[Tia Maria]

I often see people pointing out that plenty of NZers manage on a lower wage than us expats expect. So I thought I'd start a thread of real life examples. I know its hard to resist, but try to avoid guessing or assuming, and only use examples of people you know.

So to start, of the NZers I know, some of the ways they manage on a lower wage are:

1) No need to pay for childcare as they have family
2) Do a lot of 'cash in hand' and 'off the books' work
3) Bring back cash from working in OZ

Cheers

Tia

[Kim39]

I have been told Tia on numerous occasions, that they also max themselves on credit cards.

Kim

[Potato]

Yeah, I asked once and the guy said "live off credit, just like everyone else".

Another thing I noticed is that a lot of them wise up with respect to food. For example, making use of your daily seafood quota.

Fishing in general. Not restricted to just rural areas either.

Good mates with a hunter? Get a good deal for venison from him (eg 40kg for $40 or something like that).

I guess a lot of it comes down to contacts, who you know, favours and what-not. Knowing how to get cheap or "free" food would cut a heck of a lot off your expenses.

[Lupin]

I've got friends who are a family of five living on about 50K with a $280K mortgage- they seem to get everything on interest free credit and use credit cards to the max :(

[Lupin]

And they do lots of 'cash' work too.

[ellenmelon]

im a kiwi, living with my irish partner..no kids, pets etc.we do have a few months that we seem to 'blow out' and we feel it! im a student also so its pretty rough sometimes. im not eligible for any 'free' money from the govt ie student allowance.
richie has a credit card, i dont. i hope to never own one as im in enough debt as it is from my student loan!
big things money wise would be: broadband (we spend less on movies etc as we d/l them..and richie works in a dvd store so we get free films), my car (neccessary as i do 13/14 hour days at drama school sometimes and public transport is well finished for the night), grocery shopping and electricity.
richies credit card is not awesome after christmas but its under a grand anyway. my loan is yucky but oh well!
we dont go out on the town at all really..we have completely different schedules when im at uni so it just wouldnt work. i dont drink either and my partner buys beer/wine on special at the supermarket.
when i buy clothes, i go to the warehouse (there is some really nice stuff there now..wouldnt have touched the place five years ago) or put stuff on laybuy and pay it off at 5 bucks a week or something. that is on the rare occasion that i do buy clothes!

all in all we're pretty broke and it can be really miserable but i know that when i graduate it will be a lot better and we wont have to question every single purchase we make!

[LesleyS]

From my OH's experiences working soley with NZ'ers in the building trade at the mo they:

Go fishing - a lot and cook what they eat.
Never buy new clothes.
Share homes with other guys to afford the rent.
Don't do holidays or meals out - just tins from the fridge and BBQ's.
Roll their own cigarettes.
Never buy new vehicles.
Don't have a particularly 'well balanced' diet.
Never visit the dentist unless absolutely neccessary. :(
Max out the credit card - and always buy in the Sale.

[willsken]

OH has been asked to do some work for someone in exchange for him making and fitting the new kitchen we need.

[5kings]

What a great thread, and an eye opener too!
Our credit rating isn't great, so don't think we'd get a credit card over there if we wanted!!

I think I will have to learn the fine art of fishing. I think most of the other things we already do, rarely go out, buy clothes when desperate, we just want to be able to afford the basics without stressing about where our rent is coming from.

More research needed methinks.

Helen

[colindp]

5kings,
It pains me to say that my credit rating in the UK was awful however that did not present any probs in NZ and I was offered a card when I completed the opening of our bank account...Came in very handy at times!! :nice1

[Red Devil]

... blimey, are things that bad in NZ :confused: ... makes me wonder why we're all trying our best to make it over there ;)

[ellenmelon]

... blimey, are things that bad in NZ :confused: ... makes me wonder why we're all trying our best to make it over there ;)

people all over the world are living outside their means. i still feel that NZ isnt is bad as Ireland, where a lot of people don't own many of their possesions (cars, tv,dvd, whiteware etc)outright, everything is on credit. This is especially the case with cars as it is a status symbol to have the newest licence plate on your car eg '08-LK-2345' year of registration(i think?)-county its registered in-reg number. its crazy!

