[Scat Cat]

Hello!

So here we are, after a few weeks of sharing everyone else's news and views, ready to find out whether this is for us.

We've never been to NZ (apart from in transit in Auckland airport), but like many others we're not convinced that England is the best country to raise our two children, and when you only speak the one language, and don't like extreme temperatures, New Zealand has a certain appeal.

We have some ideas about where in NZ we think may suit us, and only change our minds about once a week when we read some new revelation about our proposed destination. Ultimately work will be a major factor of course and so anywhere that's likely to provide employment in food or telecommunications (or both) will be a draw. We're not fans of city life, and are looking forward to the possibility of having a bit of land and a more laid back lifestyle - neither of which seem to be attainable here - but equally we like to know that civilisation is not too far away if we ever need it, and a good school will also be important.

We've made our first financial commitment and are now the proud and slightly overawed owners of our ITA. We have no job at this stage, but would almost be happier not to have one since that would tie us down to one place, and we're clearly not informed enough to make that decision yet.

Just like everyone else who gets to this point we've got a million and one questions and any advice, or guidance towards other threads, or sources of information, that have helped other people would be welcomed.

We'd love to know what people miss about the places they used to call home - you don't appreciate what you've got 'til it's gone - and any advice on locations would help.

In the meantime we'll just keep tapping in to the wealth of information that you all provide, and hopefully that will help us to make the right decisions along the way.

Hope to speak to you all again soon.

Scat

[Carey]

Welcome ! You're already way ahead of some of us with an ITA...congratulations on that.... a major step!

All I would say is , if you can travel around once you get there you will soon see where you feel could be home alth' bear in mind that first impressions don't necessarily tell you how you'd feel in the future.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

[Lupin]

Hi Scat Cat and welcome :)

We chose our location having never previously visited it (been to NZ, but not Hawkes Bay). Nowhere is 'perfect', so I would suggest drawing up a massive list on paper with the locations you favour down the side and pros and cons at the top. Above this write out your top priorities (things you MUST have) and the wishlist. As you research and read the forums etc, just add in what you read or hear onto the grid (trying to bear in mind fact from opinion, although both are totally valid). Eventually you can get an impression of which areas will fulfill your needs, what the downsides of that area will be etc. We researched climate to death, comparing annual average sunshine and rainfall and maximum temperatures with our UK location for contrast. We read all the council websites, looked at people's flickr photos tagged with the areas we were considering, read all about the hospitals dh would be working in and of course, asked on here :)

I've no regrets about our area. Hawkes Bay enjoys a lovely warm climate, has very affordable housing, excellent schools, gorgeous beaches and rivers, wineries, a thriving local arts scene and two cities (UK size towns!) for all the trappings of modern life we need. We knew it would be a remote area, would have a colloquial feel and that we'd miss the music and arts scene we were accustomed to in the UK. We also knew it was an area of NZ where the wealth divide is shocking. There is affluence here in the bay that has to be seen to be believed, but the poverty is shocking.

Once we'd decided on Hawkes Bay we began researching villages and rural areas. Eventually we found ********, where we bought land within two weeks of arriving, where I got a job in the primary school and where we now live in the school house as our build finishes the final stages!

Good luck in finding your dream :)

[ourquest]

We also knew it was an area of NZ where the wealth divide is shocking. There is affluence here in the bay that has to be seen to be believed, but the poverty is shocking.


Hi Scat, and welcome to the forum. Having your ITA in hand is a pretty solid step forward!

Lupin77 has made some good points in the previous post. The quote I have taken out is, however, an example of how what one is used to "at home" has a major bearing on your impression of New Zealand. Unavoidable, but it does make it difficult to sort fact and opinion, as Lupin77 correctly points out. We are resident in South Africa, and having travelled throughout NZ there is just NO way we would ever describe the poverty in New Zealand as shocking. At worst I think you could describe it as "disappointing", which would allow African countries to rightly be described in more extreme terms.

On another post I described New Zealand drivers as generally courteous and patient, and a couple of posts later it was clear, again, that this was my opinion and not shared by others! All down to what you/I/other members are used to.

