[Ojai]

I have been noting the complaints about things in New Zealand like lack of vacation time, poor wages, less sick time, no pensions, etc. I know few Americans emigrate to New Zealand, so it's hard for me to compare opinions on the boards between people in the US and the people in the UK.

The thing is, all the things that are complained about sound like paradise to me. I am used to paying out the nose for health care, funding my own 401(k), getting two weeks paid leave accrued after the first year, wages not keeping up with inflation, hidden fees in everything, etc. Compared to this, what I will find in New Zealand sounds pretty great.

Four weeks of vacation guaranteed? A state pension? High interest rate for savings? Lower average hours worked? Cheap cheap cheap health care! Am I missing gotchas other than the high taxes and cost of living (which again, doesn't seem that bad to me)?

Maybe it's just that the US is as bad as it has started to seem, and NZ just compares really really well...

[Sam B]

I work with an American who has been here 6 months. She loves the holidays, thinks they are really generous, but is shocked daily by the prices of clothes, food, eating out etc etc. I think things must be much cheaper in the USA. She also dislikes what she sees as sloppy working practices.

[TheDude]

I've accepted a job in Queenstown and will be there soon. The 4 weeks vacation in such a beautiful country vs. 2 weeks here in the states was one of the major selling points for me. I've been fighting my company forever to increase our vacation time and they have REFUSED! They would rather give me a larger salary than more vacation time. I had to turn down a trip to South America with a couple of PhD students a local university b/c of my job here in the States.

B/c of this wonderful site, I plan on purchasing enough clothes for 2 years before I leave the states.

[nickydwuk]

In the NHS we currently get 35 days annual leave (this includes bank holidays) so I will really feel the pinch when we get to NZ but the lifestyle will more than make up for it - I hope!!

[Ojai]

35 days! I get 10 accruing. The four weeks is going to be heaven.

Like The Dude (who abides) because of the advice like Sam B has, we have been out buying new clothes and shoes before we leave. Costco runs have a new urgency now!

[migratory birds]

An American ex-pat friend of ours whose first job in NZ was director of a rural library got 6 wks paid leave from the get-go which he was able to take at one time (to travel to visit family and old freinds).

A midwifery colleague gets 8 weeks paid leave annually within her first couple years of practise.

In the US, you'd have to work with a company for MANY years before getting even 4 weeks paid leave...let alone 8.

[NZAussieGirl]

Nicydwuk, you get 4 weeks annual leave (20 days) plus bank holidays (11), so not much difference to your current situation. :)

[Howie]

I'm not American, so perhaps unqualified to answer your post :laugh

"Stuff" is probably the biggest difference. Yes everything is expensive, from clothes, to books, to shampoo, to cold medicine, to groceries. You do learn where to shop and you to get desensitized to the prices eventually. But the other big difference is just not being able to find things. Now I don't just mean you may have to change your favourite type of cereal, but there's just not the same amount of choice. The grocery store is probably the thing that's the most different. I just got back from a trip to Canada and going to the grocery store and remembering all of the things that I even forgot I missed, was the most surprising. Oh and I also made a big trip to costco to buy really weird stuff like shampoo, cold medicine and lint rollers and dog toys. I didn't actually buy any clothes. I've found places to buy cheap clothes on sale here. And I tend to buy low quality clothes often, rather good stuff anyways.

Hope that helps.

[nickydwuk]

Nicydwuk, you get 4 weeks annual leave (20 days) plus bank holidays (11), so not much difference to your current situation. :)

I thought so - wasn't sure how they worked the bank holidays though. Plus with days off midweek I don't use holidays up for birthdays etc...

[Alan]

Aren't Costco meant to be opening somewhere in NZ?

[Ojai]

I'm not American, so perhaps unqualified to answer your post :laugh


This is quite helpful, and you are totally qualified, especially with the different reactions I am reading from Americans vs. South Africans vs. Brits who have just relocated to NZ.

I'm not sure if we are just way behind the UK in livability (I know we are), but it seems like I may have an easier time adjusting since I will actually be improving in almost every area except cost of living.

I'm not sure if this is accurate, it's just the impression that I am getting.

[lindreth]

Apart from financial issues, it seems that americans may have other hurdles to overcome that the british will not - the kiwi culture and language seem to lean more british than american in my (very) limited experience.
I agree that 4 weeks' vacation will be fantastic. With all that time off, we hope to be able to do more traveling. My concern is that wages will be so low that we won't be able to afford overseas travel very often if at all, and that even intracountry travel may be a stretch. I'd be interested to hear if others have been able to make it work.

[Sam B]

2 weeks holiday - is life worth living with only 2 weeks holiday? What can you have to look forward to? I now have 5 weeks per year plus 13 statutory days with the ministry of Ed. Similar to what I had with the NHS in the UK. It still isn't enough!

[dilanium]

2 weeks holiday - is life worth living with only 2 weeks holiday? What can you have to look forward to? I now have 5 weeks per year plus 13 statutory days with the ministry of Ed. Similar to what I had with the NHS in the UK. It still isn't enough!

