[Diny]

Here's another one of those questions that have no real importance or point - but will produce some interestiong opinions and answers (hopefully).

I'd like to bring up the subject of 'being a Kiwi'.

I'm sitting on the fence when I ask this question (but leaning ever so slightly to one side), I'm not trying to be smart, belittling or antagonistic - I'm just curious.

I've seen many many comments by made loads of different people about how they are looking forward to becoming a Kiwi.

Do these comments really just mean that folks are looking forward to starting a new life in NZ or am I splitting hairs by suggesting they will class themselves as a Kiwi once they live over there?

We have to have PR in NZ for a minimum of 5 years before we can even consider applying for dual citizenship. How can we be Kiwi's with a UK passport? :?

As you know I'm married to a Kiwi. PB has been living over here for many years but I can tell you without any hesitation that he's never called himself a Pom or a Brit. Simply because he isn't - regardless to how long he's been here.

I adore NZ, I'm married to one of it's citizens and I really can't wait to get out there and get my teeth into our new life. However, I will consider myself to be a Pom/English person/Brit in a foreign country, and I have to admit, I think classing myself as a Kiwi at such an early stage would be a touch sycophantic.

None of the above comments are meant to provoke - I'm just interested in your opinions on this subject.

Diny

[Moorf]

I agree Diny - I shall always class myself as British even if we had NZ Citizenship. I shall always be a foreigner in NZ but am trying hard to integrate with regards to learning about the culture, history and traditions etc.

I'd find it v. strange for someone non-British to come to the UK and suddenly call themselves British (in fact, it used to wind me up...) so why should I feel any differently here!

I know of some people who are keen to shed their British association - but I personally am proud to be British although recent world events might make my proud declaration more of a whisper.

Good thread - can't wait to see some of the other replies!

Moorf

[shagen]

Interesting post Diny,

As Malaysians we cannot hold to passports i.e. our government does not recognise dual citizenship. In order to be Kiwi, we will have to give up our Malaysian passports. As for my wife and I, I think we will be foremost Malaysians living in New Zeland and I can't come to call ourselves a Kiwi.

The way I look at it, our kids could very much be a "Kiwi" even if they continue to carry Malaysian passports. The reason I say this is becasue they will be emigrating at a very young age (6 and 3). Much of their growing up will be in a Kiwi setting and they will be used to the Kiwi culture even if we practiced another culture at home.

Like it or not, outside influence on a child is very strong especially at a tender age of 6 or 3! They will be moulded to how an average Kiwi child shodul be from school, peers etc. I won't be surprised at all if they were to speak English with a Kiwi accent in a few years.

If we do not take up NZ citizenship in 5 years after we get our PR, our kids will be the most affected I think, as they will still be Malaysian citizens but will not be able to call Malaysia their home simply because they won't be able to relate to Malaysia. As it is, since they lived overseas for some time, they can't speak the Malay language which is an important basic requirement for being a Malaysian.

I wonder how other Asians feel about this.

[veronica]

Got to agree with Moorf and Diny. My own feeling is that to be a KIWI you really have to grow up here, thats when most of the formative stuff happens. Having said that I would be really proud to have a NZ passport as well.

[Junnifer USA]

I must be confused... Such a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway. Did the law pass requiring 5 yrs PR before you can apply for citizenship? I thought it was still pending?

Please, someone, set me straight here!
Thanks
Jen

[veronica]

No I understand it is still in the proposed stage.

[Diny]

Jen -

I understand it came into effect a few days ago - from Jan 1st. There's every possibility I'm mistaken though.

Veronica -

I agree, I think the young kids that are emigrating to NZ now will consider themselves as Kiwi's as they get older having spent their formative years there.

Holding dual nationality (eventually) would make some things alot easier, but I will still class myself as a British person who holds a 2nd passport.

Diny

[jhsay]

I believe that you can only be a Kiwi if you THINK, SPEAK and DO the Kiwi way. I don't think I'll ever be that person bec. I have lived all my 33 yrs in the Philippines. Our law recently allowed dual citizenship thus allowing me to hold 2 passports. I'll definitely hold on to my Philippine passport even if I become a NZ citizen. For my kids, they could become Kiwis later on but we'll try our very best to instill in them their roots.

- Jinkee

[Iain & Liz]

i think that if you were granted your PR in dec you only have to wait 3 years and not 5
but i agree that we will always be british and also in the eyes of kiwis always british how ever long we are here

[Diny]

I'm abit confused as to whether it's 3 years or 5. It doesn't really matter anyway, getting dual nationality is something I may consider when the time comes. I won't be ticking off the months on my calendar waiting to apply.

Quote:

also in the eyes of kiwis always british how ever long we are here

Ain't that a fact. To PB's dad I may well be his daughter in law, the mother of his 2 half Kiwi grandsons - but I'll always be a 'bloody Pom'.

(excuse the language).

