BlueDevil
3rd March 2008, 08:26 PM
Hi,
This community and the board was quite helpful when we were moving here and I wanted to offer a few thoughts in return.
But first, a really interesting article that I thought was spot on:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4423779a1861.html
"The luxury of 1kg of Tasty cheese"
And just as interesting, the replies:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4424012a4621.html
Now, FWIW:
I've been here a month. My wife and son will follow in 2 months. We came because my wife's entire research group is moving from a university in the US, to Auckland University. She is a PhD student. I am a doctor in post-graduate training.
1st section is re: immigration, second is a month in NZ.
It wasn't a cinch in terms of immigration; we both have advanced degrees, but neither of us are established, fully certified professionals. However it was good enough and I found Immigration NZ absolutely wonderful (my frame of reference is the US Immigration, so....)
This board helped a lot, almost all of the questions I had re PR had been answered. The two that weren't were specific to our situation so I called Immigration NZ in Auckland on Skype (7cents/min) and ... they answered the phone, were very polite and pleasant.
8 months later, my passport is off to London (even though I am in NZ, that is where my file is, to get my PR visa). I entered last month on a work permit that the NZ embassy in Washington DC did and turned around in 1 day. Note for Americans that PR applications (at least for the E coast) are done in London, while the Washington DC or California offices can do non-residency visas.
FBI checks were not too bad, we noted "please expedite for visas" on them. Health checks were a pain, but not horrible. Documentation official copies were a nightmare. My recommendation: Be Organized. Even with careful checklists, one last 2 person review before sending in our ITA showed we needed a second trip to the notary.
MISTAKE #1
Re: the notary; the first person we went to said she can't notarize that it is an official copy, only our signatures. AND we read a post here by a US lawyer that said she wrote out an affadavit that the documents were genuine and then notarized them. We tried this and the London INZ case manager said no way; notarized copies or originals.
So we found another notary (a perk of working at a hospital) who notarized something like 27 document copies (between INZ and the Med Council of NZ) for us.
MISTAKE #2
I also did not send out printouts of the lab results from our health tests and had to fax and then send the originals (I had written them and my doc had signed them on the health reports).
Other than this, no problems.
_______________________
Living in NZ.
Its great. I'm obviously biased by a few things (I love my job here and where I live in Auckland). But I really like it.
We were here before in 1998 as backpackers/delayed honeymoon and we spoke about the idea that this was a great place to live - but not really thinking of living here.
Now that we are, it still has many of the same great qualities. I will say the economics are not great. The above articles are right on the money in my opinion; great cheap food which we saw in 1998 (admittedly with a very strong dollar and in the midst of the Asian economic flu of the time) is gone. Food here is more expensive than in North Carolina, although the same level of urban living in say NYC, Boston, DC or San Fran, would be more expensive in the US.
Seafood is surprisingly expensive, so is lamb and dairy. This is interesting to me as we lived on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year when my wife worked as a geologist there and it was hard going financially, but there was always something cheap to eat that was in season and seafood was cheap.
Electronics -generally very expensive, although a few things are not; Most things I shipped. Any cutting edge laptop or cell phone is outrageous. A blackberry curve was $250 US unlocked on ebay; its $999 NZ here in NZ.
Cell phone service is not only insanely expensive (comparing to the US) but also hard to set up; In the US, you walk in with a credit card and bingo. Here, they refused to give me an account plan (my work permit was for 4 months, the term of my first "run" (assignment) at the hospital); I hadn't thought it would matter with PR coming. Then we negotiated a plan (you can't get some services on prepay) and they had to send it away for approval!!!
Internet service - extremely expensive and somewhat slow.
Cars, expensive, somewhat behind the times. Huge used care market. The SUV arms race (larger and larger) is occuring here in Auckland, about 10 years behind the US. Auckland is sometimes a tight city so small cars are much more practical (I bought a cheerful bright red ford focus, something I would NEVER have purchased in the US).
Taxes are 30%!!! Car insurance for a couple in their 30s on a Focus worth about 12000 is $500-700/ year. Health insurance is a lot cheaper (paid for by taxes).
Savings rates are 7%, but loan rates for credit card are usury compared to the US right now.
Very green and eco-friendly (no paper towels in the grocery store that I have seen) but the hospital in NZ does not recycle (my US hospital did).
Health care is quite good. My friends in the US ask about the restricted formulary; there are some things I miss, but I think its generally ok. I would not want to get a few types of cancer here (a number of advanced treatments in the US are not available). The care is more multidisciplinary and integrated than the US is. I don't have to beg/borrow/steal to get basic health care for my patients here. There are many more community resources available. They are less liability driven and they are sparing about some resources (like MRIs, expensive lab tests); we probably miss a few diagnoses that they would catch in the US; BUT they also avoid finding a lot of random things that lead to unnecessary procedures and operations in the US, and as a society (as well as for my individual patients) is care that is acceptable (good enough for me, my wife and my son) but is not going to bankrupt the nation (unlike the US if we don't do something soon).
Auckland shops shut down really early (5:30 -6p). While it sometimes drives me crazy, I think it also contributes to make it a more livable place. Most stores are closed on public holidays; thats ok because it means the retail workers get the day off and get to eat with their families.
Its really a beautiful land. The architecture is not; it sort of reminds me of Iceland in its practicality. Frank Lloyd Wright would weep in terms of architecture and nature and lost opportunities here. But it only lends to the charm.
So, thats it.
Best wishes to all; I don't think NZ is the promised land, or a better place for everyone, but if you understand (as best as any of us can anticipate) the differences for better and worse - and if they fit your style and values, then it can be a great place.