[Red Devil]

... I hear what you're saying, but we've always gone with the motto "what we can't afford, we can't have" but when push comes to shove I guess some folk have to use the 'old plastic'. If we need something but can't afford it at the time, we just simply save up and wait until we can afford it... makes us appreciate things more too.

[whiskythedog]

Really good thread as it has always bugged me how kiwis seem to have a reasonable standard of living but on much lower salaries and also own a number of properties.
I have noticed that they probably would not spend as much on their annual holidays as they may go camping and generally I don't think the cars are as flashy as there are some old bangers on the roads.

[ellenmelon]

... I hear what you're saying, but we've always gone with the motto "what we can't afford, we can't have" but when push comes to shove I guess some folk have to use the 'old plastic'. If we need something but can't afford it at the time, we just simply save up and wait until we can afford it... makes us appreciate things more too.

definately agree..id rather have it and own it outright than have my bill guilt me at the end of the month! i love the feeling of making the last payment on something, i really feel like ive earned it! i think if you're going to use the Plastic Saviour (tm :D) use it wisely or in emergencies..

[b&k]

On the whole, Kiwis are less materalistic and are happy to make do.

[vixxann]

On the whole, Kiwis are less materalistic and are happy to make do.


To be honest that why I want to live there - I cannot stand the "got to have" attitude most people have in UK. I work in a school and its so sad to see it rubbing off on the kids who NEED everything from PS3s to latest fashions (that normally look indecent) :uhoh

[Pookeko]

That's not to say that "little wants and needs" don't rub off on kids in NZ either ;)

I am looking forward to getting away from "latest must-haves" dominated culture At least, I really hope NZ hasn't changed like that.:uhoh I think being a NZer I have been lucky enough not to buy-into that aspect of UK lifestyle here. But I'm looking forward to not being the only person in the office who feels that way :laugh

Anyway if there's one thing you learn from moving is that it's better to have LESS possessions :D (and also it's amazing what you don't need, to get by!)

[BkyMonster]

I must say that a lot of the financial expectations of some people really baffle me. I don't mean that in a bad way it just doesn't make sense to me.
We've been living for years on a salary under US 30K (About NZ 40K) while putting my husband through school and owning a house. It hasn't really been a problem even though I live in a mildly expensive area (average home price around 300k USD) in a state with a bad tax structure. When I hear people feeling like 80k NZD is barely scraping by I can't help but boggle and worry that I am missing something fundamental. :confused:

[Belmont Babes]

Becky, completely agree!

[Tia Maria]

On the whole, Kiwis are less materialistic and are happy to make do.

Are they really happy to make do or do they have to? I'm not saying you're wrong but I've got plenty of Kiwi mates who are incredibly unhappy about their old estate car.

Pookeko wrote:

I am looking forward to getting away from "latest must-haves" dominated culture At least, I really hope NZ hasn't changed like that. I think being a NZer I have been lucky enough not to buy-into that aspect of UK lifestyle here. But I'm looking forward to not being the only person in the office who feels that way

There are definitely crazes here, but on a smaller scale than in the UK - so far. Ones that I know of, children wise, Pumpkin Patch clothes, Crocs shoes, scooters (quite a few electric) and marbles (very sweet!). Also the latest mobile for teenagers.

BkyMonster wrote:

When I hear people feeling like 80k NZD is barely scraping by I can't help but boggle and worry that I am missing something fundamental.

A few things spring to mind. Firstly for a lot of people it costs a lot of their savings just to get here and set up. It can then cost $8000 for a trip back for a family, not sure how many months wage that is on $80,000, but for many its very important to see their family every couple of years and this is an expense you wouldn't have had previously.

Often people look at property on the internet and are pleased with what they can afford, when they get here they often have to downsize their options or up their budget (in other words mortgage), when faced with the reality. Many take a pay cut in real terms, in other words less disposable income after all the bills are paid. This can be difficult to adjust to.

There are plenty of people who don't have a problem, with that kind of wage, but plenty do. You can either take the opinion that they are all designer buying, Porsche driving, caviar eating individuals or understand there may be a few other elements at play here.

Cheers

Tia

[Tia Maria]

whiskythedog - that's a good one about holidays. Many Kiwis I know go to visit family for their annual holiday, but why wouldn't you when family live in the Coromandal, Bay of Islands or Rotorua?!

