[watshea]

Might not seem relevant to some but how prevelant is hunting in NZ? From what I have picked up it seems to be a favourite kiwi pastime.We hope to live in a rural area but the thought of witnessing this activity does not appeal.What animals are hunted and is it only on organised events? I was bought up on a farm here but was able to promptly remove any fox hunters or beagle packs.Is animal welfare given much consideration in general?

[PeteS]

Might not seem relevant to some but how prevelant is hunting in NZ? From what I have picked up it seems to be a favourite kiwi pastime.We hope to live in a rural area but the thought of witnessing this activity does not appeal.What animals are hunted and is it only on organised events? I was bought up on a farm here but was able to promptly remove any fox hunters or beagle packs.Is animal welfare given much consideration in general?

Quite big here. No big packs of dogs, or hunting pinks with "Yoiks, Tally ho...", but lots of people have shotguns, 22's, 243's, 270's, and I've got an old Lee Enfield 303.

A firearms license can be obtained from the NZ Police after jumping through several hoops. A written firearms safety test, interviews of family and friends, background checks for drug or violence convictions, etc. But they license the person, not the weapons, so I can get as many weapons and as much ammunition as I wish.

You can hunt on your own land, or someone elses land with permission, with whatever type of gun you wish, and you can get a permit free from the local DoC office to hunt on DoC land. DoC do not permit shotgun or rimfire weapons. So that really means centre fire 243 or greater. This stops people hunting birds, and ensures that they have a gun large enough to make a clean kill. For me this means that I can hunt my piece of land (9 hectares) and jump over my back fence onto DoC's 600 hectares as I wish.

It is also allowed to hunt with dogs, usually 2 or 3 dogs, but they are normally only used to corner a pig while it is shot. I personally don't like hunting with dogs, and wouldn't permit it on my land.

Animals hunted? Introduced species are hunted as pests. Rabbit, Possum, Pig, Goat, Deer, Chamois, Thar, and so on. None of which should be here. We either hunt them, or DoC poison them with air dropped 10-80.

Every year in Alexandra, they raise money for the local school by having a rabbit hunt, with prizes for the greatest number caught. And there is a school in Taranaki that does the same with Possum.

[watshea]

Thanks Pete. Really appreciate the info. Might have to re-think the rural retreat thing! Guess there's not many fellow veggies either.
Regards,Heather

[PeteS]

Thanks Pete. Really appreciate the info. Might have to re-think the rural retreat thing! Guess there's not many fellow veggies either.
Regards,Heather

Hunting may be popular, but it's not "in your face". You wouldn't know it was there unless you asked. You'd hear the occaisional "bang" as someone gets dinner in.

Rural. A place where people grow things and harvest them for eating. Trees, Grapes, Corn, Milk, Beef, Pork, Venison, and so on. I'd still go for the rural retreat though. Just be aware of the reality.

As for being a veggie? There are not many veggie options in restaurants out side the main areas.

[Nick88]

Hunting here is going out shooting pigs, goats, ducks and deer in the bush. All are considered vermin so the ecomentalists don't bat an eyelid. Shooting possums is done simply for pleasure, and they are not usually eaten, though they can be (taste like rabbit).

[PeteS]

Shooting possums is done simply for pleasure, and they are not usually eaten, though they can be (taste like rabbit).

Not entirely for pleasure, the fur is worth $120/kg.... And I thought everything tasted like chicken.....

[wiki]

The hunting you'll probably be most exposed to is duck - season starts in May and if you're even semi rural you'll probably hear the guns (often quite early in the morning)

Rabbits and possums are hunted in paddocks, bush edge, and deer pigs etc are hunted in deeper bush so less chance of you seeing it.

All can be eaten, and usually are. There is a massive rabbit problem in southern South Island - the rabbits eat all the grass which leads to erosion and lack of feed for stock. Things improved when RHD was snuck in from Australia about 10 years ago, but the immunity has been growing and numbers are well up again which means the annual Easter Bunny Shoot in Alex (i kid you not) is getting larger bags each year.

[StevieD]

Hunting is not too much in your face? Everywhere you look there are hunting and fishing shops! :laugh

My daughter was on the end of an unfortunate incident in Rotorua, some idiot had been up in the bush, comes down in his ute with a dead boar in the back, still dripping with fresh blood, just parked it in a standard parking area, uncovered. Youngest went bananas at the sight.... but I suppose the number of dead things on the road tend to numb you somewhat :)

I am not naive enough to say that people shouldn't hunt, after all this is how many people live here, but surely a cover would have helped?

Oh, and I am the only non veggie in the family, and it is difficult to find stuff at times.

[andrewandjane]

Hunting here is going out shooting pigs, goats, ducks and deer in the bush. All are considered vermin so the ecomentalists don't bat an eyelid. Shooting possums is done simply for pleasure, and they are not usually eaten, though they can be (taste like rabbit).

