[sidabrine]

Seems like there's a good opportunity to improve the average IQ in both, NZ and OZ, presenting itself right now. Had a chat with an employer in Sydney, things look quite positive at this stage. The problem is that I've never been to Sydney. So the question is, would I like it more than Auckland?

Having lived in Auckland for a year, I still feel that my heart is not warming up for this city. I also lived in Singapore and although I liked some things, other things were driving me mad. So I'd like to ask, if someone could advise me how Sydney compares to Auckland and Singapore?

Things I like about Auckland:
- beaches nearby
- bush walks nearby
- good worklife balance
- cultural diversity

Things I don't like about Auckland:
- traffic
- bad public transport
- boy racers
- poor quality expensive housing
- lots of rainy days
- extremely slow and expensive broadband
- lack of feeling safe at nights
- no real "city life"
- difficult / expensive to travel anywhere outside of NZ
- mortgage interest rates

Things I liked about Singapore:
- good public transport
- good / cheap food
- tropical humid climate
- easy / cheap to travel to many places
- cultural diversity

Things I didn't like about Singapore:
- too urban, packed with people
- not much to do, but shop
- noisy construction sites everywhere
- no worklife balance
- have to get out of the country, if you want to get out of the city
- nanny government

I know that it is impossible for anyone to guess how I'd like Sydney, but based on these things listed, could you give some sort of indication, if its more likely to get more things that I like than that I don't like in Sydney or not at all?

[Lupin]

What about Brisbane?

[Oregonkiwi]

It's a short flight from Auckland to Sydney, why not just go and take a look for yourself?

[Mike & Nicola]

Hello, do i know you ;) ?

Well I'm not particulary taken with Oz if I'm honest. But Sydney was definitely my favourite city! Least bogunified by a mile!

Positives of Sydney over Auckland?
Less rain, warmer climate (probably the nicest IMO in Oz)
Some nice beaches, but beware the ankle (and all over body :D ) biters when surfing.
I liken it to London with sun, so you get the good and bad that has to offer.

Think you'll find most of the negatives of Auckland over in Sydney too. House prices are especially crazy over there!

The biggest draw back would be living with Australians :D

Definitely pop over the ditch though and take a look yourself! Let me know how you get on.

Mike

[phatsharpie]

I thought Sydney was breathtakingly beautiful. However it's not going to be much better than Auckland traffic-wise. Nor would I say public transportation is better. It's a large city and spread out. I think it's like Auckland on steroids. Furthermore housing is expensive, but you'll probably make better wage so that would offset somewhat.

In any case, the best way to find out is to see for yourself. It's a city worth visiting.

-B

[Aussie Pom]

I only visited Auckland briefly and have never "lived" in Sydney only holidayed but I would say they are quite similar in feel... the harbours etc. You would get more "scenic" diversity closer to Auckland, it would take longer to get to the Blue Mountains than the hills around Auckland.
Sydney's traffic is heavy but the public transport is varied, they do have the ferries, trains and buses and they run quite efficiently I believe. There is more than one road which is what I have been led to believe Auckland is working on, (that might be a slight exaggeration:laugh ).
As to Lupin 77's comment about Brisbane, they are in the grip of a horrific water problem in QLD which probably won't improve anytime soon, so you might want to check into that if you do consider going north.
I think the others are right too in that you might need to take a look, but ultimately cities all have similar city problems. If I had to pick a different Aussie city to live in it would be Melbourne or Hobart, but Sydney would be great for a break any way.
Gina.

[sidabrine]

Does phatsharpie think that Auckland is a beautiful city? Because tastes differ, you know... :)

Nobody mentioned anything about possibilities to get out of Sydney to nature. I understand that there are lots of harbours and beaches, but are they Mission Bay style (with non-stop traffic and packed)? How difficult is it to get to Blue Mountains?

[sidabrine]

Thanks Aussie Pom for your insights about nature, harbours and hills.

"Auckland on steroids" sounds like a horror scenario to me, if we're talking about CBD.

I'd hope that there'd be more action in the "villages" in Sydney, as in Auckland we have only Parnell and Ponsonby...

Do people mostly live in the city or suburbs in Sydney? Or should I ask does anyone live in the city in Sydney?

[phatsharpie]

I do think Auckland is beautiful. And when I stated that Sydney is like "Auckland on steroids" I meant that the two cities are very similiar in appearance and feel, but Sydney is just much bigger.

