[Timbo]

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School fee burdens parents

31.01.05
by Stuart Dye and Kiri Gillespie


State high schools are asking parents for hundreds of dollars in fees to pay for their child's "free" education.

A Herald survey undertaken as schools open for the new year this week, reveals parents face paying up to $740 at state schools and as much as $1496 a child at integrated schools.

All but a handful of secondary schools ask for a voluntary contribution as they try to balance the ever-tightening budget.

For parents, the annual donation adds to the back-to-school budget, which is already having to cope with uniforms (about $400), stationery, travel, school trips and extra-curricular activities such as sport.

The Herald survey of 134 state and integrated secondary schools showed the average donation asked for one child was $152. But it also revealed that the level of the donations requested varies wildly.

Responding to the survey, Associate Education Minister David Benson-Pope said he would launch an investigation, asking boards of trustees to justify the "outright magnitude" of the amount of some requests.

He is likely to target schools such as Auckland Grammar, which tops the state school table, asking parents for $740 for one child. That figure rises to $1480 for a family with more than one child at the school.

The survey showed that on average integrated schools (former private schools) ask for the most from parents, but they receive no Government funding for their privately owned land and buildings.

Rosmini College on the North Shore asks for the largest donation - $1496.

At the other end of the scale, a few schools will ask for nothing or a nominal fee as they adopt a "user-pays" philosophy and try to balance the books by charging for extra materials needed for specific subjects.

Many of those schools, in the country's poorest communities, say this is the fairest approach and does not penalise struggling parents.

Those schools are also eligible for extra Government funds because of their low income areas.

Mr Benson-Pope said he was concerned about the disparity between the amounts asked for and the level of some school fees.

"I will be looking at this issue in detail in the coming year," he said. "I want to know if the fees some schools levy are justified."

The minister said he also wanted to ensure that fees were not limiting the choice of schools a student might be able and entitled to attend.

Several schools said they were increasing the amount they asked for, but most were determined to stay at the same level as previous years. Two had even dropped their fees.

The survey also showed, unsurprisingly, that the highest decile schools ask for the highest donations and poorer schools tend to request less. But almost all schools had common ground in their argument that the operational funding is a fraction of what is needed to run a school in today's economic climate.

The Government argues schools are now receiving $246 million more than they were in 1999, with per-pupil operational funding rising by 13.3 per cent in the past six years.

Exact figures are difficult to pin down because the decentralised education management system means boards of trustees use the fees for different purposes and record them under different expenses.

But it is estimated that parents will end up paying about 15 per cent of a school's total revenue.

Bill English, National education spokesman, said the Herald survey showed the huge number of mid-level schools were suffering the most.

"The parents can't afford a huge contribution and the decile funding does not compensate for that."

Chris Haines, president of the New Zealand School Trustees Association, said the Government had to move to put the "free" back into "free state education".

"School boards of trustees face an increasing struggle to make ends meet and more and more are being forced to turn to locally raised funds to maintain basic programmes."

But Mr Benson-Pope said free education was enshrined in law.

"For schools to say they are having to dip into operational funds, or are being forced to raise money from parents, to pay for teachers to deliver the curriculum is just not true."

The Government was paying out more money for improved internet technology, extra teachers and professional development.

Any move to rein in the amount of money asked for is likely to meet strong opposition from schools, boards of trustees and parents.

Mike Mee's daughter Jessica starts her first year at Epsom Girls Grammar this week. With a contribution of $575 it is near the top of the Herald list.

But Mr Mee said: "Her school has a very good reputation and as such I'm happy to pay a bit extra for the additional facilities and curricula options offered."

About 758,300 students are enrolled in primary and secondary schools, up 4900 from last year.

[foolsgold99]

All but a handful of secondary schools ask for a voluntary contribution

And if you decide not to pay the voluntary contribution then what ?

If it's voluntary and there is no sanction for not paying, then why do people pay it ?

[Gran]

Unfortunately you have to buy books etc. for your children in NZ schools, as they do in Aussie. Probably because we dont have the population base like in the UK. School fees are the same, mind you we recently on this site have had several people comenting about all the "extras" that their children have been getting as opposed to UK schools, I guess those people arrived too late to pay the school fees.

As to the high fees at Epsom Girls and Auckland Grammar, I really wont be crying over that because if the parents can afford to live in the catchment area for those schools, they can certainly afford the fees.

