[yuutamichael]

Okay, here's the good stuff about New Zealand from my point of view. Please stop me when I get too negative for you, okay?

Stop! I'm tearing up! Ignore my last post because you've responded with exactly what I would say when asked why I love it here.

Seeing that this is the "Americans Adjusting to New Zealand" thread; has anyone else noticed that those of us who emigrate here see much more of this country than most people who were born here? I've been from Cape Reinga to Milford Sound and a thousand places in between and many Aucklanders I've met don't bother. Is that another way we adjust to living in a new land? Trying to experience every ounce (gram) of it?

[Jolie]

:)
has anyone else noticed that those of us who emigrate here see much more of this country than most people who were born here?
My hairstylist (a young 20-something woman) has never been to the South Island.

Yes, if we're going to move ourselves and everything we own halfway around the world, and leave just about everything of our former life behind, there's not much point to it unless we make the most of the wonderful new country, is there?

:)

[Jolie]

Oops, I left out the WOW (World of Wearable Art) and Vintage Car museums in Nelson (which is an incredible artist's enclave, with lots of wonderful arts and handicrafts by NZ artists in the shops there). I didn't know what to expect of a museum of costumes. But each "costume" is in fact a huge, elaborate work of art, and this museum is absolutely a must-see for anyone who's creative -- or wishes that they were.

[ellenmelon]

Stop! I'm tearing up! Ignore my last post because you've responded with exactly what I would say when asked why I love it here.

Seeing that this is the "Americans Adjusting to New Zealand" thread; has anyone else noticed that those of us who emigrate here see much more of this country than most people who were born here? I've been from Cape Reinga to Milford Sound and a thousand places in between and many Aucklanders I've met don't bother. Is that another way we adjust to living in a new land? Trying to experience every ounce (gram) of it?

i'm a kiwi, and while i've seen pretty much the whole of the south island when i was growing up (we'd drive down most summers to see family) but despite growing up in the north island, never saw much of it. a lot of kiwi's go to the same place for their summer break year in, year out (kaiteriteri is a popular favourite for a lot of chch people i found, or kaikoura) and don't have the drive ('scuse the pun) to venture outside their norm. they probably take it for granted a little too.

[dilanium]

I'd just like to add that my Westpac electronic account is truly fee free. I have two other accounts with Westpac fee-free as well, but then I'm a special circumstance (being that I'm a student).

[urban78]

Seeing that this is the "Americans Adjusting to New Zealand" thread; has anyone else noticed that those of us who emigrate here see much more of this country than most people who were born here?

I can relate to that, I emigrated here and my partner is an Aucklander. We went to Wellington and Christchurch since I arrived nearly 3 years ago...and my OH had never been there before :laugh Then again all their family is either in Auckland or Australia so I think that's the main reason why they haven't travelled much around NZ.

I think OH has travelled more overseas than in NZ, which is quite similar to me, being originally from France but never really travelled the coutry as I spent most of my vacations overseas when I was younger.

[sweetpea]

If you're having trouble, I think we'd like to know a lot more particulars so that other people can make better decisions because I can say right now that a lot of negative statements being made don't apply to everyone.

I’m not sure I agree with your premise, which seems to be, what’s wrong with you that you find fault with NZ? Personally, I think it’s important to have a wide variety of perspectives available, both positive and negative, so that people can read and make up their own minds. The general opinion on this forum diverges from that of the North American expats that I meet in real life, and I feel like it may be useful to post my views (while trying to avoid becoming this person (http://xkcd.com/386/)).

To give you some background. I grew up in the Midwest and lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for several years before coming to NZ. I actually loved the Bay Area, but was frustrated that I would never be able to afford a house there and was bored with my job. I worked as an administrator for a state university, where I had three weeks of vacation, a pension plan (not a 401k plan, an actual pension - woo hoo!) and great health insurance. I was interested in pursuing another career and a university in NZ offered a bit of a shortcut to do it, plus the opportunity to get away from Mr. Bush and his policies, so I came to NZ to go to the equivalent of professional school.

I actually really like the school and am having a good time, I just find that NZ chafes in some ways. I really thought that the progressive policies of the NZ government reflected its people’s views, but I haven't found that to be the case on the ground. I assumed, too, that Palmerston North would be more of a college town, since it has a population of 75,000 and about 9,000 enrolled students. Alas, no.

I find it strange that there is denial in this thread that NZ generally has lower wages than most other developed countries. After all, NZ newspapers are rather fond of trotting out stories on the rather high number of NZ’ers moving over to Australia for better pay (for a sample of the genre, see http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/11/story.cfm?c_id=11&objectid=10513493). There are also OECD statistics, etc. I know that jobs here equivalent to the one I had in the US pay about 20% less and don’t offer the kind of benefits I received.

Bank fees are common here – it is one of the few negatives that I remember hearing about NZ before I emigrated. I intially learned about them on this forum, in fact. It is only recently that a few banks have had a fee-free account option (provided you get no paper statements, use no checks and meet other criteria). Why claim that there are not two different norms in the US and NZ? Such a minor thing.