You know, from the issues you've described, I would look at moving to Melbourne. It's a larger city than Auckland, with many different suburbs - each with its own character. It has good public transportation (at least to the inner suburbs), with trains, trams, and busses. The beach and nature are all close by and readily accessible. I think it's the most livable city in Australia.

-B

[KerryS]

I've lived in both and I personally prefer Auckland. It's friendlier, easier to get around and nicer looking. When you're away from the harbour in Sydney it is one ugly city! Get stuck around North Sydney and you could be anywhere in any large city.
But, positives are the fabulous weather - much warmer and drier than Auckland. (Although I didn't enjoy the 35+ summer much.) The shopping is fantastic - far more choice and variety. I go over a couple of times a year and splurge in the department stores there. The beaches are great, with some amazing surfing locations - but there are more jellies and sharks than you have to contend with around Auckland.
To answer your Mission Bay query - Bondi, Coogee and Manly are often packed and are right by busy strips of bars, cafes and shops in a similar set up. But there are loads of much smaller and quieter places - Bronte, Tamarama, Dee Why, for example, where there is just the beach and a small cafe and some great surf.
The Blue Mountains are a good hour or so out of the city. Driving along the Paramatta Road is a nightmare - always busy and more traffic lights than can possibly be necessary. There is a train - but public transport is expensive in comparison to NZ.
I loved living in Sydney - I'm definitely a city girl - but there was something about it that just wasn't right for me. I think the people are just a bit too 'try hard'. If I had to live anywhere in Australia I think it would be Melbourne - more chilled out, cool and relaxed.

[thepiesleys]

I thought Sydney was breathtakingly beautiful. However it's not going to be much better than Auckland traffic-wise. Nor would I say public transportation is better

Sorry but you are having a laugh here.

Public transport in Auckland is virtually non existent and what there is is very expensive. The public transport is so bad in Auckland that is has twice precluded me from meeting friends who have visited because of prohibitive cab fares.

Sydney is a heaven of fast, reliable and quick public transport. I went recently and used the buses, ferries and trains to travel all over the city. I was not phased by it and the price was more than reasonable.

[Milliemoo]

Public transport in Auckland is virtually non existent and what there is is very expensive.

Hi there,

Just had to chip in with my POV cause I completely disagree with you.

Auckland has buses, trains and ferries and offers very comprehensive service when you consider the size of greater Auckland and it's population in relation to that.

I can buy a $14 pass and use the ferries, buses and trains all day and into the early morning. I've never lived anywhere in the UK that offers you a similar service/coverage for that cost.

I fine the public transport (on the whole) very clean, and things generally run on time. I like the way everyone thanks the bus driver :)

Yes, the further you go from the city, there are less buses etc, but I don't think anyone would expect the same amount of services offered in the CBD, in somewhere like Rodney.

It's by no means perfect and could really benefit from a couple more wharfs further up the North Shore and and big expansion of the train lines, but IMHO there's no way you can say that the public transport in Auckland is virtually non-existent. Oh, and I don't think it's that expensive either. :nice1

Milliemoo

[mgbridges]

Having lived in Sydney for 2 years and Auckland for 2 months, here's my contribution:

Sydney is very definitely Big City. The harbour is spectacularly beautiful, and there are pockets of great beauty elsewhere, but there's a lot of "could be any big city" about. There are, of course, advantages to this in terms of access to nightlife, restaurants etc. In terms of saefty and friendliness I have to say I rate Auckland much higher.

Public transport is better organised in Sydney, in that the buses, ferries and trains link up in a much more sophisticated way. Auckland has a way to go but there are a few simple things (like sorting out the timetabling) which could make the buses a lot more useable.

Depends what you're looking for I guess. We were in Sydney 8 years ago - just the 2 of us, no kids so I think it was probably the better place at the time. Now we have a young son and I'd MUCH rather be iN Auckland.

Just my opinion.

Martin

[ruthyroo]

Having lived in Sydney for 2 years and Auckland for 2 months, here's my contribution:

Sydney is very definitely Big City. The harbour is spectacularly beautiful, and there are pockets of great beauty elsewhere, but there's a lot of "could be any big city" about. There are, of course, advantages to this in terms of access to nightlife, restaurants etc. In terms of saefty and friendliness I have to say I rate Auckland much higher.

Public transport is better organised in Sydney, in that the buses, ferries and trains link up in a much more sophisticated way. Auckland has a way to go but there are a few simple things (like sorting out the timetabling) which could make the buses a lot more useable.