Also the Catholic schools, until a few years ago the parents had to pay full fees, until they were taken under the public umbrella and the state now pays for everything except the upkeep of the buildings which the church owns.
Gran

[Carol]

All but a handful of secondary schools ask for a voluntary contribution

And if you decide not to pay the voluntary contribution then what ?

If it's voluntary and there is no sanction for not paying, then why do people pay it ?


From the other side of the fence...... (I'm a primary school teacher) - without our "voluntary" contributions - which incidently are $150 per year we most certainly could not run on the money we get from the government.
As we are decile 10 (high income bracket) we get the very least for each child in the school that it is possible to get.
Decile 1 schools get by far the most.

We have to fundraise throughout the year just to cover the basics.... :?

Without the contributions we would be very poorly off.


So...the answer to the question is.... nothing would happen.......except we would have to ask for at least double the fund raising.
Which falls back at the parents who want the best for their kids.....

C

[ruthyroo]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=3605286
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=3605037

Two articles above on this very issue. The government and the schools are very much at odds on this... I know who I believe - and it is not the politicians! It seems that a school's ability to provide anything above and beyond a bare classroom depends either on the wealth / willingness of its parents to pay, and / or it's success in fundraising - for sports facilities, IT equipment, trips, anything more than a packet of chalk and a blackboard. DH is a teacher - he does not enjoy handing out invoices to 10 year old kids who come from desperately poor backgrounds, or trying to teach a child who can't afford to buy a jotter or textbook. It further alienates those kids from a low income background and it's a side of the NZ education system that really pisses me off.

[Carol]

this is so true.

Wew are rated as Decile 10 - which means all families who attend our school are supposedly from "well off" parents.

THis is just not true.
I too feel terrible having to ask for money what seems to be just about every other week off some families.
Of course others are really well off...........in fact their parents probably wouldn't bother getting out of bed for MY salary!


Makes me think some days - especially when they are the ones moaning or not putting their hand up to help out.

[leslie]

well, good, we can look forward to the dropping of wholly unecessary, UN rejected $400 uniforms in days to come.

as for contributions - did most of my schooling in canada where we students did masses of fund-raising etc for activities. and we didn't winge. still think its the best way - i can run circles around most professional fund-raisers, organise and manage just about anything AND we learned that we could influence outcomes. funny what teenagers can do when there is a trip/ something interesting at the end of it...

when people complain about fund-raising/ contribs, what glorious times do they remember?????? virtually nowhere, even canada in it's most generous days, has edu been 100% free at the indiv level. last time i checked we pay through taxes and, well, we pay lots of taxes. maybe the big issue is transparency, motive and outcomes?

[Carol]

I'd really appreciate you explaining what you mean by your last statement.

[Diny]

Me too.

Confused of Staffordshire.http://tcwozere.co.uk/smileys/weird_thread.gif

[markkellaway]

I took it that the transparency is to do with knowing where the money is going (taxes/contributions) and that the Motives/outcomes comment was to do with giving people the motivation to raise money and thus influence the outcome. I'm probably completely wide of the mosrk though. :yes

With regards to uniforms I actually think they are a great leveller. OK $400 is steep but reasonably priced uniforms are in my opinion a great idea.

Mark. :P

[leslie]

transparency - education has substantial impact on childs outcome (adulthood). parents need to know what is going on - on all levels - and people working in the system must be accountable and held accountable.

free - education has always benefitted from financial support outside the classroom. it has also been recipient-in-kind of an army of volunteers. on digging you will find the biggest impediment to vol contrib today is union-based. the same people who 'want the best for your child' and 'will fight tooth and nail for improvement' think it should be done solely with fully-paid staff. drawing from a small, protected pool of people with v limited experrience didn't do royal families any good and it won't help our kids.

motive - education as the 'lighting of a fire' or 'the filling of a pail'? will it facilate progression or stupify it? is knowledge boundless or limited?

outcomes - only the most determined, best supported children emerge from education having learned and benefitted from the mistakes experienced therein. most are handicapped by them. education is one of the last great pariahs for unaccountbility and yet teaching/ education is one of the greatest responsibilities imaginable.

i let the other edu thread go because i have, finally, at 38 begun to accept that when you have grown up in a progressive, democatic society you just see things differently. its not because you are particularly clever, its just that your experience is different. thanks to my disfunctional parents/family i have attended everything from one of the worlds best private schools to a nasty little village school at which i was bullied by older boys for being 'rich' (imagine being a skinny 10 year old and being harrassed by 14 yr olds who are already doing drugs). more than most have been there, bought the t-shirt. between experience, education and acquired knowledge i believe that it takes a community to raise a child and that all children are equal under the sun. i dont think one can say 'my kids are okay, have good school/ future' etc, if they walk past others on a daily basis who have nothing. any society will have its equalisers, you can use positive methods like good, decent, democratic education method or let individuals make their own way. choosing the latter will inevitably end with little girls being physically assaulted by much bigger males.

sigh.