This community and the board was quite helpful when we were moving here and I wanted to offer a few thoughts in return.
But first, a really interesting article that I thought was spot on:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4423779a1861.html
"The luxury of 1kg of Tasty cheese"
And just as interesting, the replies:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4424012a4621.html
Now, FWIW:
I've been here a month. My wife and son will follow in 2 months. We came because my wife's entire research group is moving from a university in the US, to Auckland University. She is a PhD student. I am a doctor in post-graduate training.
1st section is re: immigration, second is a month in NZ.
It wasn't a cinch in terms of immigration; we both have advanced degrees, but neither of us are established, fully certified professionals. However it was good enough and I found Immigration NZ absolutely wonderful (my frame of reference is the US Immigration, so....)
This board helped a lot, almost all of the questions I had re PR had been answered. The two that weren't were specific to our situation so I called Immigration NZ in Auckland on Skype (7cents/min) and ... they answered the phone, were very polite and pleasant.
8 months later, my passport is off to London (even though I am in NZ, that is where my file is, to get my PR visa). I entered last month on a work permit that the NZ embassy in Washington DC did and turned around in 1 day. Note for Americans that PR applications (at least for the E coast) are done in London, while the Washington DC or California offices can do non-residency visas.
FBI checks were not too bad, we noted "please expedite for visas" on them. Health checks were a pain, but not horrible. Documentation official copies were a nightmare. My recommendation: Be Organized. Even with careful checklists, one last 2 person review before sending in our ITA showed we needed a second trip to the notary.
MISTAKE #1
Re: the notary; the first person we went to said she can't notarize that it is an official copy, only our signatures. AND we read a post here by a US lawyer that said she wrote out an affadavit that the documents were genuine and then notarized them. We tried this and the London INZ case manager said no way; notarized copies or originals.
So we found another notary (a perk of working at a hospital) who notarized something like 27 document copies (between INZ and the Med Council of NZ) for us.
MISTAKE #2
I also did not send out printouts of the lab results from our health tests and had to fax and then send the originals (I had written them and my doc had signed them on the health reports).
Other than this, no problems.
_______________________
Living in NZ.
Its great. I'm obviously biased by a few things (I love my job here and where I live in Auckland). But I really like it.
We were here before in 1998 as backpackers/delayed honeymoon and we spoke about the idea that this was a great place to live - but not really thinking of living here.
Now that we are, it still has many of the same great qualities. I will say the economics are not great. The above articles are right on the money in my opinion; great cheap food which we saw in 1998 (admittedly with a very strong dollar and in the midst of the Asian economic flu of the time) is gone. Food here is more expensive than in North Carolina, although the same level of urban living in say NYC, Boston, DC or San Fran, would be more expensive in the US.
Seafood is surprisingly expensive, so is lamb and dairy. This is interesting to me as we lived on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year when my wife worked as a geologist there and it was hard going financially, but there was always something cheap to eat that was in season and seafood was cheap.
Electronics -generally very expensive, although a few things are not; Most things I shipped. Any cutting edge laptop or cell phone is outrageous. A blackberry curve was $250 US unlocked on ebay; its $999 NZ here in NZ.
Cell phone service is not only insanely expensive (comparing to the US) but also hard to set up; In the US, you walk in with a credit card and bingo. Here, they refused to give me an account plan (my work permit was for 4 months, the term of my first "run" (assignment) at the hospital); I hadn't thought it would matter with PR coming. Then we negotiated a plan (you can't get some services on prepay) and they had to send it away for approval!!!
Internet service - extremely expensive and somewhat slow.
Cars, expensive, somewhat behind the times. Huge used care market. The SUV arms race (larger and larger) is occuring here in Auckland, about 10 years behind the US. Auckland is sometimes a tight city so small cars are much more practical (I bought a cheerful bright red ford focus, something I would NEVER have purchased in the US).
Taxes are 30%!!! Car insurance for a couple in their 30s on a Focus worth about 12000 is $500-700/ year. Health insurance is a lot cheaper (paid for by taxes).
Savings rates are 7%, but loan rates for credit card are usury compared to the US right now.
Very green and eco-friendly (no paper towels in the grocery store that I have seen) but the hospital in NZ does not recycle (my US hospital did).
Health care is quite good. My friends in the US ask about the restricted formulary; there are some things I miss, but I think its generally ok. I would not want to get a few types of cancer here (a number of advanced treatments in the US are not available). The care is more multidisciplinary and integrated than the US is. I don't have to beg/borrow/steal to get basic health care for my patients here. There are many more community resources available. They are less liability driven and they are sparing about some resources (like MRIs, expensive lab tests); we probably miss a few diagnoses that they would catch in the US; BUT they also avoid finding a lot of random things that lead to unnecessary procedures and operations in the US, and as a society (as well as for my individual patients) is care that is acceptable (good enough for me, my wife and my son) but is not going to bankrupt the nation (unlike the US if we don't do something soon).
Auckland shops shut down really early (5:30 -6p). While it sometimes drives me crazy, I think it also contributes to make it a more livable place. Most stores are closed on public holidays; thats ok because it means the retail workers get the day off and get to eat with their families.
Its really a beautiful land. The architecture is not; it sort of reminds me of Iceland in its practicality. Frank Lloyd Wright would weep in terms of architecture and nature and lost opportunities here. But it only lends to the charm.
So, thats it.
Best wishes to all; I don't think NZ is the promised land, or a better place for everyone, but if you understand (as best as any of us can anticipate) the differences for better and worse - and if they fit your style and values, then it can be a great place.