Depends what you're looking for I guess. We were in Sydney 8 years ago - just the 2 of us, no kids so I think it was probably the better place at the time. Now we have a young son and I'd MUCH rather be iN Auckland.

Just my opinion.

Martin


I would agree with just about everything that Martin says above. Sydney is probably my absolute favourite city in the world - the harbour, the bridge, the history, the culture, the pubs (real proper pubs, not crappy drinking / betting shops or wine bars which seem to be the only alternatives in NZ), the architecture, the ferries, fantastic weather, great beaches, restaurants, cafes etc etc. It is a real buzz being there - I lived there for just under a year and have holidayed several times since. Feeling like being part of the 21st century is a plus as well...

Auckland I have not lived in, but have never warmed to in any of the times we've passed through. It's ugly, makes no positive feature of its harbour / hills, has no good central focus points, and strikes me as being run-down and boring with poor public transport (Sorry to all Auckland fans - this is all just MHO!).

But... (and this is a big but) like Martin all the things about Sydney that I love depend primarily on being right in the centre of the action - which you can do easily when you are on holiday OR living there without any young children. Having kids changes things a lot I imagine, when it comes to daily life - and I can see that a smaller, less intensively developed, more family friendly place like Auckland might appeal rather than Sydney. Sydney is great when you are YFS* - Auckland might be better for MWK*. Notwithstanding this I think Sydney would be a great place to either live for a while if someone else is paying the bills, or to holiday in with kids.

*Young free and single
**Married with kids

[thepiesleys]

Hi there,

Just had to chip in with my POV cause I completely disagree with you.

Auckland has buses, trains and ferries and offers very comprehensive service when you consider the size of greater Auckland and it's population in relation to that.

I can buy a $14 pass and use the ferries, buses and trains all day and into the early morning. I've never lived anywhere in the UK that offers you a similar service/coverage for that cost.

I fine the public transport (on the whole) very clean, and things generally run on time. I like the way everyone thanks the bus driver :)

Yes, the further you go from the city, there are less buses etc, but I don't think anyone would expect the same amount of services offered in the CBD, in somewhere like Rodney.

It's by no means perfect and could really benefit from a couple more wharfs further up the North Shore and and big expansion of the train lines, but IMHO there's no way you can say that the public transport in Auckland is virtually non-existent. Oh, and I don't think it's that expensive either. :nice1

Milliemoo

I cant really be bothered to go into this but complete and utter rot.

The bus from the end of my street to Botany runs every two hours, the last ferry back to were I live from the CBD leaves at 4.30pm, The buses on the Pak highway to Downtown has absolutly no rhyme and reason to it, my nearest train station is approx. 20K away, If I want to go to Howick it's quicker to walk, the concept of a return fare is alien on the bus here. I also think over $10 for a return on a rubbish bus that takes for ever into the CBD is poor value, especially when your forced to balance a small child and a buggy on your lap as there is absolutly no provision for buggies.

FYI I live in Half Moon Bay - not exactly the extremeties of Auckland.

Give me a 2.20GBP daysaver on West Midlands buses any day of the week, it takes the most direct route and I have never had to wait more than 5 mins for my trusty number 9 at anytime of the day - even the night bus at the weeekend. Also if I want I can get the 256 to see my mum in law, the 19 to go to the rugby cub for a pint ot the 139 to go up to the cinema. All on the same ticket.

I thang yew...

Dan

[able]

I cant really be bothered to go into this but complete and utter rot.


How can Milliemoo's post be "complete and utter rot"? She's reporting her personal experiences.

Is it complete and utter rot when she says "I can buy a $14 pass and use the ferries, buses and trains all day and into the early morning."

Is it complete and utter rot when she says "I fine the public transport (on the whole) very clean, and things generally run on time. I like the way everyone thanks the bus driver."

Perhaps these really aren't the things she has personally experienced?

Perhaps she's just making it all up?

Or maybe ........., just maybe, she's just living somewhere different from you and so her personal experences are different?

[thepiesleys]

---

[Milliemoo]

Dan, This is obviously a sensitive subjuct for you, that I suspect is not entirely just about getting from A-B in Auckland.

I cant really be bothered to go into this but complete and utter rot.