[Diny]

This post has been deleted.

Diny

[markkellaway]

Don't hold back now Diny! :laugh :laugh

Mark. :P

[Diny]

Have deleted this posting.

Diny

[Moorf]

And we wonder why some people don't post.... :no

[Diny]

The 'delete this post' button seems to be evading me so I've edited my postings instead.

Why??????

Because I just can't be botheredhttp://tcwozere.co.uk/smileys/blyawn.gif

Diny

[Carol]

I feel the need to answer a few points.
(putting it politely)

transparency - education has substantial impact on childs outcome % hood). parents need to know what is going on - on all levels - and people working in the system must be accountable and held accountable.

They do know what is going on. They are reported to every step of the way.
I am a professional person. Of course I am accountable.
I am attestated twice yearly and if I'm not coming up with the goods I'm going to get my arse kicked.
Sorry to be so blunt but that is the truth.

Believe it or not - there ARE some parents out there who couldnt give a flying as to what their kids are up to in school. I reckon it is THOSE people who should be accountable as much as those in "the system".

free - education has always benefitted from financial support outside the classroom. it has also been recipient-in-kind of an army of volunteers. on digging you will find the biggest impediment to vol contrib today is union-based. the same people who 'want the best for your child' and 'will fight tooth and nail for improvement' think it should be done solely with fully-paid staff. drawing from a small, protected pool of people with v limited experrience didn't do royal families any good and it won't help our kids.

Do you mean people need to be assisting us doing incredibly valuable work as volunteers? Get real.
Most of the parent helpers I have last an hour or two and run. And thank god I have them!

motive - education as the 'lighting of a fire' or 'the filling of a pail'? will it facilate progression or stupify it? is knowledge boundless or limited?

I dont know about your experiences but if you think for one moment I am filling a pail you are living in the 70's.
Times have changed............

outcomes - only the most determined, best supported children emerge from education having learned and benefitted from the mistakes experienced therein. most are handicapped by them. education is one of the last great pariahs for unaccountbility

This is complete and utter rubbish and not even worth a comment

i let the other edu thread go because i have, finally, at 38 begun to accept that when you have grown up in a progressive, democatic society you just see things differently. its not because you are particularly clever, its just that your experience is different. thanks to my disfunctional parents/family i have attended everything from one of the worlds best private schools to a little village school at which i was bullied by older boys for being 'rich' (imagine being a skinny 10 year old and being harrassed by 14 yr olds who are already doing ). more than most have been there, bought the t-shirt. between experience, education and acquired knowledge i believe that it takes a community to raise a child and that all children are equal under the sun. i dont think one can say 'my kids are okay, have good school/ future' etc, if they walk past others on a daily basis who have nothing. any society will have its equalisers, you can use positive methods like good, decent, democratic education method or let individuals make their own way. choosing the latter will inevitably end with little s being physically assaulted by much bigger males.


Again........ you have obviously had some very strange experiences in your lifetime to come out with a statement like this.
sigh.


And on that note.....at the end of the first week back at school - new year - new kids - and 65-70 hours of work this week (oh yes I REALLY mean that) I shall enjoy a glass of wine.

If anyone out there needs one....let me know. I'll be there like a shot.

Carol

[Moorf]

*chink* I sure need one.. I'm joining you.... let's race... :laugh

[Carol]

meet you halfway Moorf....Kaikoura?
:mrgreen:

[Moorf]

Sure, we'll be seeing more than whales after the first case...!! :cheers

[Diny]

Carol ..... well said you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The posting you have detailed above made me shake my head in wonder too.

Quote: Again........ you have obviously had some very strange experiences in your lifetime to come out with a statement like this.

I agree - I wonder what causes such negativity. You state that part of the posting is 'complete and utter rubbish and not worth comment' ...... I also totally agree.

It's interesting to read the posts on this thread and see how the same opinions can be received so differently.

Keep posting girlie.

:nice1

Diny

[markkellaway]

Diny,

I hope you didn't remove your posts because of my comment, I was trying to be light hearted. ;)

Mark.

[Moorf]

I wasn't :laugh - forums are not the place to make judgements on people's personalities - do it by PM by all means but I stick to my opinion that it's rude and unecessary to post something like that in public, no matter how passionate you feel about the topic !