So my inevitable conclusion is that the only way for you to know a place is to be there yourself. Even facts are misleading, because facts don't exist inside us, they will forever remain external (and many people are not good at synergising...taking countless facts and using them to create a usable, meaningful picture). How you feel inside, personally and then collectively as a family, is your only reliable guide...and this can be significantly affected by preconceptions or your own prejudice. And even then, your own mood at any time will so significantly change how external factors appear to you. Psychology first, successful integration into a new country second!

All the very best with your search and your proposed move...I wish you real benefit here on the forum and hope that NZ does in the end provide that elusive family-orientated semi-rural haven you hope it will be. If it means anything (after the content of my post) then we see NZ in the same terms, and that is with the benefit of two extensive visits.

[Sam B]

We chose where we now live in a fairly randon way - I was offered jobs in Wellington, Hamilton, Auckland and Northland, but chose the job with the best terms of employment and the nicest sounding manager on the phone - the job here was managed by someone in the same profession as me, who didn't inhale sharply when I asked for 4 days a week, and said "family comes first of course".

I then agonised that I'd made the wrong decision, Wellington sounded so vibrant, Northland sounded so warm. However, it all worked out. I live in Cambridge - a town that would perhaps come close to meeting your requirements, but then many places would, and we are shortly moving out to the countryside to the land we have bought. The Waikato is not the most stunning bit of NZ, but it is pleasant enough, but the best thing for us is its close proximity to so many places that we want to visit at w/es, like ski-ing, the Coromandel, Raglan, Auckland, Rotorua and Taupo.

What do I miss? FRIENDS, mostly, also France alot, old buildings and architecture, rights of way and public footpaths, irony in the media, good TV and newspapers, many clothes shops, badgers, foxes and some birds, CORNWALL loads. But not the weather!

But I am happy here, in case you're wondering.

[craig1234564]

What do I miss? FRIENDS, mostly, also France alot, old buildings and architecture, rights of way and public footpaths, irony in the media, good TV and newspapers, many clothes shops, badgers, foxes and some birds, CORNWALL loads. But not the weather!

But I am happy here, in case you're wondering.

Hi, what is an ITA? and what do you mean there are no public footpaths?

[IanW99]

Hi, what is an ITA? and what do you mean there are no public footpaths?

ITA = Invitation To Apply.

After you submit your EOI (expression of interest) and if it is selected, you are sent an ITA which is basically your EOI printed out. You provide all the evidence required etc and send it in. If all is good you get an RRV (returning residence visa)

Not sure what the comment is about no public footpaths, there are plenty of them around where we live?

Ian

[Sam B]

There are lots of public footpaths here, particularly in certain places like national parks, but there is not the same right to roam that there is in the UK. From our house in Cornwall there was a network of footpaths across farms and all around the coast, and my partner could take his mountain bike out and cycle for miles without hardly going on the road. That is not possible here. If you drive around the British countryside, you see public footpaths marked all over the place, especially across farmland, so you never have to look hard for a walk. The footpaths are lovely here, but there are nowhere near as many. especially across farmland, as there are no ancient rights to roam, and most land is privately owned.

Am I the only person that thinks this? I found it really noticeable at first, and J really notices it when he goes out on his bike....

[ourquest]

Am I the only person that thinks this? I found it really noticeable at first, and J really notices it when he goes out on his bike....

Sounds like you are experienced enough that your opinion counts;)
I always look at New Zealand from a Southern African perspective...funny enough that probably makes it easier for us to adapt to NZ despite our superb weather, wide open spaces and abundant wildlife back "home". In New Zealand the DOC (Department of Conservation) have created many viewpoints, walks and other attractions throughout both islands and they are all free entrance. Beaches are absolutely abundant and there is no parking fee or other restrictions. Toilets are always provided and well maintained (our recent 8500km trip failed to find a single toilet without toilet paper in it). There are many places with few people, and apart from the changeable weather and needing to have sure footing there really aren't any dangers and plenty of opportunity to get out into the bush. Even in the cities there are parks all over, so in my opinion, New Zealand is something of a paradise in this respect. This is in the view of a resident of Africa, anyway, where we have camped numerous times in the heart of the Namib Desert 600km from any supplies (whatsoever!). Even in this context, New Zealand feels easy to escape in.

