[marcia]

Had an email message from Diny updating us of her life back in the uk, she's tried to post on here but not able to, she gave me permission to cut n paste onto here, so here you go - I'm sure many of you will have heard from her personally as well, but for those that haven't!

First of all a huge apology for not being in touch sooner. We've been back
HOME for 6 weeks now and I don't think my feet have touched the ground yet. I'm having to grab the occasional session on other peoples PC as ours isn't up and running yet. I promise that the the lines of communication will
become more regular once we're back on-line full time.

So - where to begin? Guess I'll just do a run down of what's been happening
since we left NZ, sorry if I bore you - please feel free to skip any parts
that tip you over the edge.

Leaving NZ wasn't too traumatic. Mark had already left a couple of weeks
earlier. The inlaws were sad to see the boys go but there weren't any over
emotional scenes at the airport. I miss my sister in law quite alot as she
was the closest thing I had to a friend over there but we keep in touch
regularly so all's good there.

The flight was OK but I guess without the stop over in Hong Kong it would
have been a pain in the neck. First time we've flown Cathay Pacific and I
guess when you compare them to the likes of Singapore Airlines and Emirates
they don't really come up to scratch - but the food was good.

The hotel in HK was fab !!!!! Never known luxury like it. All 3 of us were
abit cheesed off that we didn't have longer there as we fell in love with
the place the moment we stepped out of the airport - never known such gunine
friendly people. We only booked a one night stop over but have decided to
stay there for a few days either on the way to NZ next year or on the way
back. It was so nice to feel some warmth on our backs after the very long
Manawatu winter.

The flight from HK to UK was hilarious due to the fact that the chap sitting
next to Henny had tourettes - not particularly 'pc' to laugh at him but hell
it was funny !!!!! Especially as he was speaking (shouting) Chinese.

Arrived at Manchester to be welcomed by the entire family - all 18 of them
!!!!!!! It was great. For the first time in 44 years I can honestly say I
was speechless - didn't know who to hug first, the feeling of being home hit
me in an instant and I have to admit hasn't left me yet.

OK - moving on. Mark got back to UK a couple of weeks after us. We signed
up all the legal bumpf for the house and moved in (finally) on 21st
September. We're now busy decorating and putting our mark on the place.
The container hasn't arrived with us yet. It got to the UK last Saturday
and as I write this it's going through the customs clearence, hopefully
it'll be with us by the end of the week (yeah right). The house is very
empty and the novelty of 'camping out' (as the kids call it) is wearing
thin. The boys have new beds but Mark and I are sleeping on a lumpy old
camping matress until our shipment arrives - what a pain in the neck -
literally.

We've bought a new car. A Puegeot 406 sw - I've not seen one before but
Mark had it chosen out long before we arrived in the UK. It's pretty flash
with the entire roof being glass !! Mark is on the lookout for Harley
Davidson number 6 but reckons he'll wait until the spring before actually
buying one, not too many weeks left of biking weather and seems pretty
pointless buying one just to keep in storage over the winter months - watch
this space.

Have met up with all the old crowd and have to say it feels so right. Our
time away was great, we don't regret it at all but the feeling of being
exactly where we should be for the time being is just so good. Mark left
for the rig this morning and at times like this in NZ I would be a basket
case, mooching around not knowing what to do. Today I'm feeling fine -
sorry to see him leave - but I don't have that 'mental' feeling. Mark has
admitted that he's enjoying being back more than he thought he would and
although he makes no bones about preferring to be in the southern hemisphere
he's fine about being here. To be honest - it really makes no difference
where we live as far as he's concerned as he's away so much.

The boys are great. Both will tell you that they're very happy to be back
home. They've 'fallen in' with thier old crowd of buddies and have also
made heaps of new mates too. Sorry to have to harp on about the old
education debate but now that I've seen & experienced both systems I have to
say that there's just no comparison. Even Mark has said that if for no
other reason, the education the boys are getting now makes the move more
than worth it - and that's saying something coming from him !! When they
started a few weeks back they both had to sit a maths test to determine what
group they should be placed in. It scared the be-jesus out of both of them
(and us). they were given questions that they simply didn't know how to
tackle - a million miles removed from the 2 digit additions they'd half
heartedly been shown how to do back in NZ. Obviously they failed miserably
(well, disasterously actually). However, a meeting with the teachers to
explain the situation and abit of extra tuition has worked wonders and they
are now catching up at the speed of light. A temporary blip which is
smoothing itself out. I guess if there was never any possibility of us
returning to the UK education would never have been an issue for us. All I
would ever say to anybody thinking of doing just a couple of years in NZ
with shcool age kids is to think long and hard about it - no matter what the
figures say, the facts are quite frightening. But I guess there's no 'one
size fits all' where schooling is concerned. Our kids are geared better
towards the UK system - obviously this will differ from family to family.
Here endeth my sermon on education.

(WOULDN'T FIT ON ONE POST - SEE PART 2)

[marcia]

As for me - well folks, I have to report that I'm still pinching myself
every morning as I wake. After teetering on the brink of insanity (yes -
really) I now feel like happiness is mine once more. A massive weight has
been lifted from my shoulders and the feeling of 'being in the right place'
is wonderful. I still maintain that there's good and bad everywhere you go
in the world. I agree that if I was living in one of the UK cities I would
have packed my bags and headed off running for the hills by now, but to be
fair the same can be said about any of NZ's cities too - or any city in the
world. Rightly or wrongly I make a point of not reading too many newspapers
and not watching too much of the news on telly and to be honest the world
goes on outside of my happy little world but from where I'm sitting at the
moment there's nothing to make me feel like the UK is going to the dogs. A
couple of weeks ago Mark and I went into Birmingham, we weren't mugged,
slashed, raped, assulted, robbed, abused, knifed or attacked in any way -
and when you consider that it's the UK's 2nd largest city I don't think
that's too bad. There were no threatening gangs of youths and to be honest,
those people who we came into direct contact with were nothing but friendly.
I guess until I actually experience this amazing crime wave that they say
is swamping the country I'll carry on believing all is good - like Mark
always says - perception is reality. To be honest I've been bowled over by
how friendly people are here, since moving into our new house 10 days ago
we've had all the immediate neighbours come to say hello, we've had
invitations, welcome cards and all kinds of acts of kindness shown us
................ a far cry from my experience in NZ. but I guess there's
always an exception to every rule eh.

