought my kids would hate (they are not sporty types) but they love it, they manage to make it fun somehow. Same experience for us in rural Hawkes Bay. they have a sport on the go each term (cross country this term) but also do a daily sport session plus out of school sport clubs (dd is doing hockey ... practice and a match each week). We have a swimming pool that they swim in daily through summer. they have a massive field, a park that would shame most UK councils, a small orchard and a native reserve area plus tennis courts and hidey spaces. they have a sports shed dripping with equipment that they have free access to in playtimes ( and is monitored by the kids). Tree climbing is encouraged as is den building from various bits of junk in a den building area. They are trusted and respond well to that trust.

My elder daughter (10) is a brainbox, I'm not just being a proud mum, she really is, and she was bored stiff at school in Cornwall, never really learned a thing except a bit of maths, but here she is really challenged and loving the work. I have had similar experience. I really bite my lip when I read people saying things about NZ education being too focused on the non-essentials. After three UK primary schools and 18 months homeschooling we have finally found a school that challenges her!

The main differences are:

1) Her teacher competently differentiates the work for all members of the class Yup, 20 kids in my dd's class across three school years. Also they're not afraid to move kids up or down a year if needed and it's no biggie
2) The children know exactly what they are supposed to be doing at all times and also know exactly what will happen throughout the day - this was not the case in UK school, I used to volunteer for an hour a week, and the children hardly ever knew what they were supposed to be doing.
3) There is much more emphasis on basics like spelling, grammar, tables, mental arithmatic and handwriting. This was quite neglected at the UK school. My daughter used to get the same spellings as everyone else, but now she gets spellings that many adults struggle with, like 'accommodation' and 'definitely'. She got some spellings wrong in a test for the first time ever and she has now started to actually learn them for the tests! Same here!
4) There is more homework here, it is only on weekdays, it is appropriate for the child's ability, the child knows exactly what to do and there are consequences if it is not done and signed by parent. I often found scrumpled worksheets in the bottom of my daughters' bags in the UK and they had been there for weeks, with no consequences and no homework diary so I could check. Same here!
5) The classrooms are quiet, with little or no discipline issues. I don't know how they achieve this, but may be due to good levels of physical activities. Same here (pattern emerging here ...) 6) No SATs but good levels of ongoing assessment, clearly displayed in termly portfolios.
7) Termly meetings with teachers and termly written reports ditto
8) An emphasis on enquiry and self assessment, particularly for older daughter. ditto and I love this ... what else is education about but developing an enquiring mind. UK education imo is stifled by targets and tests and has become about "mug and jug" style learning (ie the teacher's job is to hold the mug still enough to pour in ...) whereas I can see my daughter developing here as a person, as a learner and as an individual.

My younger daughter is good at art. Next term there is to be a special group for gifted artists in the juniors (the younger ones) and she has been put forward for it. Nurturing special abilities seems to be the norm. I couldn't agree more. Now I actually work at the school I see the effort that goes into nurturing the potential of each kid. I believe that we're having a great schooling experience as a result of the happy marriage of NZ education in a human-scale (small) school.
BLISS!!!! Do our kids attend the same school and we haven't realised it?!? :laugh

[Lupin]

My wife is also looking at primary schools in Raumati and Pram and her comments are that they all appear to be nice but facilities wise they are behind the times (these are ranging from Decile 5-9); as a teacher she keeps harping on about the lack of interactive whiteboards here.

Our school of 53 kids has a library with 10+ pc IT suite and an interactive whiteboard. It does get used but not heaps. If the budget was mine I wouldn't have bothered because learning from any sort of board is quite a limited experience for young kids imo.