Yup! I don't even get 2 weeks vacation at my current job. If I were to stay here I'd be working to earn one week of vacation next year.

[Ojai]

Apart from financial issues, it seems that americans may have other hurdles to overcome that the british will not - the kiwi culture and language seem to lean more british than american in my (very) limited experience.
I agree that 4 weeks' vacation will be fantastic. With all that time off, we hope to be able to do more traveling. My concern is that wages will be so low that we won't be able to afford overseas travel very often if at all, and that even intracountry travel may be a stretch. I'd be interested to hear if others have been able to make it work.

Oh yes, we are preparing for HUGE culture shock. Fortunately we are in high demand jobs, so we should make a sufficient amount to occasionally travel, at least intracountry, on some of these vacations. Er, holidays.

2 weeks holiday - is life worth living with only 2 weeks holiday? What can you have to look forward to? I now have 5 weeks per year plus 13 statutory days with the ministry of Ed. Similar to what I had with the NHS in the UK. It still isn't enough!

This is the very question I was asking myself recently. Remember, two weeks isn't even common, most people get less. I was just working and working and working and that was all. Is that worth living? Obviously I came to the answer1 :nice1

[benandclare]

This is the very question I was asking myself recently. Remember, two weeks isn't even common, most people get less. I was just working and working and working and that was all. Is that worth living? Obviously I came to the answer1 :nice1


Could you take unpaid holiday?

Ben

[Bozeman]

I am an American who will be moving to Christchurch with my family within the next 2-3 months. Today I get 22 days of paid leave (after 15 years with the company) plus around 15 days of public holidays (Hong Kong) so, a bit ironically, the move will entail a step down in the days-off department.

Picking up on the cost elements of this thread... I do continue to be shocked at how much almost everything costs in NZ. For example, I saw a pair of running shoes advertised as on sale in Christchurch two weeks ago for NZ$300. I paid US$120 for the very same pair in Chicago. My wife almost choked the first time she walked through an NZ supermarket. We have been advised that "you get used to it". In any event, we're going in with our eyes open.

[Ojai]

Could you take unpaid holiday?

Ben

You sometimes can, but it is usually STRONGLY discouraged. In fact, many places you are made to feel guilty taking your vacation time that you have. This isn't everywhere, but it has been this way at places I have worked.

And of course, you will NEVER take two weeks straight off.

[Sam B]

AArrgghh! How do working mothers ever get to see their kids? Or dads for that matter? It sounds awful!

[dharder]

You sometimes can, but it is usually STRONGLY discouraged

I thought you had a legal entitlement to a certain number of unpaid weeks, which included sick leave.

In any case, I can see that it would be an improvement for most Americans, and a step down for British people as far as leave goes. My NHS contract said that I'd get six months of paid sick leave in a year, here I get 10 days (and should be grateful, as it is twice the legal minimum).

Oh well, better stop now.

Daniela

[Bruckner]

I get 20 days vacation but my manager closed down our project for the Christmas holidays so there went 6 days right off the bat. And it wasn't my choice. I like the fact I get 20 days but I didn't appreciate that I couldn't choose when to take them.

Emily

[dharder]

I get 20 days vacation but my manager closed down our project for the Christmas holidays so there went 6 days right off the bat. And it wasn't my choice.

That's actually not too uncommon in the UK as well, though normally at the companies I've worked so far it was 3 days (between Christmas and New Year).

What I don't like here is that you have to accrue your holidays and can only take them after I've put them in my holiday account, so to speak.

Ah well. I've told my OH that I wouldn't have moved here a year ago, when they only had 3 weeks holiday legal requirement. That is just plain ridiculous!

Daniela

[Ojai]

AArrgghh! How do working mothers ever get to see their kids? Or dads for that matter? It sounds awful!

I saw my son from 7:00 at night til 8:00 for his bedtime, then on weekends. That's how you see them.

I thought you had a legal entitlement to a certain number of unpaid weeks, which included sick leave.

In any case, I can see that it would be an improvement for most Americans, and a step down for British people as far as leave goes. My NHS contract said that I'd get six months of paid sick leave in a year, here I get 10 days (and should be grateful, as it is twice the legal minimum).

Oh well, better stop now.

Daniela

Oh you do (though there is no legal minimum), but it's, you know, frowned upon to lavishly take it all, and it would be really hard to take more than a week at a time. At least everywhere that I have worked so far (I'm in my mid-30s). So as far as I am concerned, four weeks vacation, 11 holidays and 5 sick days is heaven! And that's just the legal minimum. I don't actually know what I would do with even more time! I'm not exaggerating, I am thinking about it and I really can't comprehend it.

