[Tentun]

Hi Everyone

Now I know this is the NZ forum so I'm expecting a certain amount of bias but we have an opportunity to go to both Canada and New Zealand and I'm just stuck for a decision.

Both seem lovely, picturesque, friendly people, climate slightly different but we're not too bothered about hot climate or cold climate, both have outdoorsy/adventure activities lifestyle (albeit from a different angle).

I would just love to hear your views on why you chose New Zealand or perhaps you know a bit about Canada too and can say why you prefer one or the other.

I know it's down to our own circumstances and it's our choice at the end of the day, but this would help

Thank you

[IanW99]

This thread might be a good starting point...
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php

Ian

[Debbie P.]

There's something here:

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5995&highlight=canada

[Debbie P.]

Actually, one more thing that may help - what kind of outdoor activities do you enjoy? With the climate difference, there may be very strong pros for activities/hobbies in one of the countries that those based there may be able to tell you about.

[swissmissdesigner]

Canada is sOOOOOOOOOO COOOOOOOOOld!

[tigerlily]

Yes, what part of Canada are you headed to? There is a huge difference between Vancouver and Saskatchewan!

[Canadian]

I live in what is generally regarded as the nicest city in Canada (Victoria). It was recently voted by Conde Nast Traveller as the best city to visit in the Americas (N & S). Victoria is located on the S. tip of Vancouver Island ( http://www.vancouverisland.com ).

Having built up where I live as a nice place, I must say that I am considering moving to NZ. The main reason is climate. Auckland is 10° latitude closer to the equator than where I live. This means more of the year is available for gardening, which I really enjoy. Although we do have some flowering plants in Victoria in winter, the average high in January is only 8C. In Auckland it is closer to 16C. It's in summer that Victoria really shines (pun intended). Expect sunny long days from June through mid September. Highs around 23C and lows around 12C (don't need A/C). I'm trying to improve on the climate the rest of the year. Victoria gets about 30" of rain a year, most of it in the fall and winter. Coupled with the short days, it can be quite dull. There is seldom snow, which I appreciate.

The economy in W. Canada is booming like never before due to natural resources (energy, minerals, logging - up until recently). We have what is probably the strongest currency in the world right now. There are shortages in almost all fields of work. If making money is important, and you have a skill, then this is a good place to live. If you have money and would like a better climate I would choose NZ. If cultural pursuits are important, then we have a multitude of societies, theatres, symphonies, art galleries etc. Personally I prefer natural beauty and a climate to enjoy it in, so these don't impress me. NZ would seem to fit my needs better.

I have lived in E. Canada. I find that there are too many liberal elites, sponging off the working class through high taxation, that condescendingly look down on those that don't hold the same values. I also can't take the cold winters there.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

[Tentun]

Hmmm, you have given me lots to think about. Thank you.

Our main purpose of immigrating was to give our child a better future. He is only small (2 years) and we want him to have as long a childhood as possible, a safe place to grow up with good schools and plenty of outdoors opportunities. For us, we like to hike and play sports (my husband wants to know if they play cricket in Canada? He is in a team here). We want less crime too.

We don't mind the UK climate so a similar climate would be fine for us - it's not really the hot weather we want and it is for this reason that we never considered Australia as an option.

My husband is going to be a qualified engineer in a little while so maybe it would matter to know something about the job opportunities for engineers in both countries as getting a job and keeping it are obviously very important and I have heard horrible stories about professionals having to re-train in Canada because of qualifications not being recognised.

I appreciate the help, thank you. It's such a tough decision.

[Canadian]

Tentun: Where do you live?

I can't speak to the recognition of credentials in Canada, other than it shouldn't be too hard to find out the current situation. With the labour shortage here it may have gotten better. Also compare NZ.

If you are other than Caucasian, and worry about discrimination, with the huge influx of immigrants here, many parts of cities like Vancouver have a minority of whites, so you will fit right in. This may be true for NZ as well.

Cricket is not played much here. There is likely a cricket club or two but that is about it. Ice hockey captures the attention of most sports fans. This is partly because of the cold winter climate in most of the country and hockey is usually played indoors. On the milder west coast, where I live, sports is not followed so closely. Outdoor pursuits are most important (hiking, fishing, sailing, camping etc.). It's also not a coincidence that the longest lived Canadians are on the west coast. A big vice here is coffee. The climate in conducive to consumption in large quantities. Having spent a year in Oz, and this must be true for NZ, tea is the drink of choice. We have strict no-smoking policies in public buildings that is spreading to the outdoors. I really like this.