[incredible hulse]

Our school of 53 kids has a library with 10+ pc IT suite and an interactive whiteboard. It does get used but not heaps. If the budget was mine I wouldn't have bothered because learning from any sort of board is quite a limited experience for young kids imo.
Good to hear and shows the usefulness of these posts IMHO as it shows that things are not the same everywhere and everyone's opinion is subjective, especially on the school front (I was reading Sam's post and thinking the virtues of the NZ school was exactly what we experienced with our UK schools). Re: IW's I have personally seen the benefits of these but again the thoughts (and implementation I have seen) has not been that these are an addition and not a replacement for all teaching

[StevieD]

My experience is that our Kid's school in Cambridge (Goodwood School) is completely WONDERFUL with fab teachers, loads of outdoor activities, much better discipline, higher standards of teaching, more emphasis on basics like spelling and tables, and both my children are being pushed more than they were in the UK. There is more homework than they had (reading every night and spellings weekly for the 6 year old and tables, hard spellings and 2 pages of a homework book plus occasional projects for the 10 year old).

There are 3 adventure playgrounds, a swimming pool, tennis courts, loads of land, happy kids running around in bare feet, love it!!


Have to agree with all Sam has said, St. Peter's catholic in the heart of Cambridge is a wonderful school and community. Our kids have never asked to be off school ONCE since they started there. There are 2 adventure playgrounds, pool, rugby pitch on field, great, brand new IT suite, and just the nicest bunch of teachers you could wish for. The kids get plenty of homework, Kieran is in the gifted maths group on a programme devised by the University of Waikato, and they are both heavily involved in everything the school offers. Louisa has just been placed in to the competitive running team and is a netball starlet already. Can't be happier to see our kids happy in their school, something which is worth coming her alone for.

Steve

[Moorf]

What? No bad education stories? :uhoh

[Carol]

All great stories.... awesome to hear.

I have to add - that as a teacher - I have learnt more here about QUALITY teaching and learning than I ever did in the UK.

The PD opportunities are fantastic and all aimed at getting the best out of every child.

And never having to spend a whole year working towards SATS again is heaven! Such things are a huge burden on the education system in the UK.
(Not to mention the kids!)

On IT - (as an IT leader in a school - I agree my opinion MAY be slightly biased..... but..... ) our kids are growing up in a very different world to that which we grew up in.
It is their absolute right to have access to the technologies available to assist them in their learning. They are as much a tool as a pencil and book is.
An interactive whiteboard is only as powerful as the teacher who uses it and sees the opportunities to use it. I would have thought I'd have died and gone to heaven if I'd had one in my classroom.
It should never be thought of as a replacement for a black/white board but as an acess to a world of information.........

I could never teach now without the use of a digital camera.
Amazing but true.

[Carol]

What? No bad education stories? :uhoh

I can tell you one...... not involving me or my children but a lady I met here a few months ago.
She had a boy and twin girl sat the same school as my daughter. The boy was badly bullied (emotionally)...... girls were fine as far as I know.
Money difficulties for the family seemed to compound the problems and they went back to the UK within 3 months I believe.

The school did have strategies in place and dealt with the bullying as best they could - but I think it all got too hard in the end.
Mum seemed really depressed.... They returned.

Maybe not such a good example - and I did only hear her side of the situation..... so perhaps not such a good one.
:(

[Moorf]

Good point though Carol - was the bullying because he was "new" and not a Kiwi - is this something many immigrant kids have to deal with here?

[Carol]

Good point though Carol - was the bullying because he was "new" and not a Kiwi - is this something many immigrant kids have to deal with here?

Yes - I think so Helen.
They seemed a lovely family.... really quite a sad story.

I know my own boys still have a slight geordie "twang" and are still referred to as pommie kids 11 years on.... they couldnt care less though.
:laugh

[Lupin]

My daughter has had the odd tease about her accent but she is a pretty hardy soul and took it goodnaturedly, didn't let it phase her it's been a while since she was seen as an 'outsider' I think.

I know of a family in ChCh where sadly the lovely daughter suffered terrible bullying problems and although the school did eventually do everything right and she received much counselling, some of the damage is irreversible. Must be heartbreaking to bring your kids here for a better life, to go through all that change and upheaval and then have to deal with every parent's fear; bullying :(

[Lupin]

our kids are growing up in a very different world to that which we grew up in.
It is their absolute right to have access to the technologies available to assist them in their learning. They are as much a tool as a pencil and book is.
An interactive whiteboard is only as powerful as the teacher who uses it and sees the opportunities to use it. I would have thought I'd have died and gone to heaven if I'd had one in my classroom.
It should never be thought of as a replacement for a black/white board but as an acess to a world of information.........