[willsken]

Reading this thread, makes me realise how very lucky us teachers are. :o

[tigerlily]

I big difference I notice as an American is that hospital care is free. It seems like a basic human right that if you are injured, you should be able to get treatment without fear- or in my case, if you children are very ill you don't have to fear taking them to the hospital because of the $5000 (yes, it can be five thousand USD to be admitted to the hospital). That, to me, is a huge huge improvement.

I lived in America with great health insurance, but I also lived there as a student, with terrible insurance, and it was really a scary way to live. I had a huge sigh of relief when I got here and knew that if someone in the family was ill that I could take them to the hospital and not hesitate that I was not going to be able to afford it.

PS. If we want to get private insurance as a family of 4 here, it is going to cost us $75 a month- and that is if the employer is not paying a part of it! Just walking in off the street, that's the rate!!

[Sam B]

What happens if someone who is completely destitute gets run over? Do they get it for free?

[dilanium]

They will get massive bills in the mail if they are not on medicare/medicaid (even if the are). Some private hospitals have sent people away to other hospitals because they couldn't pay even though it was the closer hospital.

And private insurance for $75/month for a family of 4! WOW!

My OH pays over $300 a month for the two of us after the company contributions.

[skibumwa]

Sorry in advance.. this is an important topic to me so this might be a long post :)

I have to admit being here almost 8 months now that prices of some stuff still shocks me - eg. new cars!!! OUCH!

Soooooo I do my best to save $$$. I shop for food at Pack N Save for 95% of my grociers. It's reminds me of a Sam's Club or Costco in the States, less the annual membership fee. The prices are actually very good. I also shop a lot at The Warehouse. For those who don't know, it's like a Target store which really GOOD prices on misc housewares and stuff. I have yet to buy those newly needed $300 Nike running shoes or sneakers, but I will bypass that stuff by calling a friend of mine who works for REI back in Seattle. I can get stuff for cheap through this person - even with shipping to NZ too. No names mentioned of course. haha! And yes always have stuff mailed to you as a GIFT!

As for lifestyle, it's great here in Welly. I feel it's a small town lifestyle with all the amenities of a large city. I can get to work in 15 minutes by scooter and rarely drive my old reliable Nissan Sentra unless for weekends, for road trips or to run errands (Eg. Pack n Save, etc).

My after work lifestyle is great - I go to Lyall Bay quite a bit surfing/boogie boarding about 3-4 days a week for fun and that elusive WORK/LIFE BALANCE in life that in the USA is nearly impossible to have. I don't watch TV anymore and I am healthier (physically and MENTALLY!) than I have ever been,. :)

I like the ACC (free accident insurance funded by taxes) but hope to never need it!! :no Yes the medical system in the States is broken beyond belief. You can lose your life saving from one accident from your $40,000 USD medical bill for a surgery from an accident.

The medications/perscriptions I can now get are dirt cheap with my PR. I just got medicine for something that would have cost a non-PR $300.00 NZD . I paid only $3.00 NZDfor it. So for those here but not yet PR, STRIVE to get your PR because you'll have all the perks as a born KIWI will have except the Kiwi passport and the right to freely live/work in Australia.

Vacation & time off - I had just ONE week paid time from March 06 - April 07 in Seattle. Lovely eh? Now I get the 4 weeks + 11 statutory days. I am in paradise. For Brits, yeah I can see being upset as don't you get 6 weeks/yr off there normally?

So in general, sure things cost more here but I think if you know how and where to shop and live a simple life you should be OK here and have a nice good life!

I see a few of you EX-PATS on this thread who are in Welly now. Send me a PM and lets all meet up for an EX-PAT -now in NZ - party or meet up.

Cheers to all!

John

[JandM]

For Brits, yeah I can see being upset as don't you get 6 weeks/yr off there normally?

It varies according to the employer/contract, but this is the current law about the minimum.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10034642

Prior to this, M had been getting 21 days including Bank Holidays, with the employer arbitrarily choosing to close the business over Christmas/New Year as the fancy took him and depending how much work was coming in, so taking varying numbers of holiday days out of our control.:( (They've sorted that aspect of it out a bit more fairly now.)

[BkyMonster]

I have a very good benefit package with my current job in the states. State and government jobs give better than average benefits for the US. Looks like I get 22 vacation days a year and 12 sick on top of holidays. I never have time to take them of course and I have to keep them below a certain amount or I lose them. My employer pays my medical, though I am responsible for anything the insurance thinks is too expensive (nearly everything :( ) and co-pays and similar.
I was reading through one of the dental threads and the prices that people were paying were akin to what I pay after insurance. :no

I'm trying to time our move closely to my husband being done with school.
We've been living like students for so long so hopefully there won't be too much shock to our way of life if we are starting our post-student life in NZ.

[daygloweyes]

Thanks Skibum for all of that great information. I'm planning to live/work in Auckland and really haven't thought about getting a car at first...figured I wouldn't have to with the availability of trains/busses??? I really didn't know "stuff" was so expensive in NZ such as clothes, shoes or even groceries but a friend did tell me about The Warehouse so will definitely check it out while I'm there.

