[nippa&pippa]

might turn into debate :o
but after three local girls, all 15 years old, was killed on sunday just around the corner from my house by 15 years old driver. Do you think 15 years old is too young to drive a car? what is ideal age do you think it is right age to start drive?

[Carol]

Yes!

I can see the reasons why 15 year olds need to learn to drive........ in rural communities........ but physically and mentally - they are just too young to be driving around your standard towns and villages. IMHO

BTW - I've taken my 15 year old out a couple of times - but we are postponing any further lessons until he is "ready" - which will be a decision we both will be making. He is the first to agree his concentration span isnt good enough yet.
:roll

[Sam B]

15 is so young. I was pretty dangerous at 17, but I suppose they've got to learn sometime, so maybe, 17?

[Familyofmonkeys]

I can see the reasons why 15 year olds need to learn to drive........ in rural communities........ but physically and mentally - they are just too young to be driving around your standard towns and villages. IMHO




I agree with that...even 17 like in UK is too young, but I believe that is changing to 18 in next few years. Problem is same everywhere...lack of public transport (especially for those 16 year olds who work, rather than college/school where there is a chance they could car share), so parents end up being taxi service....if they are able or willing, that is. Don't know much about NZ restricted licence, but I think compulsory P plates and lower speed limit and possibly compulsory insurance for younger drivers may help, and an additional retest after 12 months....but then I suppose you have the usual problems of enforcing these rules.

[ellenmelon]

well, i think that i (and a lot of my friends) are an exception to the rule with regards to when we got our learners and restricted.
when i was 16, i sat my theory test to get my learner licence. i did a few wee drives with my mum, but that didnt work out so well!! :) bit too stressful for the both of us.
i then didnt drive at all until my parents moved to ireland and i was desperate for transportation when i had late opera rehearsals and public transport had finished for the night. i started driving lessons with an instructor not long after my 18th birthday and didnt get my restricted till about halfway through 2003. im lucky that my mum was willing to stump up the cash, cause no way could i have afforded the lessons and i had no one that i could ask to teach me.
my experience is mimiced by pretty much all my high school friends..the fact that we were late in getting our restricted.

yeah, i think 15 is too young to be able to get your learners but then im like well 18 is too old.
i also think that some young people are being taught bad habits when they get taught by their parents...and some like me, didn't/dont have someone that is willing to put in the time to help them learn to drive.

with regards to insurance,and how insurance should be compulsory i was piggybacked on my parents insurance for a comparitively small cost a month, as were a hell of a lot of young people i know so im not sure that uninsured young drivers are a rule, more of an exception.

at 22, after driving for a while, im still on my restricted. i dont feel ready to sit my full licence..i think im a good driver though, so if sudden extra restrictions got put on restricted drivers of my age, id be first in line to kick up a fuss :)

[wiki]

I sat my learners a week after I turned 15. Six months after that I moved onto my restricted. Our school offered free defensive driving lessons so I was elligible for my full licence aged 16 and 3 months and got it.

I wish I could tell you that I didn't do a good job of mangling my Dad's car about four months after that, but I can't... I was going too fast for a rural corner and ended up in a ditch. Luckily we didn't flip and I somehow managed to drive out of the ditch and end up back on the (thankfully deserted) road, but snapped the driveshaft in the process. My passenger and I were unhurt, but it could have been a lot, lot worse.

However, that early crash has made me a much better driver.

I was incredibly luckily, and those girls heading to the sleepover in Lincoln weren't. They were on a 3km stretch of straight road and now three lives have been lost and a group of six friends has been split in half. I just thank God that wasn't me.

At 15 some people are perfectly able to drive safely - and a lot aren't. I think for the greater good it would be better to raise the age to 17 for a learners. Give it 10 years and no-one will remember the fuss that the change brought in.

[nippa&pippa]

However, that early crash has made me a much better driver.

I was incredibly luckily, and those girls heading to the sleepover in Lincoln weren't. They were on a 3km stretch of straight road and now three lives have been lost and a group of six friends has been split in half. I just thank God that wasn't me.

At 15 some people are perfectly able to drive safely - and a lot aren't. I think for the greater good it would be better to raise the age to 17 for a learners. Give it 10 years and no-one will remember the fuss that the change brought in.

Agree the road was straight road as they were coming from Lincoln in car, after been to christchurch by bus, aheading toward Springton, my town. She wasn't allowed to carry passengers as she was on restricted licence. For me to drive past the accident scene now full of flowers, photos etc left by their friends is reminder of three lives lost, brought back the memories of 5 young lads lost their lives down the road from where I lived in UK who was only 17 and 18 years old.

