[benandclare]

:yes
I can nod to this one - our cat was fatally poisoned, and the one next door was made badly ill by the farmer on the back field spraying something nasty on his crops.

(Still reading through this conversation!!)

Oh do so sorry to hear that, which chemical was it ?

[ourquest]

I would say to most people thinking to come here and live, you will most likely end up with a lower standard of living but hopefully a better quality of life.

I would have to defend this observation because it is a reasonable summary based on the thousands of posts on this site. Whilst it is obviously true that some people have succeeded in achieving an improvement on both counts, his certainly isn't a foregone conclusion and I would probably also use this quote as advice, even though my own situation might be different.

For what it's worth, our own situation is somewhat different in that we find it hard to differentiate between standard and quality of life...they are either related or irrelevant depending on how we feel on a day. Our own approach to the material stuff has been to make sure that there are aspects of our house that are better, aspects of our car(s) that are better, aspects of our neighbourhood that are better. This way, we will never feel that we have taken a backward step even if there are some specifics that we have to do without.

It is all about adaptation. Some people really feel out of place when things change around them and this leads them to feel that their own standards have dropped, even though it might be a lateral move. There are others who are so thankful to have the slow pace of life, freedom, space etc that anything else pales into insignificance. The most successful settlers are probably those that just pick up where they left off and enjoy the journey, without feeling the need to define it in either words or money.

[winka]

Had to look at drug offense stats as I’m sad with nothing better to do. :p As usual stats seem to have a habit of skewing things. It seems to my untrained eye lack of population has a terrible effect of the outcome of reality.

Top 12 countries for drugs and their total populations.

1 Norway: 987.1 per 100,000 people (4,722,676)
#2 Switzerland: 648.4 per 100,000 people (7,508,700)
#3 New Zealand: 641.6 per 100,000 people (4,239,600)
#4 United States: 560.1 per 100,000 people (303,321,825)
#5 Belgium: 448.7 per 100,000 people (10,457,000)
#6 Thailand: 428.9 per 100,000 people (62,828,706)
#7 Sweden: 349.9 per 100,000 people (9,150,000)
#8 Germany: 297.3 per 100,000 people (82,314,900)
#9 Canada: 285.5 per 100,000 people (33,052,864)
#10 Iceland: 277.9 per 100,000 people (312,851)
#11 Finland: 259.7 per 100,000 people (5,297,300)
#12 United Kingdom: 214.3 per 100,000 people (60,587,300)
#13 Ireland: 190.2 per 100,000 people (4,301,000)

Norway and Switzerland hardly strike you as the drug capitals of the world. :exit

Youre correct that stats often give a wierd look on things.

I find it funny that new zealand, norway and switzerland top this list.

NZ in particular is a marijuana country and maybe some 'p' in the north island being a problem.
Australia, do you have any idea how much easier it is to get hold of heroin cocaine,ecstasy or any hard drugs there?
10x easier than NZ,Norway or switzerland.

I would seriously take those stats with a grain of salt.

NZs drug problem is also chicken feed compared to the UK.
Same goes for the violence.
Ive lost count of the murder spots here in north london I pass on my way to work each day.

[winka]

Anyway I think people in general should not think of New Zealand as some lost paradise, its still inhabited by humans and we humans dont half know how to mess things up! :laugh

High flyers also, if youre on £100kpa in your london/tokyo/singabore job then surely youre bright enough to realise NZ doesnt have the business,consumers and population to support a similar level to what you may be used to.
Its a lifestyle move,anyone that loses sight of that key factor needs to reassess what theyre doing.

We cant wait to get out of london and are leaving behind high paying jobs even though both of us are in our very early thirties, the standard of living here in london is rubbish!
Houses sandwiched together all looking over/into each others derelict looking little backyards.
Hoodies with aggro dogs on virtually every corner.
All the local schools seem to be full of scary 'mini adults' (11 year olds who have grown hard and tough waaaay too soon) due to living in london.
Catching the bus can be a frightening experience in london, if its not the kids trying to intimidate adults or blasting mobile phone music and daring you to say something.
Tube to work?? in summer it is officailly hotter on the tube than is allowed by law for transportation of livestock under EU law.
Gotta love being wedged in a sardine can and having a random strangers armpit in your face 30 mins after leaving home.
Driving in london is more hassle than its worth so most people dont, return to bus and tube as mentioned.

Its all different strokes for different folks I guess!
Lots of 'foreigners' come to and love NZ/UK/USA etc.
Some miss family too much or find it too different and then leave.

We all have different aspirations and things we love and hate etc.

[DizzyF]

Just wanted to say we moved from the UK and have found that while we have a lower income we do have a better standard of living than we ever had in London. We have only been here 8 weeks and are living in Auckland in a modern large duplex with plenty of room, beaches 10 mins away and the cost of living is ok. We can easily eat out (Japanese food is so cheap!) and clothes are about the same price. We were expecting to feel less well off financially but this has not happened.

[bobo]

Youre correct that stats often give a wierd look on things.

I find it funny that new zealand, norway and switzerland top this list.