Depending on when I go I will take that "seasons" clothes and have somebody ship the rest of my clothes to me. Also most online stores and catalogs will ship worldwide but depending on shipping costs I can always have this stuff shipped to a family member who can then send it to me...and you're right shipping is rather inexpensive as long as you don't need it within a week or less.

I've been working for the government for the past several years and here you do have to work a whole year before you get your two weeks and then accumulate from there - it take 10 years to get 4 weeks. Also have to say that over the years our healthcare coverage has gone from great to mediocre so am mot too concerned what my healthcare will be like in NZ. I've also noticed that in my area of work in NZ the wages do seem a a bit higher compared to the US...but I"m also looking at the exchange rate as well...and perhaps I shouldn't.

I've been looking at monthly rent for flats whether I live alone or decide to have a flatmate and that seems to be comparable to what I pay here and in some areas a little less.

Sorry for the rambling -I'm just so glad I've found a site that I can share information regarding moving/living working in NZ. I've been lost until now :D

[JandM]

really haven't thought about getting a car at first...figured I wouldn't have to with the availability of trains/busses???

That's going to depend enormously on where you live relative to where you work. The comment might sound as if I'm stating the obvious, but 'Auckland' spreads very wide, and parts of it don't have easy public transport to other parts, so it's an angle to be aware of.

[akp713]

At my last job in the US as an auditor for an insurance company I got no vacation time at all, no such thing. I was paid by the audit I completed, so no work, no pay. I also had no medical insurance, couldn't afford it because of a pre-existing condition, an injured toe. I worried every time I got sick because a doctor's visit meant big bucks. Luckily I'm only 22 and quite healthy so I didn't have any big medical costs.

In NZ now as a grad student I pay NZ$445 for the whole year for full medical insurance and when I broke my toe last year I was actually in NZ and ACC covered it even though I wasn't a PR.

The prices of food can be high, especially Parmesan Cheese for my pasta. It's cheaper for me to have my parents ship a half dozen Kraft cheeses to me from the US than it is to buy it here. Petrol is also much more expensive than in the US, currently its NZ$1.74/litre on the North Shore where I live. But for the lifestyle issues and the increased holiday time it's worth it.

Also, I'm training to be a teacher, and NZ teachers are actually paid at least as well and often much better than US teachers! So that's another big plus.

[skibumwa]

You are right.. ACC will cover any visitor for accidents while visiting here, but you won't get any other benefits like prescriptions, student financial aid, etc.. How did you brake your toe may I ask? ouch! :wah


In NZ now as a grad student I pay NZ$445 for the whole year for full medical insurance and when I broke my toe last year I was actually in NZ and ACC covered it even though I wasn't a PR.

[sweetpea]

Maybe it's just that the US is as bad as it has started to seem, and NZ just compares really really well...

Some important things here are indeed much, much better than in the States: health care, acc, and vacation time, specifically.

OTOH, I have to say, as much as I like NZ, it really doesn't compare to the States in many important ways. Wages. Discretionary income. Diversity. Standard of housing. Quality, availability and cost of goods. There are many, many benefits to living in the US that you do not appreciate until you are not there anymore!

Much of the difference between the US and NZ can be traced back to the number of people (or lack thereof) in NZ. The negative consequences of a small population size are something that I hadn't considered before I left the States. Having "not enough people" leads to a higher cost of goods, since there are no economies of scale; it also leads to having perhaps less qualified people in jobs, which can cause frustrations in the workplace; it means there is a lack of a robust counter-culture.

[stu70]

Some important things here are indeed much, much better than in the States: health care, acc, and vacation time, specifically.

OTOH, I have to say, as much as I like NZ, it really doesn't compare to the States in many important ways. Wages. Discretionary income. Diversity. Standard of housing. Quality, availability and cost of goods. There are many, many benefits to living in the US that you do not appreciate until you are not there anymore!

Much of the difference between the US and NZ can be traced back to the number of people (or lack thereof) in NZ. The negative consequences of a small population size are something that I hadn't considered before I left the States. Having "not enough people" leads to a higher cost of goods, since there are no economies of scale; it also leads to having perhaps less qualified people in jobs, which can cause frustrations in the workplace; it means there is a lack of a robust counter-culture.
sweetpea, cheers for this post. Do you feel that with the less qualified people on the jobs, the folks who are well qualified and suited for the role do not get fair treatment (as they might be a minority)? I am not suggesting that most are incompetent, just interested in getting your viewpoint on how this is impacting the folks with good skills to offer. Cheers

[sweetpea]

When I wrote my post above, I wasn't thinking about less qualified people getting hired when other, more qualified people are available. I was thinking of people hired because no one qualified was available.

That said, I have heard - from people in real life and from other places online - that immigrants, especially those of Asian descent, do face discrimination here. (You'll run across some anti-American sentiment as well, although it tends not to be personal.) And, screwing over the foreigner (or "easy mark") seems to be prevalent here, just like many other places around the world.