Diny

[Radders]

I will always be English, and my wife (who has UK citizenship) will always be a Kiwi.
The problem arises when my future kids have to decide which country they are going to play rugby for!!!

[Danpoll]

I would evoke my British passport to any nation. My dream in this life is that when I grow old and die that I will die as a citenzen of any other country other than this one. Preffarrably canada but hey ho cant have evreything. I see my life in NZ for the first five years as an immigrant or legal alien as the americans would say. Not that my motivation for emigrating is anti Uk agenda.


Dan

[Dave & Sandra]

I would always think of myself as being British - I'm not really bothered about applying for citizenship either. There is a friend here who has been here 30 years and he still renews his British passport every 10 years and has never applied for citizenship although his wife is a Kiwi. He is still, as are a lot of people we meet around here, classed as a Pom.

Sandra

PS I also asked Dave the question and his reply was 'atheist' :laugh Strangely enough he doesn't consider himself to be a citizen of anywhere, just a 'world citizen'

[Nicola]

What an excellent thread and thank you to all that have contributed. It has been a real eye opener reading it.

I was brought up on the English side of the Scottish border and I have never felt British. I do not feel any negative feelings about living here or about the country. I just do not have any strong nationalistic feelings. I do not feel proud to stand up and say I am British. Usually I say I am Scottish, it can make life a little easier when travelling abroad.

We as a family want to move to live in a different country and become part of that different country. If and when we actually get there we want to live with Kiwis and become part of their society. IMHO if I wanted to live with British people and be British I would live here. This is purely how I feel about my life. This is in no way meant as a cristism of anyone else, just a feeble attempt to explain why I want to become a Kiwi. I also understand that I will always be referred to as a Pom and will not be accepted as a Kiwi. I also accept that things change and our opinion may be totally different when we actually get there.

Nic

[heimatseeker]

That's a complex question - great thread :clap

I'm a German citizen who at the age of 26 moved to the US. I lived there for 8 years as a permanent resident, and since November I'm here in NZ, going for residency as well.

When I first moved to the States I thought I might apply for citizenship once I'm eligible (the waiting period is also 5 years). When that time came however, I didn't want to do that any more, and not only because GWB had been elected president. It may sound strange, but the longer I lived abroad, the more I felt connected to my home country, and the more aware I became of where I was from. This probably had partially to do with the "grass is greener" effect of seing that there were a lot of good things in Germany that I hadn't appreciated while I was there, but also with the realization that you can't shake your orgin (someone in the thread mentioned "formative years" - yep!). Like many of you said that you'll always be British, I feel the same way about always being German.

At the same time, the longer I lived in the US the more I did *also* feel American. I didn't have the citizenship but America was where I lived and worked and payed taxes and got involved in the community, etc., and when someone asked, "where are you from", I'd say, "San Francisco", and if they kept asking, I'd say I'm a German-American.

I'm too new in NZ to feel that same connectedness; obviously that's something that develops over time. But I think it's very possible (and healthy) to feel connected to and a real part of more than one country. I see it as something that enriches you and not as a competition. And yes, where you grew up will probably always be *the* home country, no matter what.

(Luckily, they don't play much rugby in Germany so it's easy for me to not take sides :nice1 )

cheers,
sibylle

[foolsgold99]

Very good thread, for me you can use a sports test.

Imagine a situation where NZ are playing your "birth" country in the world cup final of Rugby/Soccer/Cricket/Whatever. You're watching the game, who do you want to win ? Be honest.

I work with a English guy just now, that's been living in Scotland for a while, he really wants to be scottish, but he never quite gets it right. Where you live your formative years defines your nationailty to a large degree, if your not in NZ by 12, you'll never be a really Kiwi.

i'll take citizenship, but that will not make me a kiwi

[Soon2baKiwi]

The last two threads are spot on I think. I don't feel Irish until I leave the country so I have no idea how I'll feel about being a 'Kiwi' until I'm away for a good long time. I think it's just easier to have dual nationality for travel reasons. My Kiwi hubby has NZ/Dutch nationality so is in Europe on his Dutch passport - no hassle with visas etc.

On the sporting issue, Ireland are playing in NZ in 2006. I know from past experience that I end up not wanting either of them to lose and Mike is the same - he wants the ABs to do well but he also wants to see Ireland doing well. I think we're definitely dual aspect people :?

[Diny]

I'm glad I started this thread, there's some excellent replies.

I think it all boils down to the length of time we spend in a country in our formative years (well it does for me anyway). Like I mentioned above, PB has lived out of NZ longer than he lived there but he would never class himself as anything other than a Kiwi. I lived in Australia for a number of years and the thought (or the feeling) of ever being an Aussie never crossed my mind (God forbid !!).

I'm sure our kids will eventually class themselves as Kiwis as they are still very young. I guess it will be no time at all until they pick up the accent and will simply merge into things with great ease. In fact, I bet when our youngest is grown up, if somebody asks him what he remembers about living in England he'll say 'not much' as his memories will naturally fade.