Another one I thought of is the ones I've met who have cashed in on the property boom. Round here there have been houses bought for $300,000 about 7 years ago, now selling for $900,000. I met one bloke who'd sold up from Devonport and moved quite a lot further North and no longer had a mortgage. He said the longer commute (just over an hour) was worth it, if us lot (I think he meant Brits :) ), were mad enough to pay those prices.

Cheers

Tia

[Nick88]

On the whole, Kiwis are less materalistic and are happy to make do.

I agree with Tia Maria, Kiwis are not necessarily happy to make do. If they had incomes that could support a more lavish lifestyle I think they would do it. They have just resigned themselves to having to make do.

If they were genuinely that happy why did 40,758 leave in the year to Nov07? They can earn 35% more in Aus, and afford to buy more stuff and save more money. Clearly, Kiwis consume less simply because that is all they can afford.

[Alan]

If they were genuinely that happy why did 40,758 leave in the year to Nov07? They can earn 35% more in Aus, and afford to buy more stuff and save more money. Clearly, Kiwis consume less simply because that is all they can afford.

Personally I believe that to be a very simplistic view, there are many reasons that Kiwi's leave their homeland and one of the biggest is that there are not enough jobs for the young graduates to fulfil their ambitions and aspirations on leaving university. So they can go to Europe or wherever, get paid better, get jobs that look stunning on their CV and come back when they are in their 30's/40's and get a job that is probably somewhat higher paid and a higher level than if they had stayed put.

Of course some will want more that is inevitable but the paranoia amongst parents and the level of people trying to keep up with their neighbour etc in the UK is really hitting new heights, it is quite incredible and even going on holiday recently to the U.S. there is nothing close to it.

[Pookeko]

Well looking on the bright side, what we do have a lot of in NZ is plenty of lovely nature to enjoy, which is free* :nice1
No matter how "hard up" you are the beach/bush is there for all to enjoy. :raebanana

(*except for costly whale sighting adventures etc!! :/ )

Maybe that explains why there isn't a lot else to do. No money to spend on it!! ;)

[dharder]

On the whole, Kiwis are less materalistic and are happy to make do.

Doesn't seem true where we live, though, and I think it might actually depend quite a lot on where you live.

We moved from no money area (East London) to upper/middle class here in Auckland, and I find everyone more materialistic, the cars bigger and flasher, the fences around the houses higher and the alarm systems more elaborate.

It probably would have been the same had we moved from East London to West London, but I'm just saying that I find the above statement a bit too generalised. I think you'd have to look carefully at what you compare with what.

I also haven't personally encountered anyone struggling financially (apart from us, I'm sure) but I've probably just met the wrong people :)

Daniela

[Nick88]

Personally I believe that to be a very simplistic view, there are many reasons that Kiwi's leave their homeland and one of the biggest is that there are not enough jobs for the young graduates to fulfil their ambitions and aspirations on leaving university. So they can go to Europe or wherever, get paid better, get jobs that look stunning on their CV and come back when they are in their 30's/40's and get a job that is probably somewhat higher paid and a higher level than if they had stayed put.

Doing an OE (overseas experience) is a factor, I admit, Alan. However I personnally know a few people who have left for Aus and have no intention of coming back for the foreseeable future. They are all families, a couple in their 30s or 40s with children, they are leaving to earn more and have a higher standard of living.

[jubjub]

I see this website quoted quite a lot on another forum I use

http://www.simplesavings.co.nz/

They just take the free advice from it.

Another little trick is to take wood from anywhere thats advertising it for free on the roadside and store it for winter for the log burner (if you have one!) we had work done on a tree this year and already have a good start to the log pile!

I have come across a couple of lovely families here that struggle no end money wise, and are quite open about it, it does get them down, but they make the best of it.

Making use of any WINZ entitlements and any tax working for families benefits that they are able to claim. One family live mortgage free, but have no money coming in due to maternity leave and an injury to the husband, they are having a real hard time but she works hard making everything from scratch and is lucky enough to get free veggies from her parents shop.

Another family is a single parent and she is taking in lodgers, and now has managed to squeeze two flatmates in with her and her daughter.

Another woman I have met at a music can only buy stuff from the opshop as thats all they can afford, as they have chosen to live in a nice area with a good size mortgage.

I have to say that I am very glad DH earns a good wage, and even though we have a mortgage we can afford everything we need, and occasionally some of the things we want.