[vixxann]

Although my almost 14yr old son is terribly excited by prospect of being able to drive quite soon after we get to NZ - that same prospect frightens me to death. Its just to to young. They cannot concentrate on more than one thing at once - I think you physically and mentally need to be a lot older to cope with driving. 17 min. age in my book but probably on some kind of learner plate for a year until 18 before you can get full licence - I also think insurance should be compulsory.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Agree the road was straight road as they were coming from Lincoln in car, after been to christchurch by bus, aheading toward Springton, my town. She wasn't allowed to carry passengers as she was on restricted licence. For me to drive past the accident scene now full of flowers, photos etc left by their friends is reminder of three lives lost, brought back the memories of 5 young lads lost their lives down the road from where I lived in UK who was only 17 and 18 years old.

I have also lost several friends in road accidents in my late teens....one was a car full of 15 to 17 year olds on way back from young farmers one night....lad driving had just passed his test and was driving his dad's car. A few others as well as that...all on country roads...mostly lost control on bends as going too fast, even though they were under speed limit.....just not mature enough to assess dangers and risks very well.

[Kim39]

15 is too young to try and take on the responsibility of what is a possible killing machine in the wrong hands. My opinion, is as much as it doesn't stop any mishaps that youngsters may have when they do eventually get behind the wheel and pass their test, but the fact that it is not compulsary over here to actually have a driving instructor instruct you, and that can have a bearing in why these people to do the damage they do. A defensive driving course is not the answer, as having been police trained due to my role in the Ambulance Service back home, the driving ability is of a high standard and to get to that standard you have to pass a very rigorous course. Am sure that a defensive course over here is a quarter of what is required back home. If anything a person should be allowed to learn at the age of 17 like the UK, but should the law not change here then i go along with some of the opinions here within the thread. Another way i suppose is to limit the type of car the individuals can drive, or make sure that the car has a limiter fitted at the individuals cost. Trucks have them, so why not cars.

Something has to be done sooner rather than later to ensure, not only the drivers safety, but also other road users safety.


Kim

[victoria]

Remember that 15 yo driving came about as a lot of kiwis went to war. Well it's been over for quite some time. In the meanwhile cars have become far more fast & quiet. YES 15 is too young.

[dilanium]

I don't necessarily think that 15 is too young to start learning- with an adult in the car. I wouldn't let them out on the road by themselves until they're at least 16, but I think 17 or 18 would be better.

[Caniwi]

.....just not mature enough to assess dangers and risks very well.


Unfortunately, this isn't limited to only 15 year olds......there are a lot of 25 year olds (making them, in essence, 10 year driving veterens) that certainly aren't mature drivers and don't assess danger and risk particularly well.

[Carol]

There is a really good video on this page about this subject


http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/814030

[Babette & Andy]

Interesting fact that I was told about by the Life Education teacher at our school this week:-

'Medical research shows that the human brain isn't fully developed till the age of 23 to 25. Specifically the frontal lobe area, the area responsible for decision making, thinking of consequences etc'

Made me think that there is definate case for reviewing the driving age (worldwide).

Babette

[Familyofmonkeys]

I don't necessarily think that 15 is too young to start learning- with an adult in the car. I wouldn't let them out on the road by themselves until they're at least 16, but I think 17 or 18 would be better.

Problem is that if parent teaches child in normal car, they do not have dual controls, as an instructors car usually does. All it takes is for person learning to panic/fluster and slam foot down on accelerator rather than break and you have an accident...which person teaching in passenger seat cannot deflect. This happened to a friend of mine.......ended upside down in a ditch, but luckily no one was badly hurt. She got proper lessons after that, and her poor mum was far too shaken to be a passenger in a car for quite a while!

[ellenmelon]

Problem is that if parent teaches child in normal car, they do not have dual controls, as an instructors car usually does. All it takes is for person learning to panic/fluster and slam foot down on accelerator rather than break and you have an accident...which person teaching in passenger seat cannot deflect. This happened to a friend of mine.......ended upside down in a ditch, but luckily no one was badly hurt. She got proper lessons after that, and her poor mum was far too shaken to be a passenger in a car for quite a while!

not everyone has the cash to be able to afford the amount of lessons needed for your instructor to recommend that you sit your licence..i was lucky that the exchange rate made it A LOT cheaper but it was still 600 dollars plus! for the amount of lessons i had...maybe more. cant remember exactly but it was a lot..most lessons are around the 45 dollar mark at the absolute cheapest usually, for an hour.
yes, its would be great for people to get really good driving training but a lot of parents just dont have that money to spare.