I agree, especially with those first two sentences. I do think an IWB is a bit of a white elephant unless you've got very IT savvy staff to use it though.

[willsken]

On IT - (as an IT leader in a school - I agree my opinion MAY be slightly biased..... but..... ) our kids are growing up in a very different world to that which we grew up in.
It is their absolute right to have access to the technologies available to assist them in their learning. They are as much a tool as a pencil and book is.
An interactive whiteboard is only as powerful as the teacher who uses it and sees the opportunities to use it. I would have thought I'd have died and gone to heaven if I'd had one in my classroom.
It should never be thought of as a replacement for a black/white board but as an acess to a world of information.........

I could never teach now without the use of a digital camera.
Amazing but true.

Completely agree.... but then I do run the IT department! :roll :D

[incredible hulse]

I agree, especially with those first two sentences. I do think an IWB is a bit of a white elephant unless you've got very IT savvy staff to use it though.
Trust me you don't have to be IT savvy to use - my wife manages just fine ;)

[Carol]

Completely agree.... but then I do run the IT department! :roll :D

birds of a feather....
:cheers:D

[Carol]

Trust me you don't have to be IT savvy to use - my wife manages just fine ;)



ooooooooooooooohhhh!!!!!!!
lol

[dharder]

It is their absolute right to have access to the technologies available to assist them in their learning. They are as much a tool as a pencil and book is.
An interactive whiteboard is only as powerful as the teacher who uses it and sees the opportunities to use it. I would have thought I'd have died and gone to heaven if I'd had one in my classroom.
It should never be thought of as a replacement for a black/white board but as an acess to a world of information.........

I absolutely don't object to new technologies, and the use of them in the classroom. However, my objection is a) is buying interactive whiteboards instead of books a sensible way to spend limited resources in a nursery, and b) if you can't spell, even wikipedia won't give you access to the world of information.

It is fine to have a laptop in nursery and primary school to get them used to using a mouse, or familiar with the concept of computers. It is not fine to squander (imnsho) resources on items of limited use for the audience. A three year old (at least mine) are happy to look at a bit of cardboard with a picture of a sun held up by the teacher, they don't need to look at the sun on screen.

Older kids and secondary school are a completely different matter, and of course they need to be introduced to new technologies. Still, I'd rather have them spell first and do computers later.

I've just read through 51 applications for my job here (an IT job), there where about 2 that had a good grasp on English spelling and grammar. So I suppose an issue dear to my heart is rather more topical for me at the moment. I'm sure I can teach my replacement how to use the appropriate software for a particular purpose, but I can't start from scratch teaching them how to spell...

Daniela

[Carol]

Spelling mistakes in a job application are inexcusable.


Even if you can't spell - there are plenty of ways of checking.

It really bugs me when I read mistakes too..... even on the forum!
However - writing on a forum is quite different to writing a job application.

[Debbie P.]

I've just read through 51 applications for my job here (an IT job), there where about 2 that had a good grasp on English spelling and grammar. So I suppose an issue dear to my heart is rather more topical for me at the moment. I'm sure I can teach my replacement how to use the appropriate software for a particular purpose, but I can't start from scratch teaching them how to spell...

Daniela

In some ways, I think I was born at the best time - still old enough to remember a more classical education but (just about!) young enough to get to grips with new technologies. Still... I do wonder what they teach 'em these days... and my OH's an English teacher! Just the other day, I had to talk a Masters degree student through how to address an envelope so that she could send something to me! I think I said something like "Poole... in Dorset" (i.e. just to clarify the county she needed to put down), and she replied "Oh, do I have to write 'Poole in Dorset' then?". Um... not quite!

Now, I appreciate the fact that she may not need to send a letter very often, but there MUST be some occasions?!

But I'm sure that's very picky - probably just my old-fashioned view.