But then it's not my forum, I just say what I feel.. and I didn't expect or demand the deletion of the post. :no

[Diny]

Mark - not at all. :P

I wasn't trying to be rude - everything was written tongue in cheek (which I went to some lengths to explain) .... obviously I didn't explain myself well enough - for some.

Moorf - for some reason the saying 'do as I say not as I do' springs to mind when I read your last comment :? :? - like you say though .... let's keep it to PMs eh :nice1

Diny

[veronica]

Having worked in the education system I have to say the teachers have a h**l of a job, they have very little authority except that of personality and little support from the majority of parents. While some of them are good theres a quite lot out there that are indifferent and a few that shouldn't be teaching.
I have always felt that if people have to pay for education, even if its only a contribution, they will value it more, and its very noticable that when people have to buy text books for the kids they are much less likely to chuck them about the classroom. After all they are then held accountable for them.

[Diny]

Very valid comment Veronica.

:nice1 Diny

[lindajax]

I just wanted to add a different perspecitve be it valid or not!

I, as a parent have asked my childs school how willing they are to let us be involved and we intend ( as much as our jobs allow) to be involved. We feel teachers do have a bum rap and would try to help the process and aid the school be it financially or in hands on as much as we can.
We also realise that some parents aren't as advantaged as we are and --- thats okay.
Also some areas and some schools do ahve less resources and less staff motivation because of many factors = this can impede thier functioning and ability to be as driven as in agood school with great parents and resources... it doesn't impede thier DESIRE to do the best.

Politics and funding etc etc etc ALWAYS come into debates about schooling the world over. We are VERY fortunate to have adequate funds to help our childs school and we will, and it doesn't bother us in the slightest and if another parent can't contibute well, you know, they can't it i VOLUNTARY in state schools.
Yes as Veroica points out there are good and bad ... motivated and unmotivated staff but thats the same in ANY job.


Teachers do a VERY valuable and precious job I for one would not envy thier position ( I teach Adults) I say lets help them do thier job if we can . People with children, like myself , become VERY aware of the education system and its failings etc when it is thier childs future that is dependent upon it...... you will do ANYTHING to secure a good education for your children. it is VERY easy to focus on its failings and not the very Vaulable job and essenmtial , crappy paid , not just in the calssroom but lots of work at home job that teachers do.

I will value mine and try my best to support and empower them to educate my child ( I do not have the skill to do it , they do) and hope I've made the right choice of school etc...

My 2 penneth over - have a child starting school in october and feel very pasionately that she should be HAPPY, SUPPORTED and ENCOURAGED to be active in school.

NO offense to anyone, MY views, this is not aimed at anyone it is a sort of from the heart thing because my child starts school soon and it is a major thing for us and maybe cos we are new at the schooling game we can offer different slant

Love
lindaxxxx
Anywhooz,

[Diny]

Quoe Linda:

People with children, like myself , become VERY aware of the education system and its failings etc when it is thier childs future that is dependent upon it...... you will do ANYTHING to secure a good education for your children.

Spot on Linda !!!!!!!!! This is one of the points I was 'trying' to establish in the other education thread.

I feel that parent 'intervention' (whether it be donating hours or money) is very important. PB and I have always played a big part in the education of Fergie & Henry. We also realise that we are EXTREMELY LUCKY (we never take it for granted) that we are in a position to help financially. If this situation should change tomorrow we would still contribute as many 'hours' as we could.

The school we have 'earmarked' for the boys is actually fee paying - but I'm abit confused as the fees aren't particularly high. We're in contact with the school and one of the questions we have asked is regarding the fees. From the amount quoted I would imagne they are for books and materials etc. When we get a breakdown of the fees I'll post the details as they may be of some interest to others.

Diny

[jo b]

Diny

if you could post the breakdown that would be useful as we are contemplating fe paying schools too.