I'm sure all of us will fully embrace our new lives in NZ and will adapt to the Kiwi way of life as easily as our young ones.

One of the reasons I started this thread is because - having travelled a fair bit - I have realised that the British come in for alot of 'stick'. Oh yeah, most of it is good natured banter, traditional leg pulling and the usual light hearted discussions that will always exisit between people from different nations. However, there are still a few of our antipodean friends who will write us off because we come from the northern hemisphere. I'm sure alot of people will argue that this is not the case, but believe me, I speak from experience. Thankfully these 'anti Pom' attitudes are few and far between.

But - whether it be light hearted banter or deep set resentment that fuels a Kiwi's attitude towards the Poms, for anybody emigrating to NZ once they have entered adulthood, regardless to what label you stick on yourself, you'll never be classed as a Kiwi by the Kiwis.

It's true that where we actually grew up will always be the place we class as home. No matter where I've been in the world, whether it's thousands of miles away or just in the next village, I have always classed the farm where I was born and brought up as home - and I still do.

Diny

[kiwidebs]

Really good thread Diny. I've enjoyed reading all the responses. My story is that I am a Kiwi (born and bred) and came to England for my big OE (Kiwi rite of passage - stands for Overseas Experience and just means leaving home to see the big wide world for a while), met hubby and eight years on am still here. I became a naturalised Brit last year BUT would never consider myself British. Bear in mind four, five and six generations ago my ancestors left Scotland and England to forge a better life for themselves in New Zealand so this is my ancient heritage too! However, at heart I am a Kiwi and damn proud of it! I truly can't see my husband ever considering himself anything other than English - and from a sporting point of view, we will always support different teams in an England v All Black rugby match!!
I do think it has alot to do with where you spent your formative years. However, I think every country has alot to gain from embracing the experiences of those that choose to immigrate and if these immigrants feel Kiwi enough to call themselves Kiwis then good on them!

Debs (Kiwi till I die :nice1 )

[Beach Kiwi]

I've been in New Zealand since 1963, as you may already know, was born in England in 1960 (now you know my real age :mrgreen: ), lived there for one whole year, then two in Germany (due to my father being in the RAF), then emigrated to NZ when I turned three.

I have both a New Zealand and a British passport, although both have now expired! Decided to get official residency only about 15 years ago, so as to get a Kiwi passport.

Although I'm 99% Kiwi in most ways, I still value the fact that I'm a Brit by birth, even if I don't remember anything about it! ;)

[Rimbo]

Nice One Diny :nice1
Here's a daft one.
I'm English but always consider myself a Brit. Ask a Scot, a Welsh man or an Irish (northern) man if they consider themselves a Brit! The answer will almost certainly be, "no, I'm a Scot" and so on.
Us English dont seem to be a proud nation as others are. Having said that i think we'll all agree that even when we adopt another culture, we'll remain Brits.
I agree with the thought that it depends where you spent your formative years. My mum was German by birth and lived there until she met my Dad, so she's been Britsh since 1962. I will ask her what nationality she feels. I guess the answer will surprisingly be British as she had to give up her culture, language etc.

John

[shagen]

Sorry if this sounds silly, but assuming you were on holiday in a nice place somewhere, and someone comes to you and asks you where you are from? And you did not have the option to say you were originally from this place and now you are in this place, but just one place.

What would your answer be?

Would you say you are from New Zealand or from your home country?

Coz people usually kind of make up what you are made of from where you come from. Call it generalisation but until someone gets to know you, you are most of the time generalised.

Cheers,
Shagen

[Dave & Sandra]

I think Shagen has summed it up very well and hit the nail on the head. If you were somewhere else on holiday where would you say you were from.

[Moorf]

"I'm originally from Britain but now live in New Zealand."

[Rimbo]

If they asked where are you from?
My answer would be Wigan, North West England.
But if they aked where i lived, I would tell that also.
But i get what you mean.

John

[RoadRunner]

What a great thread and so many interesting replies.

I have a different view point than most of the other posts. The US truly is a melting pot of so many different immigrants from diverse cultures/countries. I don't believe that someone has to be born in the US to be considered an "American." I have known and worked with many people from other countries who held either green cards or visas (and even some who eventually became citizens). I believe Heimatseeker commented on how he felt like an "American" after living here only a few years. People who work hard and try to adopt the language, culture and customs are usually accepted and integrated. [Note: I realize this has changed in the last couple of years but I am speaking about what I experienced for most of my life.]

So, for that reason, I believe that once I become a NZ citizen, I will consider myself a Kiwi. By that point, I will have been working and paying taxes, I will have adopted the language and customs (although I'll probably never lose this horrid american accent - sigh). Citizenship will give me the right to vote and participate in local elections and travel the world as a New Zealander. And, yes, I will travel on the NZ passport, not the US one. If asked, I would say I am from NZ (of course, even now I am embarrassed to travel abroad as an American; I can't even claim to be from a blue state, only a blue county). :oops:

I am curious if other Americans out there feel as I do??

