[able]

I couldn't help noticing as I walked around Asda today that a huge number of people were fat, very fat, or very, very fat. (Must admit, I'm much too fat myself these days but I'm gradually losing weight.) I've read that there's an obesity epidemic amongst people from the Pacific Island in NZ. What about the European population in NZ? On the whole do you think they're slimmer, fatter or just the same as where you came from?

[migratory birds]

The Pima Indians of the North American Southwest have experienced a tremendous rise in obesity and its co-morbid diseases (adult-onset diabetes, hypertension and elevated cholesterol) since the arrival of European settlers/foodstuff on the continent (as have many First Nation peoples).

I wonder if this is what has contributed to a rise in obesity in Polynesians - not that they're naturally big people (many are tall and large-boned though) but that they've moved from what used to be a native diet to a diet of highly refined foods.

The European population in North America is likely larger than their European ancestors/counterparts but we've access to such poor quality foods shipped in from all over the world that just weren't available 75 years ago.

It has been demonstrated that when the Pima (and Native Hawaiins, many of whom are of Polynesian ancestry) eat what used to be their native diet, one that their ancestors ate prior to the dietary influences of European settlers, they tend to lose weight and regain a sense of greater health.

There's also some new research suggesting a viral component to obesity. This may explain why we're seeing an upward trend in obesity in many parts of the world.

[Nick88]

I always put it down to natural selection (sort of). Imagine a group of people that get on a boat and sail away looking for a new place to live, and it takes a bit longer than anticipated. Food runs out, water gets very low, and things look pretty bleak. It will be the skinny people that do not have reserves of fat that will die first, and the heavier ones will survive to populate the new island. This is compounded by failures of subsistence farming crops and bouts of bad weather.

This scenario must have repeated itself countless times as the polynesians spread throughout the islands. NZ was the last of the islands to be discovered because to get back to the island of departure you tend to go into the trade winds, making a return journey more difficult to predict (slower) and so more dangerous. Again those with more reserves are more likely to get home to try again another day.

[gil]

I couldn't help noticing as I walked around Asda today that a huge number of people were fat, very fat, or very, very fat. (Must admit, I'm much too fat myself these days but I'm gradually losing weight.) I've read that there's an obesity epidemic amongst people from the Pacific Island in NZ. What about the European population in NZ? On the whole do you think they're slimmer, fatter or just the same as where you came from?

I have posted about this before because it was something I really noticed. Generally people are slimmer here, imo and you definitely see more poeple out running, cycling and walking.

Gil

[Familyofmonkeys]

I have posted about this before because it was something I really noticed. Generally people are slimmer here, imo and you definitely see more poeple out running, cycling and walking.

Gil

I have also noticed that there are much fewer 'larger' people here of European descent. I think alot of it is a cultural thing...very out door type of life. I also think people probably burn off more energy living in freezing Kiwi houses :yes

[dilanium]

There's also some new research suggesting a viral component to obesity. This may explain why we're seeing an upward trend in obesity in many parts of the world.

I've read about this "viral component to obesity" and I think it's the biggest piece of hogwash I've heard recently. With the information that I've read so far- it's just another example of people wanting to pass the buck on personal responsibility.

I live in Ohio, one of the fattest states in one of the fattest countries in the world. People here eat horrible food and drive everywhere. Around here everyone is trying to lose weight, but then it's too hot out, it's too humid, it's too cold, it's raining, I have a headache.... etc etc. I hear it all the time.

Yes, it's a virus affecting the people of Ohio. The virus of laziness.

[aberdian]

I always put it down to natural selection (sort of). Imagine a group of people that get on a boat and sail away looking for a new place to live, and it takes a bit longer than anticipated. Food runs out, water gets very low, and things look pretty bleak. It will be the skinny people that do not have reserves of fat that will die first, and the heavier ones will survive to populate the new island. This is compounded by failures of subsistence farming crops and bouts of bad weather.

This scenario must have repeated itself countless times as the polynesians spread throughout the islands. NZ was the last of the islands to be discovered because to get back to the island of departure you tend to go into the trade winds, making a return journey more difficult to predict (slower) and so more dangerous. Again those with more reserves are more likely to get home to try again another day.
Being serious here??

[migratory birds]

Of course, there are a multitude of causes of obesity and are much greater than "passing the buck on personal responsibility and the virus of laziness" as dilanium puts it but unfortuneately she is not alone in holding these perceptions of obese individuals.

[dilanium]

Mind you, I have a mother-in-law with serious health problems who is overweight, but due to other problems, she can't be active.

She is one of the few people who is an exception. On the whole I find people have little self discipline when it comes to food.

I saw a statistic somewhere that people with lower incomes have higher rates of obesity. I'll see if I can locate where I saw that.

