[Jo Jo]

Oh no!


The Environment Court has banned the Swedish-headquartered furniture business from being a tenant in Redwood's new Mt Wellington venture because its stores are so popular it is feared traffic chaos will ensue.

"Ikea stores are known to have high traffic-generating characteristics," the Environment Court ruled in allowing Redwood's new shopping centre. "Accordingly, they have been specifically excluded from allowable retail activities in this consent."



Whole story here. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10490969)

[Croft]

Well, if you've ever been to the Croydon IKEA in London you'd know what they mean!!!

It tends to be a symptom of one IKEA serving to large an area though - the Croydon branch is the closest for anyone living South of London - a substantial percentage of the UK population. North London has 3 - we used to go to the Wembley one when we lived near there and it was like a breath of fresh air compared to the packed crowds at Croydon.

Thank goodness they're opening a new store in Southampton soon (which incidentally we're living near now - and there's going to be a new Costco!!).

Funnily enough, IKEA in continental Europe doesn't really have this problem - more choice of this kind of furniture I guess.

[RamblingPaddies]

are there any IKEA stores in NZ at all then ?

[Croft]

are there any IKEA stores in NZ at all then ?

None - nearest is in Australia.

[CJ22]

Nuts. I love Ikea.

[macuser]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Terrible news

[Alan]

Great move Ikea has gone from offering well made but cheap furniture to MDF pap IMO, however I agree that the marketplace areas are very dangerous to your wallet!

[Croft]

Great move Ikea has gone from offering well made but cheap furniture to MDF pap IMO, however I agree that the marketplace areas are very dangerous to your wallet!

I think you've always had to be careful with the furniture, we've had both good and bad. Where it consistently scores highly is indeed in the marketplace!

[Dom]

I hate IKEA - it's always packed, you cannot get what you want quickly - instead you have to follow their predefined maze throught every section of the store until you get to your bit, then continue through all the rest until you get to the checkout.

It's full of people who don't actually seem to be buying anything but instead see it as some sort of day out for the family ...

I'm glad there is no IKEA in NZ !! :clap

[xanctus]

This kind of act from the govt makes me wonder, how can NZ will ever go forward fast enough to compete with neighbour Australia in terms of economy.
correct me if I am wrong, I am no economics specialist, but man...a store like IKEA should have been opened long time ago here in NZ.

[fruitfly]

From what I understand, Ikea is not banned in NZ, they just can't set up their business at the originally designated location in Auckland. Banning a company is against free trade and NZ is high on the world free trade list.

[Nick88]

Xanctus, you are absolutely right. This sort of short sightedness from bureaucrats is one of the things that has helped to hobble NZ when compared to Aus. It contributes to the 'lifestyle' factors that makes Aus appear more attractive to Kiwis, if nothing else.

[Moorf]

I only used to go for the meatballs, chips and gravy :D oh, and bulk packs of Dime bars!

[jubjub]

I remember when the one opened in Glasgow.... it was chaos. I used to brave it on a weekday morning occasionally as it wasnt too bad, but any other time you could hardly get in the car park!

IMO Mt Welly area could not take that amount of extra traffic, its bad enough with Sylvia Park at a weekend.

The other suggestion a while back was Albany, but I am not sure the transport links there are any more able to cope.

Ah well, guess I will just have to live without it, managed for 3 years, so it cant be that important to me! LOL Edited to add... I did bring all my ikea stuff with me in the first place though!

[Anita & Marco]

There is absolutely no need for Ikea in my humble opinion. Let's go for 'NZ Made', wouldn't that make more sense?

Why should all of the world look the same?
I did not come to live in NZ to see all the same stuff as overseas - and please, NZ, don't copy Ozzie, because you will always loose.

And to the immigrants, try to adapt to all the other stuff here, without sticking to the 'known' stuff - it makes life really more interesting. However, this is just my thoughts.

Anita

[Moorf]

Let's go for 'NZ Made', wouldn't that make more sense?

:clap

But..

Unfortunately, many Kiwis have little choice but to vote with their wallets, if IKEA's stuff is still cheap when it hits NZ shores I think it'll be very popular.