[aberdian]

Some good points on both sides about IWBs' I'd never heard of them. My sons school has good computer access and they are exposed to computers from nursery upwards but I'll bet the school hasn't heard of IWBs either..... My goals for him, certainly for early primary years is get him reading and writing confidently. Anything else is gravy, and I'd rather money was spent on books and pencils and things to do rather than something to look at.

I'd kind of like one for work tho.......

[Carol]

I think you will find that literacy and numeracy are at the forefront of any school's budgeting..... no matter where you live.

[Carol]

I'd kind of like one for work tho.......

Wouldnt mind one to play on at home actually!
:laugh

[incredible hulse]

I absolutely don't object to new technologies, and the use of them in the classroom. However, my objection is a) is buying interactive whiteboards instead of books a sensible way to spend limited resources in a nursery, and b) if you can't spell, even wikipedia won't give you access to the world of information.

It is fine to have a laptop in nursery and primary school to get them used to using a mouse, or familiar with the concept of computers. It is not fine to squander (imnsho) resources on items of limited use for the audience. A three year old (at least mine) are happy to look at a bit of cardboard with a picture of a sun held up by the teacher, they don't need to look at the sun on screen.

Older kids and secondary school are a completely different matter, and of course they need to be introduced to new technologies. Still, I'd rather have them spell first and do computers later.

I've just read through 51 applications for my job here (an IT job), there where about 2 that had a good grasp on English spelling and grammar. So I suppose an issue dear to my heart is rather more topical for me at the moment. I'm sure I can teach my replacement how to use the appropriate software for a particular purpose, but I can't start from scratch teaching them how to spell...

Daniela
Maybe if they'd learnt IT earlier they could have worked out how to use the spell checker ;)

[Debbie P.]

Maybe if they'd learnt IT earlier they could have worked out how to use the spell checker ;)

Yeah, but what have we come to when people have to use spell checkers all the time? What's wrong with using that old familiar tool: the brain?

I'm no technophobe, but over-reliance can be dangerous - what would happen is there was a prolonged power cut and you had to (shock horror) write your job application out by hand?!

[dharder]

Maybe if they'd learnt IT earlier they could have worked out how to use the spell checker ;)

Which of course doesn't help at all with 'their', 'there', 'they're', things like 'from' and 'form', 'it's and 'its', etc, or with using wrong words altogether, and not being familiar with any sort of sentence structure.

Honestly, I'm not opposed to techonology, it's what pays my bills (I'm one of those IT people as well, of which there are numerous around here, it seems). But I do think you need to know the basics of the language before you can trust a spell checker. :)

Daniela

[stu70]

Trusting a Microsoft spell checker?? I would rather trust george bush with making peace in the mid east! Since when did it become fashionable to spell cheque as check, colour as color, neighbour as neighbor etc. etc. It is really annoying when auto check kicks in and suggests you correct the spellings to make them compatible with "Bill Gates-lish". Best way is still the traditional way; learn to read and write the way it used to be before computers came along.

[Carol]

Personally I think the writing is on the wall for much of the English Language.
Watch a teenager txting.
Do you think their priorities are the differences between their there and they're?

I'm not saying it's right - I'm just saying they communicate in a very different way now. ALL of them!
The future is in their hands....

A worry for us.....but it all means little to them.

[incredible hulse]

Which of course doesn't help at all with 'their', 'there', 'they're', things like 'from' and 'form', 'it's and 'its', etc, or with using wrong words altogether, and not being familiar with any sort of sentence structure.

Honestly, I'm not opposed to techonology, it's what pays my bills (I'm one of those IT people as well, of which there are numerous around here, it seems). But I do think you need to know the basics of the language before you can trust a spell checker. :)

Daniela Daniela - it was a joke. I personally wouldn't trust any Microsoft *ite.

[Sam B]

and don't even get me started on your and you're!

P.S. Sorry about starting a sentence with 'and' btw!

[Moorf]

Trusting a Microsoft spell checker?? I would rather trust george bush with making peace in the mid east! Since when did it become fashionable to spell cheque as check, colour as color, neighbour as neighbor etc. etc.One of the publications I write for is an American e-business magazine. They insist that I spell in American-English (favor instead of favour, specialize instead of specialise, etc). It's quite normal for this to be stipulated.