[dilanium]

Article from CNN on obesity in lower income people.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/diet.fitness/03/04/obesity.paradox.ap/index.html

[LesleyS]

Isn't it funny how obesity is often linked to lower income people?

In the olden days (as my grandma used to say " You never saw a fat poor person")

Education obviously plays a big part in today's culture, and IMHO there's way to many fast food outlets in towns and cities in the UK - or are people just too lazy to cook these days? :yes

[BkyMonster]

At least in America cheap food is usually unhealthy food--or it takes too much preparation. :(
Portion sizes are out of control. Restaurants emphasize huge meals for your money (which skews peoples ideas of what to eat at home) and there are fast food value menus everywhere. $1.00 for 6-700 calories or more and since portion sizes have been scaled up people may eat more than one such 'value' item at a sitting.

[barryp]

It's hard to keep your weight down when you're working two sedentary jobs just to pay the rent, there probably isn't a supermarket with fresh goods nearby, and your family can get their entire daily requirement of calories from a fast food meal at $5-7 per person with no time invested.

The food choices available to the working poor in the USA are extremely limited, and it's not even remotely fair to blame personal irresponsibility for a toxic food environment that's really hard to escape. Access to quality fresh ingredients and time to prepare meals from scratch are luxuries in that context, not a sign of laziness.

In NZ, the challenges seem to me to be awfully similar. Food is a larger proportion of the family budget than in the USA - food is more expensive generally and salaries overall are lower. Two Malaysian takeaways, loaded with refined starches and fat, can feed a family of 4 for $20 including sides. Fish & chips: same. Pizza: even cheaper.

Obesity is a bigger problem (ahem) among Pasifikers and Maori than amoung Pakeha. Likewise complications related to obesity, such as type 2 diabetes. I don't know how much is genetic and how much is an effect of poverty, but there's consensus that both are factors.

[Lupin]

Excellent post barryp :clap

[dilanium]

While I agree that the toxic food environment is part of it, I also feel that the lack of education about nutrition among the poor is also to blame.

Then there's the culture that we live in, which makes fast food joints "cool." Heck, I still get asked by my friends if I want to go hang out with them at Taco Bell, KFC, or McDonald's, even though they know I don't eat fast food.

Though, I for one, will not allow it to be blamed on lack of time. I have been in positions where I had no money, so I worked 2 (sometimes 3) jobs to make ends meet, I also then started going to school full time while working 2 jobs and volunteering. The key is that I made wise choices with my limited food budget and tried very hard to walk whenever I could. Granted, when there isn't a lot of money, the good food you can eat won't be the tastiest (canned peas, yuck!), but they are the better choice.

I think I should mention that I'm not talking about people who are 10-20 lbs overweight, that happens, I'm talking more in the 40+ lbs overweight that seem to be everywhere where I live.

I do know though, that the larger people are, the harder it is for them to lose the weight safely. If you notice you're gaining weight when it's only been 10-20 lbs, it's much easier to loose it than when you've gained much much more than that.

[Nick88]

@Aberdian - Yes, a slightly unconventional idea, I grant you but it has a certain amount of logic. It is alot more sensible than blaming a virus.

[LesleyS]

Though, I for one, will not allow it to be blamed on lack of time. I have been in positions where I had no money, so I worked 2 (sometimes 3) jobs to make ends meet, I also then started going to school full time while working 2 jobs and volunteering. The key is that I made wise choices with my limited food budget and tried very hard to walk whenever I could. Granted, when there isn't a lot of money, the good food you can eat won't be the tastiest (canned peas, yuck!), but they are the better choice. :yes Quote

I have cooked food for my family on a very limited budget, with limited resources at my disposal - but have never resorted to fast food/junk food to bulk up the calories!!! :no

[Familyofmonkeys]

I have cooked food for my family on a very limited budget, with limited resources at my disposal - but have never resorted to fast food/junk food to bulk up the calories!!! :no

Yes, you could feed a family of 4 a relatively healthy meal for way less than even a cheap takeaway e.g. bang 4 baked potatos in the oven and throw a bag of prepacked salad on the side....minimal effort and the most expensive bit would be the $3 for the salad!

[hegs]

New Zealand immigration are obviously clamping down on overweight immigrants.
They are now refusing applications from People who are overweight.
it is a pity UK immigrants were not more carefully vetted.

[catt]

Yes your right they are clamping down on fat people emmigrating to NZ and as a fat person i am not impressed. I am very rarely ill i can honestly say that i have visited the doctors twice in the last 5 years. Five of my friends who are "normal" sized have the following conditions:

2 have type 2 diabetes (one 35 yrs old the other 42 yrs old)
2 have heart conditions (both in their 40s)
1 has a kidney disorder which necessitates dialysis (31 yrs old)

In recent times people i know have died who are much younger than me with one or other of the above after long illnesses.