However, when all is said and done I can honestly say I miss NZ heaps. But
to qualify that comment, it's the country I miss NOT my life there. Wild
horses wouldn't drag me back there to live under the same circumstances as
the last 2 years - no way !!!!!! But I miss the beaches, my quad bike, the
fish n chups, and a host of other things that make NZ unique. I'm looking
forward to our holiday next year I have to admit. And of course - I miss
all of you guys but that goes without saying. Mark and I were talking the
other day about when we return to the southern hemisphere and it looks
pretty likely that we won't be actually living in NZ. We've both decided
that OZ - far north Queensland to be exact - will be our place of choice. I
for one just can't stomach the idea of another NZ winter in a wooden house.
We all have Oz residencey so it will be an easy move. Anyway - we're
talking a few years down the line at this stage, we'll cross that bridge
when we get to it.

Oh by the way .... we've been having some cracking weather since getting
back. The last few days have started to turn chilly in the mornings and
evenins but still plenty of warm sunshine during the day - I've not actually
worn a fleece/coat yet. A couple of days ago I put the central heating on,
more to see how it worked than necessity ....... oh boy ... the whoosh as
the gas boiler kicked in was music to my ears. Our house is brick, double
glazed, cavity wall insulation ....... it's WARM !!!!!!!

And as a final note. Have been bombarded with a new lease of life and have
started walking 3 miles a day (very briskly) and have cut out all crap from
my diet and as a result I'm well on my way to losing my first stone
!!!!!!!!!!!! how brill is that????

Hey - I've tried to make a posting on the forum but everything keeps getting
lost. I see recently in the lounge a couple of people asked if anybody had
heard from me on my 'cheerio NZ' thread. Please feel free to cut n paste
any parts of this e-mail onto the thread so folks can get an update -
thanks.

OK, will be in touch again as soon as our lines of communication are up and
running. Hope this letter finds you all well and happy and living your own
particular dreams. This time round NZ wasn't for us .............. but
never say never. No regrets at all - just overwhelming happiness.

Lots of love to you all.

Diny & co xx

[Helsandfamily]

Thanks Marcia for posting that,

It is great to hear that all is well with Diny, look forward to having her back on the forum
:clap :clap

hels

[leachio]

Yeah thanks Marcia and Diny what an excellent post, it was for me avid reading and I cant wait to be waking up pinchin myself with that old happy feeling. Keep the posts coming u have been missed!!!

[Myrkk]

Lovely to see Diny is settling back in here quickly and that she is feeling happier.
18 people to meet her at the airport!! People must have wondered if someone famous was arriving :)

[Debbie P.]

All I would ever say to anybody thinking of doing just a couple of years in NZ with shcool age kids is to think long and hard about it - no matter what the figures say, the facts are quite frightening. But I guess there's no 'one size fits all' where schooling is concerned. Our kids are geared better towards the UK system - obviously this will differ from family to family. Here endeth my sermon on education.

I'm really pleased to hear Diny sounding so happy back in the UK. But I'm glad she made the above qualification regarding education. She's right - no 'one size fits all' exists, and there's no reason to suppose that the NZ education system won't fit other children well even though it didn't challenge her boys sufficiently.

It's good that her boys are getting on well, but my OH, as a teacher of 18 years, encounters fartoo many children who DON'T cope well with the UK education system - the constant assessment is FAR too stressful for them. And it makes life difficult for the teachers, forcing them to treat children like numbers, to be slotted into standard performance tables, rather than as individuals, with individual education needs. It sounds like Diny's 2 will respond well to that 'performance' pressure, but many children don't.

Also, we have met enough well-educated and well-rounded NZ adults here in the UK to make us think that the NZ system can't be a total disaster! I know one guy who is fast on his way to becoming a millionnaire, having patented a prototype lock, and another who works quite high up in the arts in London... so their schools couldn't have been particularly low-performing.

All I'm saying is "don't panic" if you've got school age children and are considering the move!

[gil]

Good point Debbie and one that I would endorse. :yes

As ever, a controversial post from Diny, even from afar! I am glad things have worked out well for you and the family Diny.

Gil

PS Just wanted to say that our son is in the early stages of diagnosis for tourettes so I didn't get much further than that point in your post.

[Lupin]

Fantastic post :clap

So glad Diny isn't planning on staying away from here for too long. :)

[stu70]

Diny, Very happy for you and your family. I am so glad your return trip went well. Hope to hear from you soon. Take care, all the best. Stu

[The Hodges]

Cheers Marcia for posting Diny's update.

Please tell her it was great to hear from her and we expect to read her first person comments soon.

[veronica]

I am really pleased its all back as it should be for the pair of you, but would like to say that I think the generalisations re the education en masse are a bit unfounded. NZ does have good schools too, perhaps the one that Dinys boys experienced wasn't too good but thats the only school they experienced here, and perhaps they are lucky that the one they are at in the UK is a good one, but not all schools are bad here and certainly not all schools in the UK are good.

Carry on enjoying the life back home, having been away will make you appreciate it all the more if you were unhappy here, with Diny having her family around her while mark is away must be a real boon, take care

[Moorf]

Mark and I were talking the
other day about when we return to the southern hemisphere and it looks
pretty likely that we won't be actually living in NZ. We've both decided
that OZ - far north Queensland to be exact - will be our place of choice.