Anyway, enough about that. I hope everyone enjoyed the absolutely gorgeous day we had today!

[Jolie]

If you're having trouble, I think we'd like to know a lot more particulars so that other people can make better decisions because I can say right now that a lot of negative statements being made don't apply to everyone.
I'm quite mystified why more than a few people on here insist that I must somehow be unhappy with NZ if I'm posting negative information. Is it really that rare for other people to be able to see both sides of a situation and feel that it is important to hear both, the way I do?

I'm also mystified as to why my personal situation has any relevance to whether or not the things I've mentioned should be mentioned.

It's not really up to any of us who are already here to decide which of these things applies to anyone, is it?

It's not our place to tell them that should be okay with not having "Reduced Fat" items available, or that they shouldn't want to import items because it hurts the NZ Economy.

Isn't it just our obligation as responsible forum members to give prospective migrants the information and let them decide which parts are important and which aren't, based on their own value systems -- not ours???


A lot of us do take it for granted that we need to save our own money for retirement, regardless of whether the country we're in provides a pension. But yes, I not infrequently see on this website people making comments like the original poster of this thread:
I am used to paying out the nose for health care, funding my own 401(k), getting two weeks paid leave accrued after the first year, wages not keeping up with inflation, hidden fees in everything, etc. Compared to this, what I will find in New Zealand sounds pretty great.
which certainly seem to indicate that they think they will no longer have to worry about saving for retirement because NZ provides a pension.

No matter what the subject, it's pretty dangerous to make the assumption that something doesn't need to be mentioned simply because it's obvious to you. I know from my own personal experience that things I consider absolute "no-brainers" are not obvious to everyone.

[canajanz]

No I don't think you are missing anything!

NZ is not perfect !!
Some of the traffic rules are just plain crazy:roll
The politics can be just as dodgy as anywhere else;)
they are still learning about central heating:o
and I cant buy Miracle Whip or Ivory Soap :p

I've been here over 10 years now and it still seems like a good deal.
We came over with a large group of Brits and I must say the majority did nothing but whine about what wasn't here. They have a word for *that* here too

Whoever said "when in rome ..." was right ... just enjoy it

[swissmissdesigner]

I just love this thread!

Everyone has some valuable point!

[JoHnH]

Here's some potted history of retirement provisions in NZ.
Leaving aside what went before, we start with the Labour Government of the 1970s introducing a contributory scheme intended by now to have built up a massive national investment fund to finance pensions. In 1975, Rob Muldoon, a famously combative and domineering politician, proposed instead a universal scheme to be funded from current taxation. It was a blatant electioneering bribe, quite unsustainable in the long term and insanely over-generous - paid at age 60, not means tested, and set at 80% of the average weekly wage. He got into power, and went ahead despite screams of pain from Treasury. (I mean, I really know this - I was working in Social Welfare, one of my jobs being to take applications from very fit and healthy 60-year-olds who went skipping off out of my office to their well-paid jobs and trips to Aussie. Rather galling to a youngster struggling to raise a family on the average wage.) This supremely socialistic scheme was, ironically, introduced by a National (i.e. conservative) government, and naturally called National Super. One of Labour's first acts when it got back into power was to relabel it NZ Super.)
Since 1984, when Muldoon's iron grip was finally removed, governments of both parties have been trying desperately to reign in the cost of Super, which might have been an appropriate scheme for an oil-rich sheikdom, but was ludicrous for a struggling agrarian economy. The age went up to 65, the rate came down to about 60%, there was a "surcharge" tax for a while to claw back some Super from the wealthy and the still-employed, etc etc. (In fact the rate came down so much that they had to introduce a "living alone" supplement for genuinely needy solo pensioners.)
The Superannuation Fund introduced by Michael Cullen seems to be a half-pie attempt to get back to the 1970s, and to encourage savings (along with Kiwisaver.) But at present NZ is still stuck with the effects of Muldoon's gift to posterity.
The point of all this? Super may no longer be a political football and source of broken election promises, but we're probably a fair way still from a multi-party accord on a realistic and sustainable long-term policy. Prospective genuine migrants (i.e. those not just visiting but intending permanent relocation) in their twenties and thirties would be most unwise to assume that whatever prevails at present will still be here when they reach their sixties. For one thing, changes in small countries with brief histories probably happen more suddenly and sweepingly than in larger and older nations.
Me, I say go right back to the original Old Age Pension of the 1890s. Then, you had to produce attestion from a clergyman or other worthy that you were "of good character." That'd bring the cost down!

[Jolie]

We came over with a large group of Brits and I must say the majority did nothing but whine about what wasn't here. They have a word for *that* here too

Whoever said "when in rome ..." was right ... just enjoy it
The title of this thread is "Americans adjusting to New Zealand". Prospective migrants need to know what the differences are between the two countries, so that they can make an informed decision.