:no

"ecomentalists!" Personally I'd be more inclined to say the gun toting man who kills animals simply for pleasure is further down the "mentalist spectrum"

[dilanium]

:no

"ecomentalists!" Personally I'd be more inclined to say the gun toting man who kills animals simply for pleasure is further down the "mentalist spectrum"

I'm eco minded- and I though I've never been to NZ after reading about what it allowed to be hunted and the problems they cause I fully support it. Why not shoot a vermin and have some dinner? It's better than poisoning it and letting the carcass rot.

If these vermin are not eradicated/managed then the ecosystem of NZ may well collapse and many of the unique animals (birds esp.) would be lost. We (humans) brought them in, we should take care of the mess we made.

So let them hunt!

[andrewandjane]

i've no problems with killing them for pest control, its a neccessity to protect indigenous flora and fauna..but the quote was killing "simply for pleasure"..thats just psychotic

[ourquest]

i've no problems with killing them for pest control, its a neccessity to protect indigenous flora and fauna..but the quote was killing "simply for pleasure"..thats just psychotic

Hmmm, a difficult debate to take part in whilst remaining objective, but I have to agree with the above and I will attempt to explain why in this post.

A few points worth considering. The fact that humans introduced the non-indiginous fauna can become an irrelevant point from an ethical point of view, as two wrongs don't make a right. That having been said, it is necessary to protect the existing fauna and flora against this introduced threat and I have to support attempts to do so.

It would be comforting to know that any hunting done with the above protection in mind was done with a heavy heart, where the hunter is personally devastated by the need to control the vermin, but sadly this is seldom the case. Quite the opposite, in fact, it is a thrill for the hunter's ego to engage in acts of such power, disguised as sport where the opponent doesn't even have the benefit of knowing there is a game in progress.

And so it becomes ethically confusing when a desire to hunt is seen alongside the need to protect the environment, when in fact they are at complete opposite ends of a mental spectrum (which is the valid point andrewandjane are making). Like with many aspects of the world this type of need/solution thinking can quickly spiral out of control and hide the core issue...which in this case might be a concerted effort to avoid disruption of balance in the first place. Essentially, encouraging the hunt as a solution is not building future wisdom.

Psychologically, hunters have a conflict of interest with respect to the eradication of the vermin (as they would prefer a sustainable hunt) whereas DOC, in their campaign to poison the vermin, do not do so with any hidden agenda of pleasure, but out of a desire to correct an imbalance. And since motive is often the measure of a person or organisation, mistakenly viewing the hunter as making an intentional positive contribution does not help to teach sound ethics to future generations (the need for future wisdom). It would be better in this context to completely separate the issues and accept hunting entirely as a sport for the pleasure of the individual, and the individual must be accountable for this choice. I should add, for completeness, that it is a pleasure I do not share.

And as an example of future wisdom and relevant to some other posts on this thread, vegetarianism is a more sustainable and less impactful form of nutrition, since the same area of land can feed many more individuals where plants are the product rather than livestock. And with their being further health benefits involved, not to mention the ethical issues which motivate many vegetarians, it will be no surprise if vegetarianism is a far more dominant and marketed choice in fifty years' time. Much like we all now wish that carbon emissions were reduced years ago, or at least we will when our coastal baches are below sea level.

[Moorf]

Possums certainly aren't killed purely for pleasure - they are targeted due to their destructive effect on NZ flora and fauna!! They are a pest. They carry TB (so I hear). Their pelts can also earn hunters a nice little side income and the tourist industry gets to flog nipple and willy warmers :D Farmers employ possum hunters.

We live rurally and I do see many empty shotgun cartridges down at the Waimakariri Gorge when I do daily dog walks there - they shoot rabbits and possum there. However, I have never actually seen a hunter hunting or met armed men on our tramps!

[dilanium]

I'm just going to say that we shouldn't lump hunters into one big stereotype. Just because something is true for one person in a group does not make it true for another.

I for one am planning on hunting (eventually) when I get to NZ. I will do my part to eradicate problem species and have some nice fresh meat. I'm also planning on raising my own meat stock. I'd rather raise my own animals and know how they lived, than buy something in the store. I generally feel the same is true for animals in the wild, they've had a better life than if they had been raised on a commercial farm (though, I'm not so sure how true this holds in NZ, but I KNOW it's true for the US).

I also don't think vegetarianism will work for the entire human race. It would be worth a try, but we are biologically omnivores, and I fear that with some of the absorption problems certain people have, they would die from deficits in their diet.
I respect vegetarians. I just don't agree it's right for everyone, and I feel that anyone who tries to force it on other people is going to end up unsuccessful.