One final thought - I am surprised that Kiwis would not consider new cititzens (especially Brits!!) to be Kiwis after so many years. I thought I read that 1/4 of the people living in NZ today were born elsewhere. Seems like NZ is becoming the melting pot that the US used to be.

[cloudboy99]

I agree, RoadRunner. In the US there are few, if any, true Yanks. Aside from the native indigenous peoples, most "Americans" hail from somewhere else within the past 250 years or so. I myself am a product of Germany (mother and grandmother both native born) and can even trace back to King James as a very great uncle.

I consider myself a US Citizen in the fact I served in the Armed Forces (Navy), pay my taxes, and own a detatched house. However I find that the majority of the citizens of the US are of differing opinions than myself (blue state, can you tell?) To me, being a citizen no only means the land you hail from, but a generalization of your thoughts, beliefs, and abilities. One can assume that, being a US Citizen, that I have a command of the English language and am better off financially than the populus of most nations.

Like RoadRunner, I have full intentions of waiting my five years and applying for NZ citizenship. I will still retain my US Passport/Citizenship for the retirement benefits, but would consider myself a NZ citizen. Of course I have to figure out how to play this strange new game called "rugby".

PS: Notice how I con't consider myself an American as I'm pretty sure there is more than the USA located in North/South America. Technically speaking, if you are from Peru, you are an American.

[ruthyroo]

Going to be controversial here (apologies in advance but it's something that bugs me) - by 'British' do we actually mean 'English'? As opposed to Scottish / Irish / Welsh?
Diny mentioned that the 'British come in for a lot of stick' abroad - well TBH in my experience it's the English that come in for the stick here in NZ (and elsewhere). Anyone who is Scottish / Welsh / Irish tends to be welcomed with open arms (and large amounts of whisky / whiskey) and regaled with stories of ancestors who sailed out of Glasgow or Belfast, and how they would love to visit the countries that their distant forebears came from etc etc. But no one as yet has regaled me with pride about their English ancestry. And I fear that the whinging pom stereotype tends to be directed at English people.

To answer the original Q, I am Scottish, I will remain Scottish even if we stay here for 50 years. But if we have kids here and they grow up in NZ I would expect them to be Kiwis.

[ukiwibird]

I've lived in UK for 30 years now, but I wouldn't get dual UK citizenship. I'm proud to be a Kiwi, my sons have dual UK- NZ citizenship which comes in very handy for them. Regards Trudy

[MikeandCez]

Interesting!!
We as a family intend to emmigrate to NZ this year and will be very proud of our new home. However I could never class myself as anything other than English. I will always support England?Britain at any sporting event and I am proud to say I'm English. That's not to say that I love everything about the English/British lifestyle-I don't and perhaps that's one of the reasons for choosing to leave but I could never consider myself to be anything else.
My kids may well decide that because most of their formative years have been in NZ that they will identify as a Kiwi and I hope in many ways that they do. But deep down i really believe that your country of origin (providing you spent your formative years there) will always be regarded as HOME.
God I'll miss a decent pint!!!

[heimatseeker]

So, for that reason, I believe that once I become a NZ citizen, I will consider myself a Kiwi. By that point, I will have been working and paying taxes, I will have adopted the language and customs (although I'll probably never lose this horrid american accent - sigh).

Oh yeah, accents....they will always give us non-natives away :smile

People would ask me, "where are you from", and when I'd answer, "San Francisco", the next question was often "oh - but I thought I detected a slight accent?", which would of course lead to the old "well, *originally* I'm from blabla....".

I think the fact that you are a citizen of a (or even two) countries is a big factor, but the question of "where are you from" is more complex than that and for many people living in a country other than where they grew up, it can't be answered in one word. That's a good thing! If anything, it makes your story interesting. :mrgreen:

P.S. Roadrunner, I'm a "she" :P

[captainxmas]

Heimat, what a fantastic experience website - recommended reading to all forumers.

Must have been a great trip and in true Maori style you will always know which boat you arrived on!!! :nice1

Keep enjoying it guys. :clap


As for the main topic, I guess we'll always be British but at least I won't be picked on for being a Brummie so much!

Any way, as I've said before I'm quite looking forward to feeling like a stranger in a country I wasn't born in. :yes

[RoadRunner]

Hi Heimatseeker,

"I'm a "she""
Many apolgoies!! :oops:

If and when I get to Wellington, I owe you a beer (or glass of wine!) ;)

[mechidna]

Ok, well now I have to get in on this.

I was born and raised in the US. Never been anywhere until recently and that was as far as Mexico. Cancun is pretty fun....