[Moorf]

It's not really up to any of us who are already here to decide which of these things applies to anyone, is it?

It's not our place to tell them that should be okay with not having "Reduced Fat" items available, or that they shouldn't want to import items because it hurts the NZ Economy.

Isn't it just our obligation as responsible forum members to give prospective migrants the information and let them decide which parts are important and which aren't, based on their own value systems -- not ours???

You're absolutely right. And what we tend towards on ENZ is introducing ourselves and who we are and taking it from that point, because we're all here for such a HUGE variety of reasons that you simply can't generalise and tell people they will or won't be better off, warmer, more social etc without knowing something of their circumstance. I think you'll find most of the people on here describe NZ through their own experiences and based on their personal financial needs and advise people as such. There are plenty of threads on ENZ where members advise that x and y salary in such and such a city would be "tight", and offer their examples.

I personally find the type of discussions on ENZ a lot more valuable than black and white facts or positives and negatives.

[nate]

For the record, I, too, have a fee-free checking account at Westpac. I have to do my banking online, but so long as I don't get paper summaries, see a banker, etc. there are no fees.

[yuutamichael]

I'm quite mystified why more than a few people on here insist that I must somehow be unhappy with NZ if I'm posting negative information. Is it really that rare for other people to be able to see both sides of a situation and feel that it is important to hear both, the way I do?

I'm also mystified as to why my personal situation has any relevance to whether or not the things I've mentioned should be mentioned.


It might have something to do with tone or you might be misinterpretting our responses (well, not JoHnH's, he's pretty straight forward). I don't think I said you were unhappy.

Just wanted to hear more details on your situation here that may bring things to light. I found Sweetpea's post really informative because it does sound like a lot of things about New Zealand frustrate her and, just from personal experience, I'd say that going to Uni down there wouldn't be high on my recommendations and it's the reason I've stayed close to Auckland. As much as I like rural New Zealand, I also like city life and city people. Her description of Palmerston North being a surprise would be some of the best advice in this forum, in my opinion. University towns in New Zealand aren't like University towns in the States. To continue on this Auckland University doesn't have many of the community based features that one might expect from a college in America. Great school but no game days and fewer ways to get involved.

I guess what I'm trying to communicate is that generalities are less helpful than the specifics that led people to draw them.


It's not our place to tell them that should be okay with not having "Reduced Fat" items available, or that they shouldn't want to import items because it hurts the NZ Economy.

Uhm, actually I can share that opinion, if I want, because I believe it. I prefer not having foods that are packed with chemicals around. It's better for my health (as I have low impulse control, probably an American tendancy). If someone's going to miss things like that then I'd definitely say that we don't have those. My reaction to that is a little more positive in that I look on the bright side of not having things like that around.

I also never told anyone not to import things, just explained the reason why we pay GST on imported items and that it's not always that strict. I'm all about finding ways to get things I love, including electronics in to the country, cheap. For getting really upset about people misinterpreting the things your saying it seems you're taking a bit of liberty with what I've said.

which certainly seem to indicate that they think they will no longer have to worry about saving for retirement because NZ provides a pension

When I read that I took from that they meant they wouldn't need to fund their 401k on their own but would rather be receiving help from the government and their employer. Maybe I'm wrong. Still, if your interpretation of it's correct then Kiwisaver does effectively mean they don't have to worry about it again as it's the government forcing everyone to save for retirement. Should they save more? Absolutely. Is it a better program than what most Americans have? Yes.

Just because people disagree with you or can see the bright side of some of the negatives you point out doesn't mean they're trying to keep people from getting information, rather we want people to have a balanced view. Some of us genuinely don't have the problems you're having. If you're saying things that are demonstrably wrong like fees on bank accounts (my Wells Fargo account in the States had mindnumbingly ridiculous fees, my Kiwi Bank account has really low fees), GST limits on imports, or that Kiwisaver exists we're going to correct you. Doesn't mean we dislike you or think you hate New Zealand but rather, like you, we're trying to give as much information as possible.

[Ana&Steve]

I value all of the opinions on this forum. I also like that when someone posts negative opinions that are stated too much like facts, another member comes along and moderates the post with their experiences. I hope no one gets so upset about the current discussion that they stop participating on this forum; I hate when that happens.

I have a question for the several Americans that have recently received job offers from overseas: We have found this so difficult! I would like to know what line of work you are in and how you made the contacts that landed you the j/o. Also, how did you deal with the reluctance they tend to have with overseas applicants? If you are shy you can PM me the answers!;)

[sweetpea]

...because we're all here for such a HUGE variety of reasons that you simply can't generalise and tell people they will or won't be better off, warmer, more social etc without knowing something of their circumstance. I think you'll find most of the people on here describe NZ through their own experiences and based on their personal financial needs and advise people as such...