I know being fat is not good for me and yes i am a foodee.........i can lose weight quite dramatically and then put it on just as fast. What i would say is that one of the reasons, although not the main one, I want to be in NZ is that when i was there in November 2007 i lost 17lbs in the month we were there and it wasnt that we didnt eat. I put it down to less access to fast foods (or at least the type i really enjoy indian, chinese, mexican, etc) and also the fresh produce that we sourced there along with the outdoor lifestyle that is lacking for me over here. I really enjoyed walking over there i hate it here.........we were on the beach a lot walking the surf as well as some of the country walks.

I am off for my medical on the 27th and yes i know i am going to have difficulty and i am more than grateful for the fact that my hubby is a returning kiwi and hoping for a waiver.......we will see.

By the way i swim 5 times a week, usually 1km each time, i am not un intelligent i have a 2.1 degree and a Masters also hold down a high pressured job in the NHS (non clinical).........i find it really naff when people talk over me because i am fat and because they think that i am stupid as well also it really p's me off when thin folk seem to know why fat people are fat.......live it then comment!!!!!

[dilanium]

Catt I appreciate how you feel. I grew up quite large when I was younger and have struggled with my weight. However, it is statistically proven that people with a BMI of 35+ will be more of a strain on the health system than those beneath that. Unfortunately, you and your friends are exceptions to that. You are going to be lumped in with the rest of those people who do have problems.

You do not state how "fat" you are: whether you are just considered over weight, obese, or morbidly obese (I doubt you're at this level considering your lifestyle). I do not feel you have to share that information either. But, that changes how you will be assessed. I'm not sure how the "clamping down" will effect you, but if you are closer to a BMI of 35 than say, 45, and you have good blood levels and haven't had a history of major illness I would say your chances are fairly good (I am not, however, a medical assessor, this is just going from what I have seen).

That being said, I find (for me) that not eating at fast food chains (I buy ready made meals at the grocery store instead- healthier and cheaper usually), and not drinking as much soda and alcohol has helped me maintain my weight much lower. I know it's hard. I really do.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope everything goes smoothly for you in this process.

[lockstock]

As someone dealing with a higher BMI than average (much higher) I have noticed that there is a much higher proportion of very obese children at my school and around the city generally. Some of these kids have trouble walking. I'm not talking about chubby here, I'm talking enormous. It seems to be seen as perfectly acceptable - which is worrying. I haven't seen anyone teased or left out because of their size which is a relief. I would also say I haven't seen many of the 'skinny' type of girl we have in the UK.

[Jennispink]

As a former fat person (clinically obese) I feel in a position to comment but only about my personal situation!
For me it was the virus of laziness. I confess that when I returned to full time work after having DS I was full of excuses why I didn't eat properly. The stupid thing was I was spending an enormous amount of time and effort on making sure DS had a good healthy balanced diet, no pre prepared food for him thank you very much.

Time came though when I just had to face facts and admit it was all my doing that I wasn't happy with what was looking back out of the mirror.

Six months later I can safely say that I have heaps more energy therefore spending an extra 20 minutes or so in the kitchen doesn't bother me. And I also cook on a very tight budget. Typical supermarket costs come to about £20-25 a week for family of three. That includes fresh fruit, salad, milk, bread, frozen quorn stuff (we're all veggies) and nappies and wipes.
The only thing I feel guilty about is the nappies. We used to buy biodegradable ones online but have switched to Value/Smart Price. We reckon in the long run once we've gone as green as humanly possible it'll all cancel out.

I'm sorry to say it but unless you have a medical condition there is no excuse. I accept that for each individual there is a certain point in time and a certain point mentally that you have to get to before you can start to change your lifestyle but at the end of the day it comes down to choice.

IMHO:laugh

Sorry to rant

[Sam B]

Well my observations in NZ are this:

In Cambridge where I live (high decile area, mostly white European origin people) - people are much thinner than the UK, you see a lot of people out jogging, walking, there are 2 gyms, both busy, the kids at the schools are mainly very thin and athletic, hardly ever see anyone smoking in public etc etc - so healthier and thinner than the UK in general.

In Tokoroa, where I work (all decile 1 schools, high population of Pacific Islanders and Maori people) - far more overweight and obese people than I saw in the area of the UK I worked in. I never see anyone jogging, lots of people smoke. Many of the high school kids appear to be morbidly obese. In general, very high levels of obesity.

Both areas seem to have the same access to leisure facilities - there are plenty of parks, playgrounds, both have swimming pools, tennis courts etc. but the supermarkets in the 2 towns stock radically different food. I have never found any fresh wholemeal bread in Tokoroa anywhere for example.