[ourquest]

I'm just going to say that we shouldn't lump hunters into one big stereotype. Just because something is true for one person in a group does not make it true for another.

I respect vegetarians. I just don't agree it's right for everyone, and I feel that anyone who tries to force it on other people is going to end up unsuccessful.

To the first point, I do agree. Hence my comment in my post about the difficulty of trying to be objective, and the only way we will achieve this is through discussion from a number of contributors. There will always be some general truth in every point of view that we can learn from and move forward with more understanding of each other.

To the second point, I am glad you respect vegetarians, as for many this choice must require some sacrifice, and this alone demonstrates strength of character and strength of conviction. But not at all to say that these traits do not materialise anyway in many people, vegetarian or not. And perhaps this is just semantics, but my suggestion that it might be a more marketed concept in fifty years time is meant literally; ie not that it should be legislated (and therefore forced upon people) but that it might just be far more mentioned in media as a good choice, and so more will choose the option through either fashion or genuine awareness. Just a guess, says nothing about either my current eating habits or anyone else's, and we'll have to wait 50 years to see whether I'm right (not that being right is important to me here...that would be missing the point on my part) and whether this will have any real benefit on our environment.

Forcing a way of eating on people? No, this will always remain each individual's choice (but will most definitely be influenced by their peers). Seeing hunters as all being the same? Perhaps and wrongly so. Of course a group never describes an individual and I would be wrong to think this, but the reverse also applies, that just because there is some environmental benefit to hunting doesn't necessarily make hunters unselfishly motivated. Each person will know what is true for themselves.

[victoria]

Philosophy aside . . . Yep there is hunting all over the place & in the rural areas you'll come across it. In saying that, how far is any town in NZ from the countryside? It's a way of life here. I prefer it to the urban jungle.

[PeteS]

A few points worth considering. The fact that humans introduced the non-indiginous fauna can become an irrelevant point from an ethical point of view, as two wrongs don't make a right. That having been said, it is necessary to protect the existing fauna and flora against this introduced threat and I have to support attempts to do so.

The only way you can protect native F & F is for the non-indigenous flora and fauna to go. The two (native and introduced) do not live happily together. The destructive effect that introduced plant and animal has had, and is still having on native plant and animal population (look at the effect on Kiwi numbers) has to be seen to be believed. Go deep into Fiordland and listen to the birdsong. It's loud, but not as loud as when Cook was here. All of NZ was like that till we released Deer, Pigs, Goats, Ferrets, Weasels, Stoats, Broom, Gorse, Hawthorn, Blackbirds, Sparrows, Thrushes, Pheasants, Trout, Brambles, Pine trees, Sheep, Cattle, etc into the wild. We are destroying this country, and I think we should stop the destruction, and try to reverse the effects. One thing I did notice on our piece of land is that the feral Goats only eat the native plants, not the Broom and Gorse, thus making more room for Broom and Gorse!

Does this make me a tree hugger with a gun and a chainsaw....

[Lupin]

To the OP- we're a sort of vegetarian family (fish eating these days) and I live in the sticks. In a strange way it's less overt here, but perhaps that's because I come from close to the Quantocks in the UK - fox and deer hunting were rife and a Saturday walk could easily be spoilt by the hunt. Most of my friends hunt but they don't go on about it. Boar, possum, rabbits etc are a pest here and a problem but I'm in two minds about hunting. I dunno really, it's not for me is all. I have four pet lambs and I like lentil burgers; I've had no problems being welcomed into our small rural community :)

[dilanium]

Ourquest- that was a wise post and I agree that vegetarianism should be portrayed with a more positive attitude in the media (I would give you more rep if it would let me :) ). I think having cooking shows with more vegetarian options would go a long way towards that.

Also the concept of reducing meat consumption. I know in the US most people eat WAY more meat in a day than they need to, a reduction in meat consumption campaign would probably help that.

A comment of people forcing vegetarianism (and veganism on other people), not meant to be aimed at anyone, or compared to anyone, just sharing something that happened to me once. I was walking to the student center at my university to get some food, and some people (I'm guessing affiliated with PeTA) were handing out fliers with gory pictures from inside slaughter houses. They were trying to get people to stop eating meat to stop that. I said to them that I'm going to be trying to make a difference for those animals too. They got all excited and started talking to me, but seemed to want to stop talking when I explained that a large part of why I want to be a veterinarian is to improve the quality of the lives of the animals up to and including their slaughter (to improve both the quality of their lives, and to improve the quality of the meat). That's fine, I don't mind people being educated on what happens to the animals before they're slaughtered (though the pamphlets were very one sided, and seemed more of a shock tactic). Later, I was eating lunch and saw them openly condemning people for eating meat in the cafeteria, now that's the kind of tactics that really irritate me, and I am opposed to.