I agree in part, at least. I do think that there is a higher standard on this forum applied to those who post less than positive things. Should there be? Maybe, maybe not.

I think that posting unqualified positives has pitfalls too, but people who are posting "NZ is great!" are not under the same scrutiny or encouraged to qualify their statements as much, as, say, Jolie or I are. For example, the statement "NZ is a great place to raise kids" comes up again and again. I'm not sure I've ever seen this qualified: whose kids? in what type of community in NZ? what kind of schooling environment are they coming from? what kind of temperament does the child have? is the child at all interested in sports? That sort of thing.

[yuutamichael]

I have a question for the several Americans that have recently received job offers from overseas: We have found this so difficult! I would like to know what line of work you are in and how you made the contacts that landed you the j/o. Also, how did you deal with the reluctance they tend to have with overseas applicants?

I'd imagine that it would be really difficult finding a job offers from overseas. I could see if you have a lot of experience in a field that requires many years of long training. For those of us who are younger I think this can be difficult. My recommendation would be to come to New Zealand on a working holiday visa if you're under 30, hunt around for job that's willing to take you on temporarily to test you out and then apply for Residency when they're willing to offer you a permanent position (which will be a separate job offer).

But all that's incredibly off topic. This forum is supposed to be about ways that Americans are Adjusting to New Zealand. So I'll change the subject back to that. I'm assuming most of us living here use the New Zealand spelling of words like 'humour' or 'colour'. Anyone who holds on tight? What about when you're dealing with old friends or family in America? I find when I spell things that way in correspondences to America I always worry that I'm coming off snooty.

[Moorf]

I don't think I've seen anywhere a post that just states "NZ is great for kids". :uhoh What would be the point? Instead the majority of references you will find are other people's experiences to draw on and to compare with or their opinions - fact checking is great but there's nothing like hearing it from people who are here (and, if the majority of people are happy then that will most likely be reflected in the make-up for a forum imho).

In fact, I'd say you hadn't read through the forum enough if you seriously think that:

For example, the statement "NZ is a great place to raise kids" comes up again and again. I'm not sure I've ever seen this qualified: whose kids? in what type of community in NZ? what kind of schooling environment are they coming from? what kind of temperament does the child have? is the child at all interested in sports? That sort of thing.

Whose kids? Proably the poster's... What community? I'm sure if you ask they'll tell you. What kind of environment? Again, usually offered in a post, or question it - we do. Don't agree? Say so!

What you will find on ENZ are threads where people have had an opinion / experience whether it be that, for instance, they don't like the teaching methods (some will say they do), some parents think their kids aren't being challenged (and some believe they are), and some parents love their kid's schools (and some, quite frankly, don't). For instance: http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12760&highlight=myth

[Moorf]

But all that's incredibly off topic. This forum is supposed to be about ways that Americans are Adjusting to New Zealand.

Yes please. We can have another thread to discuss the worthiness of ENZ...

[yuutamichael]

I agree in part, at least. I do think that there is a higher standard on this forum applied to those who post less than positive things. Should there be? Maybe, maybe not.
Yep. But, if someone says something, good or bad, that contradicts what's my experience I'll pipe up.

I think that posting unqualified positives has pitfalls too, but people who are posting "NZ is great!" are not under the same scrutiny or encouraged to qualify their statements as much, as, say, Jolie or I are.
I'm not for blanket New Zealand is great statements either, from my first post in this forum I've been fairly specific that New Zealand has been great for me. Still I'm really curious to hear how people who are finding negatives are adjusting. Hopefully most things that are different can be adjusted to. What's the alternative?

I'm not sure I've ever seen this qualified: whose kids? in what type of community in NZ? what kind of schooling environment are they coming from? what kind of temperament does the child have? is the child at all interested in sports? That sort of thing.
Lisa, my partner, is an early childhood educator and says things are great here as far as how much assistance kids get at a young age. The curriculum, if you find a good Early Childhood Education Centre, can give your child a real leg up. Over the next few years the qualification standards for early childhood educators is going up which is only good for the children.

That said it depends on the area your living in, especially as kids get older. The decile level of the school your kid goes to makes a big difference. Schools genuinely seem safer here and the options for what path you'd like to tread seems much more varied but again I bet that varies by area.

For me, I'd say that I also love the multi-cultural aspects of Auckland and, when I have kids, taking them to everything from Maori language classes, to the Pasifika Festiva, to the Chinese Lantern Festival. I like the idea of my children being raised with a plethora of cultures to draw upon and interact with. I'd imagine other areas of New Zealand aren't so lucky.

Anyone actually raising kids in New Zealand have any experiences to share? I imagine that it'd be hard the first time your kid calls you 'mummy'.

[Moorf]

Really, well I thought I'd read tons of information on this forum from folks who have said what it's like here for their kids.... :confused:

New thread is great idea though, especially if you're looking for specifics :nice1

[JoHnH]

Sweetpea puzzled again.