[LesleyS]

Is it me or do a lot of New Zealander's have large families to support too!
Since we have moved into this rental, 3 families have moved into the same road, two of them have 5 children and one has 4 - what kind of financial support could they expect to receive from the government?

[Tia Maria]

JubJub - that reminds me that I'd been introduced to the idea of toy libraries and getting magazines from the library by my kiwi mates. Also I know of a few people who supplement their income by 'getting in' foreign students.

I know of someone who has bought a bach with his brothers and someone who has bought one with their in-laws. I've also noticed a lot of Kiwis own boats and other 'water toys'. Not sure how they afford this but I know one guy bought a boat cheap and is using his DIY skills to make it seaworthy.

Most Kiwi families I know have both partners working in one way or another. Same with expat families that have been here a while.

Lesley S - I've also noticed a lot of expats who emigrate here have bigger families too. back in the UK the average family in my son's class had 2 children, here they have 3 or 4 children.

Cheers

Tia

[Familyofmonkeys]

I've also noticed a lot of Kiwis own boats and other 'water toys'.

I have been wondering how many afford these too. Many of our neighbours seem to have boats, but when I have seem them advertised for sale, they often seem to cost more than new cars....even second hand old ones.



Most Kiwi families I know have both partners working in one way or another. Same with expat families that have been here a while.

So do those of you at home with kids (like me :) ) intent do go back to full time work once your kids are at school...or are you finding that you can manage without the extra money?



I've also noticed a lot of expats who emigrate here have bigger families too. back in the UK the average family in my son's class had 2 children, here they have 3 or 4 children.


I have noticed this alot too....although it seems to me that it applies more to some racial groups than others. I also noticed at my daughters Kindy that alot of grandparents pick up children at lunchtime....so it would seem that alot of larger families benefit from family support.

[zardell]

Firstly for a lot of people it costs a lot of their savings just to get here and set up. It can then cost $8000 for a trip back for a family, not sure how many months wage that is on $80,000, but for many its very important to see their family every couple of years and this is an expense you wouldn't have had previously.

Often people look at property on the internet and are pleased with what they can afford, when they get here they often have to downsize their options or up their budget (in other words mortgage), when faced with the reality. Many take a pay cut in real terms, in other words less disposable income after all the bills are paid. This can be difficult to adjust to


Absolutely spot on Tia.

:nice1

Julie

xx

[zardell]

Personally I believe that to be a very simplistic view, there are many reasons that Kiwi's leave their homeland and one of the biggest is that there are not enough jobs for the young graduates to fulfil their ambitions and aspirations on leaving university.



Mmm...that sounds a bit like the UK to me.

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Can I ask those who see NZ as having many people struggling financially here, did you not notice the same thing in the UK? I had so many friends there that found it really hard to make ends meet and were in debt up to the eyeballs. Also the poverty in evidence on some of the estates there was terrible. I see poverty here but I also see evidence of a lot of people having plenty of money. Please treat this as it's meant, a genuine question.

[Sam B]

There seem to be plenty of people with pots of money here in Cambridge, and lots of people doing ok, but in Tokoroa where I work, the poverty is more extreme than anywhere I worked in the UK.

[willsken]

Out of interest, again, where in the UK did you work Sam? I am thinking of a certain estate we drove though around London and it was terrible. I was shocked to see people living the way they were.

[zardell]

Can I ask those who see NZ as having many people struggling financially here, did you not notice the same thing in the UK? I had so many friends there that found it really hard to make ends meet and were in debt up to the eyeballs..


Of course - you are quite right.

I think that one of my brother-in-laws back in the UK would fall into the 'Up to the Eyeballs in Debt' category, however I believe that his predicament is through his own making, with his 'Must Have it Now' attitude.

I know that out of the friends I made in NZ (of any nationality) if they were in debt, they were so purely because they had used credit to survive, only to find that once you are on that roundabout it's very, very difficult to get off.

Have to say though, that I agree with a previous poster who said that a lot of money has been made on the property market, but I suppose you could say that about the UK too couldn't you.

What will always fascinate me though, is that (IMO only!!) the Kiwi lives in a house that maybe isn't as comfortable as it could be, but he's got a 4x4 and a boat in the drive. Maybe folks priorities are just different eh?


Julie

xx

[willsken]

Of course - you are quite right.