Victoria is a great place to bring up kids. Lots of parks with playgrounds. Soccer (football) is popular with the kids, as is baseball. Families like to travel to provincial parks for camping. Fairly safe as well. We are about 400,000 people and maybe have about 6 murders a year (seldom happens to strangers). The liberal courts tend to release repeat offenders way too quickly. The public is upset about this, so it may change. We do have a lot of street people. The milder climate draws them from many points east of here. Although I feel for them, it does make the downtown less desirable. It's a non-issue outside of downtown.

There is a huge amount of wealth on the west coast. This has, in turn, allowed for municipal recreation centres, and the cultural industries (as I mention below) to grow. Although it isn't environmentally friendly, most homes have at least two cars. Many have boats, campers, and other "toys". Recreation is a big deal. Homes are quite large. Ours is 2900 ft2 (269 m2). It is considered small compared to most of the newer homes. They are built to an extremely high standard to withstand the winter. Our home is easily kept at 22C in the winter with central heating.

[Nick88]

Victoria sounds wonderful, I spent time in BC when I was growing up so I don't remember alot of the detail.

BC is far wealthier than NZ, I just looked up the relative per capita GDP figures and BC is over 40% higher than NZ! Even if you are an a fixed income inflation is nearly half in BC. I tend to look at the nitty-gritty stuff like this to evaluate a place when they have largely similar political systems (yes, we have a leftist elite here too) and gorgeous scenery.

Still, if you just want a change and don't burn all of your bridges, why not?

[Canadian]

Thanks Nick88. I would still trade Auckland for Victoria, if all of the hassle of moving was arranged.

Where did you look upper capita GDP and inflation figures? Why would NZ's inflation be twice that of BC?

For the benefit of Tentun: B.C.’s total land and freshwater area is 95 million hectares, larger than France and Germany combined. Only 30 countries are larger. British Columbia occupies about 10 per cent of Canada’s land surface. B.C. has more than 850 provincial parks and protected areas, attracting about 24 million visits every year. I just wish the nice weather lasted longer to get out and enjoy it. Maybe global warming will rectify that? It may for your child anyway.

[Tia Maria]

Tentun,

This is a thread that may be of interest:

www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12536

The cricket season has just started here in NZ and its quite popular among children and the parents also as they often get to sit and watch with a glass of wine.

A much nicer way to spend Saturday morning rather than standing watching football in your wellies, whoops I mean watching soccer in your gumboots! :)

Cheers

Tia

[skibumwa]

Ahhhh this topic is right up personal alley. I moved to Wellington from Seattle. Many times (45x at least) have been to Canada; from Victoria to Whistler to Vancouver to Calgary to Montreal. I have even driven from Vancouver to Alaska. I can say Canada is very nice, especially the Vancouver and Vancouver Island (Victoria) areas.

I first thought about moving to Vancouver BC as I knew it very very well and the move would only take a 3 hour drive :nice1 , however the job market is not too good for Software Engineering/I.T. so I declined Canada.. this is why choose Wellington. However there are times like last weekend how I missed those good old days of taking a weekend trip to Vancouver from Seattle.

If you can find reliable well-paying work in Vancouver, I say go for it. Otherwise NZ is a nice alternative albeit an expensive long move.

As for immigrations red tape, NZ and Canada are about the same in costs and processes from what I remember.

cheers...

[Familyofmonkeys]

We looked at Canada before we decided on NZ. I really loved Canada when I visited, and also have relatives over there. Problem was all the parts of the HUGE country that we would like and able to afford to live in were too remote for OH to get well paid IT work. There are plenty of jobs, but due to nature of his work they are mostly in larger cities. In NZ due to the very small population it is possible to work in (not that big) city and live somewhere relatively remote and quiet, in a way you cannot do anymore in other countries.

[Nick88]

@Canadian, I just googled GDP and BC & NZ. The figures were all from the official govt stats. From memory per capita GDP spread was something like NZ$39k and NZ$56k. Inflation was 1.6% in BC and nearly 3% in NZ. The inflation here is fuelled by high personal debt and very loose govt fiscal policy. Which when coupled with unprecedented govt budget surpluses means they can splash alot of money about, the govt represents nearly 40% of GDP.