"For example, the statement "NZ is a great place to raise kids" comes up again and again. I'm not sure I've ever seen this qualified: whose kids? in what type of community in NZ? what kind of schooling environment are they coming from? what kind of temperament does the child have? is the child at all interested in sports? That sort of thing."

Actually I can't remember seeing anything on these boards about the experience of American kids "adapting" to NZ.
But there's heaps by Brits in their Blogs and their "months or years in" posts which are pretty positive about their experiences of NZ schools, particularly higher-decile ones, and the enhancement of family life which a simpler and less materialistic lifestyle has brought them. So obviously it's "Brits' kids, in ordinary NZ communities, coming from the British schooling environment, with childen of normal temperament, interested in sport, music, drama, and most everything else." Are they very different from American kids?

The Brits do fuss about their kids going barefoot everywhere though. Why?

There's a long-standing NZ tradition, as old as school milk (yuk) which has curiously survived. That's the universal practice of "pedestrian crossing" monitors, the senior primary school kids with long poles who control the traffic outside schools at 3.00 pm. Considering the increased volume of traffic nowadays, and the increasing number of criminal hoons around, there seem to have been remarkably few instances of accidents and transgressions in recent years. Society may be deteriorating in many ways, but school crossings still seem to be sacrosanct, even for the worst of us. A sort of cultural conditioning, perhaps?

Is that part of being a "great place to raise kids?"

[willsken]

The Brits do fuss about their kids going barefoot everywhere though. Why?


Not all Brits do.... but maybe that's because I lived in South Africa as a child and spent most of my time with bare feet! :)

[Moorf]

Another thread ;) ?

[willsken]

Another thread ;) ?

Do your children have a better life in NZ? Thread started. (I take it that's what you meant :uhoh)

Here is the thread:

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20466

[JPOnion]

I'm assuming most of us living here use the New Zealand spelling of words like 'humour' or 'colour'. Anyone who holds on tight? What about when you're dealing with old friends or family in America? I find when I spell things that way in correspondences to America I always worry that I'm coming off snooty.

I have absolutely no idea when or where I picked it up, but I've found I typically use the British spelling of some words, especially those you listed with the "ou" instead of just "o". I don't think I'll have to make any changes when talking to family / friends in the states, though, since I don't think anybody has actually caught on yet. Wierd.

[Jolie]

Just wanted to hear more details on your situation here that may bring things to light. I found Sweetpea's post really informative because it does sound like a lot of things about New Zealand frustrate her... Some of us genuinely don't have the problems you're having.
NOTHING about New Zealand frustrates me and I'm NOT having any problems here! (other than the inability to obtain Kosher Dill pickles, and the fact that some people on this forum won't tolerate any posts that contradict their view of NZ). Didn't my previous post about what I love about living in NZ make that clear??? Why must you INSIST that, simply because I want prospective migrants to hear both the pros and the cons of moving here, I MUST be having problems with living in New Zealand???

Kiwisaver does effectively mean they don't have to worry about it again as it's the government forcing everyone to save for retirement.
Um, no, it doesn't. Kiwisaver savings alone aren't going to be enough, especially since, as I understand it, the government is going to reduce the amount of pension paid to people who are also receiving Kiwisaver payments. And in the U.S., for 401ks, Employers typically match $1 for every $1 contributed by the employee, up to 6% of their gross income -- plus the employee is able to contribute up to 10% of their gross income if they wish. Kiwisaver doesn't match that. The government will give you an initial payment of $1000, plus $1040 per year IF you participate. Employer contributions will be at the rate of 1% of gross income for the tax year 2008-2009, 2% from 2009-2010, 3% from 2010-2011, and 4% from 2012 onwards -- and that's ONLY if National doesn't reduce that -- which they have promised to do -- once they take control of the government.

If you're saying things that are demonstrably wrong like fees on bank accounts
In the U.S., I had a no-fee checking and savings account -- NO miniumum balance, no monthly fee, no ATM fees, no EFTPOS fees, and I STILL got paper statements in the mail. I've yet to see anyone state that that option is available here in NZ.

[dilanium]

401Ks in the states are good things- if your employer contributes to them, which not all of them do.

[IanW99]

...
In the U.S., I had a no-fee checking and savings account -- NO miniumum balance, no monthly fee, no ATM fees, no EFTPOS fees, and I STILL got paper statements in the mail. I've yet to see anyone state that that option is available here in NZ.
...


Actually, it has already been stated:-

i have a fee free account with TSB (taranaki savings bank) but i'm not sure is it available "to everyone" (i'm from taranaki, have had an account in one form or another with them since i was 5).
...


From the website:-

Personal Cheque & savings account transaction fees:

Activity fee: Free
ATM fee: Free
EFTPOS fee: Free
Monthly base fee: Free
Manual/teller transaction fee: Free
Account administration fee: Free
Fastbank fee: Free

But as she pointed out, not sure who is eligible for this account.

Out of interest (excuse the pun) but what are the interest rates you get from a US bank checking account compared to regular savings account?