[LesleyS]

OH and I hated Ikea when we lived in the UK (Leeds). Some Sunday's the queue to get into the car park caused chaos on the slip road from the M62. And I agree that on the occasions we did try it, it seemed like it was full of people just looking (day out syndrome).
Probably one of the reasons we didn't like the goods was our ages (late 40's) Most of the stuff look liked it is designed for the younger end of the market.
However, given the poor choice of furniture stores here, I think they should be given a chance to see what they can do!

[Anita & Marco]

:clap

But..

Unfortunately, many Kiwis have little choice but to vote with their wallets, if IKEA's stuff is still cheap when it hits NZ shores I think it'll be very popular.

That is even a better reason to keep them away from here!!
As soon as they are going to produce all their products in NZ I will be in favour of course, but when they transport it all over the world first. Take the wood from one area, produce in another and then transport the finished product to NZ? No, thanks - that's so 20th century!

Anita

[Moorf]

I think that's what narks people - locally made items can be so very expensive compared to stuff that has travelled halfway round the world to get here... until Kiwis have the luxury of choice, afforded to them by better salaries, they'll take the cheaper option....

Take the wood from one area, produce in another and then transport the finished product to NZ? No, thanks - that's so 20th century!

... totally agree

[Croft]

I always think that buying locally works 2 ways - sure it keeps someone locally (in the 1st World) in a job, but it may be robbing someone of a job in the 3rd World.

I think IKEA will have a positive influence, it certainly has in the UK market, dragging the home home/kitchenware market in the UK into the 20th Century (it hasn't quite reached the 21st yet - just take a look around stores in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark!). I remember going around UK furniture stores in 1994 trying to furnish our first house - most stuff looked as though it would be at home in my grandparents house. IKEA opened the eyes of the British public to modern design, and I believe led to a renaissance in the British market. Just look at how many furniture, homeware and kitchenware shops there are now as the public are far more ready to experiment and buy modern design.

[Justine+Ben]

I always think that buying locally works 2 ways - sure it keeps someone locally (in the 1st World) in a job, but it may be robbing someone of a job in the 3rd World.

I think IKEA will have a positive influence, it certainly has in the UK market, dragging the home home/kitchenware market in the UK into the 20th Century (it hasn't quite reached the 21st yet - just take a look around stores in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark!). I remember going around UK furniture stores in 1994 trying to furnish our first house - most stuff looked as though it would be at home in my grandparents house. IKEA opened the eyes of the British public to modern design, and I believe led to a renaissance in the British market. Just look at how many furniture, homeware and kitchenware shops there are now as the public are far more ready to experiment and buy modern design.

I agree Croft :clap Before IKEA hit the UK public it was impossible to furnish a flat or house in an affordable way. I remember walking around shops like 'Habitat' as a student and not even being able to afford one lamp or a folding chair! I had to get all my stuff from second hand shops or from places like Argos. If there was no IKEA how would students cope these days? That said, IKEA has a good range of stuff for everyone, and although it does get accused of being badly made, there are also a lot of furniture lines in the store that are excellent quality (but you just need to pay a little more than the really cheap lines like LACK etc.). Since IKEA opened in the UK (and elsewhere) people have embraced modern furniture and it has allowed everyone access to it (rather than just the rich).

Although I can understand and appreciate that they don't want more congestion in Auckland and the associated environmental factors, I dearly hope they do find a more suitable spot to open IKEA. By the sounds of it, the Kiwi public really needs it! :yes

[Peter&Liz]

I think IKEA will have a positive influence, it certainly has in the UK market, dragging the home home/kitchenware market in the UK into the 20th Century (it hasn't quite reached the 21st yet - just take a look around stores in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark!). I remember going around UK furniture stores in 1994 trying to furnish our first house - most stuff looked as though it would be at home in my grandparents house. IKEA opened the eyes of the British public to modern design, and I believe led to a renaissance in the British market. Just look at how many furniture, homeware and kitchenware shops there are now as the public are far more ready to experiment and buy modern design.

Totally agree, Ikea offers decent quality furniture at very very affordable prices, it's been a breath of fresh air in the UK.

I remember furnishing our first flat 1995 on a tight budget the furniture choice then was more expensive and a poorer quality.

Those on low incomes would have access to decent furniture at low prices, and those that don’t like Ikea don’t have to shop there. It’s not compulsory ;)

It’s a pity that the NZ consumer is not going to get the choice.

Still I’m looking forward to my Hot Dog at the end of my IKEA shopping trip tomorrow :D

Peter

[Anita & Marco]

Hi

From these posts I gather that the UK in the 90's was far behind mainland Europe?