Anyway, these are just my observations, and may not be backed up by statistics.

[sillyskuld]

However, it is statistically proven that people with a BMI of 35+ will be more of a strain on the health system than those beneath that.

Actually, those studies have been overturned recently. Thinner people tend to live longer, and therefore are statistically more expensive over their lifetime. The cost of managing diabetes is nothing compared to the cost of ten years nursing care for someone in their 90's.

Regardless, until NZ Immigration forbids smokers (and other much higher risk, cost-wise, behaviors), I feel these unwritten rules regarding BMI are nothing more than the current fad of moral high-horsing. It seems like every decade there is a new crop of moral superiority about something where people can feel justified in spewing vitrol about other people's lives. Bleah.

Not trying to start an arguement, or bad-mouth anyone here, I'm just tired of people dressing up their judgemental behaviors as concern.

[dilanium]

I am concerned for overweight people, because regardless of their strain on the health system- they will (statistically of course) live shorter lives.

I'm not sure that INZ doesn't take smoking into account- it is a question on the medical, I would assume that if someone smokes a lot it may raise a red flag.

If that's what makes you happy fine, but I would rather everyone live long healthy lives.

[JandM]

people dressing up their judgemental behaviors as concern.
This is a rather big assumption. On this forum where many people go out of their way to help strangers for no particular reason, I don't think this can apply.

[sillyskuld]

This is a rather big assumption. On this forum where many people go out of their way to help strangers for no particular reason, I don't think this can apply.

...Hogwash… people wanting to pass the buck on personal responsibility… virus of laziness… too lazy… lack of education...

This is not concern.

I don’t want to see anyone judged for their choices, be they overweight or otherwise. You can’t possibly know what led them to that choice. Snap second decisions based on one criteria harms everyone. As our society becomes more interconnected, it seems to lead to more and more people expressing NOKD (not our kind, darling). I recently overheard this woman ranting about how unbelievably stupid someone was for not wearing polyester rather than organic cotton clothing. She was so worked up she was almost foaming at the mouth. Is this where we, as a society, are going?

If we want to make changes, be a proponent for change rather than expressing anger at people who’ve made decisions you don’t agree with. Give nutrition courses at your child’s class. Bring fruit to the office. Donate healthy food to the local food bank. Help out a struggling neighbor by babysitting so she has time to make healthier meals. Vote with your wallet and support organic farmers.

Of course, I’m being judgmental by expressing frustration at people who judge, but *shrugs* what can you do?

[JandM]

Of course, I’m being judgmental by expressing frustration at people who judge, but *shrugs* what can you do?
Avoid tarring people with the same brush without evidence?

[v1cky]

Two words

Refined carbohydrate.

Very readily available and cheap and absolute poison for the body.

If people ate less of this and made good fats, protein and leafy green veg the staple of their diet I guarantee that the obesity and diabetes problems would vanish given time.

IMHO.

[dilanium]

v1cky, for the most part I agree with you, but some people do need to get out and move their bodies more too (which, admittedly is harder the larger you get)

[Tia Maria]

There are so many factors involved, but for me the key is getting to the children. If you can get them to make the right choices and understand that an active life is a healthy life, then they will find this a lot easier to maintain in adult life.

So in other words you need to educate/help parents and schools. I really liked what Jamie Oliver was trying to achieve when we left the UK. If kids see other kids eating healthily they will follow suit.

I also know there are a lot of people my age, like me, who simply can't cook. I was bought up by a working Mum and food was all about convenience rather than health or taste. If you can't cook, then it is harder work to prepare meals which are quick and tasty.

Where we live in NZ it definitely has a healthy culture, my kids want to ride bikes because their mates do, they walk to school because their friends are on the walking school bus, same for weekend soccer, fun runs, triathlons, boogie boarding etc. So its a lot easier for me to encourage my children to be active as its all around them.

Of course if they were surrounded by friends who played playstation, had weekly BBQs, watched telly and went to the cinema as their main leisure activities then my job would be harder.

I do think many people simply fail to appreciate how active you have to be to work off a biscuit or packet of crisps. Even if everyone spent just one day following every piece of food they ate with the amount of exercise they needed to 'work it off', then they may start to understand where its going wrong.

Personally I prefer the taste of unhealthy food, I'm not someone who can say I like salad and as I try to drum into my children its fine to have it as a treat once in a while, I also try to drum it into myself!

Cheers

Tia

[lockstock]

Not to mention the effect of dairy products. I'll be struck down saying this here in the Waikato but humans are the only 'animal' which not only consumes milk after childhood but also milk of another species. Cows milk is for calves - to make them grow, and grow quickly. What are the effects on humans? Makes you think when it's linked to ME, Chronic fatigue syndrome, arthritis, asthma, eczema, depression...