In NZ, yes they do have a fee based approach to banking, which doesn't at first glance seem very good compared to the free banking in the UK. But in NZ the interest paid is much higher, so overall you are unlikely to actually pay any fees (as they are effectively paid out of the interest) unless of course you maintain a really low balance?

Ian

[BkyMonster]

I'd say it is pretty unusual to have a good interest rate or an interest rate at all on a checking account in the US. Ours now has 1.5% or something.
Most of mine haven't even been free unless I had direct deposit. YMMV.

I don't think I have read any accounts of American children adjusting to NZ. However, Americans don't usually even make the top 10 countries to immigrate to NZ so that isn't that surprising. One of the reasons I'm quite interested in this thread is that information from an American perspective is hard to find.
I'd imagine Americans (unless fortunate enough to have children in something like a waldorf or upper middle class suburban school) would be plenty pleased about what NZ schools offer. From what I've read anyhow NZ schools tend to have activities and from my experience American schools are first on the chopping block when budget woes raise their heads. American schools don't often have music, sports (other than 1-2 elite teams of say, football) art or really anything other than what they need to have students pass standardized tests.

I'd have to say that some of the information Jolie provided seemed offkilter from what other people have said in the past. Perhaps they just have different focuses. *shrug*
It is quite different for Americans I think coming to NZ as NZ--or any other countries really, are not marketed to Americans at all. Other states in the US, yes. Countries no. So maybe we have less of a marketing image for NZ to live up to when we get here.

[yuutamichael]

NOTHING about New Zealand frustrates me and I'm NOT having any problems here! (other than the inability to obtain Kosher Dill pickles, and the fact that some people on this forum won't tolerate any posts that contradict their view of NZ). Didn't my previous post about what I love about living in NZ make that clear??? Why must you INSIST that, simply because I want prospective migrants to hear both the pros and the cons of moving here, I MUST be having problems with living in New Zealand???


Although your quality-of-life will likely be much better here, it's pretty certain that your standard-of-living won't be anywhere close to what it is the U.S.

Sorry if I caused offense. But just to clarify, you haven't had first hand experience of a drop in standard-of-living? That's seems like a problem to me. But one that I haven't experienced moving here but I'm willing to chalk that up to the specifics of my situation, which I've shared a little of.

[Jolie]

Actually, it has already been stated:-
From the website:-

Personal Cheque & savings account transaction fees:
Activity fee: Free
ATM fee: Free
EFTPOS fee: Free
Monthly base fee: Free
Manual/teller transaction fee: Free
Account administration fee: Free
Fastbank fee: Free
This personal chequing account is not available as a standalone account, it is only available to those who ALSO have a Premier Chequing Account, which requires a minimum $5,000 balance or $10 fee each month that minimum balance is not maintained. The Premier gives you 5% interest, the personal gives you 2% if your monthly balance is over $500.

U.S. chequing accounts typically pay 0-2% interest -- however, since I keep the bulk of my funds in my Savings accounts, and transfer funds into chequing only when it gets low, that's never been a problem for me.

NZ does pay higher interest on Savings. This is an improvement for you if you never have any loans. However, if you do take out loans on cars, houses, or anything else, the interest rates are MUCH higher than in the U.S. So it depends on whether you will have loans and/or mortgages here as to whether you will benefit from or be penalised by the higher interest rates. Just as in the U.S., if you put $100,000 in the bank and take out a $100,000 mortgage, the interest you receive on the Savings is not going to cover the cost of the interest you pay on the Loan.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but of which migrants need to be aware, is that the NZ govt will give you a 5-year amnesty on your investments in other countries (as long as you are not receiving the Family supplemental benefit here -- you have to choose either the 5-year amnesty OR the Family Benefit). After your amnesty has expired, if you do not close your overseas investments and bring the money over here, you will have to pay tax each year on the gain (appreciation) on your overseas investments -- even if you don't actually realise the annual gain (i.e., receive physical profits by cashing in the investment), you will still have to pay tax to the NZ government on it!

It is my understanding, however, that the unrealised gain in 401k or 503c accounts is currently exempt from NZ taxation until you reach 65 and are actually receiving payments from them (note that the gain in payments received from these accounts in the U.S. after the age of 65 is tax-free). If someone knows otherwise, please do post the correct information here.


just to clarify, you haven't had first hand experience of a drop in standard-of-living? That's seems like a problem to me.
Sure, I've had a drop in my standard of living from that in the U.S.! But since I did extensive research before I came here, and extensive calculation as to what my standard-of-living would be here, I was expecting that -- and considered it an acceptable trade-off for the improved quality-of-life I would get in NZ. Therefore, it hasn't been a problem for me.