[BaldyBeardyBloke]

Hello and welcome.

We'd been to NZ for a month on holiday and toured both islands. We went through all the same quandries around where to settle when we arrived, and with no job awaiting it wasn't pre-determined at all, but with two kids at primary school it was a very important decision as we didn't want to have to change schools once were here unless we had to.

So, how did we decide on Hamilton, for that is where we are?

To be honest it wasn't anything scientific. Original thoughts were Chrischurch with Wellington as backup having ruled out Auckland as too big and busy. Then more thoughts and investigation around job possibilities put Welly to top of the list. Then (you keeping up?) when we looked at Welly we decided (much like you say that we didn't want to live 'in' a city) it seemed we would likely have to live quite a way out with a potentially arduous journey into the city if (as would be likely) that's where work would be. I had that in Scotland and wanted to avoid it again.

So, next biggest city - Hamilton. We didn't visit here on holiday, so hadn't a clue about it really, but lots and lots of research later we made the final decision to stick the pin in at the Waikato centre and go for it.

Weather/climate was never any part of our decision really and still isn't a top priority for us. Similar to yourselves extremes of heat/cold don't appeal, so NZ is pretty much ideal from that point of view.

We're extremely happy here, so much so we're building a house here, so see our future committed to this area for the next couple of years at least. The kids love it too, which counts for a lot.

What do I miss?

Personally, not a thing. Nothing. Maybe one family in Scotland we were close to if pushed for an answer, but that really is it, and keeping in touch in the modern age isn't hard.

Would we ever go back?

Never say never, who knows what might change in life, but I find it very difficult to imagine a scenario that would make me return. I can't even see us making any plans for even a visit to the UK any time soon. In the event we no longer saw NZ as home we'd be, I suspect, far more inclined to look at a different country again. Maybe a mud hut on Trinidad to retire to and watch the cricket all day, who knows.

We're all different, so just do what feels right for you is my advice. Whats the worst that could happen?

[Lupin]

We are resident in South Africa, and having travelled throughout NZ there is just NO way we would ever describe the poverty in New Zealand as shocking. At worst I think you could describe it as "disappointing", which would allow African countries to rightly be described in more extreme terms.



I think after we had traveled through NZ we might have described the poverty as disappointing. Having lived here for 11 months and having a husband that works in mental health, I stand by my description of it as shocking. Not in comparison to where I came from etc, but just it is a shock to find such bleak poverty in a country that until fairly recent history was described as 'classless'. NZ doesn't have the same class system as is so ingrained elsewhere, granted, but the social strata is defined by ethnicity and I find that shocking and disturbing.

[Sam B]

I would totally agree with the above, based on my daily work in Tokoroa.

[ourquest]

Fair point,and this might well be a case of really getting to know how things work when you live in a country, and not just visit it as we have so far. I am still assuming that being a welfare state all New Zealanders have access to some funds...and in cases state housing, although I realise that welfare payments are likely to be only enough for essentials. And with an unemployment rate of around 3.5%, that's a lot of people working for what is quite a high minimum wage (in the scheme of world poverty, anyway).

Please understand that with no money whatsoever, no running water, rivers containing cholera anyway and massive health problems related to Aids and drug-resistant TB, many people in Africa might not see it quite the same way. It is, after all, relative, and whilst I must point out that I do not have the regional knowledge that those living in NZ have, and that my ego might secretely want me to be right, I think we need to remove ourselves from the equation and realise that New Zealand does not have problems remotely as desperate.

If I have missed something completely, then I am saddened by a situation I thought did not exist in New Zealand, but saddened for those affected, not because I was particularly hoping to escape its influence myself. And irrespective of what words we choose to describe it, anywhere where social success is linked to ethnicity is, I admit, not an ideal society, and it is right that we bring this to people's attention, hoping that they themselves become part of the solution.

