[azm13]

Hi everyone,

Currently contemplating a move to OZ. Have been here for 4 years and do love it here (in Dunedin). I work as an auditor in one of the larger accounting firms here but it really is relatively small. Problem is, I seem to have hit a brick wall. As my manger appropriately puts it "If you want to move up, I will need to move up. That means the partner either has to retire or die!!!". Instead of mucking about and moving to CHC,WLG or AKL where there are more oopurtunities, I though night as well go to a larger economy, ie OZ.

Just wondering if anyone here knows how the work environment is compared to places like UK, Hong Kong or US (No point comparing to Dunedin as it is VERY laid back here). Is the pay really as good as they say it is taking into account cost of living (assuming your lifestyle does not change too much)? Any info would be helpful.

Cheers

[Nick88]

I was in Oz for a year many years ago, and the pay was significantly better then, and apparently is more so now. The only way to know for sure is to look at job sites. The average Aussie earns about a third more, and pays less tax. Hence 800 Kiwis a week buying one-way tickets.

The cost of living is the same if not lower, though the housing affordability in the main centres is as bad as Akl.

[pieeater]

I've lost count of the amount of mine and my wife's friends/collegues and neighbors and childrens friends who have now sold up and gone to Oz.Most of them just ordinary families like ourselves a lot of them have worked there before when they were younger.The reasons they say they are going are for higher pay,better employment opportunities,and a higher standard of living.A lot of my Kiwi collegues say they sometimes feel foolish for staying here and site family ties as the primary reason for not joining the exodus.I've just yesterday found out about another guy who is up for sale and off.I'm having his job when he goes.Just checkout the jobsites and see what your earnings potential is.We're personally not ready for another move yet but I would double my income over there.It's all a bit sad really.

[Red Devil]

Blimey, I didn't realise that many are leaving a week :eek:

I appreciate New Zealand is short of skilled workers, well this is obviously one reason why!!!

Looking into the future... I just hope it doesn't attract the wrong type of immigrant (if you know what I mean) because they're desperate to fill vacancies... one good reason I guess why New Zealand's immigration process is far superior to the UK's.

[Tia Maria]

If you haven't already seen it, Hays do a salary guide for both NZ and OZ:

www.hays-hps.co.nz/salary/default.aspx

Cheers

Tia

[stu70]

It is even more funny when the finance minister chimes in and tells someone to follow the other kiwis to Oz (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=144&objectid=10487279)! They certainly would not have gotten away with that kind of response here.. When you have a smoking hot economy almost next door there will be a big suction happening for those with skills. 800 a week is still a HUGE number considering there are only 4 mil people in the whole country!

[TheDude]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is "OZ" and what does it stand for?

Edit: I think I found it, is it Australia?

[IanW99]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is "OZ" and what does it stand for?

Edit: I think I found it, is it Australia?

Yep, it's OZstralia :)

Ian

[Lupin]

What did you decide azm13?

[ourquest]

Looking into the future... I just hope it doesn't attract the wrong type of immigrant (if you know what I mean) because they're desperate to fill vacancies...

Cost of living issues aside, maybe it will continue to attract those for whom money, although important, doesn't dominate their choice of where to live, allowing them to gain the benefit from a more non-materialistic, slower paced and arguably more authentic lifestyle? This, IMO is the right type of immigrant for preserving the character of NZ. This in no way is meant as any criticism of the OP's choice, one cannot really judge individually as we each find authenticity in potentially so many ways and in so many possible locations, but I do believe it to be "statistically relevant" to the future of New Zealand immigration, and I am sure that even those who have spent time in New Zealand, be it for a few years or most of their lives and then move on, will always carry their NZ experience with them in positive ways.

[zardell]

Cost of living issues aside, maybe it will continue to attract those for whom money, although important, doesn't dominate their choice of where to live, allowing them to gain the benefit from a more non-materialistic, slower paced and arguably more authentic lifestyle? This, IMO is the right type of immigrant for preserving the character of NZ.


Oh dear, there is so much I would like to say in response to your post Ourquest, but I'll refrain.

Suffice to say, I find it so contradictory it's laughable.

You can't put money and cost of living aside as by it's very nature, finances do dictate your choice of where and how to live. Surely, money even dictates as to whether you can afford to immigrate to NZ in the first place. If you have little money and a small income, your choices are obviously limited. If you have more than enough money then your choices are many and you can therefore decide to choose to live a 'more non-materialistic, slower paced... lifestyle' should you so choose.