I think that one of my brother-in-laws back in the UK would fall into the 'Up to the Eyeballs in Debt' category, however I believe that his predicament is through his own making, with his 'Must Have it Now' attitude.

Julie

xx

Yes, thinking about it, that's pretty true of most of the friends I was talking about.

[Carol]

I remember very clearly when we first came here thinking how SQUEAKY mean kiwis appeared to be.

Every purchase had to be justified and if they could save a few cents here and there they would do it.
I have been laughed at many times for wasting money on central heating
"toughen up Pom" a familiar expression!

Also - and this still applies today - if we went out for a drink in a group and drank in rounds, you could guarantee they would the ones at the back with their hands in their pockets waiting to be bought a drink And they usually had to be reminded it was their round at some point in the evening.

Now after a number of years of being here - I know why.

They are all paying off their mortgages asap.
Every last dollar goes on it. With a view to being "mortgage free" asap.

And honestly.... I hardly know any with credit card debt!
:uhoh

[Tia Maria]

I suspect the question itself comes from migrants seeing a salary range which is said to be what your average kiwi earns, then seeing that there are migrants earning more than the average but still not coping.

I think for some the inability to cope on a NZ wage comes from the very nature of being new to any country. Someone from NZ doesn't have to shell out for a big overseas holiday every couple of years just to see their mum, they might not have to pay for after school care as granny does it, they may not have to pay for holiday accommodation in NZ as they have plenty of friends and family to call on. They also won't have had to deal with the moving expenses, buying a new car and house expenses, all in one go.

In addition I have met very few expats who haven't had to take a paycut for at least the first couple of years, while they gain NZ experience. So its not so much the case of comparing the relative wealth of different countries but examining how a local can be coping financially when a migrant might not.

For me personally we have found ourselves in the situation of our mortgage being the same percentage of our monthly wage in NZ as it was in the UK. However, it is hard to cover all the other monthly expenses and we've not paid into a pension since we've been here - something we'd have never done in the UK (I don't know if many NZers have pensions or not?). So for me, NZ seems a more expensive place to live and as a result I do part time work from home, once again something I never wanted to do while the kids were so young.

Cheers

Tia

[willsken]

This seems like a good idea! :D

http://www.tradetosave.co.nz/general/general/personal-bartering-examples.html

[Tia Maria]

This seems like a good idea! :D

http://www.tradetosave.co.nz/general/general/personal-bartering-examples.html

Brilliant link!

So what skill would everyone barter for what?

Cheers

Tia

[Sam B]

Willsken, I worked in Moston, Manchester, Moss Side Manchester, Strelley - Nottingham and Camborne - Cornwall. Different variations on poverty in each place. Tokoroa doesn't have the burned out cars, graffitti and empty syringes of some of these places, but people just don't have much at all there really on the whole, every school in the area is decile 1, the shops reflect the area, the housing is almost uniformly of the uninsulated wooden shed variety, children are barefoot to school in winter etc etc.

[talisker]

For some reason the title of this thread makes me think of that Fawlty Towers episode with the psychiatrists : "How often do you and your wife manage it?" etc

[vixxann]

This seems like a good idea! :D

http://www.tradetosave.co.nz/general/general/personal-bartering-examples.html

What a fantastic site :yes
I'll def be using that when we eventually get there

I could trade OHs buildings skills for something like a massage (for me!):p

[Red Devil]

Tokoroa doesn't have the burned out cars, graffitti and empty syringes of some of these places, but people just don't have much at all there really on the whole, every school in the area is decile 1, the shops reflect the area, the housing is almost uniformly of the uninsulated wooden shed variety, children are barefoot to school in winter etc etc.

... that surprises me, what with it being relatively close to a tourist hotspot like Rotorua.

[Pookeko]

I suspect the question itself comes from migrants seeing a salary range which is said to be what your average kiwi earns, then seeing that there are migrants earning more than the average but still not coping.

I think for some the inability to cope on a NZ wage comes from the very nature of being new to any country. Someone from NZ doesn't have to shell out for a big overseas holiday every couple of years just to see their mum, they might not have to pay for after school care as granny does it, they may not have to pay for holiday accommodation in NZ as they have plenty of friends and family to call on. They also won't have had to deal with the moving expenses, buying a new car and house expenses, all in one go.