I was giving my point of view from my own experience of living in Auckland. You give you opinion, I give mine, other's chip in, that's how it works and then people who don't live here have the benefit of lots of experience



The bus from the end of my street to Botany runs every two hours, the last ferry back to were I live from the CBD leaves at 4.30pm, The buses on the Pak highway to Downtown has absolutly no rhyme and reason to it, my nearest train station is approx. 20K away, If I want to go to Howick it's quicker to walk, the concept of a return fare is alien on the bus here. I also think over $10 for a return on a rubbish bus that takes for ever into the CBD is poor value, especially when your forced to balance a small child and a buggy on your lap as there is absolutly no provision for buggies.

FYI I live in Half Moon Bay - not exactly the extremeties of Auckland.

I'm not sure I really see the point of highlighting a couple of bus/ferry routes and implying that the hundreds of different services in and around Auckland run in a similar way.

I could mention that I can catch the ferry every half hour from Devonport to the CD *even on Christmas Day* and there's a bus which meets that ferry to take people to Takapuna, but I don't for a second think that every suburb in Auckland is lucky enough to have such a great service.


Give me a 2.20GBP daysaver on West Midlands buses any day of the week, it takes the most direct route and I have never had to wait more than 5 mins for my trusty number 9 at anytime of the day - even the night bus at the weeekend. Also if I want I can get the 256 to see my mum in law, the 19 to go to the rugby cub for a pint ot the 139 to go up to the cinema. All on the same ticket.

Dan

Having not lived in the Midlands and also not really seeing the relevance of comparing the 'trusty number 9 service' with the HMB ferry, I can't really comment. If catching the the 256 to see your MIL and the 19 to get to the rugby club for a pint is so important to you, you may want to consider moving to the West Midlands.

****

For anyone that needs any help or advice on tickets/passes/services in Auckland, please feel free to give me a shout. I often find the MAXX travel website a bit confusing and it does help chatting to someone with a bit of local knowledge. We used public transport all over Auckland when we first arrived, looking at different suburbs etc :nice1

Milliemoo

p.s *puts on best Jesse impression* Today I shall mostly be traveling on the ferry and bus, so shall purchase an $11 pass :)

[sidabrine]

well, this is slightly diverging from the original question, but public transport in Auckland is one of the things that gets me upset:

1) To go to movies in the city for a couple of us takes careful planning (you don't just walk out to the street, no no... you may have to wait 55 minutes if you don't check the schedule) and $17.20 (both ways for two). While driving (15 minutes) and parking a car in the city is either free (if you find a parking place) or $6 (unlimited time till next morning) + whatever the gasoline costs (can't be more than $3-4). Makes the choice of taking the bus or driving easy, right?

2) The trains actually WAIT for you if they see you running down the walkway (obviously, the next train is 1 hour). Forget about places like Tokyo where you have to stand at the right side of the platform to get on the right train and trains come every 40 seconds, France where the train made the speed record of nearly 500km/h (am I exagerating here?), and what about the old saying "train waits for no man"? Not in Auckland... :)

Anyway, public transport can't be much worse than it is in Auckland and just looking at the train/ferry/bus network in Syndey things look promising.

Thanks for all the people that wrote about their experiences in Sydney. If we go there, we'll probably go there as DINKs (double income no kids), so it could be fun actually.

[sidabrine]

Just an update on this, just visited Sydney and absolutely LOVED it. What a BEAUTIFUL city! Will miss Western beaches and green Waitakere ranges, but definitely not Auckland city... I am absolutely thrilled to sign my contract and start a new life across the ditch. Thanks for all the advice that you gave in this forum!

[akp713]

Hello, I lived in Auckland for six months and visited Sydney on holiday for a week and I would have to say I preferred Auckland. Sydney felt very American to me, in fact it distincly reminded me of Boston, my home town, but with poorer public transport. It was somewhat dirtier than I had expected and the traffic on the motorways was terrible. At one point on the M7 headed to the Blue Mts, I was stuck, not moving an inch for over an hour. There was also lots of traditional American sprawl, suburbs stretching on forever, I think most of the population is in the suburbs not the city.

If you like the city a lot though I would say Sydney would definitely be preferable as it feels like a big city, has a lot more activity and choice. Auckland mostly feels like a very large suburb unless you are on Queen St. I have to say that IMO Auckland is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, with its turquoise harbour, rangitoto, the green waitakeres in the background and tiny skyline. Also it should be noted that Auckland has as many taxis as Sydney despite its much smaller population. I would agree though that the buses and trains are quite poor.