[xanctus]

15??? oh yes wayyyyyyyy toooooo youngggggg....
even 16 or 17 sometimes can be tricky too...

[dilanium]

I suppose it also has to do with how people are taught. I spent my first 20 hours learning how to drive in an empty parking lot where I wasn't allowed to even touch the accelerator for the first 5 hours. I suppose my parents were really strict, (heck I wasn't allowed to get my permit until I had a steady job and a good enough GPA for them) but it worked really well.

Though I had been in a number of accidents with other people driving before I got my permit, and I was afraid of driving for myself.

I definitely agree that people are driving much too young though. In some places in the US you can get a learners permit at 14, but those places are all really rural.

[jubjub]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10463666

This from the herald today... interesting read

[IanW99]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10463666

This from the herald today... interesting read

And another NZ herald article Push on to raise minimun driving age (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10463733)

Ian

[veronica]

the main cause of these accidents is inexperience and thats the same whether someone starts driving at 15 17 or 18. In the case of these young girls it appears that neither speed or alcohol were a factor.

A friend of ours in the UK was head of sixth form at his school and every year with the new intake of 6th formers he arranged for the local traffic police to come into the school and give a talk/presentation to them on driving safety. In almost all of the fatal accidents involving young drivers there were more than two people in the car. so showing off and distraction are big contributors.

Since learning this fact it has been noticable how often it is true, we restricted our girls to the numbers in the car but their driving inexperience at 17 would have been no different if they had been 15 or 19....time and practise are the only cures for that.

[katandbob]

Jason is 17, (UK age limit) and we are now having to push him into getting behind a wheel - why push him you say.... well because I got told last week that he will NOT get an apprenticeship without a restricted licence!
he has not wanted to get behind a wheel since he has been in NZ as he says most of the drivers on the road are nutters!
They speed, pull out dangerously and are impatient.... I agree with him, but I am lucky that I can take him to the estuary or Oreti beach and he can get behind a wheel knowing that the only thing he needs to concentrate on is the car. I will not allow on the road until he feels ready.
I have complained to the council that the lack of public transport in rural areas will not help the cause for extending the age limit, these teenagers need to get to work, and if theres no public transport, they have no choice but to drive themselves.Until the government makes good public transport available to the rural areas like there is in CBD areas, you will always have young kids on the roads.

[nippa&pippa]

We have just sold our second car yesterday, Niva, on trademe. I was horrified to find out that new owner for this car is 15 years old lad :o (I thought he was 21plus as he look so grow up, even he came with his dad, till my OH told me his true age)
Seem parents don't take recent accident as warning that 15 years old is too young to drive...

[veronica]

having two 'grown up' kids the first thing you have to learn is that you do have to let them go and you can't protect them. I personally don't think that 15 is too young to drive and providing you have done your best to bring them up to consider others, be responsible etc etc... then the law says 15 for driving so all you can do if they want to do it is be behind them and give them as much support and practice as you can, At lest this ones dad was with him which shows some responsibility.
Crickey, lets put it in proportion by saying its legal at 16 to have a baby, a far more nerve wracking prospect than a 15 year old driving...

[veronica]

having two 'grown up' kids the first thing you have to learn is that you do have to let them go and you can't protect them. I personally don't think that 15 is too young to drive and providing you have done your best to bring them up to consider others, be responsible etc etc... then the law says 15 for driving so all you can do if they want to do it is be behind them and give them as much support and practice as you can, At lest this ones dad was with him which shows some responsibility.
Crickey, lets put it in proportion by saying its legal at 16 to have a baby, a far more nerve wracking prospect than a 15 year old driving... by 18 they are considered adults and can do what they want, go in the army, take off for a gap year and so on. you have to let them start taking responsibility for themselves at some stage, just be sure that you do as good a job of parenting as you can so they are prepared.

[Familyofmonkeys]

not everyone has the cash to be able to afford the amount of lessons needed for your instructor to recommend that you sit your licence..i was lucky that the exchange rate made it A LOT cheaper but it was still 600 dollars plus! for the amount of lessons i had...maybe more. cant remember exactly but it was a lot..most lessons are around the 45 dollar mark at the absolute cheapest usually, for an hour.
yes, its would be great for people to get really good driving training but a lot of parents just dont have that money to spare.