In addition I have met very few expats who haven't had to take a paycut for at least the first couple of years, while they gain NZ experience. So its not so much the case of comparing the relative wealth of different countries but examining how a local can be coping financially when a migrant might not.


I think you are right Tia, we found this when we moved to the UK. We didn't have any family to babysit, etc. We also paid for any jobs we coudn't do to the house ourselves since we didn't have any family who could help us out, etc. It certainly does make everything much more expensive. Plus as you say the lack of same-country work experience puts you (or can put you) on the back foot to start off with.

We also chose not to live in London where many other Kiwis live since we wanted to know about "English life". :D Good points and bad points to that but it's meant that we have had rely on ourselves, which has been a challenging but positive experience (on the whole!... :D ). We are both glad to be going back to NZ for the next few years though, in so far as we will have that network around us again, even if its just knowing that there are people who care about us living down the road.

I think it's a brave thing to move countries, no matter the distance. But usually the type of person who emigrates is the type of person who has some vision and some (literally) get-up-and-go :D and "where there's a will there's a way" attitude, which serves you very well in a new country.

[Andy-Dee]

What a fantastic site :yes
I'll def be using that when we eventually get there

I could trade OHs buildings skills for something like a massage (for me!):p

Does anyone need a kidney?? OH still got two!! :D

[Tia Maria]

What a fantastic site :yes
I'll def be using that when we eventually get there

I could trade OHs buildings skills for something like a massage (for me!):p

Did you see one lady is offering Pole Dancing lessons? :D

Andy-Dee wrote:

Does anyone need a kidney?? OH still got two!!

:laugh

Cheers

Tia

[jo b]

Tia did you see the one which offered tarot card readings for 'casual and personal services':exit

[Red Devil]

:laugh :laugh

[Moorf]

Someone mentioned that despite living in a somewhat dilapidated house, some Kiwis have boats and jetskis parked outside and a wee bach or hut somewhere.

This is so true!

I've been amazed at friends and neighbours who, through my British eyes, seem to have a somewhat basic (sometimes less than basic!!) house and lifestyle yet, open their four-car garage (which is often same floor space as house!) and there's a hamilton jetboat (v.common round here), kayak, trailer, fully kitted out 4x4 (albeit an old one), ride on lawn-mower, a couple of trial bikes and a weird contraption they've made from old oildrums to burn rubbish in... priorities eh!

Fuel - Many (probably most actually), scavenge for wood from locally known felled forests (making way for dairy - don't get me started on that) at the roadside - the rule seems to be that if you don't use a power tool to gather the wood it's ok. The no-no is to take any obviously felled and cut wood in paddocks etc - worth asking your neighbours which areas are ok to go to. Much appears to be who you know and being in the know round here - another great reason to get to know your neighbours. It's amazing what you'll find out!

Pine cone collecting appears to be a local hobby!!

"It's on special" - never have I heard so much talk of supermarket specials as I have here in NZ! It's like I must be the stupidest woman in the village if I hadn't heard of, and taken advantage of, a special offer in the local store!! Lots of tutting....

Food/Brands - my surrogate-mum neighbour shudders at the brands I buy, she'll buy the basic brand going. Most also have veggie gardens - even when we lived in Chch our neighbours grew fruit and/or veggies. Quite a few have their own stills here (neighbour made FAB gin!). We collect food whenever we visit others nearby - rarely do we leave without a hunk of broccoli or onions or something in season from the veggie patch being given to us.

Holidays - local, local and local. They do seem to take full advantage of their environment and travel round NZ alot. Although, one thing I've noticed is that many here haven't been to the N.Island despite living here all their life - they may have flown in and out of Auckland or Welly but there's a real "stay in the South Island" attitude I've found. Quite a few have a bach or hut, or they know someone who does and borrow it, or they wild camp, perhaps run an old bus to camp in (a guy in the village has a huge old bus with a pot-bellied coal stove in it.. it's fab!) or even sleep in their cars (why hire a Spaceship (http://www.spaceships.tv)when a Scooby estate, a mattress and an iPod will do :D )!!!

Of course, all the references I've made above are from my personal experience of Kiwis - and that's from rural Canterbury. ;) When I refer to jetboats I don't mean polished fibreglass, latest models - they're 1970's contraptions running on re-vamped car engines.... :D but who cares!