There really is furniture in NZ, both cheap and very expensive in all the different qualities. How often do you need to buy furniture anyway? Especially when you bring over quality pieces from Europe - they will last for ages, same like the higher quality pieces in NZ.

It is like there is no life without (Ikea)furniture?

Cheers
Anita

[KerryS]

I must admit I'm not a fan of Ikea - when graduating all my friends and I had identikit houses as we could only afford to buy their cheap tacky furniture.
I now prefer to have good quality individual pieces in my home, rather than mass produced and imported stuff that is the same the world over.

Ikea prices in Australia aren't that cheap either - not really much different to Freedom, which sells similar products.

[dharder]

Still I’m looking forward to my Hot Dog at the end of my IKEA shopping trip tomorrow :D

And where else could you go out for a meal of yummy meatballs for 6 including drinks and dessert for under £15? And have stuff for the kids to do?

I miss Ikea, as much for basic kitchen stuff or cheap bathroom stuff not totally tasteless. I also quite liked to be able to go to one place and get various things.

I have found though that after a while, Argos in the UK started to have similarly affordable wooden furniture that wasn't too bad, either. I'm sure that was a result of the competition, and felt that was a good thing.

When they opened the store in Edmonton, north London, there was mayhem, and they had to close it a couple of hours later because of the overcrowding. People parked on the North Circular just to go to IKEA at midnight... But a couple of years on, there is no additional traffic, no jams, no parking issues, etc. It really was just the excitement in the early days, and fine afterwards.

In any case, I would like to have one here, and think it would be good for a number of reasons, but can also see that Sylvia Park or anywhere around Mt Wellington could be tricky traffic wise.

Daniela

[IanW99]

I must admit I'm not a fan of Ikea - when graduating all my friends and I had identikit houses as we could only afford to buy their cheap tacky furniture.
I now prefer to have good quality individual pieces in my home, rather than mass produced and imported stuff that is the same the world over.

Ikea prices in Australia aren't that cheap either - not really much different to Freedom, which sells similar products.

I was quite suprised when I first went into a Freedom Furniture (http://www.freedomfurniture.co.nz/) store , it definitely has the feel of Ikea.

They don't make you walk around a maze and no food shopping at the end but very similar.

Maybe those who are missing ikea should check them out, might help with the withdrawl :) ?

Ian

[xanctus]

Oh yes, freedom is ikea in my opinion. However, the price is what the big difference between the two.
So in regards of using "kiwi product"....SURE, but the price sometimes a bit ridiculous.

[swissmissdesigner]

I love IKEA!
I remodelled last year the bathroom and kitchen.They have great stuff and still good quality!

[The Hodges]

I only used to go for the meatballs, chips and gravy :D !


I used to get told 'You must try Ikea's meatballs' so I did - and was sick for a few days afterwards.....They must have had an off day

I liked the funiture, though!!

[kzn2nz]

There is absolutely no need for Ikea in my humble opinion. Let's go for 'NZ Made', wouldn't that make more sense?

Heck yes! And we could even call it Ikiwi!:raebanana

[dharder]

Heck yes! And we could even call it Ikiwi!:raebanana

As an aside, my kids had their first day at school yesterday, and the headmistress did a short speech. She kept going on about this being and IKEA school, and how we should all take that motto to heart. I grew increasingly confused, until I realised she was suggesting 'I CARE' as a school motto...

I obviously have a one track mind if I keep hearing Ikea all over the place. That, or it'll take me a while to get used to this English :)

Daniela

[StevieD]

Yeah, I could have taken my smashed light shades that were stuck together in the packaging and the foot stool that has fallen to pieces would have been unceremoniously dumped on their doorstep and a refund obtained!!

As it is I am not going to fly 12000 miles to replace them now :laugh

[Croft]

Hi

From these posts I gather that the UK in the 90's was far behind mainland Europe?

There really is furniture in NZ, both cheap and very expensive in all the different qualities. How often do you need to buy furniture anyway? Especially when you bring over quality pieces from Europe - they will last for ages, same like the higher quality pieces in NZ.

It is like there is no life without (Ikea)furniture?

Cheers
Anita

The furniture and homeware market of the UK in the 1990s, at least for the average person, hadn't changed in decades. I am not joking when most of it would have looked at home in my grandparents house - in fact my great-grandparents house). IKEA brought design to the masses.