[Canadian]

Nick88: you said "From memory per capita GDP spread was something like NZ$39k and NZ$56k." Did you mean Can $56K.

Does the inflation rate in NZ include the cost of homes? If yes, then it is more accurate than in BC. The BC rate is too low, in my opinion. Include housing, as it should, and it is much higher.

[Tentun]

Hey there

Thanks again, you have been very helpful. Here is some background to us which might help explain things.

My husband and I are white South Africans that left South Africa 7 years ago because of increased crime, lack of employment and lack of opportunities for our children. Main reason I guess was that we couldn't bear the feeling of fear all the time and as a few bad crime related things have happened to people close to us, we had to get out for our own sanity.

Our only choice at the time was Europe because of my husband having a Dutch passport from family. Neither of us speak a European language so England was really our only natural choice. We were young and didn't have kids yet so we lived happily in the UK for a few years until little boy number 1 came along and only since he's been around we are asking ourselves questions like: what sort of childhood do we want for him? what sort of opportunities are important for him? What sort of lifestyle do we want?

I guess the answer to that is easy. We just want to be happy, surrounded by friends and for him to be safe and secure and to have a good education and upbringing. For our own reasons, we don't feel the UK is the right place for us as a family right now so we have been looking for somewhere else. New Zealand was first choice because I gather that it would come the closest to the way we grew up in South Africa, similarish climate, beach lifestyle, outdoorsy etc etc.
Are the beaches in Canada nice? We love the beach. Not necessarily for swimming, but just to play in the sand, walk along the water edge. By the sounds of things the west coast would suit us better but might be more expensive to live.
Ice-hockey is foreign to me but then we've lived in England for 7 years and haven't yet caught on to the football madness.

I dunno, I guess if we were rich enough at the moment it might be wise to take a trip over and see it for ourselves, but we can't really afford that much expense right now.

thanks so much for the help. It's an impossible decision.

[Canadian]

Hello Tentun: There are beaches, as such, but it depends on how define a beach? If you want nice sand and large waves then the west coast on Vancouver Island has that. This area is quite isolated except for a few small towns. Getting an Engineering job there is unlikely. In addition they get huge amounts of rain.

On the E. side (inside) of Vancouver Island there are beaches, but they can't hold a candle to ones in Australia or NZ. This is because of a lack of wave action, that means the beaches have a lot of seaweed. All beaches have a lot of logs here and the water is very cold except for areas that have warm sand at low tide which heats the water when the tide comes in. Such beaches are popular with families with small children.

The up side to places on the inside of Vancouver island is that they get less wind (no open ocean) that appears to be a problem in coastal NZ. So, for here, it is either nice beaches or less wind.

The waters around BC, being cold, are quite productive so there is lots of seafood available.

[Nick88]

@ Canadian, The GDP figures are both in NZ$, and the inflation figure here doesn't include property, it is a classic Consumer Price Index as far as I'm aware. Not particularly rosy, eh?

There is a big difference between the beaches on the East and West coasts of NZ, just as there will be on Vancouver Island (no logs, though). The West coast beaches are much more rugged, and likely to have cliffs, so are much better for surfing for much of the year. The East coast doesn't get the prevailing SW winds so the beaches are calmer and more family friendly, usually.

[Debbie P.]

Tentun,

It sounds like you'll be doing some research into employment opportunities. Not an expert on engineering, but is there any way of doing a temporary 'placement' or job swap in either country? Just to get a feel for the place? You might try some of the professional organisations and see if there are any options they are aware of.

I really think it might be difficult for you to make a FINAL decision without checking the places out first. I've been to both (OK, only on holiday) but they seemed very different in character to me. And if money is going to be an issue, you don't want to be stuck somewhere feeling miserable because it isn't right for you.

Have you been to any expos? Also, I can only speak for teaching agencies, but they travel around UK from time to time giving talks about teaching in NZ. Maybe engineering companies do something similiar if looking to recruit? At the talks we went to, they were very honest about the realities of living in NZ (wages vs cost of living), which surprised us, as we thought it would be just a hard-sell thing.