Are you kidding? You did nothing but slate Oz and its inhabitants!! If I remember rightly you said you'd never live there again.... what's changed?

[Smiler]

So - where to begin? Guess I'll just do a run down of what's been happening
since we left NZ, sorry if I bore you - please feel free to skip any parts
that tip you over the edge.

The flight from HK to UK was hilarious due to the fact that the chap sitting
next to Henny had tourettes - not particularly 'pc' to laugh at him but hell
it was funny !!!!! Especially as he was speaking (shouting) Chinese.


I got that far and stopped, thats just plain nasty ! :mad:

Good luck back in the UK Diny, with that attitude you're going to need it.

[incredible hulse]

Thanks for posting, good to read a balanced view. Glad to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't think the UK is going to the dogs

[veronica]

hey I for one don't think the UK is going to the dogs, but it always amuses me when people say its a 'balanced view' when it happens to be what they agree with. does that mean they see themselves as more balanced than people who happen to hold opposing or different views to them.!!

[willsken]

Yes, I must be truly unbalanced cos I think the UK has been going to the dogs for years! :roll :D

[Smiler]

Yes, I must be truly unbalanced cos I think the UK has been going to the dogs for years! :roll :D


............and I'm off the scale :D

[incredible hulse]

hey I for one don't think the UK is going to the dogs, but it always amuses me when people say its a 'balanced view' when it happens to be what they agree with. does that mean they see themselves as more balanced than people who happen to hold opposing or different views to them.!!
Not at all. But if you read the original post again she clearly holds good memories of NZ and states what a good place to live it is, whilst also stating the virtues of the UK and her life there. That by definition I would call balanced rather than the all in one camp views that are often posted. Still what ever gives you your kicks I guess

[incredible hulse]

Yes, I must be truly unbalanced cos I think the UK has been going to the dogs for years! :roll :D I think I would if I had to live in Wales ;)

[willsken]

I am really pleased its all back as it should be for the pair of you, but would like to say that I think the generalisations re the education en masse are a bit unfounded. NZ does have good schools too, perhaps the one that Dinys boys experienced wasn't too good but thats the only school they experienced here, and perhaps they are lucky that the one they are at in the UK is a good one, but not all schools are bad here and certainly not all schools in the UK are good.


Veronica this is my point about the 2 education systems. I wrote a post on another thread today that we are more than happy here and it really comes down to what you come from and what you come to.

Matthew was in the top set at school in the UK and I though he was doing well enough. (Not a school lover but bright enough.... just don't make him do homework.) When we came over here I insisted he go into the top set as I was convinced he would be fine, as he'd been in the UK. He struggled on for the first term and was then moved down to set 2 as he was no where near the standard of the top set kids. Mortified mum (me:uhoh ) spends ages questioning the boy and I got in touch with a friend who taught in his school in the UK. The kids in his maths class were so badly behaved there was no surprise he had slipped behind. He is doing so much better over here. He is thriving in the "live and let live" atmosphere of the school here. He loves the fact there is so much else on at school other than "work".

There can't be right or wrong in this because every school is different, be it in the UK or here. Just because one person has a good/bad opinion of an education system, what you experience yourself is the only thing you know for sure.

[willsken]

I think I would if I had to live in Wales ;)

:D :D

[Sam B]

Hi Diny

Good to hear how you're doing - controversial as ever... I'm really glad the move has been right for you and you are happy and settled.

I am genuinely puzzled every time I read your thoughts on NZ education, as I have found the complete opposite to be true. My daughters attended a "good" (Offsted's word) school in Cornwall, and it was OK, but they are now absolutely thriving in their fantastic school in NZ, it was worth moving here for that alone. My elder daughter is unusually bright, and she is challenged for the first time. She gets loads of homework, her maths is too hard for me to do (she is 10) and she is just a different person, stimulated and happy. You must have been really unlucky with the particular school your sons went to I think.

Anyway, good to hear from you and glad it is all working out.

[willsken]

............and I'm off the scale :D

Nice specs Smiler..... same colour as I wear me thinks!! :D

[stu70]

Very interesting to read some people calling Diny's observations as controversial. Unlike many others who might complain but keep suffering, she had the courage to make a change when she felt her kids were not getting the education they deserve. What is so controversial about that? It would be plain dumb if she continued to live in a place where she thought the schools were crap. She has made it very clear that these were her experiences. If you don't like them, hey don't read. I would rather know both sides than be in dark. Cheers Diny for having the guts to post your thoughts. Good luck with everything.

[wiki]

Everyone deserves happiness, and Diny I'm very glad you've found yours again. There's no point staying anywhere where you're miserable - especially not when you're able to go somewhere that suits you better.

Congrats on such a happy return, and please keep us updated on how things are going back in the UK for you and the boys.

[Carol]

Good luck Diny......


I could never understand Diny's perception of the NZ system either.
To be fair - I've never come across a school here - either as a parent or a teacher - that I haven't thought "wow" about!
(And that is a pretty big sample!!)

In fact SOME schools - I would give my right arm to be in "zone" in. Particularly .....Summerlands, Tahati Coast and Selwyn Ridge. And one in Mangere (yes you read that right!!) that I cant remember the name of but was astonishing in the attitude that was fostered by those kids.
But that's an aside....

Also - it is very obvious that Diny had the resources to be able to make the decision to go back. Not everyone has that luxury!
And that alone MAY have just been enough to convince her that a move back to the UK was within easy reach.

Like Helen... I am also puzzled by the newfound Aussie love.
:confused:

Having met Diny's lovely mum and dad - I can also understand why they were all there to meet her.

That is the thing I miss most about being in NZ. My family.
BUT.......

