[Tentun]

Hi all

I am having a weak moment of doubt about this New Zealand thing so I thought I would log on here and maybe get some encouragement.

We have already failed the ITA process (well, not so much failed as withdrawn our application because we were told it would fail) - LONG STORY!!! Anyway, we are struggling to find work in New Zealand from the UK so we want to fly over in February on visitors visas to find work and hopefully get a work permit. Failing that, we are considering study visas.

This all sounds lovely over a glass of wine and the adventurer in me says 'yeah, go for it' but we have a young child and I can't help thinking 'OMG, what am I doing?'. We really, really, really want to get to New Zealand but I don't know at what cost. When do we give up and say 'ok, maybe we need to accept life in this country rather than chasing a New Zealand dream'

Any encouragement would really boost morale right now?

[BkyMonster]

I think it would still be possible... harder work and scarier but possible.
Of course I'm preparing for a scary leap myself so take that with a grain of salt. :)

Would one job offer and work visa pave your way to getting a family stream visa or a longer term work visa, or do you need 2?
You might consider sending one of you out. Harder emotionally but possibly easier if you have a small child.

My process (so far) has involved a lot of alternate plans.
You seem to be at the point where one of your avenues has closed (ITA) so see if you can plan out the best (for you) way of working on plan B.

You'll likely have some important things to consider such as funding, how long of a moving process (or how quick!) you could stand depending on a job offer, your employability, and at what point you draw the line and should give up.

I'd work out a choice tree (in your head or otherwise) where you lay out what you would need to do if an avenue works and if it doesn't. Draw a map of how to get where you are going. You know where you want to be, just need the steps to get there now.



I'd only be up for giving up if there were walls in all directions.

[Silverwing86]

Hi Tentun,

I can certainly understand your trepidation if you have a child, quite something different than if there's just the two of you, eh ? On the other hand, keep in mind that children are extremely resilient and especially young ones seem to take things very much in their stride (I speak from experience here as I grew up in India and Indonesia, wouldn't have missed that experience for the world :clap !!).

Who actually told you your application would fail (don't believe everything you're told either, after all, it sounds like you did get an ITA, which means you got through the EOI selection, right ?) ? INZ or ... ? And on what basis (if it's something you're able and willing to discuss on here of course) ? I think this might be important to know if appropriate advice is to be given.

Without having the benefit of this information, I'll have a stab at it anyway in the hope that it helps in some way...

Personally I would think that what's important in making this move, is to judge whether your chances of getting through the PR process will be any better if you're in NZ and already have a job when you put your application in.

If the reason for the supposed failure lies in not having enough points for qualifications/work experience and such, your chances would probably be much better once you come here and manage to find yourselves jobs.

Although it's not unheard of to find a job from abroad, it's common knowledge that finding a job once physically here is indeed much easier than trying to do it from a distance.

If, however, the supposed failure of your application is based on something like medical issues (a whole different ballgame, been there, done that, but did manage to get through eventually so even that is not impossible !) or the like , your chances may not improve, even if you do have a job here.

I suppose another thing to consider would be, what if it doesn't work out ? You might have built up a life of sorts here in NZ and how will you feel if you don't manage to obtain PR and would have to leave again ? And how easy or difficult would it be to set up a life back home again in a practical sense (financially, getting back on the housing market, finding a new job etc.) ?

If study visas are still an option for you, then time is probably still on your side.

What I mean by this is; if you're in you're forties or older, and you're leaving a house which you have owned for a while and a settled job where you've worked for many years and where you might well comfortably retire in time (does such a thing even exist anymore :rolleyes: ??), then it's harder to leave that life behind and risk it all on an uncertain future.

(That's not to say you shouldn't though, after all, we did :D {albeit without children} and it's the best thing we could have done for ourselves, we couldn't be happier !)

If you're still young and not yet fully settled, perhaps renting rather than owning, in nice jobs but you don't see yourselves there for the rest of your lives etc., then why not ? That's the best time in your life for such an 'adventure' ! After all, life is full of risks and, as many have said before, better to have tried than to always have to look back and wonder 'why didn't we', right ?

I'm not sure if any of this helps, but these would be the things that we would probably have considered, had we been in your shoes.

I wish you much luck and wisdom in coming to a decision, let us know how you get on ?