But note that I have been able to afford to get out and enjoy everything this country has to offer. Of the things that I listed in my post stating what I love about NZ, almost ALL of them involve some expense for travel, lodging, and/or minimal admission fees. And a fair number of them involve large admission fees. So a person or family moving here who is going to have little or no disposable income, in any given year would likely not be able to do more than a few of the things I listed. That's why it is so important for prospective migrants to understand all of the financial implications of moving to New Zealand.

[IanW99]

This personal chequing account is not available as a standalone account, it is only available to those who ALSO have a Premier Chequing Account, which requires a minimum $5,000 balance or $10 fee each month that minimum balance is not maintained. The Premier gives you 5% interest, the personal gives you 2% if your monthly balance is over $500.
...
Something else that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but of which migrants need to be aware, is that the NZ govt will give you a 5-year amnesty on your investments in other countries (as long as you are not receiving the Family supplemental benefit here -- you have to choose either the 5-year amnesty OR the Family Benefit).
...


Actually the account I quoted is also available to all Taranaki residents (without needing to also take out the Premier checque account), so for anyone heading for Taranaki they not only get all the benefits listed but interest is also paid.

The tax exemption you mention is for 4 years and not 5.

Ian

[sweetpea]

JEven Sweetpea, I think it was, posted amusingly about her initial feeling of insecurity in crossing the road.

Whaaaat? Me having problems crossing the road? Please do share. I have successfully crossed streets for 37 years now on four continents, and as such, make my mama real proud. :D

And BTW in the great banking debate - two American checking accounts (Citibank, Golden1 Credit Union), no monthly fees, or fees of any kind for everyday transactions. One NZ checking account (National Bank), monthly fees plus charges for checks and other stuff that would be free in the US. But, in dealbreaking terms, the bank thing that gets me here is the lack of anything like a 30-year fixed mortgage product. The longest fixed rate you can get is, what, 3 years, 5 years (feel free to correct me on this one, I'm familiar with the generalities not the details)? And mortgage interest rates are high. For me, because I'd need a mortgage and am relatively broke, this would cancel out any benefit of interest earned on my checking/savings.

As far as adjusting... For the first 4 months, I loved loved loved everything Kiwi. NZ could do no wrong. Then the honeymoon ended. I was pretty neutral for the next year or so, then the bad started to really outweigh the good. Saw things at two of my jobs (Tall Poppy and She'll be right-related) that were pretty unfortunate. A friend's experience at the local hospital was hair-raising. Got tired of being charged the "American Price" for things. That sort of thing. The or/our, ize/ise spelling differences are minor, just write to whoever is the audience.

[jewelsvani]

one thing I add is it is a hell of a lot cheaper to have a baby here than the UK, don't know about the US but no way could we afford it back home, but over here we can. So that's something that may be cheaper for people who come over.

Groceries can be bought cheaper than the uk if you use the same guy on the farmer markets like we do 40$ buys us enough food for the week in veg terms, meat is pretty expensicve but not too bad. For us its been a great move we do however have around 1000 dollars spare a month after all our loans rent etc and bills are payed so we are quite well off I suppose. its not all doom and gloom NZ can be a great place to live.


There is only one way to know for sure and that is to come here, at least you tried and its a great adventure. Life is about living and emigrating certainly gives you that feeling wether it works out or not. :cheers

[yuutamichael]

I'm marking this as the demarcation line. From here forth this thread is specifically about Americans Adjusting to New Zealand. No one is allowed to get offended when corrected or is allowed to make unnecessary interpretations of others motivations. If you'd like to discuss something that doesn't deal with Americans Adjusting (both words being key) to life in this land then feel free to create a new thread. (There seems to be a demand for a forum about banking fees, oddly enough, a subject people are surprisingly passionate about)

[sbinder]

Got swamped at work and sorta lost track of this thread for a bit, so I am coming back in a little late in the game.

Got tired of being charged the "American Price" for things. That sort of thing. The or/our, ize/ise spelling differences are minor, just write to whoever is the audience.
Yikes! An "American Price"?!?! I haven't ever bothered checking prices I am charged for anything - call me naïve if you want! Out of honest curiosity, is this a commonplace occurrence for others out there? Should I be taking care in this regard?

On the second comment, I do have to make a minor complaint about spelling. I rather like the different English written here - it is a bit of a challenge that keeps me on my toes when writing reports. But the spelling I see in emails, advertisements, reports, requests for tender, all sorts of official documents, is atrocious. To put this in context, I am a bit of a grammar nut - I have "Eats, Shoots & Leaves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves)" by Lynne Truss in my top books list. I don't think I will be grabbing the next ship home on account of misspellings from clients, but I am eagerly awaiting the invention of the new-fangled word processing spell checker here! :)

:cheers

[Jolie]

But the spelling I see in emails, advertisements, reports, requests for tender, all sorts of official documents, is atrocious.
I do see a lot of bad spelling here, in different areas as you mention. However, I can't say that I think the amount of bad spelling here is worse than in the U.S., where I saw words spelled incorrectly all the time in newspapers (both printed and online), in advertisements, in technical documents, etc.