On Saturday "my hasband and I" (said in the best royal accent lol - and I can honestly say I DO NOT miss the royals!) are hosting a party for our silver wedding anniversary. :nice1:eek:we are getting old!!!

We have 50 guests coming. (And 10 who were invited but couldn't make it)
They are some of the most special people I have had the good fortune to meet. Some English. Some NZers. A swede. A couple of maori descent. An aussie. A scot EVEN a mackem!!! (lol - god love him!) Some teens. Some older than us. Some gay - most straight.
All in all - a great bunch of people. Whom we are honored to call our friends.
6 of them are from this forum.


While I would give my right arm (I'd need another one of course...) to have my family here - it cant be done.I went back in April to see them for that reason.

I have had many many moments living here where I WOULD have gone back - given the right circumstances and of course the money.
But most days - I'm SO glad we stayed....
Nowhere is perfect.
There are a few places and pockets in the world though.
Glad you've found your wee space Diny.
:cheers

[Lupin]

Beautiful, beautiful post Carol :)

Stu, I doubt Diny would mind her post being referred to as controversial!

I couldn't disagree more with your education observations Diny, but they are yours to make. My eldest daughter had some blah test just before we left and we were a little concerned to find she was just in the 'gifted' bracket on several areas and exceptionally able in all others. I'm not joking here, the standard of the academic work in her NZ school far outstrips the UK one (and she had actually attended 3 UK schools....2 beacon schools). Your experience of NZ education compared with mine only proves to me that the 'one size fits all' UK approach is so deeply, deeply flawed. Clearly in NZ they attended a school that did not suit them and you are fortunate that the UK approach does suit them :)

Smiler: laughed and laughed at your new avatar. Hope it's here to stay ( and you are too!) :)

[jubjub]

Nice to hear you made it back, and that you are happy, after all thats whats important.

[Carol]

And one in Mangere (yes you read that right!!) that I cant remember the name of but was astonishing in the attitude that was fostered by those kids.




Have remembered.......
http://www.viscount.school.nz/

TRULY the most amazing school I have ever set foot in anywhere around the world...
and it's VERY "Decile 1"

[veronica]

hey Carol good post there, getting away from the education system it is so true that Family is important and I am pleased for Diny and all the others who have gone back and are happy.
I have been backwards and forwards between the UK and the southern hemisphere several times so am a bit of a nomad. I've suffered and survived homesickness, I have gone back to the UK and been happy to do that and also returned to the southern hemisphere and been happy to do that to. I have enjoyed everyplace we have lived and wouldn't change any of it and I am still not 100% sure where we will be in 10 years time, depends on our kids to a large extent.
I am neither pro or anti UK or pro or anti nz or oz although I have learnt not to make definitive statements as sometimes you find you have to eat your words. Like the others who have commented on Dinys comments on perhaps returning to OZ I was a tad surprised as I have an Australian daughter and have at times in the past found her comments/generalisations on australia and australians offensive. Pretty much the same as the education thing we all have different experiences and its wrong to generalise.
For all of those who feel they need to go back do it but keep your options open and an open mind cos life has a way throwing curve balls at you that changes things.

[marcia]

NZ does have good schools too, perhaps the one that Dinys boys experienced wasn't too good but thats the only school they experienced here,

My boys go to the same school, we had a few problems at first with the boys not been challenged enough on their maths, it was far too easy for them, but i took in papers they had been working on in the uk, had a chat to the teachers, and they are now working them much harder, even getting year 9 stuff for our eldest (he's year 7) to have a go at along with another boy in his class who is very capable.

Our boys represented their years in a mathex competition, they've done the inter schools cross country.

The school has won awards as well.

But it just didn't work for Diny's boys. We agreed to disagree on the education side!

I also think your ideas of a good NZ education, may differ depending where you were in the country,what type of school your kids went to, where it was in the league tables (ha ha!) and what you felt about the uk education system. We felt the kids were pushed far too hard (but we still want them to be challenged so they don't get demotivated!) too many tests and working on old SATS papers for a full year to prepare isn't my idea of a good education!

I love the way the kids here do a lot more sport and outdoor activities, my boys have just written and presented speechs, the whole school took part in the production on stage, something they never did in the uk, its all confidence building.

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with Diny's post - all she is doing is giving her perceptions and feelings, please don't let this get into of those threads trying to say a persons thoughts or feeling are wrong. You can shout at someone till you are blue in the face to try and make them change the way they think, but how pointless is it?

We should respect others views, and agree to disagree at times for th sake of peace! :)

[peebles16]

Great and very balanced post Marcia as was Diny's I have to say. Am still in the UK (Christchurch very soon we hope) and really am benefiting from the honest, straight up postings here so thanks for that. We really need to hear every one's experiences not just the rose tinted ones - lovely though they are!!
Karen

[willsken]

But it just didn't work for Diny's boys. We agreed to disagree on the education side!

And in the end that's all it's about really, isn't it? On a forum like this, no way do we all agree what good or bad, in either the UK or here. It comes down to personal expectations and experiences. Diny has every right to make her feelings about her boys education clear on here but then it must also, for the sake of others making the same journey we've already made, be an extremely positive thing to hear other peoples opinions as well. :yes

Good luck to Diny and her boys. I'm very glad to hear they have back what is so important to them in life.

[willsken]

We really need to hear every one's experiences not just the rose tinted ones - lovely though they are!!
Karen

I'm sorry Karen, if I'm taking this the wrong way but I live here, teach here and have children in the education system. How are my views, (and any others) just because they aren't negative "rose tinted"? :confused:

[Carol]

Well...I know mine aren't.
I'm all too aware of the downside of living here.
But my experiences of NZ education are not part of that.
And like Nicola - I see it from many angles.