Entertainment - I have NO IDEA how many appearm to be able to afford to go out and get bladdered at weekends (whether at local pub or in town) - it's so easy to blow $$$$$$$'s....

Practicality - Kiwis can be very practical and often solve their own problems - although not always in the best fashion!! They'd rather have a go themselves than pay a man to do it. We're much, much more practical and have-a-go than we ever were in the UK (I even clean my own windows now :o ) - mostly because we just can't afford to get someone in on a whim.....

[pinkpiggy]

... that surprises me, what with it being relatively close to a tourist hotspot like Rotorua.

As I understand it, Tokoroa in years gone by was almost a city, with a huge saw mill. However over the years the mill has got smaller and smaller putting lots of people out of work, resulting in many of them moving away. The mill is still in existence but it is expected to close at some point in the not too distant future. This was told to me last week by a colleague who has several clients in the region. She said a lot of people don't want to leave because they were born and bred their.

[kowhai]

You're quite right about Tokoroa pinkpiggy. Tokoroa pretty much sprung up in the 1950's - 60s to house the mill and dam workers. My brother in law is from there , and despite its ups and downs has a wonderful community spirit. My family attended a large funeral there recently. The hospitality shown by the predominately Maori and Cook Island people was amazing. To be able to feed at least 600 people at short notice with such warmth and apparent ease , left me a Pakeha NZer humbled. Lots of accommodation was provided too - willingly and with great grace.
Going to school in bare feet isnt really an issue here in NZ - I used to too - although it can certainly get very cold in Tokoroa in the winter !

[Tia Maria]

kowhai wrote:

Going to school in bare feet isnt really an issue here in NZ - I used to too - although it can certainly get very cold in Tokoroa in the winter !

I don't think its the going to school in bare feet that is the issue, its the not having money for shoes in the first place.

Cheers

Tia

[kowhai]

NB : When I say feed - I forgot to mention it was a HUGE banquet style, sit down meal. No sammies or teacakes!

[kowhai]

Fair enough comment about the shoes Tia Maria. Its also possibly a cultural thing too.

[JandM]

Fair enough comment about the shoes Tia Maria. Its also possibly a cultural thing too.

I think so, from what I know of children in my d-i-l's family. They are very often barefoot from preference, certainly not necessity. The school the elder ones go to insists that everyone wears shoes as part of the uniform, but very often they kick them off at some point during the day, and unthinkingly go home without them. Then they have to confess next morning and get scolded before they can reclaim them.

[Tia Maria]

Oh yes, definitely one of the first cultural things my kids picked up and the lost property at school is like Imelda Marcos's personal stash. Personally I can't get use to it and constantly follow them around saying things like 'watch out for the do pooh', 'mind that broken glass' and I'm getting a dab hand at dealing with prickles in feet.

But I think Sam B's reference to Tokoroa and kids going barefoot in winter is referring to the level of poverty (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong :) ).

I think this is a fantastic charity:

www.kidscan.org.nz

It shows a list of schools it supports and it makes this statement about its 'shoes for kids' programme:

This programme was launched on 30th May at Rata Street School in Wellington to support children who come to school without shoes. New KidsCan ambassadors James Franklin and Jeetan Patel came along to hand out the first 60 of 2000 pairs of shoes that will be distributed to children throughout New Zealand this winter.

Our partner schools tell us the lack appropriate footwear is a significant issue for thousands of children in winter. ‘Shoes for Kids’ is a natural extension of our 'Raincoats for Kids' initiative. Number 1 shoes is the major sponsor of 'Shoes for Kids' and we welcome them aboard as a Leading Light partner.

The aim of the ‘Shoes for Kids’ programme is to...

• To provide shoes and socks to disadvantaged children to keep their feet safe, warm and dry
• To reduce foot injury and foot infections
• To help reduce ill health in disadvantaged children associated with exposure to cold and / or wet weather
• To ensure children arrive at school warm and in a better position to learn

Cheers

Tia

[Sam B]

Yes you're right Tia - my own children are barefoot most of the year now, but it is much colder in Tok and I don't think the children are in barefeet on freezing cold days out of choice all the time. But Kowhai is right, the community spirit in Tok is great, and I love working here. But houses are very cold, no insulation, and I have never come across such high incidences of upper respiratory tract infections and the associated hearing problems as I have here in Tok. Poverty is definitely a big issue, but the community spirit helps.