Cheers

Jo

[leslie]

apparently i did not make it clear my experience comes from a variety of angles and not just one. i used to side with teachers !!! and then began 'helping' in schools. i soon realised education is an insular and protected environment and it hasn't done it any favours. in some ways teaching is a difficult job, in others, well, walk in my shoes for a week (okay, when i was working). or moorf's, linda jax' etc. as for the politics of education, dont go there unless you have more time than me. i've got about 10 minutes.

i have heard enough from some posters to know exactly where their interests lie. as rhetoric is granted substance through repitition i am happy to oblige by putting out a different angle. it is regrettable that so many clearly feel this an inappropriate concept. maybe they should consider moving to the usa? last time i checked nz hadn't voted against the individual.

i believe that school should be an amazing time for societies youngest, most vulnerable members. it should be elegantly funded. as a mature adult i appreciate having some direct say in what happens - which i can do through voluntary contribs at the local level. i do not believe that children should miss out on learning because their uniform/ hair is incorrect or their parents cannot afford the over-priced inappropriate wardrobe requested by most schools... the time and energy used to police them... how many languages can one say stupid in? i salute the un for ruling against them and cannot wait to see the last of them. as teacher on forum clearly stated teaching professionals have more valuable things to think about. lastly, disadvantaged children should have an equal start and not just in school - liesure facilities etc should be free to ALL children. the fact that parents do not care/ are brainless/ are financially strapped should not dictate a childs prospects.

anyone who chooses to teach today is either stupid or an interesting, courageous person (unless we're talking canada - in which case they are simply loaded). it is not so much the job that is problematic as it is the conditions around the job - and those can and should be changed. while children are not responsible for the failures of the system in which they grow up their prospects are impeded by them. i may be outspoken, critical, analytical and 'overly generalising' (word???) but am pleased to put my money, skills and time where my mouth is. when the chips are down teachers know where to find me.

in a recent survey 4 out of 5 british parents stated they believe they are not responsible for the diet of their 0-2 year olds. 'nough said.

[Diny]

Just as a matter of interest - if all of us asked our own particular group of friends and associates who have children, whether we believe we are/were responsible for their diet between the ages of 0-2, I wonder how many of them would say no.

For instance, off the top of my head I can think of 5 sets of parents ('cos the survey was 'out of five') ..... I'll go for PB and me - my sister - my 2 brothers and a close friend.

I'm more than confident that all of them (and us) will state categorically that we were all totally responsible for our childrens diets when they were between 0-2. Out of this particular group of 5 sets of parents our children range from 3 to 16 ..... and we are all STILL responsible for monitoring our childrens diets.

I'm not doubting the survey at all ..... I'm just interested to know who was asked. Statistically speaking ..... my brothers, sister and I 'should' be c**p parents who let our toddlers stuff and gorge on whatever they like while my friend Nici is the only one on the ball.

Statistics are all well and good ..... as long as a cross section of the population are surveyed.

Are you an ex-teacher Leslie - don't know why but I'd got it in my head that you were working in the medical/hospital profession. I'm abit confused as to why folks should ask Moorf and Lindajax about teaching. I understand Moorf is just about to start a job in a surf shop. I know Linda has just landed a new job (good on ya Linda :nice1 ) and is due to start tomorrow, but she was a specialist nurse in a childrens burns unit before.

I do alot of voluntary work in our local school. Not just listening to the children read and help them glue and paint ...... I actually take classes for art, craft and home economics (junior level). The red tape and politics that I have to 'work with' is amazing and I know where you're coming from .... it would drive me insane if I had to abide by the rules every day of my working life. I have nothing but the greatest respect for teachers (well the good ones anyway) - but deciding who are the good and bad ones is a whole new thread :uhoh

Diny

[Timbo]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=466&ObjectID=10009747&ref=watch

[Moorf]

I'm replying to this as my name was used to illustrate a point (not sure why though).

I think you'll find, if you read it back again, that she was referring to Linda and I as NOT working as teachers -

in some ways teaching is a difficult job, in others, well, walk in my shoes for a week (okay, when i was working). or moorf's, linda jax' etc.

Yes I am about to start work in a surf shop (your point is?) but I believe she was referring to my previous career.

As for surveys I am sure you can find all sorts these days... but here's one conclusion .. "only one in five parents blamed themselves in any way for their children's eating habits" ... Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3582259.stm

[Diny]

Ahhh I see. I was confused 'cos I thought Leslie was saying that you and Linda were teachers and I found it rather confusing.

I know you're about to start work in a surf shop ...... I'm not making any point - I was just stating a fact. I imagine you'll love it (I think I even congratulated you in the other thread). :uhoh

One more thing that really IS confusing me though, by reading other postings and PMs which I have received, I know that there's a good number of people on this forum who believe Leslie is a 'he' not a 'she' .... PB and me included.

Surveys .... oh yeah there's plenty of them flying around.

Quote Leslie:
in a recent survey 4 out of 5 british parents stated they believe they are not responsible for the diet of their 0-2 year olds. 'nough said.