This debate goes around and around and around and around....
(the whole "positive opinions" being seen as rose tinted.
and the other side of the coin being "refreshing")

At the end of the day - anyone emigrating is taking a HUGE chance that it is all going to work out for them. We've all done it. Some of us it has worked for. Some of us it hasn't.

You can only talk about your own experiences. No-one has time to be on here telling fibs or painting the whole place with glowing references.

If it's useful to you - great.
If not - so be it.

There were many parts of NZ life that I know Diny enjoyed.
Were they rose tinted too?
:roll

[aberdian]

A swede. A couple of maori descent. An aussie. A scot EVEN a mackem!!! (lol - god love him!)
Say it ain't so.....a mackem?!

Have a great time but lock up your silver (and everything else) :)

[Sam B]

Stu - I referred to Diny's post as controversial for 2 reasons.

1) Because it was provoking debate (as she always does) which I see as a positive by the way.

2) Because of her comments about the Tourette's syndrome incident.

I certainly was not trying to say that merely stating that things about NZ are not 100% positive is being controversial. I much prefer a balanced forum and welcome posts like Diny's.

[peebles16]

Nicola
Think you are taking it the wrong way but maybe just my phrasing of it - just meant that everyone's experiences are really helpful for me to hear! Good, bad, positive, negative all of it is all good - maybe I need to remove 'rose tinted' from my vocabulary!!

Didn't mean to offend
Sorry Karen

[Moorf]

maybe I need to remove 'rose tinted' from my vocabulary

Maybe we should all remove it :yes I think it rubs some people up the wrong way - it does me! Why? Because, on this forum, it seems to have been used in a way that means anyone who sees things thru rose-tinted specs is ignoring or blanking out "bad stuff" when, in fact, it's quite possible to live here and love it.

Diny's always been straight up about what she thinks, and we all appreciate it in varying degrees :roll , but we always end up in this RTS debate and it's getting tiresome!!

[willsken]

Nicola
Think you are taking it the wrong way but maybe just my phrasing of it - just meant that everyone's experiences are really helpful for me to hear! Good, bad, positive, negative all of it is all good - maybe I need to remove 'rose tinted' from my vocabulary!!

Didn't mean to offend
Sorry Karen

No offense taken Karen. :) It's just a lot of people move to NZ and love the experience. I was only talking to another POM today and we can't believe how many of us live in this small town alone. In fact in just my school POMs = Head of Maths, head of science, head of drama, head of computing (me :uhoh ), special needs teacher, plus another 6 teachers, all happy here and don't want to go back. Most of them were completely disillusioned with the UK education system. All agree they prefer teaching out here. None of them use forums. It's not an unusual thing to find people here that have made the move from the UK and love the lifestyle they have found in NZ. The problem for me is that many times in the past, on this forum, people who try to post about the fact they are happy are either accused of wearing rose tinted glasses or not allowing people who aren't happy to have an opinion. For me that's just not the case. I'm happy to see negative posts and just as happy to see people who have different, more positive experiences to tell things how they see it. :yes

[veronica]

There are lots of us here who are quite realistic about NZ, didn't leave the UK cos they wanted to get out of the place and are still happy with what they see and are doing, its quite amazing how many of us here are happy and wearing clear specs.

But that doesn't mean that we feel that others have to reach the same degree of happiness as we have, I for one totally respect and will support where I can those who are unhappy, but I dont like to hear some of the criticisms that I feel are as more generated by a persons perception of things as actual facts and like most people I have little tolerance for whingers and moaners. By that I am not talking about people having a rant about something thats got to them or people who are desperately unhappy and missing families but more the 'well its not the same/as good as home' sort, course its not, its another bl**dy country thats why we have all come here isn't it. I haven't put the UK there as POMS definately don't corner the market in whinging. what I find difficult is those who want to leave home and pull the place apart with criticism and knock it, and those who want to go back to home and find everything thats wrong with the kiwis and the way of life here and start blaming their failure to settle on 'here'. Some people bring their problems with them and are going to be unhappy wherever. others just seem to have a run of things happen that just prevent them settling.

Diny's experience here is vastly different to lots of us, particularly with Mark being away so much and I totally respect her for doing what she thinks is right for her and the boys, I am pleased for her that being home is everything she wants. I feel the same for all those who want to return, I have been there and done it myself, just allow us who feel things are better here the right to speak of being content as you are in your discontent.

[Lupin]

Nicola, I'm glad you've met loads of happy emigrants too. I honestly think the balance of posts here on this forum often doesn't represent the numbers of happy people I meet here from overseas. I have a theory about this, but it may not be a popular one. :exit

Time and again the people unhappy here are actually quite well off (they may think they aren't compared to their UK wages, but in Kiwi terms are) and yet out and about living my life I meet happy chippies, sparkies, painter and decorators, care professionals etc, etc. The POMs I meet in Havelock North owning homes outright complain that they're bored, shopping is rubbish, etc, etc. And then I meet people living in middling areas of Hastings and Napier with mortgages and perhaps a little leg up from UK savings and they're perfectly happy. This will likely be the most controversial post I've made as yet, but in some ways I don't think it helps to come over here with a great big wadge of GBP, buy the biggest, flashest house and then feel 'out of place'. That's not to say I wouldn't have been thrilled to bring over a mint and buy me a massive house :D But there are some advantages in being in a more middling socio-economic group. It's well reported that less well off communities are often more close knit and that affluent suburbs can be lonely places :(

I love it here. I don't have rose tinted spectacles at all. I'm well known for not suffering fools gladly, for being intolerant and for having a tendancy toward pessimism, but honestly, saying it as I find it, New Zealand is gorgeous, the people couldn't be more friendly or welcoming and with a little application and realism you can achieve the stuff of dreams here :)

[Lupin]

what I find difficult is those who want to leave home and pull the place apart with criticism and knock it, and those who want to go back to home and find everything thats wrong with the kiwis and the way of life here and start blaming their failure to settle on 'here'. Some people bring their problems with them and are going to be unhappy wherever. others just seem to have a run of things happen that just prevent them settling.