Here's the way I see it. The way the world is today, I don't know if I would want to admit being from the US. We are really not on many country's top 10 list. I would be almost afraid to tell someone that I'm an American. That is pitiful, isn't it? Sorry if I offended and of the US people here, but that's my opinion.

I was also thinking the other day about heritage. America is the melting pot, there's no doubt there. But this melting pot has a way of creating heritage-less people. There are so many people here from different cultures that don't have any cultural identity. I know I don't. I'm French and Danish (and Cherokee, but most people are) and I have no ties to any of those cultures. That's really sad.

I think I'm done for now.

mechidna

[heimatseeker]

Heimat, what a fantastic experience website - recommended reading to all forumers.

Must have been a great trip and in true Maori style you will always know which boat you arrived on!!! :nice1

Thank you. :smile Yep, arriving by ship seemed made it seem more like "real" emigration. Lots of time for letting go and happy anticipation, and best - no jetlag! :nice1

Hi Heimatseeker,
"I'm a "she""
Many apolgoies!! :oops:


No worries, mate! :mrgreen: (How's that for a new German-Amercian-Wannabekiwi?) ;)

[Wannaway]

Good question. There was something in the media recently about what was a kiwi? and I think the answer was a NZ born of British heritage.

I am British and will retain my British passport although I think Lee feels the opposite. I will always speak the same way I hope. I am certainly not going to try to speak with a NZ twang. I am sure my kids will grow up speaking like kiwis and to most people will seem to be Kiwis but to me they will always be British. The way I look at it is 'if I died were would I want to be buried' or ' if hubby died :wah where would I want to go (and spend my huge inheritance :nice1 !)? At present the answers are UK. If /when they change then perhaps I will not feel so British.

Sorry to bring a morbid tone to things.
Nicky

[sarahw]

Hi Diny,

Great post! and great thread!! This one really got me thinking. I guess that I'll always be British and see myself as a Brit (Northern lass at heart even though I've spent 25 of my 32 years in the South) but I think that as time goes on I may think of myself as British but be more of a New Zealander in my ways and going back to Britain may end up being a complete shocker to me - espeically (if it happens) that we end up living in NZ for longer than we did in the UK - but that's a very long way off :laugh

I guess I will never see myself as Kiwi but any kids we have over here I'll probably classify as such (even though Ian says they're going to get Cockney lessons!) :roll:

[Diny]

Nicky

A very valid comment - not morbid at all. I have it written in my will that wherever I am in the world when I meet my Waterloo, I am to be cremated and then my ashes taken home to our family farm where I was born and grew up.

It's that 'formative years' thing again isn't it.

Diny

[zsj]

Yep, formative years.

I was born and grew up in South East Asia, sent to boarding school when I was 10 in the UK. I can remember feeling so foreign yet surrounded by people who looked like me! Went out to Asia every holiday, worked overseas, but the last 6 years (since I met my husband who is by the way an American living in UK who came here by way of a 7 year stint in Kenya!) I have spent in SW England. I still don't call it home or feel strongly British. My family live overseas, scattered.

I have come to the conclusion that home for me is where my busband and my 2 young children are. And that will be in Feb, NZ. But as for where I am from..I sound English so will stick with that.

As someone else said, that one word to sum up who you are and what your belief system is - British, American, German, Singaporean, New Zealander etc. It is no longer enough - there are a vast number of people who truly are 'citizens of the world'.

[Diny]

Citizen of the world ..... that has a nice ring to it don't you think.

Diny

[deebat]

I also agree with Cap'n Xmas -- Heimatseeker's website is AWESOME. In fact, it's AUSGEZEICHNET! (It's also good for testing deebat's high-school German proficiency.)

Vielen Dank, Sibylle!

-Dan

[jo b]

Diny,


simple answer from me..............



Once a WIGANER ALWAYS A WIGANER!!!
You take take the girl out of Wigan but you can't take Wigan out of the girl :laugh


Jo

[foolsgold99]

heimatseeker,

I had a look at your website, very imformative. They don't tip in NZ ? Excellent (best Monty Burns voice).

Only question is have is, what's with the ship ? Why not fly ?

[heimatseeker]

:angel Thanks guys! I started the travlelog for friends and family (thus the two languages) but I'm glad it's useful to others, too.

heimatseeker,
Only question is have is, what's with the ship ? Why not fly ?

We stumbled upon a story on the internet from someone who did a "freighter cruise" and were fascinated. At that point we had *just* decided to do this crazy thing of moving to NZ without having been there before, so we thought we might as well use a crazy way to get there. :P It turned out to be ideal for many reasons - for one, you need to be very flexible with those trips because schedules *will* change, and how can you be that unless you are between jobs, apartments (and countries)? Also, it made the process of leaving and getting there and arriving slower, and more conscious, not to mention fun. :nice1

[chuchi]

We may have to adopt the Kiwi way of life but I know deep down I will always be a Filipino. And with that, I am and will always be proud to be one. Although our country is facing great financial and political problems, we still love this country and I am hoping and praying that one day we may overcome these challenges.