As to the 'more authentic lifestyle' to which you refer, I can only begin to imagine to what you refer. It wouldn't be the 'I grow my own food whilst chopping my own firewood for heating my badly insulated home' scenario to which you refer would it?? Is that (in your opinion) the 'right type of immigrant' that would 'preserve the character of NZ'? Maybe you could enlighten me?

I really don't wish to sound rude towards you Ourquest, but I personally find some of your posts quite hard to decipher.

Julie

xx

[ourquest]

Its all good, Julie, I am glad my post reached an audience however confusing or laughable it might be! You know I reckon there just have to be people out there who read my posts and wonder what I'm on.

But seriously, perhaps we all feel the need to make comments, and we do it from such different sets of circumstances that we can never understand much about each other online. In defence of this particular post, I did pose it as a question, and qualified it as being based on my own opinion. My own opinion is, of course, always hmmm my opinion...

And to enlighten you as requested: Irrespective of the amount of money that people earn they can choose a life of integrity, love for others and appreciation of what they have. In the greater scheme of things money doesn't promote these attributes and it is in these attributes that authenticity lies. If the underlying spiritual basis here doesn't do it for you then so be it, but I did make the choice to contribute on this forum from the point of view of positive philosophy and I am aware that not everyone likes to hear it. But some do, and enough members have indicated their appreciation of my posts that I will continue to write them, no matter how self-righteous or smug they sound when I read them back to myself.

If you don't actually understand some of my posts as you suggest, then I can only politely ask you not to criticise the content of them. Seek first to understand, and then to be understood.

[James 1077]

AZM

I've got a few friends who I qualified with who are now working in Oz for Big 4 firms (one with PwC in Sydney, one for EY in Melbourne and one for KPMG in Melbourne).

General feeling is that in Melbourne the pay and lifestyle is great but not so in Sydney. One of my mates in Melbourne started off with PwC in Sydney, visited our friend in Melbourne, got back and handed his notice in to make the move! This was even though he lived in Manly, caught the ferry over to work every day and the job sounded far better than the one that we had in London!

If you want then PM me and I can put you in touch.

BTW - I'm off to Auckland in a couple of weeks to work for a Big 4 firm there and am pretty ambitious so hope that "Dead Man's Shoes" doesn't operate in Auckland too! :)

[James 1077]

Oh, forgot to add that my boss (for the next week! :) ) used to work for KPMG in Sydney.

He liked living in Oz and his family liked it too but he wasn't too keen on his colleagues which is why he came back.

[zardell]

You know I reckon there just have to be people out there who read my posts and wonder what I'm on.

If you don't actually understand some of my posts as you suggest, then I can only politely ask you not to criticise the content of them. Seek first to understand, and then to be understood.


Mmmm - I have to admit that wondering what you are on has occasionally passed through my mind........:)

I'm all for reading posts that contribute to positive philosophy, but I obviously failed to recognise the 'underlying spiritual basis' that your particular post was apparently based upon. Is this the same spiritual basis that you consider would be ' "statistically relevant" to the future of New Zealand immigration' ?
And yes, of course you may politely ask me not to criticise the content of your posts - I'd have to understand their content before I could do that wouldn't I ?

As you point out Ourquest, I was merely seeking first to understand and then be understood.

Now, let the answers to the original posters question recommence.

Julie

xx

[sweetpea]

I just hope it doesn't attract the wrong type of immigrant (if you know what I mean) because they're desperate to fill vacancies... one good reason I guess why New Zealand's immigration process is far superior to the UK's.

I guess you'll need to spell this out for me, since I'm not that familiar with the UK. What exactly is the "wrong type of immigrant"?

[willsken]

Oh dear, there is so much I would like to say in response to your post Ourquest, but I'll refrain.

Suffice to say, I find it so contradictory it's laughable.

You can't put money and cost of living aside as by it's very nature, finances do dictate your choice of where and how to live. Surely, money even dictates as to whether you can afford to immigrate to NZ in the first place. If you have little money and a small income, your choices are obviously limited. If you have more than enough money then your choices are many and you can therefore decide to choose to live a 'more non-materialistic, slower paced... lifestyle' should you so choose.