One of those totally brilliant posts that pops up here from time to time. :cheers

[willsken]

OK, my theory as to why there seems to be an imbalance on here compared to the people I meet in real life is...If you are unhappy, for whatever reason, be it missing family, struggling financially, not being able to make friend etc etc you are more likely to try and find support from others. Forums are a great place to find that support. I realise that there are many happy forumites on here living in NZ but I still think the imbalance of happy/unhappy people actually living in NZ already, is not representative of the folk I've actually met out there. Many members that just drift away and don't post any more or who post rarely are more likely to be the settled and happy ones. I know I post a lot less now than I did and once the holidays are over and I go back to work next week, I'll no doubt drift off again! Just my observation..... shoot away!! :exit

[Tia Maria]

Willsken wrote:
OK, my theory as to why there seems to be an imbalance on here compared to the people I meet in real life is...If you are unhappy, for whatever reason, be it missing family, struggling financially, not being able to make friend etc etc you are more likely to try and find support from others. Forums are a great place to find that support.

Yes, I totally agree with this! Also people in 'real life' are less likely to talk about their worries and stresses face to face as this is just not comfortable for most people especially with new friendships so forums provide a perfect place for this.

Moorf wrote:

but we always end up in this RTS debate

RTS and PC probably two of my least favourite forum phrases which I try to never use, oh I just did! :p

If I had to say one of the main reasons for us staying in NZ at the moment it would definitely be the school my son attends. I can only comment on his primary school but it really is fantastic! :nice1

Cheers

Tia

[aberdian]

I've just had my light switched on :) Or half on anyway. I now know what RTS is, but still don't know what PC (beyond the obvious politically correct) is. Enlighten me?

As someone who'll be moving soon, it's good to see some positive NZ school thoughts. When you're moving, it's always the negatives you fix on, but this has been a shot in the arm for me/us. No doubt, tucked away in other threads there are more of the marvellous school comments but its ones like Dinys which stick (not that I want anyone to stop posting things like that, it's more a comment on the reader than the writer!)

Anyways, thanks.

[Carey]

Have remembered.......
http://www.viscount.school.nz/

TRULY the most amazing school I have ever set foot in anywhere around the world...
and it's VERY "Decile 1"

This sounds amazing, most interesting. Would love to see it in person. A good eg. of a low decile school not meaning a low acheiving school.

A contrast to some schools in Uk!

[peebles16]

OKay, okay I get it promise to remove RTS from my vocabulary and never use again! :yes
Karen

[K&CS]

OK, my theory as to why there seems to be an imbalance on here compared to the people I meet in real life is...If you are unhappy, for whatever reason, be it missing family, struggling financially, not being able to make friend etc etc you are more likely to try and find support from others. Forums are a great place to find that support. I realise that there are many happy forumites on here living in NZ but I still think the imbalance of happy/unhappy people actually living in NZ already, is not representative of the folk I've actually met out there. Many members that just drift away and don't post any more or who post rarely are more likely to be the settled and happy ones. I know I post a lot less now than I did and once the holidays are over and I go back to work next week, I'll no doubt drift off again! Just my observation..... shoot away!! :exit

I've definitely found that to be the case too. I don't come on here so often anymore (certainly not like I did in my early days) as I'm happy and settled and don't really think I have anything particularly valid to add anymore as timings for immigration and shippers etc are all a distant memory now (thank goodness). I also know quite a few Brits and other immigrants and not one has ever even heard of an immigration forum, let alone been on one which maybe shows that forums such as these aren't that representative of immigrants in general? I'm not sure.

I agree that the RTS reference is tiresome and one I've never really understood. Surely you look back on somewhere you've left with RTSs rather than the place you are currently living? And if you do look on where you currently live through RTSs, then that must surely be a better thing than searching for things not to like?

Anyway, this has gone off topic. Glad to hear that all is going well for Diny and anyone else who has returned. At the end of the day, all that really matters is your happiness!

Kate x

[incredible hulse]

Nicola, I'm glad you've met loads of happy emigrants too. I honestly think the balance of posts here on this forum often doesn't represent the numbers of happy people I meet here from overseas. I have a theory about this, but it may not be a popular one.
Time and again the people unhappy here are actually quite well off (they may think they aren't compared to their UK wages, but in Kiwi terms are) and yet out and about living my life I meet happy chippies, sparkies, painter and decorators, care professionals etc, etc. The POMs I meet in Havelock North owning homes outright complain that they're bored, shopping is rubbish, etc, etc. And then I meet people living in middling areas of Hastings and Napier with mortgages and perhaps a little leg up from UK savings and they're perfectly happy. This will likely be the most controversial post I've made as yet, but in some ways I don't think it helps to come over here with a great big wadge of GBP, buy the biggest, flashest house and then feel 'out of place'. That's not to say I wouldn't have been thrilled to bring over a mint and buy me a massive house :D But there are some advantages in being in a more middling socio-economic group. It's well reported that less well off communities are often more close knit and that affluent suburbs can be lonely places :(

I love it here. I don't have rose tinted spectacles at all. I'm well known for not suffering fools gladly, for being intolerant and for having a tendancy toward pessimism, but honestly, saying it as I find it, New Zealand is gorgeous, the people couldn't be more friendly or welcoming and with a little application and realism you can achieve the stuff of dreams here :)

Great post and I tend to agree with the outcome if not the reason behind it - Haven't got time to go into it now but hope to later after work.