[Sam B]

No, I think you are quite right, Ourquest, the poverty in NZ can not even be compared on the same scale to that in Africa. But I agree with Lupin that it is the disparity between rich and poor in a 1st world country that is shocking here, and the strong links to ethnicity. However, I am sure it does not compare to Africa, but it is wrong nevertheless.

[Potato]

On the right to roam issue, I guess it's a case of swings and roundabouts (though how I dislike that phrase...).

In the UK, it's true that there is the right to roam and the public footpath system is very good in general. But I believe NZ offers so much more than this, that for me personally it has the best system. The land administered by DOC as national parks, forest parks, nature reserves, conservation parks and scenic reserves is just huge. I think that, when combined, you're looking at a total area slightly larger than the entirety of Scotland.
But then we come onto historic differences, that the national parks in NZ are not the same as in the UK. In New Zealand they tend to be almost true wilderness (especially Fiordland...yikes). Whereas British parks are farmed, lived in, lived on and are just basically working environments which happen to have beautiful scenery.
Compare, say, Brecon Beacons NP with that of Nelson Lakes. You can see the difference at work right here. They are about the same size, but the Beacons are farmed and contain many villages and a decent-sized town in Brecon itself. Nelson Lakes has one very small town and one "village", then there is just nothing. Beautiful mountains towering above 2000m, and then lower down you have fairly dense forest. And I think this somes up the differences very well. Britain is very "open". We have destroyed so much of our forest, and the land has been so farmed that the "right-to-roam" just seems natural. In New Zealand, you have so many untouched areas, that wandering across farmland does not seem so important as in the UK.

I will never concede that Britain's walking system is somehow superior, but this is just the way I see it. Though the constant fenced off farmland in NZ can get wearisome when you're driving through it, I am always reminded of what is really out there. The extent of the great parks and reserves. I just can't complain.

This is a debate that could go on for a while I suppose. When I said NZ is untouched, of course it is relative. The amount of forest that has been destroyed by man (European and Maori) in such a short time is shocking.

A final point, to me it seemed like there were a lot of lesser-known paths that cross farmland. They always had notices to keep to the path as it's private land, no litter, leave gates as you find them etc. I did not find them located all that sparsely, but they are of course not as common as in the UK. Off the top of my head, they are coming back to me now. One example, I recall crossing farmland for about 30 minutes at one point, it had an optional gold coin donation, I thought it was worth it to be honest. Most of them close for lambing though, which has passed now but is always worth looking out for late august through october. (Conveniently, the windiest time of the year when you may not want to be out wandering anyway :) ).
Another option, if there is no footpath, is to talk to the farmer. I would be fairly optimistic that they would not mind terribly.
But the problem really is biking. In NZ I do see that as an issue. There aren't that many biking trails, and fairly often there are those shared with trampers, and this can create tension. And I don't think farmers would be so keen on having bikes cross their land as they would pairs of feet.

[Sam B]

I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think that I am complaining about the National parks of NZ, which are stunning and the footpaths are well-kept and wonderful. But I live in the Waikato, and there is not an abundance of these types of places in this area, so what I meant was I miss having footpaths close to where I live. But I'm kind of wishing I hadn't mentioned it now, cos it looks like I was just having a gripe, and actually I love it here.

But you did ask me what I missed!

[Lupin]

I understand about the footpaths Sam. Footpaths and decent OS maps are so quintessentially British, we do miss them too. I sold all my pink and orange OS maps on ebay before we left and now just have two topographical maps of our local area and they're nowhere near as helpful. Living in the countryside it's odd not to have the 'right' to just roam over the lot- we need to check with landowners first and there aren't clear footpaths and stiles.

It's quite acceptable to love NZ countryside and miss footpaths, imo :)

[Sam B]

Thanks Lupin! Knew you'd understand!!

[Rusty]

Hi and welcome.
I am sure you will change your mind many times about where to start in NZ. But, think of it as that, a start. Try it on and see if it fits.
We are heading for Christchurch (eventually) because that is where we spent most time on our holiday and where OH sister lives.