I think the decline in spelling and grammar has less to do with cultural differences, and a lot more to do with the advent of txtspeak and e-mail as common forms of communication -- where it's considered by many to be acceptable to use abbreviations or b@st@rdised spellings of words.

I think many people are now just never learning proper spelling to begin with -- and if they don't learn it, there is no longer any pressure to do so.

[benandclare]

Yikes! An "American Price"?!?! I haven't ever bothered checking prices I am charged for anything - call me naïve if you want! Out of honest curiosity, is this a commonplace occurrence for others out there? Should I be taking care in this regard?




Don't worry there's an UK price too :D

And dont forget to ask for discount :nice1 Apart from supermarkets always ask over $50 as to what the best price is or what's the discount?

[Bozeman]

Last time I checked, Utopia does not exist. Why is it that someone trying to present a balanced view of NZ often gets beaten up for being negative? "If you don't like it here, go back to your own country!" We came here with our eyes wide open and our homework done and, we love the place. To deny, however, that our standard of living is not lower would be madness. Forget the salary. Much higher taxes and, the real kicker, taxes on our worldwide income take a huge chunk out of our disposable income. Add to that the fact that prices for most things are much higher. Does it make me a NZ-hater for pointing out what I see as the obvious? Should we now have to scramble back to where we came as punishment for my comments. Again, we knew the situation before we moved and we accept it. Others need to make their own informed decisions.

[dilanium]

Bozeman- I have no problem with what you said. It is honest. However- to say that all Americans will have a lower standard of living (or that all Americans here do have a lower standard of living) is what I object to. Mainly because it's incorrect (because I know that I do not have a lower standard of living) or because I believe it's impolite to speak for other people.

I digress, as I said above, I have no problem with negative posts, I think it's just the tone of the writing (the way things are said) that other me. It's hard communicating on the internet- something that you type and mean with one tone (that if speaking in person or over the phone would be interpreted properly) doesn't get recognised- it gets misinterpreted and people answer to the tone that they perceived.

If we were all purely logical (like Vulcans... (go trekkie me!)) then this wouldn't be a problem, the issue is that we feel- We care what other people say about the land we've grown to love, we care about how they say it, we care about how people respond to what we've written, and we care when they ignore it. Some people care more than others no doubt (if you know the Meyers-Briggs personality types- the Fs will care more than the Ts for sure), it needs to be recognised that people will respond differently to the same thing on the internet- mainly because you can interpret everything written in so many different ways.

In any-case I don't think anyone here is an NZ-hater. If they were an NZ-hater they wouldn't be here. I think people just need to read over what they write and really try to read it in the 3rd person to try to get an idea of how it will go over. I also think people need to speak for themselves and not try to put their experience on the broad scale (such as: "I hate silver beet" instead of "All Americans will hate Silver beet").

To add to the real discussion at hand:
It is really lovely to get up when it's sunny out, make a cup of tea and sit by my east facing window (so nice and warm!). I would never have done that where I lived in the states (I blame lack of sunny days).

[nate]

I do see a lot of bad spelling here, in different areas as you mention. However, I can't say that I think the amount of bad spelling here is worse than in the U.S., where I saw words spelled incorrectly all the time in newspapers (both printed and online), in advertisements, in technical documents, etc.



I have to disagree with you, Jolie. In my experience, the spelling and especially grammar/punctuation is much worse in NZ than in the U.S. I've been doing a lot of reading since I arrived in NZ, and I literally have not found a single newspaper or magazine article without a mistake in grammar. To me, it's been blatant, so blatant that with about 50% of the articles I read, I have to stop and re-read a poorly constructed sentence to figure out what's being said. I rarely had that experience in the U.S. I keep bugging my sister, who is a great editor, to move over here, because she would have plenty of work!

[dilanium]

I keep bugging my sister, who is a great editor, to move over here, because she would have plenty of work!

Except no one would hire her- my husband is an editor too and he's been looking for a job for going on 2 month now.

I don't think most kiwis know this is an issue.

[Oregonkiwi]

In my experience, the spelling and especially grammar/punctuation is much worse in NZ than in the U.S.

Agreed.

I don't think most kiwis know this is an issue.
I think they do - a lot of kiwis would love to have better newspapers - but a lot of the problem lies (in my opinion) with cost-cutting measures by media companies that have led to the disappearance of editing positions over the past few years.

Dilanium, my husband is an editor too - he did find work pretty easily last year, although in Auckland not PN - PM me if you'd like to discuss jobs etc.

[dilanium]

The real issue is our location, I know that. It's just frustrating.

[BkyMonster]

I can see jobs being location based being ...interesting for us. I've noted the geography-job relationship with some interest. Comes with a smaller country I guess. Though really I guess that isn't much different than here where I have to be near a research university to be able to get a job. Jobs for me tend to be in Palmerston North or Dunedin. Best work prospects for OH are in Welly, so maybe I can commute to Palmy?