We will be applying for NZ citizenship after five years, mainly because of the perks of having a NZ passport. We are looking forward to the day when we will be able to travel to US, Canada, UK, Australia without needing a visa. Because of some Filipinos travelling abroad as tourists ending up as illegal immigrants in different countries, I'm afraid we have to apply for visas even for an honest-to-goodness vacation.

Our kids (although we have none yet, maybe in a couple of years) will definitely think of themselves as Kiwis. They will speak with the Kiwi twang and will have the Kiwi sense of humor but we will make sure that they know the country where their parents came from.

[Wooba]

I find it can depend on where you are.. People ask me all the time where I'm from and often guess (they are almost always wrong).. although I consider myself a Canadian, I always say I'm English because I know that's what they want to know..
When I'm in the UK people think I'm American.. I usually don't tell people I'm English though, just say I'm Canadian and leave it at that.. took me a good 12+ years before I started to think I'm a Canadian first, a Brit second.. If I ever make it to NZ, if anyone asks I'll say I'm Canadian and hopefully one day I'll be able to say I'm a New Zealander..

[malou]

You are right chuchi.

We Filipinos have so many problems, politically and financially. But this doesn't mean that I will bow down my head and swallow my pride and tag myself as a kiwi. :no :no :no :no :no

Wherever I am, whoever ask me about my nationality, citizenship, origin. My answer will still be:

I AM A FILIPINO. (with my chin up)

I am not afraid if anyone makes a generalization out of ones origin. I know myself and I want my country to be proud of me.

[Pakeha Boy]

Right on Malou and good for you!

[Rizak]

http://rizak.info/PIX/necro.jpg

I call this thread back from the watery grave! :p

Has anyone found themselves picking up the NZ accent? It's a blessing and a curse that I am such a clever mimic. I can do a great number of accents and voices and it has come in handy on a number of occasions. I know that I'll be throwing it around like a local in no time at all. I just wonder about any others. I'm from a fairly homogeneous area that is known for having no discernable 'accent' at all.

[nippa&pippa]

I think I will be forever 'british' as need to be born in New Zealand or emigrate very young that they don't remember UK, to become kiwi.

I am speaking from my own experiences that i was born in Jamaica to british parents and move to england at same ages as my daughter moved to NZ, 9 months old. So like my daughter, i have no memories of jamaica, she will have no memory of UK. I have always call myself british rather than jamaican and got british citzenship. I will suspect that my both children will called themselves Kiwi.
On small note...i was nearly kiwi!!! my parents was offered two choice for overseas job, Jamaica or New Zealand! Well in 70's, jamaica was very fashionable to live than New Zealand, bob marley etc, warmer and easier for their parents to come and visit......they choose Jamaica!

[wiki]

Despite having an English Dad, three of my four siblings being born in the UK and having lived in England for the past 10 years, I'm 100% Kiwi.

I love the UK and I love the chance to live here - and yes, I can slip into a pretty convincing Lancashire accent if I have to - but that doesn't change my sense of national identitiy.

Kiwi born and bred, and even if I were to live in the UK until I was 101, I'd still have that sense of NZ-ness - it's engrained in my very bones.

My brother lived in England until he was 4, NZ until he was 23 and then Australia until he was 42... and has been back in NZ for two years.

I should ask him what he calls himself these days!

[Moorf]

Unfortunately I'm a total mimic, to the point where people think I'm taking the mick, I can't help it.

But can only do a recognisable Scottish accent if I'm drunk.....

But yis, apparently I have caught a little of the icksint...

[Carol]

I will always be British ..... first.

My 17 year old and 15 year old - despite having been here for 11 years are adamant they are British too - and are often referred to as Pommie kids.

However - I would like to think - the older they get - the more kiwi they will become.

My daughter - born here - is as kiwi as they come. And SO proud of it already!!!

She insists on having the "kiwi" tablemat every night at dinner - where the rest of us can fight it out between the tuataras and moreporks!
;)


Roots are roots.
(Please take that in the manner it was intended!)

[westies]

No changing the fact for me, I am British, even if I choose to become a NZ citizen, I will still be British, can't change my roots. Kids however I'm sure because they are so young will grow up being kiwi's because they won't know anything else, makes absolutely no difference to us, after all you can be whatever you want to be these days!

[marcia]

I don't want a label! :p

I just want to be accepted as 'Marcia', take me or leave me!!

No matter how hard you try to be a 'kiwi' the accent will always give you away - in ten years time I'm sure people will still be asking 'are you here on holiday!'

We will try to fit into the 'kiwi' way of life, adopt some of their different expressions, and words for things we are used to calling by other names - (eg - weed eaters for strimmers, jug - for kettle!) But for us older immigrants, in my opinion, we will never be kiwis.