Now we're a bit older and wealthier, it's not really the furniture that attracts us to IKEA (though we did buy a very nice range of bedroom draw units recently), but homeware and kitchenware. We can get modern, contemporary design at a fraction of the price of elsewhere.

There is a lot of competition now to IKEA, it's really opened up the market, and IKEA are responding - we can get deliveries over much of the UK now, which we could never get before. ILVA, another scandinavian chain, has recently started up and they offer a level of quality midway between IKEA and Habitat (which we still find too expensive).

[Kim39]

I told you all this was happening a few weeks ago on another thread, but as i wasn't privy to the why's of it, it does come as a surprise that they are blaming traffic situations that follow IKEA.


Kim

[migratory birds]

I haven't taken the time to read all previous posts so this may have come up (I'm trying to wean myself from excessive forum consumption!)

When I heard IKEA was hoping to set up shop in NZ a bit over a year ago, I was dismayed. I've seen the landscape change in the US in the last twenty years with one "big-box"/warehouse-type store after another gobbling up suburban landscape.

It all becomes pretty predictable - where there's a "Target" (dept store) filled with inexpensive goods built on the backs of the Chinese, you'll find a "Bed, Bath and Beyond" store right next door with cheap floor-to-ceiling K/B items made by polluting the air/waterways of, you got it, China; and next to that you will always find a big-box "Party City" with all the plastic, disposable doo-dads for your next party made by the Chinese, many of whom are living on cancer-row due to lack of environmental controls...

The landscape begins to look the same on the edges of every city as you travel on the interstate highways throughout this enormous country.

And independent business people are closing their doors, what were once vibrant, thriving downtown/city centres are now decaying, crumbling buildings ripe for the homeless shuffle.

IKEA made be a "Swedish-owned company" but I would imagine most of the goods on the shelves are made in China.

City planners may have been right about "traffic chaos" but they may not have known that they were also exercising some foresight in keeping independent businesses strong in NZ. And reducing NZs carbon-footprint by keeping enormous freight ships from moving across large expanses of sea to supply a demand for mass-produced cheap/moderate quality household goods. Once one of these big-box stores opens in one community, others in other communities want the cheap goods, too, and then more and more big-boxes come in...and NZ communities start to look like any other community in so many other parts of the world.

[Peter&Liz]

City planners may have been right about "traffic chaos" but they may not have known that they were also exercising some foresight in keeping independent businesses strong in NZ. And reducing NZs carbon-footprint by keeping enormous freight ships from moving across large expanses of sea to supply a demand for mass-produced cheap/moderate quality household goods.


Actually from an ethical point of view you can buy from a lot worse retailers 'local' or 'global' than Ikea.


On Sustainability…



sustainable wood - 50 per cent of products are now FSC (Forestry Stewardship Commission) certified, others are certified by bodies, such as the Rainforest Alliance. The company has also done much to phase out PBDE (a potentially toxic brominated fire retardant) and sources bleach-free packaging.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/fairtrade/story/0,12458,1533595,00.html



On Carbon Footprint…


The company has also made moves to cut emissions and source products from sustainable suppliers. Ikea has set a target for all its outlets across the world to be supplied with 100% renewable energy for electricity and heating by 2012, and at the same time it hopes to reduce overall energy consumption by a quarter. The company has also set up a scheme for the collection and disposal of the low-energy light bulbs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jun/11/ethicalliving.business


Indeed Ikea was named one of the World's Most Ethical Companies by Ethisphere Magazine

http://www.csrwire.com/News/8491.html

How many ‘local’ companies make the same commitment?

I’m not saying they are perfect, far from it but just because they are a big company does not make them bad.

Peter

[migratory birds]

Small steps...but changing light bulbs, sourcing power from renewable sources, 50% wood from sustainable sources (the other 50% not)...

...can't offset the carbon footprint of poor environmental controls in general in Chinese factories (I don't know if Ikea has tightened their environmental standards there - that's why most use Chinese manufacturers - workers don't 'need' to be paid as well and environmental controls have been nearly non-existant)...