We have just sat a read this over and over again and are still coming out with our same definition. Compare it to a different way of wording it:

Quote Moorf:
only one in five parents blamed themselves in any way for their children's eating habits

We've come to the conclusion that it's steeped in ambiguity.

Confused? You bet !!!!!!http://tcwozere.co.uk/smileys/weird_thread.gif

Diny

[jo b]

Well there's

lies, damn lies and there's stastisticshttp://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/reden/458.gif

Jo

[Moorf]

One can only assume that the figures Leslie quoted relate to the amazing level of poverty in the UK (I was stunned by the figures) :eek

http://www.oxfamgb.org/ukpp/poverty/thefacts.htm

[jo b]

MMmmm


different topic really IMHO poverty can be avoided in 50% of cases. And I know I will get shot for this but for someone who lives and works between 2 major cities (liverpool and Manchester), I believe half the problem stems from the want it all for nothing society.

if the Uk need so many immigrants to fill jobs then there asre jobs to be had for people.

But like I said there are lies, damn lies and statistics. The benchmark for poverty has changed int he last 10 years. try comapring people in the UK with that of Africa with no fresh water, now thats poverty.

Jo

[Moorf]

Sorry, you confuse me with the BBC reporter.. I just posted a fact I found :?

And you will find that Leslie is indeed a woman - a very interesting one too. It's not for me to tell you about what she does for a living, if you ask I am sure she will tell you!

:nice1

[Moorf]

I wonder if the poverty benchmark shows those on benefits ABOVE the poverty line!

My cousin earns £20k a year doing PC repairs, family of 4, and they are "officially" under the poverty line :eek but have a very normal life and aren't starving, have holidays each year and own 2 cars!

[jo b]

Moorf


you sound like you need a fag chuckhttp://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/rauchen/150.gif

I wasn't suggesting you were a BBC reporter I just get hacked off the way organisations skew the figures to suit the way they want.

Jo

[Moorf]

Now now jo... I was referring to Diny's post, not yours, let's not all jump on this bandwagon..

i.e Quote Moorf should have read Quote BBC ... that's all

Any I sound like a need a fag why exactly? Curious....

It's often the case that despite stats people will believe what they want to anyway, not trying to preach or convert, I actually find this interesting and am learning today about poverty in the UK, facts that I never knew before.. from a variety of sources.

[Moorf]

I'll take that as "discussion over" then.. shame, was interesting.

[Moorf]

No no I am far from stressed (and I haven't even had a fag today :nice1 ).. I was enjoying the to-ing and fro-ing that's all ... sure I can get a bit.. what's the word... err "fiesty" (perhaps too strong?) you know the sort... I'm the one in the pub corner that's all animated and loud.. just doesn't come across on here quite the same.

But please, can we lay off the "Moorf needs a fag" tagline... it doesn't help.. thanks ;)

[Carol]

anyone who chooses to teach today is either stupid or an interesting, courageous person




well I dont think I'm stupid.......... but I have to admit to a perverse love of working ridiculous hours for little financial gain - but those letters at the end of the year from ten year olds who tell me I have given them a life changing year is enough.

so maybe I am.....stupid that is.

[veronica]

Stupid is such a harsh word.....I wish it wasn't in the dictionary. What each of us chooses to work at and for what renumeration is precisely that....our choice and no one should feel they have to justify it.
The same as people should be able to provide what they believe is the best education for their particular kids whether they pay or not.
Freedom of speech and belief is something to be treasured.

[jo b]

No no I am far from stressed (and I haven't even had a fag today :nice1 ).. I was enjoying the to-ing and fro-ing that's all ... sure I can get a bit.. what's the word... err "fiesty" (perhaps too strong?) you know the sort... I'm the one in the pub corner that's all animated and loud.. just doesn't come across on here quite the same.

But please, can we lay off the "Moorf needs a fag" tagline... it doesn't help.. thanks ;)

Sorry Moorf didn't mean to offend.

It doesn't help when people mention fags I know I too am an ex smoker.

Jo

[wilson182]

My daughters Intermediate school fees are $200.50. I have lost the breakdown, but this included $25.00 for books, $35.00 school donation and some of that included trips and excursions. They are going on a camping trip at the end of this month. We were happy to contribute some sleeping bags and other items for this. The PTA also run a very successful second hand uniform shop (as an intermediate school the uniform will never be more than two years old) I was able to buy a $140.00 school kilt for $35.00. :nice1

My youngest daughters primary school contribution is $35.00. The uniform is sold by the PTA, so am I correct in thinking that most of that money goes to the school?