As for the kids, well I'm sure they will soon get the accent, (Emerson already does a really good kiwi rendition of the warehouse song!) they will probably always be the 'pommie kids' in school, but as Diny said in one of her posts - their memories of the uk will fade (more so the younger they are) and they will look on New Zealand as their home!

Sports - well we aren't big sports fans anyway, apart from the motor racing, so if I had to choose between the brits and the all blacks I'd probably go for the all blacks just cos i love watching them do the Haka!

The saying goes 'home is where the heart is' - we refer to 'our home' as being where our little family group is, but in my heart Huddersfield will always be home! :)

[Moorf]

We'll never be proper Kiwi's, as the locals say, only 2nd generation are counted as Kiwi's / locals round these parts! I'm actually quite proud to be British, shame I can't find too many decent words about the place recently tho....

[Diny]

We have an 'across the scale' mix in this family.

I'm British

Kids are half and half

Mark is a Kiwi

He's very proud of his nationality, I'm very proud of mine, kids are proud/lucky to be both.

Coming up for 2 years down the line I have to correct myself regarding the kids slowly forgetting their UK memories. Not a chance, they're all very 'real' to them.

We just feel lucky to have the choice of UK & NZ.

As a foot note though - I shall never be a Kiwi, and neither will I ever want to be. Same goes for OH, he's lived in the UK for almost longer than he lived in NZ but would never class himself as British - neither would he want to.

Diny

[Sam B]

Well I hope my kids feel like Kiwis soon, as they seem to have to sing a song at school every day called "Kiwi kids are the best"! which can't be good for their self esteem! Can you imagine kids in a multi-cultural British school singing "British kids are the best"??

If NZ is anything like Cornwall, then you'd have to be able to prove that your family dates back generations of Cornish folk, and woe betide you if you marry someone from "up-country". I once heard 2 Cornish women chatting at the end of a funeral for one of the most Cornish men I'd ever met, who had never left his village. He lived in Gorran Haven, 2 miles down the coast from Mevagissey. 1 woman said to the other "Course he wasn't really a Gorran man you know?" the other one said "That's right, his family moved over from Meva when he was a baby"!

[speckythecky]

Not a kiwi, never a kiwi but would like to be accepted as 'an Englishman in Auckland'.

I would like to be accepted into the community better than we brits welcome other cultures.

[nippa&pippa]

Other things you should think of is which country do you think your children will complete for if they ever reach olympic games? NZ, UK or USA etc, even they are kiwi or not kiwi.

With one jamaican/british (me), three british (my husband, two eldest children) and one soon-to-be kiwi baby, multi-national :laugh that mean our children can complete for either jamaica, GB or New Zealand? I think they will pick New Zealand....:roll

[Diny]

Well I hope my kids feel like Kiwis soon, as they seem to have to sing a song at school every day called "Kiwi kids are the best"! which can't be good for their self esteem! Can you imagine kids in a multi-cultural British school singing "British kids are the best"??

"!


OMG !!!! My kids have to sing that song too - and they find it really 'creepy' (the words of my eldest son).

In fact he said that he could NEVER imagine kids from other countries singing it ........... how about ......

Spanish kids are the best .....

French kids are the best .....

Jamacan kids are the best ...... etc etc etc

Now I know this bit will make the flak fly, these are NOT my words ...... but at a school concert last year this very song was sung. A Canadian parent sitting next to me whispered ........"am I the only one who finds this wrong? Why am I getting visions of the Hitler Youth?"

Diny

[wilson182]

After living in the UK, where it is becoming increasingly unPC to be proud to be British, I find the fact that Kiwi's are proud to be Kiwi's quite refreshing.:)

[Diny]

After living in the UK, where it is becoming increasingly unPC to be proud to be British, I find the fact that Kiwi's are proud to be Kiwi's quite refreshing.:)

Absolutely - national pride is a wonderful thing, but actually having a school song that proclaims 'Kiwi kids are the best' - I find that abit odd, especially when there's so many 'multi cultural' kids at school.

Maybe it would be better to proclaim 'kids are the best' - I'd whole heartedly agree with that sentiment.

Diny

[able]

Maybe it would be better to proclaim 'kids are the best' - I'd whole heartedly agree with that sentiment.

An agreeable sentiment perhaps, but it's ageist and so would now be illegal in the UK. :exit

[Carol]

I think these are the lyrics you are thinking about...


Kiwi Kids (‘r rockin’ it)
©2003 D. A. Clark & J. Marriott

Now the game begins
As the spotlight beams upon us you can see us centre stage
We’re your kids, your hope. We’re the heros of the future
We’re the new, unwritten page
The time has come around at last for us to show the world that…


Chorus
Kiwi kids are rockin’ it, rockin’ it
Kiwi kids are tops
Kiwi kids are living it, living it
Look what we’ve got
Kids can do anything, anything
Give it a try
Kiwi kids are rockin’ it, rockin’ it
Just watch us fly!