...or offset the impact of shipping 100s/1000s container ships all over the world, then popping it on diesel powered semis and freight trains to get it all inland. Or the freight that then needs to be shipped back out of their warehouses onto semis/airplanes to get it onto the delivery trucks that show up right at our doors. Or dozens of workers all coming in in their individual cars every day to serve the hundreds of customers coming in daily (many driving 50-150 miles to make a day of Ikea) in their gas-powered vehicles to buy a set of dinnerware, a rug and a CD rack.

No, big isn't always bad...but when "big" comes, people want more and more and more "big" and we (and city planners) need to look at what's acceptable and what had the potential to be Pandora's box.

[Peter&Liz]

I don't think we are going to agree so this is my last post on the subject of Ikea....

Small steps...but changing light bulbs, sourcing power from renewable sources, 50% wood from sustainable sources (the other 50% not)...


It's 50% Certified at the moment, they claim to source all their wood from responsibly managed forests. And their long-term goal is to get all their wood from certified forests.

http://www.ikea-group.ikea.com/?ID=712


...can't offset the carbon footprint of poor environmental controls in general in Chinese factories (I don't know if Ikea has tightened their environmental standards there - that's why most use Chinese manufacturers - workers don't 'need' to be paid as well and environmental controls have been nearly non-existant)...


IKEA has a code of conduct, The IKEA Way on Purchasing Home Furnishing Products (IWAY), defines what suppliers can expect from IKEA and specifies what IKEA requires from its suppliers. It is based on international conventions and declarations and includes provisions based on the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), the International Labour Organisation Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work (1998), and the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development (1992).

Ikea has a team of 70 auditors to audit suppliers to ensure they meet Ikea’s standards on working conditions, environment, forestry use and prevention of child labour. Their findings are then checked by third party auditors to verify IKEA working methods and audit results.

http://www.ikea-group.ikea.com/?ID=726


...or offset the impact of shipping 100s/1000s container ships all over the world, then popping it on diesel powered semis and freight trains to get it all inland. Or the freight that then needs to be shipped back out of their warehouses onto semis/airplanes to get it onto the delivery trucks that show up right at our doors.

I think you will find that even 'local' companies import a great deal of their stock this way, look at the likes of MFI and DFS in the UK. Go to any local market in the UK and there will be plenty of cheap goods on sale that have come half way around the world.

Moving goods via container ships is one of the most carbon efficient methods of transportation, and because most of Ikea's furniture is flat packed this means they can fit more furniture in a container.


Or dozens of workers all coming in in their individual cars every day to serve the hundreds of customers coming in daily (many driving 50-150 miles to make a day of Ikea) in their gas-powered vehicles to buy a set of dinnerware, a rug and a CD rack.


Whether a worker works for a ‘local’ store or Ikea they still need to transport themselves to their place of work. Likewise customers, if there is no Ikea it doesn’t mean people won’t travel to shops, indeed many will travel around looking at different ‘local’ stores in different towns until they find what they want, Indeed no Ikea may mean more days out looking at furniture rather than less.


No, big isn't always bad...but when "big" comes, people want more and more and more "big" and we (and city planners) need to look at what's acceptable and what had the potential to be Pandora's box.

So give the consumer what they don’t want rather than what they do?

Peter

[sweetpea]

When I heard IKEA was hoping to set up shop in NZ a bit over a year ago, I was dismayed. I've seen the landscape change in the US in the last twenty years with one "big-box"/warehouse-type store after another gobbling up suburban landscape.

Hmm.... big-box stores are already very popular in New Zealand. The Warehouse, Spotlight, Kmart, Big Save, Bunnings, Placemakers, Mitre 10 Mega, etc. I don't think adding an IKEA will make much difference; that horse has already left the stable.

[steviec]

Been to ikea once and bought a bag of 50 tealights and a small 6 drawer chest to put keys etc in. Did'nt like anything else in there.
We prefer solid hard wearing furniture that will last a long time.
Our friends who live in London love ikea and their house is like a page out the catalogue.
We have bought some lovely furniture in NZ so would'nt shop at Ikea but if NZ want one they should have one.
Tracy.

[dusk]

ikea DO do solid, hard-wearing furniture, if you look beyond the uber-cheap stuff - we have some very nice, chunky wooden bookshelves for example, still takes all sorts - one persons taste is thankfully not the same as everyone elses :D

[Moorf]

For those missing Ikea :D

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-PweHZKjm60

(thanks to Kate for telling me about this song!!)

[swissmissdesigner]

Why some people moaning about Ikea?
If you don't like it just simple don't go there....