I don't find it annoying, it's just certain nuances that you need to be aware of.

What I find terrible is that MS Word's grammatical "corrections" are often totally wrong - i.e. too where it should be to, its when it should be it's... grrrr

I "type as I talk" (and about the same speed) on forums, and I am careless about checking, but there's no excuse with official/formal comms imho.

[incredible hulse]

All great stories.... awesome to hear.

I have to add - that as a teacher - I have learnt more here about QUALITY teaching and learning than I ever did in the UK.

The PD opportunities are fantastic and all aimed at getting the best out of every child.

And never having to spend a whole year working towards SATS again is heaven! Such things are a huge burden on the education system in the UK.
(Not to mention the kids!)

On IT - (as an IT leader in a school - I agree my opinion MAY be slightly biased..... but..... ) our kids are growing up in a very different world to that which we grew up in.
It is their absolute right to have access to the technologies available to assist them in their learning. They are as much a tool as a pencil and book is.
An interactive whiteboard is only as powerful as the teacher who uses it and sees the opportunities to use it. I would have thought I'd have died and gone to heaven if I'd had one in my classroom.
It should never be thought of as a replacement for a black/white board but as an acess to a world of information.........

I could never teach now without the use of a digital camera.
Amazing but true.
Totally agree, and I must admit that I would hate to be a teacher as it seems that there are so many experts out there who know better than you. I would personally laugh at someone if they suggested I give a presentation with a blackboard and chalk in business, or even use a typewriter to write up reports rather than a PC - yet it seems that the use of a OHP or IW to aid learning is frowned upon by many because they are kids. We are not talking about these replacing the learning of the 3 R's but as an assistance to it.

[incredible hulse]

What? No bad education stories? :uhoh

Well this is the school we are checking out next week ;)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4150769a11.html

[nippa&pippa]

maori language is another language that children learned at kindy/school..as well as on children TV, like my children's favourite is "The Go Show"..my dd who is just 18months old get very exciting when that programme is on :o
Last night after they had bath, we watch recorded of The Go Show as clashed with picking up my ds from Kindy. After watched it, I asked my ds what is maori word for "goodbye" as was just mentioned on The Go Show, he stopped and thinking long hard before he replied "byebye", of course my OH and I was laughed :laugh

[Moorf]

Well this is the school we are checking out next week ;)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4150769a11.html

:eek: Looking forward to your views!!

[Lupin]

Sounds like the school dealt with it well though.

Mr Elms and acting board of trustees chairman David Lynch said in a statement that the pupils involved were then suspended.

"This kind of behaviour is unacceptable and was dealt with swiftly and appropriately.

"The three students were immediately suspended by the principal and complaints laid with the police."

The board of trustees would decide whether the pupils could return.

All students were informed of the facts and a special school newsletter has been sent to parents.

Mr Elms and Mr Lynch said the attacks were a lesson in parental responsibility.

"These children made totally unacceptable choices, as did the parents in allowing them to bring BB guns to school.

"Parents need to know what their children are doing and the types of toys they are using."

Sergeant Stu Laurie confirmed police were investigating the shootings and said the culprits would be referred to Youth Aid.

[willsken]

TBH, the only thing that really amazes me about this, is it made the papers. Maybe after spending years teaching in secondary schools, I've seen so much worse and on many occasions it didn't even result in a suspension for the kids.

[gpbenton]

5) The classrooms are quiet, with little or no discipline issues. I don't know how they achieve this, but may be due to good levels of physical activities.


I have seen this posted often on the forum.

I suspected before I arrived that it had something to do with diet, but having seen what Kiwis eat, that doesn't seem likely - just as much fast food junk available here as anywhere.

Does anyone involved in schools have any ideas as to how it happens?

Some possibilities I've thought of:-

The teachers are better.
The parents are better.
The school set up (administration) is better.
The TV is so bad that kids don't watch as much.

I really can't tell if any or none of these is true, but the whole thing has become a puzzle to me. :confused: