[Suzan]

Hi Everyone,

Hope someone can give me some advice. I have been reading on the forum that unless I have a PR visa then I will be charged at customs for the personal belongings coming in on a 20ft container. If I leave my stuff in storage in the UK and then send for it after I have secured a job in New Zealand will I still be charged for it?

Thanks

Sue

[IanW99]

Hi Everyone,

Hope someone can give me some advice. I have been reading on the forum that unless I have a PR visa then I will be charged at customs for the personal belongings coming in on a 20ft container. If I leave my stuff in storage in the UK and then send for it after I have secured a job in New Zealand will I still be charged for it?

Thanks

Sue

The new rules do seem a bit misleading, but you don't need a PR visa.

On arrival in NZ you must hold one of the following:-


A New Zealand Passport
An Australian Passport
A current New Zealand Residence visa or permit or a current New Zealand returning resident's visa or permit
A current permanent residence visa (including a resident return visa) issued by the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia
A current New Zealand work visa or work permit that was issued for a minimum of twelve months
A current New Zealand work visa or permit issued under the Long Term Business Visa policy, that was issued for a minimum of 9 months
A current New Zealand visitor's visa or permit that was issued for a minimum of three years.


If you don't have one of these, then you will be liable to customs charges.

The only suggestion that has been mentioned that might get around this problem would be to leave the country and re-enter when you have the suitable visa which of course may cost you more than the charges. You would also have to be careful of this condition:-

"you have resided or lived outside New Zealand for the whole of the 21 months before the date of your arrival in New Zealand" i.e. if you were granted your PR whilst in NZ then you may fail this?

Ian

[Suzan]

Thanks Ian,

I'll have to pay it then. I'm taking a 20ft'er. Do you have a guestimate of the cost? I'll have the contents of a small 2 bed property and a some diy stuff I keep in my shed. Would it be more than £500?

At the moment I also have a quote for the actual shipping to the destination port only which I am happy with. I still need to arrange the collection from port to address. So if anyone has any experience of arranging this independantly too I would be grateful.

Thanks again in advance.

Sue

[vixxann]

Sue - we are planning to leave our stuff in storage in UK until we have either 12mth work permit or PR (will apply for work permit 1st so hubbie can start work but we may also decide to put PR application in at same time)

Once we have either of above permits we will then ship our stuff over. The shipping companies are happy to do this, they will store for us or we can sort ourselves and they will come and pack from there when ready.

[IanW99]

Sue - we are planning to leave our stuff in storage in UK until we have either 12mth work permit or PR (will apply for work permit 1st so hubbie can start work but we may also decide to put PR application in at same time)

Once we have either of above permits we will then ship our stuff over. The shipping companies are happy to do this, they will store for us or we can sort ourselves and they will come and pack from there when ready.

Is there any reason that you are waiting to ship your goods?

From the 15th November 2007 the rules changed and unless you have one of the documents I listed above when you first arrive in NZ you will be charged regardless of if you wait to ship until you get one. So it would seem pointless to wait to ship your goods.

Or, do you know something else?

Ian

[Suzan]

Hi Vixxann,

I think I am going to put my stuff into storage for a while anyway because I don't think we'll have a permanent place until I can get my PR or Working Visa sorted. Just in case we have to come back because I can't find a job. Hope that doesn't happen though. After visiting for three weeks last November, I am absoutely cannot wait to live there.

I believe Ian is right though about the charges. If they need paying then I will. Sometimes you just have to jump through lots of hoops to realise your dream.

Has anyone got any actual figures on how much I would expect to pay for the effects on an average 2 bed house. I'm not taking TV's/videos, but all other stuff.

Kind Regards

Sue

[vixxann]

right I am officially confused now :confused:
didn't realise the changes meant what you are all saying they mean i.e. its your status on arriving in the country not what permit you end up getting (is that the correct summary?)
am going to have to look into this all over again :(

[Suzan]

Hi Vixxann,

Yes that's the deal. Unfortunately the new rules state (Ian was kind enough to explain previously) that it's you initial entry visa status. I am in the same boat as other people who have skills New Zealand need, but don't have the degree to go with it, and hence can't get the relevant point to apply from the UK. I'm having to go in on the visitors visa and hope I can land a job before the 6 months is up.

Sorry Vixxann.

I'd still like to know roughly how much I should put aside for the taxes though.

Regards

Sue

[randomone]

as for the cost - yes, it will cost more than £500 - more like £2000, I would expect

[vixxann]

okay - can anyone confirm for sure if..
after arriving in NZ on visitor visa then obtaining a work permit or PR - could you leave country (holiday to Oz) and re-enter with stamped passport - then get goods shipped with no GST?

[JoanneG]

aaargh.........another change in the rules!

We're in the same boat.

We have enough to fill a 20ft reefer but if they're going to charge £2,000 on entry on top of the shipping and storage we might as well buy new when we get there!

Anyone got more accurate costs?

[BkyMonster]

It should be approximately $125 NZD per $1000 NZD worth of goods. You'll likely have to pay GST on the cost of having it shipped and insured as well. :( Some items have variable GST charges, less or more than the 12.5%. See here: http://www.customs.govt.nz/travellers/Arriving+in+New+Zealand/Customs+Charges.htm

They do take into account depreciation and age of items (http://www.customs.govt.nz/travellers/Household+Effects/When+Customs+Charges+are+Payable.htm), but who knows if that is calculated in a standard way or if it varies from person to person.

I don't think too many people have experienced the change yet, so it might be best to give customs a ring and see how they plan on calculating your charges.
Maybe they'll just base the charges on a declared value.

I guess I'm glad I'm not bringing much. :roll

[randomone]

sorry I misunderstood - I thought you were asking how much it would be to ship your things over (doh! - - phew, bet that caused your heart to stop for a minute)

[Suzan]

Hi vixxann

According to Ian and I don't doubt him for a second he states "you have resided or lived outside New Zealand for the whole of the 21 months before the date of your arrival in New Zealand" So your trip to Oz may not be enough. Ho hum!

As for the cost....... Thanks for the info Randomone. I'll just make sure I have it covered.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Regards

Sue

[IanW99]

Hi vixxann

According to Ian and I don't doubt him for a second he states "you have resided or lived outside New Zealand for the whole of the 21 months before the date of your arrival in New Zealand" So your trip to Oz may not be enough. Ho hum!

As for the cost....... Thanks for the info Randomone. I'll just make sure I have it covered.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Regards

Sue

Just to clarify, I have no idea whether a trip to Oz would or wouldn't work?

The problem that I can see is that if you are in NZ on a visitors visa then I would think that you would not be considered resident or living in NZ so you would be Ok (not resided in NZ for the previous 21 months), however the problem would be how to leave NZ whilst still on the visitors visa and be able to return with the correct visa?

Ian

[marshanite]

Have just posted under "worried about GST..." having had a conversation with NZ customs on this topic.

Fi (mrs M)

[vixxann]

are any taxes that you have to pay - later refunded when you do get PR??

[marshanite]

Not any more it seems. We missed that ship by 2 or 3 months. I can't see any way around this new legislation, as they want you to get the relevant visa in your home country, before arrival.

Fi.

[vixxann]

Could really do with knowing how this process works (eg. valuations, taxation rates, average totals payable) from someone who has had to pay... do we have anyone yet... Lostock?? KatieJay??

It really is our only route in (visitor visa then work permit in NZ) so this is a major factor for us - may mean whether we bring anything or not :(

[CJ22]

It would be cheaper to put stuff in storage until you get a visa, would't it?

[IanW99]

It would be cheaper to put stuff in storage until you get a visa, would't it?

It would have been before the rule change last November, but now they determine custom charges based on the visa that you had when you entered the country and not any that you changed it to, whilst in NZ.

Ian

[CJ22]

Ah I see. Harsh.

[mike&stef]

Regarding the costs of shipping your stuff, I think further clarification is needed from the customs as to how they value the "price you paid" for your goods and how they could possibly work out any depreciation, (unpack every item and have it valued!?!) however,

Our removal company when asked about it have sent us this letter about a client of theirs;

His container arrived into NZ on the 28th December. Our client has just been billed for $3800 for the BMW and $6900 for his household effects, even though he now has residency, it doesn't count as the new ruling states "From the time the clients first arrived in NZ." As you can imagine he is very upset.

Evidently the only way the client can appeal is to write to the Houses of Parliament in NZ to put their case forward!!!!

Going on a minimum 12.5% GST charge (probably more) his contents and shipping must have come in at about NZ$85000 or £34000 approx.

I just wonder if they will go on your marine insurance value (2.5% of actual value) and if you can provide a few receipts for some high value items but claim the rest is second hand or very old (as most of our stuff is!!) then maybe you might get away with GST charged on shipping £5000 (40ft, were planning on taking everything but the kitchen sink) and contents £15000 working out at about £2500 :wah

I suppose one way to look at it is ;


Most "older" people will at least fill a smaller container with valuable or sentimental stuff so you're going to have to pay at least £500 to £1K for that
If you ditched it and sold it in the UK, it would be virtually worthless and would cost way more than shipping and GST cost to buy in NZ.
Being a "stranger in a strange land" might be a lot more bearable esp. for children if they are surrounded by the familiar at their new home.
Being swamped by the unfamiliar could be the "final straw" and what price if your adventure fails and you return home?