Now the game begins
You can see us from the sidelines, we are in the winning team
We’re the best there is, we can take it to the limit
We can live our wildest dreams!
The time has come around at last for us to show the world that…

Chorus

I have to say - the passion that you see this sung with is fab!
Similar to the NZ National Anthem when it is sung in school - a whole lot of pride going on.
:yes

[mish&al]

Hi Diny,

I am new, my name is Michelle.:)

I think you will always be what you are. (make sense??!!)

I am also married to a kiwi, and he has been in Australia for 20 years, but still considers himself a kiwi, and proudly still holds a Nz passport (and accent!).

I always would be an Aussie no matter what my citizenship.:yes

Michelle..

[Moorf]

After living in the UK, where it is becoming increasingly unPC to be proud to be British, I find the fact that Kiwi's are proud to be Kiwi's quite refreshing.:)

Absolutely, at least they're singing it in English or Maori, too.... in the UK you'd probably have to learn it in Urdu, Arabic and Polish so as to "involve" children from other countries.... as far as I am concerned if you're in the UK people who live there are allowed to be proud - how do you tell a kid that yes, you can be proud to be Kiwi/British but you can't go around shouting about it? Hitler youth? :confused:

So now it's wrong to be proud of your nationality in your own country? Where does this all stop? :no I wish patriotism was still alive and kicking and that flying the flag for your country, or country of adoption or whatever the situ wasn't seen as sticking your fingers up at anothers...

[willsken]

I think these are the lyrics you are thinking about...


Kiwi Kids (‘r rockin’ it)
©2003 D. A. Clark & J. Marriott

Now the game begins
As the spotlight beams upon us you can see us centre stage
We’re your kids, your hope. We’re the heros of the future
We’re the new, unwritten page
The time has come around at last for us to show the world that…


Chorus
Kiwi kids are rockin’ it, rockin’ it
Kiwi kids are tops
Kiwi kids are living it, living it
Look what we’ve got
Kids can do anything, anything
Give it a try
Kiwi kids are rockin’ it, rockin’ it
Just watch us fly!


Now the game begins
You can see us from the sidelines, we are in the winning team
We’re the best there is, we can take it to the limit
We can live our wildest dreams!
The time has come around at last for us to show the world that…

Chorus

I have to say - the passion that you see this sung with is fab!
Similar to the NZ National Anthem when it is sung in school - a whole lot of pride going on.
:yes


I don't think there is anything wrong with the song. They sing the song about Kiwi kids in Kiwi schools..... what's the problem? :confused:

[jubjub]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the song. They sing the song about Kiwi kids in Kiwi schools..... what's the problem? :confused:

Can't say I see a major problem with it either, its more a song about children than an example of rampant patriotism.

Mind you my kid is a kiwi....

It will be interesting to see how he feels when he is older and understands that he has pommy parents, but he is a kiwi by birth.

[Carol]

It will be interesting to see how he feels when he is older and understands that he has pommy parents, but he is a kiwi by birth.



A mudblood! :laugh :exit

[jubjub]

A mudblood! :laugh :exit

:laugh

[Sam B]

It's cool to be proud of your country, but I agree with Diny's son - it's a creepy song! They also have to sing a song with the chorus "my dad loves rugby". I would prefer "my dad loves getting mummy's dinner on the table for 6pm" Ha ha.

[Carol]

Love this one.....


U.N. Hapu
© 1997 D.A.Clark
Now if you met my classmates
You’d see just what I mean
There are kids from every place on Earth
The strangest mix you’ve seen
We have an institution that works just like a dream
The Kiwi Room Two U.N. Hapu
Mediation team
Wherever there’s a crisis, no matter what the scale
You’ll need conflict resolution
To get peace talks on the rails
Before things all turn crazy, before it gets extreme
Call the Kiwi Room Two U.N. Hapu Mediation Team
When somewhere on the planet
There’s rancour or revolt
We call a special sitting
So the members can consult
The delegates assemble
To analyse the news
And try to reach consensus
From a dozen different views
There’s Choeun from Cambodia
And Li Bing from Taiwan
And Kifle from Somalia
And Michelle from Gabon
A dozen Polynesian kids
A couple from Kowloon
And I’m from Porirua
And my sister’s from the moon
Now some folk need to travel
To find the world is round
And some folk never venture
To the other side of town
But we don’t need to wander
To look for greener grass
‘Cause our United Nations is
Convening in my class





And my sister's from the moon!!! :laugh Great!

[marcia]

OMG Carol they don't sing that one in school do they????????????????:uhoh

[veronica]

think that you have to take it that the kids singing these songs are kids living in Nz rather than kids who are born to nzers. and the assumption is that these kids are here to stay regardless of their ethnic origins. Not a lot different to the kids in the states who sing the national anthem at school.

Anyone one know what the result would be if some of the kids in Britain today refused to sing or acknowlege the national anthem.