[akp713]

In response to your question, skibumwa, I broke my toe tramping in the Kangarahape Gorge near Waihi. I slipped and the smashed my toe on a rock. Didn't realize I'd broken it till a week later.

It's ironic because I walk around barefoot all the time in NZ but I ended up injuring my foot while wearing shoes.

Anyway the treatment I got was better than in the states and it was cheap. But it never healed quite right and so it's quite stiff. They call it turf toe and even though it's a minor annoyance it counts as a pre-existing condition that severely raises insurance rates in the US. I don't tramp anymore, now I bike, just as fun I think.

[ellenmelon]

slight sidetrack..but has anyone seen michael moores (im of two minds about him but i enjoy watching his stuff )doco 'sicko'? its about the state of the health system in the US. very interesting and scary/sad too.

[swissmissdesigner]

Yeah, I saw the movie. Made tears in my eyes and felt quilty having a private insurance.I have to tell you I never had problem here in California with my insurnace..
I am "using and abusing" and got paid in full all my bills..(Blue Cross)

[tigerlily]

...The negative consequences of a small population size are something that I hadn't considered before I left the States. Having "not enough people" leads to a higher cost of goods......a lack of a robust counter-culture.

Yes, definately agree- small population and being far from everything (ie shipping long distances) makes goods more expensive. But I think there is some counter culture here. Perhaps more here in Welly than in Palmerston North though.

[ellenmelon]

Yeah, I saw the movie. Made tears in my eyes and felt quilty having a private insurance.I have to tell you I never had problem here in California with my insurnace..
I am "using and abusing" and got paid in full all my bills..(Blue Cross)

count yourself lucky eh? i dont know what id do if i had the extra worry of needing health insurance what with being a student on a low income you know? :(

[skibumwa]

You are welcome. I know what it's like to be in the USA and wanting a better life. Getting to NZ and your NZ PR is A LOT of work, but if you need any help/advice I'd be happy to help out!

Where in the States do you live? Hey your private message thing seems to be turned off..

Cheers!

John

Thanks Skibum for all of that great information.
Sorry for the rambling -I'm just so glad I've found a site that I can share information regarding moving/living working in NZ. I've been lost until now :D

[ellenmelon]

skibumwa: i dont think they have posted enough to have PMs activated..one more post from them should do it :)

[swissmissdesigner]

count yourself lucky eh? i dont know what id do if i had the extra worry of needing health insurance what with being a student on a low income you know? :(


I am an international student at UCLA. My PPO is US $100.- pro month.
I had a two sport injuries follow by two major surgery last year incl. all check up and everything was paid in full.. about $20,000.-:nice1

[daygloweyes]

You are welcome. I know what it's like to be in the USA and wanting a better life. Getting to NZ and your NZ PR is A LOT of work, but if you need any help/advice I'd be happy to help out!

Where in the States do you live? Hey your private message thing seems to be turned off..

Cheers!

John

Hi :)
I'm in Ohio at the mo and yes the waiting is driving me crazy haha - we're having the worst winter on record so am jealous of you folks enjoying the hot summer down under :)

I'm not sure how the pm on here works but my email is day_glow_eyes@hotmail.com

[Familyofmonkeys]

Hi :)
I'm in Ohio at the mo and yes the waiting is driving me crazy haha - we're having the worst winter on record so am jealous of you folks enjoying the hot summer down under :)

I'm not sure how the pm on here works but my email is day_glow_eyes@hotmail.com

It might be worth being a bit careful about posting personal details on an open forum.

[suzer]

I work with an American who has been here 6 months. She loves the holidays, thinks they are really generous, but is shocked daily by the prices of clothes, food, eating out etc etc. I think things must be much cheaper in the USA. She also dislikes what she sees as sloppy working practices.

I totally agree on that last sentence.

[daygloweyes]

It might be worth being a bit careful about posting personal details on an open forum.


It's just an email address (where I can easily block unwanted individuals if need be) not my ht/wt or social security number.

[suzer]

OTOH, I have to say, as much as I like NZ, it really doesn't compare to the States in many important ways. Wages. Discretionary income. Diversity. Standard of housing. Quality, availability and cost of goods. There are many, many benefits to living in the US that you do not appreciate until you are not there anymore!

Right on:clap

[tigerlily]

Can someone talk about what they mean by sloppy work practices? Just curious.

[suzer]

Can someone talk about what they mean by sloppy work practices? Just curious.

customer svc is just pretty crap. i could give you examples but that might violate my workplace privacy issues;)

[Ojai]

Can someone talk about what they mean by sloppy work practices? Just curious.

I have heard that a lot of people coming to NZ find their coworkers infuriating sometimes, due to slow work, poor work, and a lot of mediocrity. Has anyone experienced this themselves?

[reandfi!]

I currently live in the USA as well and don't get me wrong i love the prices of some things such as food and consumer products, but at the same time i have no life, all i do is work and goto school, and i goto school to make more money because maybe if i buy more things i'll be happy.In reality i would give up all these things just to be able to live somewhere that i will have a life that i can actually enjoy instead of living to work i'd like to work so that i can live.