As to the 'more authentic lifestyle' to which you refer, I can only begin to imagine to what you refer. It wouldn't be the 'I grow my own food whilst chopping my own firewood for heating my badly insulated home' scenario to which you refer would it?? Is that (in your opinion) the 'right type of immigrant' that would 'preserve the character of NZ'? Maybe you could enlighten me?


xx

Have to say I'm right with you on this. If you can't afford the cost of living in NZ then it must be very hard to make the move work, especially if the cost of living where you came from wasn't a problem for you.

I've come to NZ for the slower pace of life etc, etc.... but I know if I had to think about what I'm spending my money on I'd be questioning the move. I did my years of struggling a long time ago and have no intention of going back there if I can help it, even if that means moving on somewhere else.

[Lupin]

If the underlying spiritual basis here doesn't do it for you then so be it, but I did make the choice to contribute on this forum from the point of view of positive philosophy and I am aware that not everyone likes to hear it. But some do, and enough members have indicated their appreciation of my posts that I will continue to write them, no matter how self-righteous or smug they sound when I read them back to myself.


It's tricky because the rules of this forum seem to dictate that you may only argue with someone's opinion and not how they deliver it. It has been suggested to me that I use pm for such objections and so I have. For the benefit of the rest of the forum it relates to me agreeing with your insightful comment outlined above in red.

[Nick88]

I guess you'll need to spell this out for me, since I'm not that familiar with the UK. What exactly is the "wrong type of immigrant"?

And while you're at it please explain what an authentic lifestyle is, Ourquest.

I am a bit perplexed with your posts here, my friend, you seem to think that is is some sort of haven for those wanting a non-materialistic (immaterial?) life. This is fine if you can afford it, but not something most of us can.

[dilanium]

I don't understand how a non-materialistic life is something you have to be rich to afford. IMO it's something that would help you save money because you're not spending it all on stuff.

[ourquest]

And while you're at it please explain what an authentic lifestyle is, Ourquest.

I am a bit perplexed with your posts here, my friend, you seem to think that is is some sort of haven for those wanting a non-materialistic (immaterial?) life. This is fine if you can afford it, but not something most of us can.

Hopefully I had put my understanding of my own term "authentic lifestyle" into words a few posts back. Really I just see it as a different set of priorities, where money is not necessarily the single biggest factor. Having enough money, or indeed enough of anything is so dependent on the attitude of the person measuring it, that a particular paycheck to one person which seems like a lot of money seems like not enough to another. But I think the point I am trying to make, and getting myself deeper and deeper into the stuff sheep make after they've eaten, is that when anyone chases after more money, or a bigger house, or a more expensive car at the expense of their time, or time with their family, etc, then they find that there is never enough and they could become, or are "trapped" by materialism. This is perhaps more common in (self-employed) business people rather than employees, since they have to say "ok that's enough, now I go home and have dinner". Maybe I should add that the self-employed person is less likely to feel as restricted by salaries, as they always have in the back of their minds that they could miss dinner, work instead and then they'll meet their mortgage payment after all.

Again, I am not equating this particularly with a move to Australia, I am only thinking that with so many ten year old cars on the road, so many free things to do outdoors, such an inherently priceless natural beauty and maybe even the famous "tall poppy syndrome" then in New Zealand there is potentially much less pressure to measure success in terms of money than in some other places in the world. This will suit some people, and those people will hardly put pressure on their neighbour to outdo them, so the general lifestyle ethos persists.

What this really means in terms of immigration numbers in ten years time is anyone's guess except that in all likelyhood most of them will be driving twenty year old Subarus...:)

[Nick88]

I don't understand how a non-materialistic life is something you have to be rich to afford. IMO it's something that would help you save money because you're not spending it all on stuff.

You can only save the money if you have it in the first place, and this is not necessarily possible with the slower paced 'lifestyle' that Ourquest is looking forward to. To me a laid-back life and no money worries are for those that are wealthy.

I didn't express myself very well in my last post. What I meant by a non-materialistic life was one that was not dominated by a need to earn money, and not, as most would assume the desire to consume goods and services. Again this is being a bit fanciful, Kiwis work longer hours for less take home pay than Aussies. Now, some will say '...but you don't have to spend money to enjoy life...' which is true, but only after all the bills have been paid. Sadly here that means more hours worked and less hours playing than in Aus.

[Nick88]

Ourquest, you are clearly a bit of a romantic.

Have you read the threads about house prices, interest rates and affordability? How about the one concerning dental costs? Most people would not forgo food for a week so they can get a filling.