I think we're just going to have to email customs and work out how to get the bill as small as possible, write a strongly worded [begging] letter to the NZ Government, and be prepared to bite the bullet and buy a smaller house!! [funds are very tight!]

Regards Mike:) [still smiling, just financially lighter!!]

[ourquest]

It would have been before the rule change last November, but now they determine custom charges based on the visa that you had when you entered the country and not any that you changed it to, whilst in NZ.

Ian, I cannot get my head around this one. There does not seem to be any logic in this approach from customs. If they are trying to prevent people from arriving and changing their permit status then it is immigration who would set the rules, not customs.

So I contacted the removal company we plan to use and they assure me that the same arrangement as always applies...that once you have legal right to residence you can ship customs-free. He even forwarded an email from an Auckland-based mover who noted that a refundable bond system which used to exist is no longer available, and that now you have to wait for residency/work permit.

But I have read the document you (Ian) quote, and I agree totally with you on the wording...there is no ambiguity unless they left out the words "arrival of your goods" in place of "your arrival".

Surely more people on this forum have heard about this change and have some experience? Was there any info posted on NZIS's website?

[ourquest]

Was there any info posted on NZIS's website?

Yes, there was, back in October and referring to changes to custom's rules effective 15 November 2007. BUT, it made it sound like the rules had eased, and that more people can now import their stuff free of charge. Does not appear to be the case at all.

Again, I agree with Ian that the wording in Custom's policy is unambiguous, and that you have to be arriving in person with the correct visa, to later be able to import your effects, even if your permit status has changed in the meantime.

[mike&stef]

We have contacted customs direct about this and :

Thank you for your further enquiry.

The concession is based on the permit you have in your passport at the time of your arrival not what subsequent permit you may have when the goods arrive. So you will need to have one of the following permits stamped in your passport at the time of your first arrival to New Zealand

(1) A current visa or work permit that was issued for a minimum of 12 months
(2) Permanent Residence Permit
(3) A current work visa or work permit, issued under the Long Term Business Visa Policy of the New Zealand Immigration Service that was issued for minimum of 9 months.

If you have any permit other than the above and issued for a length of time less than those indicated above you will pay tax on any household goods imported. It does not matter what permit you have when the goods arrive it is based on the permit you have at the time of your first arrival to New Zealand.

Ian Perkins

For Comptroller of Customs

This seems very rigid and inflexible but that is the way it is , evidently!!:o

Oh and they calculate depreciation of the value of your goods like this :

The Client Service would work off the purchase price of the goods if you have this less depreciation for ownership and usage usually

0-3 months 10%.

3 -6 months 20%.

6-12 months 33.3%.

12-21 momths 50%.

If not this the second hand value

Then tax usually for household goods 7% on the value.

An gst on the purchase price + the insurance and freight to get the items to New Zealand converted to New Zealand dollars + duty x 12.5%.

This is a guide only.

However they still have not told us WHO is responsible for calculating the value, so yet another e-mail to add to the saga.

Regards Mike

[IanW99]

It is definitely a strange rule and I don't believe to be applied as was intended.

From the way I understand it, if you visit NZ for a holiday before you arrive for residence then under this rule you will still have to pay customs charges because it is based on the first time you enter.

This is clearly not what you would expect and I know that other legislation e.g. driving licenses used to have the same rule but were changed because it was unworkable and putting of tourists.

What I would like to see is the actual legislation that they are using, so far no-one has found out which legislation has been changed?

So, again, if anyone contacts customs about this issue could they please ask the full name of the legislation. At the very least I would like to know what was intended.

Ian

[ldlim]

I sent an email to customs this morning, I will post any response I get back.


From the way I understand it, if you visit NZ for a holiday before you arrive for residence then under this rule you will still have to pay customs charges because it is based on the first time you enter.


I certainly hope this isn't the case, it would cost us 10k to ship our household items and likely another 8k-10k for customs. If so, I will be bringing nothing but my suitcase.

Any suggestions on how to fit 4 mattress sets, 3 dressers and 300 books in a suitcase?

LD

[ourquest]

I sent an email to customs this morning, I will post any response I get back.