[skibumwa]

This is so well put. Yeah in the States, I worked hard to get more stuff to supposably to be happier. That never worked for me so I moved to NZ.

I gave up the need for cable tv, having a new car every 4 years, stuff, stuff and more stuff that I really did not need. Now I value time spent with my partner, my friends and perusing my hobbies (mostly photography).

My life is far simpler now. I have a true balance in my life where I am actually physically and psychologically healthier!

As you say, I work to live, not the opposite. Cheers!



I currently live in the USA as well and don't get me wrong i love the prices of some things such as food and consumer products, but at the same time i have no life, all i do is work and goto school, and i goto school to make more money because maybe if i buy more things i'll be happy.In reality i would give up all these things just to be able to live somewhere that i will have a life that i can actually enjoy instead of living to work i'd like to work so that i can live.

[Ojai]

This is so well put. Yeah in the States, I worked hard to get more stuff to supposably to be happier. That never worked for me so I moved to NZ.

I gave up the need for cable tv, having a new car every 4 years, stuff, stuff and more stuff that I really did not need. Now I value time spent with my partner, my friends and perusing my hobbies (mostly photography).

My life is far simpler now. I have a true balance in my life where I am actually physically and psychologically healthier!

As you say, I work to live, not the opposite. Cheers!

These are the precise reasons we tell people when they ask us why we are doing this move. I almost always get blank looks. But I have done the "make a lot of money and have a lot of nice things" here in the States, and it's awful. I'm looking forward to a change of pace, as it only made me more and more unhappy.

[Sam B]

My take on sloppy working practices, in my own experience, is that my co-workers seem to complain a lot about the size of their caseloads, when they are actually one third the size of the caseload I had in the UK. They take a long time to see clients and operate unecessary waiting lists. Admin and record keeping is way below the standard in the UK, and is not audited. A lot of time is spent laughing at those awful unfunny circular emails, when I would rather just get on with the work and get home. Still, they're lovely people, and I've generalised as they're not all like that, and work/life balance is great.

I just do things my way, and I'm happy.

[sweetpea]

I currently live in the USA as well and don't get me wrong i love the prices of some things such as food and consumer products, but at the same time i have no life, all i do is work and goto school, and i goto school to make more money because maybe if i buy more things i'll be happy.In reality i would give up all these things just to be able to live somewhere that i will have a life that i can actually enjoy instead of living to work i'd like to work so that i can live.

Why can't you do that in the US?

[CJ22]

I have heard that a lot of people coming to NZ find their coworkers infuriating sometimes, due to slow work, poor work, and a lot of mediocrity. Has anyone experienced this themselves?

Great, I'll fit right in!

[dilanium]

Why can't you do that in the US?

While not the original poster I will say that I have been all over the country and all the places that I would consider living for the long term are either in the process of being "updated" or have no job market to speak of.

I'm not happy here, I see a twisted type of reality where ever I look and I'm sick of it. (At least in most of the places I've lived (NY, NV, OH, CA (north and south)). People base their lives around the corporations. They wear what the corporations say they should wear, they eat where the corporations say they should eat, and they have fun in the way that the corporations say they should.

I'm a huge fan of going into nature to have fun, but even that has been altered to the point that you're on a concrete path with wooden fences on each side. I mean- I understand that to maintain the plant life you need to keep people to the path- but it seems so fake. In fact most of the parks that I visit have been planted in a may to look interesting instead of just letting the plants grow.

I'm looking for somewhere that I can go out and live my life without a concern as to the corporations and what they are trying to tell me to do. I'd prefer to live near a lot of natural scenery that I can explore. I'd also prefer to live somewhere that people don't feel that they are entitled to get their way all the time, and that they are always right and you are always wrong (while spending themselves into debt on their credit cards).

I know NZ is not perfect. I know that no where is perfect. I would just like to give it a go. If I find I really like the US better I can go back (nice thing about a US accredited program).

I would also like to say that this is not the entire reason I'm going and that there are many other factors playing into this. This is just the main reason at the moment (well that and the 9" of snow being dumped on my house) :) .

[Wahlet]

Like a recent poster, I have to say that I'm actually giving up a lot to leave the US for NZ. Here are a few:

-I am self employed and work an average of about 10 hours a week, from home, by contract. I can set my own hours and work in the wee hours of the night if I want to. I will be working a corporate 40 hour week in NZ.
-Because my wife and I live frugally, we can live on that modest income and fall into a low tax bracket. We will be paying about twice this tax rate in NZ.
-Due to my work arrangement, I can arrange for unlimited time off. Last year we took a leisurely 6 week driving tour of the States. Altogether in 2007 we spent at least two or three months of "vacation." In NZ I will have 4 weeks per year (which, combined with the more numerous NZ holidays, is, admittedly, much better than my allotment of 2 weeks accruing in a previous corporate job).
-We have a healthy lifestyle, and have opted out of health insurance plans. This saves us about $3000 a year and frees me from the obligation to work the hours necessary to cover that expense. Today we visited the doctor for our physical exams for NZ residence application, and because we don't have insurance, the clinic gave us a 20% discount for paying cash in full. Fortunately in the US there is still freedom to opt out of medical coverage. In NZ we will be paying for everyone else's hospital stays, with no choice.
-We keep a sizeable garden near our rental house that supplies a small portion of our food supply. We may not have that in NZ. We also have access to the notoriously cheap American food supply. NZ is quite different.