Silver

[Carey]

Silver[/QUOTE]What I mean by this is; if you're in you're forties or older, and you're leaving a house which you have owned for a while and a settled job where you've worked for many years and where you might well comfortably retire in time (does such a thing even exist anymore ??), then it's harder to leave that life behind and risk it all on an uncertain future.

OMG, this is the hard one isn't it?! But this scenario can be, to some people( including me), deadly boring, unadventuous, predictable but to others (my OH), secure, safe and comnfortable. But it is very hard to make the decision...however I recall Tentun that you've been 'around' for a while, so the very fact that you've come back on here, suggests NZ is really where you're aiming for? Do you envisage looking back in 10/20 yrs and regretting that you didn't give it a go? Have you been to NZ? Time will tell you if you wnat to persue it but at what cost? Only your circumstances can help with that one.....a bit rich coming from me at the moment as we're being very indecisive, far easier to tell someone else what to do! hey, I'll tell you and you tell me?!
So if you feel like sharing more info....am I right thinking you're in education?; perhaps we can offer furhter advice....

[Tentun]

Thank you so much for your replies, they are very encouraging.

We are still youngish, OH is only in early 30's so we still have some good employable years ahead plus studying is not out of the question.
All we know is that we don't want to grow old in this country and we love what NZ can offer for our child(ren). I also know that if we don't do something about it now and pursue it until there are absolutely no options left available to us, then I will always think back and say 'what if we'd tried a little harder, or what if we'd done this or that'.

Our ITA failed because OH couldn't get teacher registration. He passed NZQA without too much trouble but the Teachers council picked holes in his teaching qualification because he didn't do the full requirement of courses, it is a long story and was a long battle with lots of correspondence back and forward between them and us but in the end, they said no and when they say no, they really mean it (unless you want to appeal in the courts).

So we lost bonus points for his qualification plus his 5 years teaching experience. It was pretty soul destroying. Our case officer said that without teacher reg, we would fail our ITA.

OH has another qualification in Environmental Science which is also co-incidently on the skills shortage list and we thought this would be an option for him but alas, they told us that because for the past 5 years he had been a teacher, regardless of his earlier qualification, he would be judged against teacher criteria which is painful because OH is very well qualified in Environmentals. We were told that a job offer would help our case but applying from the UK just isn't working for us (and this might be because OH doesn't have recent experience in this area plus we are offshore which doesn't help).

We are very keen to go over in Feb and take our chances with a job offer but it is the unknown that we are afraid of. We will sell our house here because it's the only way we can afford to do it and use the equity in the house to live there for a few months while finding a job or if studying is an option, then we could use the equity to pay for international student fees (which are horrendous). If OH finds job easily then all our problems will be solved. If not, then we could find something to study on the skills shortage list which means that whichever one of us is not studying can work full time in any occupation. Hopefully once NZ qualification is gained we could start the whole PR process again. This just seems like desparate measures if you know what I mean - we are risking everything and using up all our life savings for a dream! But if it works out for us, then we will be forever grateful for having taken the chance!

The thought of going over there and having to pack it in and come back to the UK just makes me want to cry.

[allchange]

Hi, I'm very new to the process - just getting the info together to put in our EOI but just wanted to give a bit of support! Sorry your up against it at the moment but if it helps we've told lots of people already of our plans and the response (particularly of older people) is "we talked of doing that and really regret not going for it because we can't do it now (usually due to children being grown up and not wanting to leave them in UK). From what I've read on the forum it really is a rollercoaster trying to get PR but as with so many positive lifechanging experiences there are big issues to be brave about and to think imaginatively for solutions. I hope this doesn't sound too intense I'm a bit hungover! We've got three children, will be leaving family, friends, an area and house we love but that's the thing about dreams they tend to come in packages that make it hard to attain unless we really want it. Hope this helps a bit.
Emma

[ourquest]

Tentun,
Difficult to know how to begin. Having such hopes and then losing out so late on must be extremely devastating. Now my task is to try and use forward thinking to provide encouragement and inspiration.

It would seem to me that your chances are still good, if a bit unpredictable. Environmental science might well be your ticket (as we have to accept that the teaching option has been closed), what does seem strange to me is that your OH has to be considered as a teacher? Perhaps for Australia this would be the case but for NZ it is work experience that counts, not specifically recent work experience, unless there is a provision in the long term skills list that I am not aware of. If a combination of points gets you sufficient for new EOI selection then next time round might go better. Yes, I understand this would be emotionally risky, but I feel you have already invested so much emotionally that you won't get out of that now.