Yes, so have I. And I will also give feedback.

[ourquest]

Any suggestions on how to fit 4 mattress sets, 3 dressers and 300 books in a suitcase?



One thing at a time.

[vixxann]

Still watching this thread with interest (and much concern!!)

[ldlim]

I just received an email from customs. I emailed them saying we are arriving for a 3 week visit to do interviews and vacation, then apply for permits.


Thank you for your enquiry,

Firstly if you are coming here for a initial quick visit that is for a holiday then that is only a holiday.

Then after this to qualify you must have one of the following at the time of your arrival, to bring in used personal and household effects.Exempt from tax.

A current residence visa or permit or current returning residents visa or permit

A current permanent residence visa including a resident return visa issued by the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia.

A current work visa or work permit that was issued for a minimum of 12 months .

A current work visa or work permit issued under the long term business visa policy that was issued for a minimum of 9 months.

A current visitors visa or permit that was issued for a minimum of 3 years.


Harry Perkins
for Comptroller of Customs.



:(

So looks like our only option is to come to NZ for a few weeks secure jobs then return to the US and apply for our work permits. This seems like a lot of hassle, not too sure what we will do now.

LD

[IanW99]

I just received an email from customs. I emailed them saying we are arriving for a 3 week visit to do interviews and vacation, then apply for permits.



:(

So looks like our only option is to come to NZ for a few weeks secure jobs then return to the US and apply for our work permits. This seems like a lot of hassle, not too sure what we will do now.

LD

So they are saying that if you arrive on a visitors visa, leave and then return on a suitable visa before your goods arrive then all is ok (this isn't what the website says).

So at least there is an option available, even if not a good one.

Still doesn't really answer the question completely though e.g. is there a length of time that you have to be out of the country for first? Or can you leave, get the new visa in your passport and return straight away?

Who's visa do they consider e.g. if you are a couple and your OH doesn't arrive until after they have the appropriate visa then can all the personal belongings be brought in under their name so no custom charges, or do you have to work out each persons belongings costs?

Ian

[vixxann]

Who's visa do they consider e.g. if you are a couple and your OH doesn't arrive until after they have the appropriate visa then can all the personal belongings be brought in under their name so no custom charges, or do you have to work out each persons belongings costs?


this is exactly what I have been thinking....

I think there are just too many queries here for this to work smoothly for customs/immigration. For example what about if my family arrived in NZ for holiday - secured work and applied for 12mth permit - then left to oz for a holiday and coming back into NZ with passports stamped???

I cannot afford to pay thousands (on top of shipping) to bring in our effects but I have things I cannot bear to part with and really wanted to bring :(

[ldlim]

Unfortunately I can't seem to get solid clarification on this.

After talking with hub and then calling immigration today I was told we all have to leave NZ and return under the appropriate visa. This didn't sound correct to me.

When asked how long we would have to be out of NZ before returning the gal I spoke to said there was no time frame we had to be out of NZ. When I referred to the 21 months as stated in the customs information she said that was untrue.

I gave her a hypothetical situation:

Family all arrive in NZ, visit for 3 weeks and we secure jobs. We leave NZ, apply for our work permits and return a few weeks later. Would we be charged any sort of duty on our household items.

She said "No".

Still having to pack the family up and return to the US and then return back to NZ (6k in airfare), not sure what we will do. I am really just waiting to see the results of someone actually attempting this.

LD

[ourquest]

My follow-up isn't going to be helpful either. I have received the same confirmation from customs that we must have arrived with an appropriate visa allowing long term stay in NZ to avoid paying duties.

The 21 month rule does make some sense I think. I interpret it as follows; you must have been resident outside of NZ for the preceding 21 months. This still allows you to travel to NZ for say 3 months, arrange employment, and then return to your home country and wait for your work permit or PR before returning to NZ. Your three month visit would not be residency, specifically because you would have held a "visitor's permit" and in legal terms still resident in your home country at that time. So in this scenario you would not have been resident in NZ for the preceding 21 months and when your stuff arrives you won't be charged duty.

Hence Idlim's email from customs saying "if you go on a holiday then it is just that, a holiday". Again, in legal terms a holiday is not residency.

So to summarise, what this ruling does do is annoy those of us who wish to arrive on holiday and never leave again, having obtained our permits allowing us to stay in NZ whilst we are in NZ.

I still think it strange, as NZIS do not prejudice us this way at all, and in fact one of the circumstances under which they will grant an extended visitor's visa is if a first time application for residence is pending and likely to be granted during the extension!! So clearly they do not mind us being there...