The above items are financial, so it should be apparent to you that we are not moving to NZ to seek our fortunes. I have run some numbers and found that due to our frugal lifestyle, we can get by and even save a little each month in NZ. We are going to try living without a car, maybe indefinitely, and that will cut costs considerably. Thanks to Wellington's compactness, this is feasible, and besides, I'll be sitting at a desk so much, a long walk to work will be a good warm-up and cool-down for the day!

Last I heard, the amount of time that Americans work to earn money to pay for food is the lowest in the world. Our food is subsidized and industrialized. This leads to people becoming detached from the land, and the quality of the food declining. (Only "civilized" nations spray their food with poisons - how bizarre.) I am actually looking forward to paying more for my food, and being "forced" financially to consider growing some of my own.

Some of the reasons we are moving to NZ:
-The adventure of it. We would regret it if we had not done this when we had the chance, in our youth.
-NZ is a "young" land. People have had less time to spoil it. I expect that we will have a chance to participate in its preservation and wise use. On an island (islands) there is less opportunity to invisibly "rape" remote corners for the benefit of an absentee nameless corporate entity, like we see here in the US with mountaintops being leveled to remove a relatively small amount of coal in poor Appalachian backcountry, and the Bush administration's threat to invade the Alaskan wildlife refuge to provide only enough oil to feed our ravenous appetites for a few more months. Not that greed doesn't exist in NZ (every so-called civilized nation seems to be imitating North America's "advanced ways"), but because there is so little land, people are aware of the effect that its destruction will have on themselves.
-We have met a few Kiwis, and heard more about the Kiwi people, and feel a kinship with them.
-Though we are not super-outdoorsy people, we are excited about exploring a land where so much beauty is packed into such a small space.

And last but not least:
-Sometimes it just seems natural to do something...as if you don't even have to have a reason, it is just "the next step."

A side benefit of this move is that perhaps we will escape the collapse of the world's largest empire. We shall see. But this is not a main decider.

That's all I can think of for now. As we get closer to jumping the pond, I am understanding it more. Thankfully, I didn't have it all figured out when we made the decision to go for it. :)

[akp713]

Hello Wahlet, wow I am impressed by your sense of adventure, it sounds like you are giving up a pretty nice living situation in the states to come here. I just hope you aren't a bit disappointed since your main reason for coming here is NZ's 'clean and green' reputation.

I love NZ, and Kiwis are wonderful people but the whole clean and green thing is a bit overstated. They are actually quite bad polluters and wasters, probably worse than Americans. The reason the country remains so breathtakingly beautiful is the lack of people and abundance of land. NZ has no emmissions tests for their cars at all, they use horribly pollutant trucks and buses that would have been banned years ago in the US and they have a vibrant logging industry that is great at clear-cutting the side of a small mountain in no time flat. Auckland has a smog problem whenever the sea breezes let up, which is luckily a rare event. And they do love their "poisons" as you put it, they are an industrialized agriculture country with a powerful farm lobby.

There are many, many benefits to living in NZ but many of the people I've met here who moved to NZ for the cleaner living and less corporate raping of the land were quite disappointed. Hopefully you'll have a different experience. I'm sure you've heard some of these things before and you're still coming so good on you for that.

[Wahlet]

Hi akp713,
I always welcome counter-perspectives; thanks for yours. I hadn't heard of some of the things you shared. Having not yet visited NZ and observed "the whole story" (does one ever get the whole story? :), my perspective is inevitably a bit dreamy, as much as I try to temper it. I think we agree that the greed and wastefulness of people is generally the same in both the US and NZ (and in fact most "first world countries"), but perhaps my thought is better stated as that I feel there is more opportunity in NZ for me to seek the lifestyle and "be the change that I want to see", than there is in America. There is so much momentum in this country. In the wrong direction, I believe. And fast.

Another thought: as the world continues to change due to oil and politics, it seems to me that NZ is in a better position to cope, having a manageable size, and (partly for that reason) having avoided gaining a bad reputation for itself through aggressive actions. I appreciate nations that have limited their military presence and have made tough choices to limit their involvement with the "big players" (as I understand NZ has, most notably through their refusal to allow US nuclear powered or armed ships into their ports and thereby losing the protection of the US through the ANZUS treaty). I'd welcome anyone's thoughts on this. Again, there may be some dreaminess in my thinking.