Couple of things I'd like to add quickly however are
a) This is the leaving NZ section and as such the views are likely to have a less positive spin. I think it is a case of having to accept posts as such
b) There is a topic in another section asking for solely positive stories - this is quite obviously an "unbalanced" post but doesn't seem to be generating the same debate about specs ;). Again I think this needs to be viewed in the same accepting light as here
c) I must say some of the views I read on here differ from what I encounter but this is both in a positive and negative perspective of NZ. I have put this down to most posters on here tend to have been in NZ a short period of time or looking to move and are at the honeymoon/justification period. That is not meant in a slight to anyone it just marries with some of the stages I have gone through in this moving lark (I don't profess to being an old hand by the way !)

At the end of the day this is a forum and is likely to generate debate and differing views. I personally think this is one of the most pro-NZ forums out there so am surprised by the apparent preception that it is being overrun by negative posters

[Tia Maria]

aberdian wrote:

I now know what RTS is, but still don't know what PC (beyond the obvious politically correct) is. Enlighten me?

Yep, PC = Politically Correct, that's all I meant. I just feel the term is maybe overused/misused a lot these days.

Wikipedia probably sums it up best:

Political correctness (PC or politically correct) is a term used to describe language, ideas, policies, or behaviour seen as seeking to minimize offence to racial, cultural, or other identity groups.

The term itself and its usage are hotly contested. The term "political correctness" is used almost exclusively in a pejorative sense.[1][2] Those who use the term in a critical fashion often express a concern that public discourse, academia, and the sciences have been dominated by excessive liberal viewpoints.[3]

Some commentators, usually on the political left, have argued that the term "political correctness" is a straw man invented by the New Right to discredit progressive social change, especially around issues of race and gender.[1][4][2]

Full link here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Its just one of those terms that is open to a whole range of interpretation and as its often used negatively and in a lazy fashion with people preferring to use terms like 'PC gone mad' rather than actually discussing the issues.

But I'm probably the only person who it irritates so much! :laugh

Cheers

Tia

[hball]

I also tend to agree with Lupin77...

"This will likely be the most controversial post I've made as yet, but in some ways I don't think it helps to come over here with a great big wadge of GBP, buy the biggest, flashest house and then feel 'out of place'. That's not to say I wouldn't have been thrilled to bring over a mint and buy me a massive house But there are some advantages in being in a more middling socio-economic group. It's well reported that less well off communities are often more close knit and that affluent suburbs can be lonely places"

..and I've noticed that quite a few of those who have posted on the 'Positve Stories' thread arrived here with very little financial security, us included.

My take on it is that having initally had this crazy idea about emigrating - the fun part - you then move into stress mode - the will they let us/won't they let us bit - and this is followed by the target or goal mode.

Landing in NZ is obviously the culmination of that goal, however for some a new goal is immediately identified; one called 'survival' and this is where there seems to be a parting of the ways. By necessity some immigrants will have to set new goals and those who have posted on this subject and have done so seem to be thriving on the challenge, even though it can be a bumpy ride. Others may be having difficulties as even though they are in the comfort zone of having the lifestyle they were hoping to find, without that drive they may be simply in the 'now what???' stage, which can be very disheartening.

Just a thought!

[Moorf]

I also think the "reasons" behind someone's move are very relevant to their likelihood of staying. I've been referred to as a "typical" UK immigrant - with stereotypical "want a simpler life" expectations and a knowledge that product choice, incomes and way of life would be challenging and difficult in NZ at times. I'd agree with that wholeheartedly, that's us all over.

However, there's a new breed of immigrant coming over, imho, they've been coming for years but recently I believe it's been on the increase. They are looking to better their lifestyles by using huge capital from property sold abroad to "buy" their life in NZ because they can't afford it in the UK/wherever (probably another unpopular view).

They seem to think that NZ will be the UK/USA etc, except a zillion times better, and despite it being halfway round the globe, can get quite hung up about certain brands and products not being available, processes and fees at banks and businesses being "different" or being treated differently. Would you expect the same if you moved to Korea or Peru? No, but because it's a white and English speaking country it seems we expect the standards and practices of our home countries if UK/USA etc. That's always struck me as strange behaviour! Perhaps it's because we've travelled more than we can slot in easier?

So ultimately I don't think it's all about money, I know plenty of well off people here (us not included), who are very happy and just as many who have taken their lifestyles down a peg or two who are equally as happy (that'll be us!) - I think perhaps it's the attitude at the end of the day, you've got to be happy with your lot, even if it's not-a-lot, and don't expect anyone here to give a hoot what you earn/drive/wear/eat... here they just base it on your attitude....

I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with Lupin or not :laugh I think I am, I meant to...

[dharder]

But I'm probably the only person who it irritates so much!


Nope, you are definitely not. Along with the overuse (and incorrect use) of 'literally,' this is one of my (granted, numerous) pet hates.

Daniela

[Sam B]

Yes, I've been mulling over the idea proposed by Lupin, and I'm not convinced I've seen evidence for it just being about how much money you've got, I'm more inclined to think that Moorf is right about attitude. We did well out of our house sale in Cornwall, and we have been able to buy outright and have a bit left over, but that was not why we came. We wanted a simpler life, less crowds etc, and I think Moorf is so right in saying, some people seem to expect it to be just like the UK for goods and services but better - I have met a few whingers who were just like this. It seems to be across a range of people, regardless of how much money they had, although I suppose more wealthy people may have higher expectations in general. Anyway, I think it is about expectations and attitude too. But I don't mean this to apply to people in difficult circumstances, or those who are very homesick, more for the grumblers if you know what I mean,

That wasn't very coherent, sorry.

[K&CS]

Yes, I hate 'PC gone mad' too! I think it's an excuse to say anything offensive and joke that it isn't 'PC'. Would some people really prefer it if we went back to how things were in the 60s???