NZ in particular is a marijuana country and maybe some 'p' in the north island being a problem.
Australia, do you have any idea how much easier it is to get hold of heroin cocaine,ecstasy or any hard drugs there?
10x easier than NZ,Norway or switzerland.

I would seriously take those stats with a grain of salt.

NZs drug problem is also chicken feed compared to the UK.
Same goes for the violence.
Ive lost count of the murder spots here in north london I pass on my way to work each day.

I love the phrase “some 'p' in the north island being a problem”. I think that it is much more of an issue than that, have not met anyone (kiwi or migrant) that has this opinion. I would like to know how you came about a 10x easier to buy drugs in OZ that the other 3 countries. Have you try to buy hard drugs, in various cities in all 4 of these countries? If so then I will accept your research.

It may be helpful to look at the whole of the UK when you refer to its drug, violence rates and not just extrapolate those of North London. I can imagine that it may seem very different.

Personally being from Dundee Scotland, I feel (no facts or figures) NZ has a large crime problem, much worse than I had expected. But as with most of these things you are normally unaffected by this as random murders are still relatively uncommon, and I don’t walk the streets anymore in the early hours, don’t take drugs etc.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-reported-crime-rates.html

[AlastairUK]

I would say to most people thinking to come here and live, you will most likely end up with a lower standard of living but hopefully a better quality of life.

I'm not quite sure what is meant by a lower standard of living with a better quality of life? You only have outdoor toilets but at least it's always sunny?

Just expanding on my post a bit :) I've lived in many different countries for short term or slightly longer term - although I plan to make NZ very long term! - other places are not the UK.

So the quality of tv or broadband or choice of shoes might not be up with that of the UK, when I move to NZ, I don't plan to be staying indoors enough to care too much about tv or broadband internet. I might as well stay in the UK if that was the case. NZ is a stunning country and what it lacks in tv and shoes, it makes up for in other activities that is simply not available back in the UK.

Obviously your lifestyle requirements are different to mine and your giving an example of 17 year olds being drunk behind the wheel of a car and only getting a fine, you could give examples of farcical judgements in the UK till the cows (or sheep) come home. Is anywhere perfect? No, obviously not.

If shoes, internet and tv, and what people smoke in their own home has a drastic effect on your lifestyle then from what you describe, NZ might not be the ideal place for you. How about everything else NZ has to offer?

I could give you a list as long as my arm of problems back here in the UK that is making me up sticks and leave. For me, it's a terrible place to live and I can't wait to see the back of it. I just wish my friends/family would come with!

[debnjohn]

I'm not quite sure what is meant by a lower standard of living with a better quality of life? You only have outdoor toilets but at least it's always sunny?

My interpretation would be comparing possessions with happiness, or material versus spiritual gains. Outdoor or indoor facilities arn't the issue, it's more to do with how contented you feel when you use the 'dunny' :)

John

[veronica]

its about maybe having to watch the pennies with material possessions but being a lot less stressed about life in general and enjoying what there is around you.
just my opinion, (and I did qualify the remark when I made it, so it wasn't an overall generalisation!!)

Having been back in the UK for 6 weeks I standby the observation fully, can't wait to get back to NZ.

[KatieBen]

As far as the crime stats go, it doesn't surprise me at all that NZ is third highest.

What they show is the reported crime rate - the higher the figures, in general the more law-abiding the population. More crime gets reported because people have faith in the police etc to actually do something about it.

I would guesstimate that at least 75% of crimes in the UK go unreported.

A close family relative was attacked violently while out socialising with friends and the police tried every tack from "you were asking for it" to "maybe you were too drunk to say no" to "you're lying" to try and persuade her not to report it.

I would rather live in a country with a high reported crime rate and a good police force than a country with low reported crime rates and a bad one.

[kanatakiwi]

As far as the crime stats go, it doesn't surprise me at all that NZ is third highest.

What they show is the reported crime rate - the higher the figures, in general the more law-abiding the population. More crime gets reported because people have faith in the police etc to actually do something about it.

I would guesstimate that at least 75% of crimes in the UK go unreported.

A close family relative was attacked violently while out socialising with friends and the police tried every tack from "you were asking for it" to "maybe you were too drunk to say no" to "you're lying" to try and persuade her not to report it.

I would rather live in a country with a high reported crime rate and a good police force than a country with low reported crime rates and a bad one.

My experience is that a lot of crime goes unreported here too. and the police are so overworked that if it not a serious crime, they don't get to it.

[spudulike]

75% unreported in the UK and all reported in NZ?? Really? I'm assuming you have yet to move.... Not that NZ is awful but the UK isn't that bad either. There is too much crime in BOTH countries and unless you accept that you are heading for a big shock!!

L :)

[veronica]

unfortunately where theres people theres crime, in both countries we have had a burglery and in both counties the police have attended and been good. As for crime stats, they can be made to prove whatever you want them too.

[willsken]

I think it comes down to the same old thing. A lot is going to be down to just where you live in each country as to how much crime you see happening. :)

[veronica]

interesting article in this link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7843858.stm