It is sometimes better throughout the whole process to have a desirable back-up plan (eg another emigration option, or a complete lifestyle change if plan A doesn't materialise) that you genuinely look forward to. I refer to this as "playing naughts and crosses", you know, the point in the game where you realise that either way you win. Even if it is just through lessons learned, or experienced gained...the real reason for circumstances being as they are sometimes only becomes clear much later in life. Then you will look back on it and appreciate the lesson.

Back to reality. What follows is just a thought, but one worth sharing because you just never know. You're probably aware of the LTBV, or long term business visa. One of the drawbacks is you need enough funds to support yourselves for 2 years, but lets assume you have that. The entrepeneur in me immediately links the teaching to the environmental science and sees a wonderful and very noble business in teaching environmental awareness to NZ children or adults, or setting up as sort of consultancy to help existing business educate their employees. Huge plan, might not be appropriate at all, but then again the entrepeneur route to PR is still an option.

It's really just about support at the moment, I realise. Things will work out as they are meant to, and if it means anything then many of us on the forum are closer to forty, and in hindsight we wish we had thought of emigration much earlier, but we are still happy we are tackling it now. It is easy to think that now is your last opportunity, but of couse life is made up (superficially, anyway) of a whole lot of decisions,actions and attitudes no matter what your age.

All the best.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Our ITA failed because OH couldn't get teacher registration. He passed NZQA without too much trouble but the Teachers council picked holes in his teaching qualification because he didn't do the full requirement of courses, it is a long story and was a long battle with lots of correspondence back and forward between them and us but in the end, they said no and when they say no, they really mean it (unless you want to appeal in the courts).



Is there not some additional qualification or study that can be done in UK to rectify this situation? It would be a much cheaper option than paying international student fees in NZ! What exactly is he lacking qualification-wise.....PGCE/relevent first degree?

[Aussie Pom]

Not everything has to be in absolutes, go for in Feb with your work visa and see how you go. You may find more permanent work, you may change you mind once you have a different perspective but if you don't go you may always be wondering.
Good luck,
Gina:nice1

[ruthyroo]

Hi Tentun

I read your post with a lot of sympathy. My OH is a teacher, luckily though he ticks all the right boxes and is fully registered etc to teach here. He has environmental qualifications / background, and has tried applying here for various positions connected with that (as he could really do with a break from teaching) but hasn't had much success. Like your OH he has the necessary qualifications but not the recent experience. The key employers (in the public sectors at least) would be the Regional Councils - they employ a lot of scientists and some also employ environmental educators. DOC as well, though they tend to be more specialised on the science side - there is the community relations side though, where a teaching background would be seen as an advantage I think.

I think the difficulty is that it takes a very enlightened employer to recognise the transferable skills that a teacher would bring to a science position, and take a chance on employing one, esepcially if they are getting more than enough applications from people with experience and qualifications in the scientific field - and who may already be in NZ. So it's a tough call for them to take what they would see as a risk.

TBH my advice would be to explore what extra qualifications / study your OH could do in the UK to meet the NZTC requirements before you come out here. NZ isn't going anywhere (which is apparently one of the attractions!), so if it takes a few more years, so what? I think you would give yourselves a far easier time if you got everything sorted while you are in the UK and then made the jump to NZ. We arrived with pretty much everything sorted - and no kids - and it was still hard work to get settled.

FWIW we have been out here for 3.5 years and are just about to head back to the UK in March - with a first baby in tow. NZ is good but it's not the be all and end all - life goes on and there is lots you can maybe do in the UK to make the time pass quickly.

PS one more question - what does your OH want to do career-wise? Does he want to stay in teaching? Or make a shift to another field?

[Tentun]

Thanks again everyone. You guys have been so supportive and lovely.

OH is desparate to leave teaching so I guess the optimist in me says that actually this could be a blessing in disguise. Give him a chance to get back to his roots or else try something completely new and different.

We did think about OH doing some more teaching qualifications here in the UK but he already has Qualified Teacher Status so all the colleges and Uni's think he's mad wanting to re-do a qualification because they just don't understand the predicament we're in.

Thanks again everyone! I will let you know the plan as it unfolds (we have to go back to the drawing board I think, and find out exactly what plan B is going to be).

[renew]

hiya,
have you got enough points for selection in the recent EOI's? This is as low as 115 without reuirements for the LTSL.

cheers

Ian