Thats assuming that parents are willing to pay for the lessons. In my case, I had to save up for my own lessons by babysitting etc as parents could not afford to help me. Even though I got my provisional licence at 17, I waited until 19 and at Uni to take test. I grew up in middle of tiny village with only 2 buses per day....one out at 7am and one back at 6pm.....so no getting part time job either...had to walk or cycle everywhere.

[akp713]

I live in the state of Massachusetts where the driving age has again just been raised to 17 and 6 months, it was 16 and 6 months to have a junior license when I was that age. Each state of course is different, New York City requires drivers be 18, but Montana allows a full unrestricted license at 14, no graduated system at all.

Whenever there are fatal car accidents with teens involved people here start trying to raise the driving age again, but I believe this accomplishes nothing. Current research shows the brain's impulse controls don't fully develop till we are in our early to mid-twenties! This means that a new driver at 21 is just as likely to be a danger as a new 15-year old. The US which for the most part gives licenses to 16-18 year olds has twice the road fatality rate of NZ which allows a learner's lisence at 15. I feel its best to learn to drive while still under parental supervision with a graduated lisence system whether at age 15 or 16. Mind you I also think its ridiculous to ban cell phone while driving since research shows that changing radio stations and talking to others in the car are more distracting but could not and have not been banned. Texting while driving is whole other matter though, that I will agree is dangerous.

I only mention the cell phone ban because it is a big topic in the US now to ban teen drivers, but not adults, from using cell phones in the car.

[veronica]

from my earlier posting you can see that I agree with you on the driving age. I also think that banning the use of cellphones is a good thing. when talking to someone in the car you don't have to take too much attention off of the road and both hands are still on the wheel. with a cell phone its as likely as not to be in a pocket or bag which involves frantic scrabbling to retreive it, then a look down to make sure you push the right buttons, maybe see who it is...by this time you are driving with one hand and half attention, bend comes up, hands on the wrong place on the wheel or head tilted to one side to hold the phone against the shoulder..... doesn't seem to be a good idea to me. I agree that changing radio stations also takes the attention, but you can choose a straight stretch of road to do that, the phone demands instant attention whereever.
in the UK the use of phones in the car is banned and has been for about 4 years and since we have been here both Pete and I avoid using the phone while driving. Watching people trying to change gear and steer while on the phone is visible proof that its not a good idea.

[Gerardv]

Just my 0.02$ and don't know how things are now in NZ but back in '84 I went for my driver's license three times in Holland and failed three times (after some 40 lessons... yep, i am not Michael Schumacher :)).

In '85 in NZ (not having driven for a year, no lessons, nothing) I took the test in Napier. Right, right, and right again (we went around the block), 5 minutes. Passed the test...

As I said maybe things have changed but driver’s tests in Europe* are/were a lot harder to pass than in NZ.

Especially (can’t help to smile when I remember this), since a few other things happened as well during that test. An hour before going in the test center, getting nicely nervous, I noticed that the car mat was loose. Thought “can’t have that, it might move forward during the test and hinder breaking” so I got some glue and glued the mat to the floor (you know where this is going…). I drove to the test center and went inside. Waiting forever, did the multiple choice test and then the examiner and myself went to my car for the driving test. Opened the door to go inside and the smell was just incredible, we must have been high in seconds. This potentially explains two things: 1. Why the test only took 5 minutes and 2. Why I passed.

We started driving and the man says to the left here. I moved to go to the right.
Examiner: “what are you doing, I said left!”.
Me: Oppsss, sorry I did not understand, My English is not so good (serious, that’s what I said! Hey, this was a long time ago, OK?).
Examiner: OK, just go to the right.
In the street where the exam center is I stopped because a truck looked like it might start moving out.
Examiner (after some 15 second): “What are you doing?”
Me: “I am just waiting for that truck, I thought, I… well…

So I pressed the accelerator to start driving. At that very moment the truck did move out. Before I could do anything, the examiner had pulled the handback to stop the car, engine died and there we were… I started the engine and drove the last 50 yards to the center. The examiner did not say anything, he just stepped out of the car and walked away. I got out, locked the car and followed him in. He was behind the counter and I started to say something like “I know that was not very good, etc.” when he handed me my driver’s license…

Not making this up. Turned in my NZ license in Holland and got me a Dutch one. Years later when I moved to Ireland swapped my Dutch license for an Irish one.

I am still not a fantastic driver…

Ger


*Then again in Ireland we have a learner’s drivers scheme which is completely ridiculous. (people on the road who have never done a test at all…)

[veronica]

the driving test here is nothing like that now.