I think we're starting to over analyse things a bit too much (actually is that a correct use of words?). Rich or poor - some people emigrate successfully from one country to another and others don't. There is no 'one size fits all'!

And this is even less coherent than the pp!

[Lupin]

Ah, well I don't think that's the only reason people fail to settle here! However people who come with a lot of money tend to have high expectations of the lifestyle they're going to buy. I remember reading I think it was Jo-someone-or-other's thread about returning home from a fairly short spell in NZ because she broke down one day realising that she'd have the big beautiful house but no family to fill it. My point wasn't that the minted are all whingers and don't settle! But that I have observed a pattern of people who don't settle here despite having enormous wealth (in Kiwi terms). You really can't buy happiness. I remember reading a lot of threads about people 'struggling' here and Nicola and I both admitting to feeling concerned because people with greater incomes and smaller mortgages than we planned on having were unhappy and finding it 'impossible to survive'. That sort of post is really off putting to the lower income emigrant. What I realise now I'm here is that it is more about expectation than wealth and infact coming here with a lot of money can result in high expectations, rather than more modest realistic ones. Don't come here to live mortgage free imagining that that alone will bring the lifestyle you desire because NZ really, really is the other side of the world from Blighty and is culturally very different, despite some outwards similarities.

I would rather have brought enough money to fund our house build outright definitely, but not doing so has been no hamper to my success (so far) in settling here! :)

[Lupin]

Yes, I hate 'PC gone mad' too! I think it's an excuse to say anything offensive and joke that it isn't 'PC'. Would some people really prefer it if we went back to how things were in the 60s???

I can't find where anyone posted that they disliked the phrase "PC gone mad" on this thread, but I wholeheartedly agree with you K&CS.

I've never thought the UK "PC gone mad".

ETA: Sorry it was Tia and her excellent Wiki quote :o

[Lupin]

I also think the "reasons" behind someone's move are very relevant to their likelihood of staying. I've been referred to as a "typical" UK immigrant - with stereotypical "want a simpler life" expectations and a knowledge that product choice, incomes and way of life would be challenging and difficult in NZ at times. I'd agree with that wholeheartedly, that's us all over.

However, there's a new breed of immigrant coming over, imho, they've been coming for years but recently I believe it's been on the increase. They are looking to better their lifestyles by using huge capital from property sold abroad to "buy" their life in NZ because they can't afford it in the UK/wherever (probably another unpopular view).

They seem to think that NZ will be the UK/USA etc, except a zillion times better, and despite it being halfway round the globe, can get quite hung up about certain brands and products not being available, processes and fees at banks and businesses being "different" or being treated differently. Would you expect the same if you moved to Korea or Peru? No, but because it's a white and English speaking country it seems we expect the standards and practices of our home countries if UK/USA etc. That's always struck me as strange behaviour! Perhaps it's because we've travelled more than we can slot in easier?

So ultimately I don't think it's all about money, I know plenty of well off people here (us not included), who are very happy and just as many who have taken their lifestyles down a peg or two who are equally as happy (that'll be us!) - I think perhaps it's the attitude at the end of the day, you've got to be happy with your lot, even if it's not-a-lot, and don't expect anyone here to give a hoot what you earn/drive/wear/eat... here they just base it on your attitude....

I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with Lupin or not :laugh I think I am, I meant to...

I think you are, but you're saying it much clearer than I :laugh

[K&CS]

I can't find where anyone posted that they disliked the phrase "PC gone mad" on this thread, but I wholeheartedly agree with you K&CS.

I've never thought the UK "PC gone mad".

No, you're right, I don't think anyone did say that, but bear in mind I'd consumed the best part of a bottle of wine when I typed that so reading it back, I'm quite impressed that I was able to type at all lol!

[willsken]

No, you're right, I don't think anyone did say that, but bear in mind I'd consumed the best part of a bottle of wine when I typed that so reading it back, I'm quite impressed that I was able to type at all lol!

I'm impressed as well!! :laugh :laugh :laugh

[jonSE]

What's RTS?

Elvis Presley immediately sprung to mind "RTS address unknown".

I think the reason that some returnees have negative views is that for whatever reason their move didn't work out and understandably they aren't happy about that (read depressed) In that frame of mind it is difficult to be positive about anything.

We only left NZ for career opportunities that just weren't available in NZ (A function of one of us being in a very minority career) , in retrospect we probably had a rose tinted view of the opportunities when we moved to NZ. Do we regret moving to NZ - no, our only regret is that there weren't the opportunities that would have permited us to stay.

Back to the "literary" thread one of the few things that did annoy me about NZ (and OZ now for that matter) is the use of the made up word "eventuate". Every time I proof read reports at work this crops up and I am fed up of pointing out that the word they are searching for is "happen". When did you last hear someone say "**** eventuates"

[Smiler]

What's RTS?

Hi Jon

RTS = Rose Tinted Spectacles, apparently some immigrants come with them already installed.

I hope you've settled and are doing well in Oz. Your possum sig still makes me laugh (and shudder) I know how true it is...............

[Soon2baKiwi]

I haven't been on here for a couple of months and didn't know that Diny was going back. We arrived here around the same time - both of us married to Kiwis - I suppose I felt an affinity even though we were never very close.

Diny, your life was great before you got here - I hope you enjoy it all the more for being away.

As for the education thing - I don't have kids here but I have always thought that Diny had a different viewpoint to her boys' education than was the norm and I suspect this might be true even in the UK. No matter what, I hope you end up with two beautiful young men. My son is going to be 26 next month and he's turned into a man while I haven't been looking, over the last two years. It's sort of sad that I haven't been around to see it happening but at the same time he's doing so well that I just feel wonderfully proud of him. I hope you get to feel the same - my OH says awesome is an awfully big word but in this case it's apt.

Good luck to all of you. I hope you'll be very, very happy.