But despite all this, the main reason we are going is for the adventure. We will never find the perfect place to live, NZ is no exception, and we are ready to accept the surprises that come our way, for the sake of the experience. Like so many of you on this forum. Cheers for EmigrateNZ!

[Sam B]

Great, I'll fit right in!


Ha ha, this really made me laugh!

[reandfi!]

Dear sweetpea, the reason that i can't obtain the lifestyle i want in the US is because i don't have the time, i work and goto school. I have very little time for myself or my wife, thus why a drastic lifestyle change is needed and i think that nz is going to be my eden.

[reandfi!]

sry double posted!

[ncalfamilyguy]

I see some posts about people wondering just what the price for goods diff. are between NZ and US I am currently in northern CA (US), but my wife and I are seriuosly considering the move to NZ for what I must say is all the reasons seen here in this forum. I would be happy to exchange some rough estimates for those who are curious on what I would pay here for any given example. On a side note has anyone ever thought of starting an import business?

[phatsharpie]

For those interested, you can look at prices for Woolworths (supermarket) on line to do some basic price comparison:
http://www.woolworths.co.nz/HomeShopping/Browse.aspx

-B

[akp713]

The online woolworths/Foodtown sites are great but keep in mind Pak N Save and Countdown are a lot cheaper sometimes and things like fruit and veggies are cheaper at fruit shops. I used the online store to try and see what my weekly budget would be and have discovered I actually spend a good bit less than expected.

However, dairy products can be ridiculously expensive, grated parmesan cheese is 4x more expensive in NZ than in the US.

[ldlim]

I took this weeks grocery list and did an online equivalent at Woolworths. With the exception for body wash and diapers (nappies) I would have spent just about the same. We already agreed that we aren't moving until the youngest is potty trained.

Keeping in mind I live near a major city so our cost of living is already pretty high.

[sillyskuld]

On my recce trip I noticed that food especially was almost the same price, if you converted US dollars into NZ dollars, anyway. However, I still think that it is actually a lot more expensive because the salaries are a lot lower. Cost of living, rather than cost. At least for myself, I’ll be taking a pretty huge pay cut, when I eventually start work in NZ. You’ll have an advantage at first, bringing over USD and savings, but quickly, you’ll need to depend on your NZ wage exclusively.

Regardless, the general trend I noticed was that services were cheaper, and small consumer goods were a LOT more expensive.

For example, $30 NZD for a fancy salon haircut, rather than $60USD. $17NZD for a paperback book (!!!!), rather than $8 USD.

Most people don’t have such a nice setup as Wahlet. I count myself lucky with three weeks of vacation; however, I work for one of those lovely employers that doesn’t like you to take it. Yes, I’m entitled to it, but they try their hardest to make it impossible to take. Lots of vacation blackouts, sudden emergencies, constant desk coverage issues. Those that take vacation, or sick time, must be slackers who like stiffing their employer *eyeroll* Just trying to take a few days at Christmas is always a struggle.

And I work in an office, not retail. They are just jerks because they can. Meh.

[Lulu77]

I am not from US or UK, but in answer to your question. Yes, the cost of living is high, but you are paying for a lifestyle. Very little traffic jams (Wellington), laid back & relaxed living! The lifestyle outweighs the money contraint. Most kiwi's are so helpful, generous & kind. I am the most relaxed I've ever been in my life. NZ is beautifull and we love it here.

[constablechuck]

My wife and I have been in Christchurch for going on 15 months and were much happier here than we were in the U.S.

The few things that we don't like are the cost of fuel and housing, the extreme political correctness, "she'll be right attitude" and soft approach to crime can also be a bit frustrating at times, however the positives far out weigh the negatives for us.

Employers here seem more friendly and reasonable, I worked for the government in the U.S. and I also work for the government in NZ so I can only speak about the state sector, here in NZ I can have a friendly debate with my supervisor and at times even agree to disagree without any reprecussions, in the U.S. you would likely be told it's our way or the highway full stop...., in my line of work I get a reasonable salary very similar to what I would get in the U.S., probably better when you consider the amount of sick time and annual leave I get in NZ.

The health care system has been good to us, my wife is going on 9 months pregnant and has been well looked after here in NZ, the trips to the doctors and cost of prescriptions have also been very reasonable.

I think the ACC system is great, car insurance only relates to property damage so there are no crazy personal injury settlements to drive up insurance costs, and since car insurance is not compulsary here the insurance companies can't get away with charging outrageous premiums, I pay less than $300 NZD a year for full coverage :)

The cheap Japanese imports provide reliable cars at affordable prices, this may change in the future but for now buying a car in NZ is very affordable.

We have found the people and the places here in NZ to very nice with the exception of the occassional bad experience you will find no matter where you go.

[Wahlet]

Great info, Chuck. Could I ask: what do you mean by "she'll be right attitude" ?

[phatsharpie]

Essentially "don't worry about it". I think of it as laid-backness to the point of inaction.

-B