I am self employed, so I know the stresses of having bills to pay and hoping I can make enough sales to cover costs. I often have to work weekends so that I can make those sales, not for my next Rolex, but for food and petrol and unromantic things like that.

How do you intend to make a living?

[ourquest]

Ourquest, you are clearly a bit of a romantic.

Have you read the threads about house prices, interest rates and affordability? How about the one concerning dental costs? Most people would not forgo food for a week so they can get a filling.

I am self employed, so I know the stresses of having bills to pay and hoping I can make enough sales to cover costs. I often have to work weekends so that I can make those sales, not for my next Rolex, but for food and petrol and unromantic things like that.

How do you intend to make a living?

I have read them, yes. And for the most part I agree that the situation could be better. I live in South Africa and we have our own set of issues. I could move to the UK to escape them, but I prefer the thought of living in NZ. We could have applied for residence in Australia, too, but I prefer the thought of NZ. Should I rather not move to NZ out of fear that I might not make a living? Or should I just accept the situation in SA in the same way I think those in NZ should accept theirs? This is an argument I cannot win/questions I cannot answer, but what difference does it make to anyone else if I have a romantic ideal? If I succeed I will be told I am lucky, and if I fail it might have nothing to do with money and everything to do with mental depression, an unexpected car accident or bad management of a legal issue. If you think I am ignoring real issues I assure you I have done my homework, I know my own strengths and weaknesses, I have established the risks involved and I am prepared to take them.

I earn my living (self employed) in a field that most people thought wouldn't work. It does, and has done for me for 13 years, albeit with ups and downs. If I had also thought it wouldn't work maybe I would have proved myself right?

There are MANY posts on this forum from people who complain about the same issues as you mention but are adamant that they have made the right move, and that their lives/lifestyles have improved. Are they wrong too?

[incredible hulse]

in New Zealand there is potentially much less pressure to measure success in terms of money than in some other places in the world.

Must say I think this is one of the biggest myths about NZ and kiwis. I personally find most to be quite driven by acquiring money (as much if not more so than in UK). The fact that some are not living a materialistic lifestyle is more to do with the poor salaries/high cost of living making it a given rather than any type of hippy ideal

[granger]

One of the things our kids have told us is how they find their schoolmates here are far less materialistic than in the UK. The kids here don't care and don't talk about designer labels and the rest of it so our kids are far more comfortable here than they were in the UK.

[zardell]

Must say I think this is one of the biggest myths about NZ and kiwis. I personally find most to be quite driven by acquiring money (as much if not more so than in UK). The fact that some are not living a materialistic lifestyle is more to do with the poor salaries/high cost of living making it a given rather than any type of hippy ideal



Spot on.......:clap

Julie

xx

[Nick88]

I agree, IH. Hippy was the word I was going to use, as well.

The kids don't compare designer labels cos none of their parents can afford them.

[granger]

Our kids go to a school in a wealthy area and most of the parents could afford designer stuff if their kids asked for it. It seems the kids are less interested in this sort of thing than they were in the UK though so they don't. It's good for the parents and the kids.

[incredible hulse]

Our kids go to a school in a wealthy area and most of the parents could afford designer stuff if their kids asked for it. It seems the kids are less interested in this sort of thing than they were in the UK though so they don't. It's good for the parents and the kids.
Maybe true of kids; mine are too young to make comment. My point was more to do with the kiwis I have come across through work (here and UK) who are as keen to earn money as the next person and the fact that such huge numbers are working abroad for long periods would back this up (I know travel is attractive to some but personally don't think that it the big driver it is often referred to). Nowt wrong with that in the slightest but the whole image of NZ'ers working for the love of it and the 'authentic lifestyle' isn't what I've seen

[Probyn]

Come on give ourquest a break.Good to have a rich hippy on the forum,why not hear his opinions.
I like his posts

[gil]

Me too, Probyn.

I have had differences of opinion with Ourquest in the past and I still enjoy his posts. I have to say I agree with Granger re the designer stuff for kids - it just doesn't seem to enter into their thinking here, in our experience, and same applies to life in general too.

Gil

[willsken]

I agree, IH. Hippy was the word I was going to use, as well.

The kids don't compare designer labels cos none of their parents can afford them.

Not necessarily. I can afford them but my kids don't talk about them because I refuse to buy them. Didn't hook into that rubbish in the UK either.