[suebeenz]

It's been a fantastic warm and dry summer! Well, unless you're a farmer, who of course substitute the word ‘fantastic’ with ‘miserable’. I can remember just how cold I was last winter though.

The worst thing for me last winter, was that damp cold. The floors were ice, and the carpets felt slightly damp to me. I theorized that some of that might be creeping up from the floor which prompted me to install 2 layers of Expol underfloor insulation, instead of that silly foil drooped between joists. By the way, it was cheaper for me to do 2 layers of Expol, instead of a single layer of Cozy Floors, and I still come out ahead on the R value.

Later I talked to a builder, and he assured me that no way, was any moisture coming up from the floor, even before putting in insulation. So, on with my quest looking for additional sources of heat-loss and moisture-gain. My ceiling and walls are properly insulated, so can’t do much else there. Upon closer inspection of doors and windows (using a flashlight at night, to see where light leaks in/out), I noticed that I wasn’t getting a good seal on any of them. So some additional weatherstripping and/or replacing is in order there.

Another potential source of cold/moisture (I think) is the gas fireplace. Perhaps my imagination, but whether the fireplace is on or off, when I put the dehumidifier next to fp, it always seems to fill with water more quickly. My fireplace does not have a damper, which I would of course like to close when I’m not using it. I called some fireplace specialists and they were completely beside themselves why I would want a damper. Does anybody have experience with getting one installed in their gas fireplace? I’m not willing to climb the roof and put a bucket over the chimney when I’m not using it. ☺ (as was suggested by one of the ‘professional’ installers I spoke with)

Despite the builder’s comment of ‘no way is moisture coming from the floor’, something else I’m wondering about is putting a vapour barrier on the dirt below the house. The house is about 1 meter off the ground, and has slatted wood around the perimeter to allow the house to breath. Does that sound too breathable, for a ground-vapour barrier to make any difference? I’ve heard conflicting POVs on this.

I’m planning on getting a heat pump as well, and toying with the idea of double glaze windows, but can only tackle one big project at a time.

Does anybody else have some big success stories/tips about improving the efficiency of their homes?

Be cool, stay warm!

Ps: there is always this, which I’m surprised they don’t sell here in NZ yet

http://www.lippiselkbag.co.uk/store.cfm?deptid=50

[willsken]

Ps: there is always this, which I’m surprised they don’t sell here in NZ yet

http://www.lippiselkbag.co.uk/store.cfm?deptid=50



I may just have to get one!! :laugh

[jackie m]

I like the dark green one. Would look like a caterpillar :laugh but hey if they keep you warm.

Jackie

[Bruckner]

We're in a rental which is on the market so there's not much we can do to prepare it structurally for the winter. Instead I'm going to order insulated curtains, flannel sheets, portable heaters, a dehumidifier and also arrange for a wood delivery. Of course, this is only after we sign a long term lease which I think may happen because I don't see this house selling in this current market.

Oh yes, I must get a good pair of slippers because the two pairs of socks I wore last winter just didn't cut it.

Emily

[CJ22]

God, what kind of a nightmare gulag are we moving to? Is nobody able to keep warm in winter in a country that's on the equivalent latitude as southern Spain???

Intersting bit of trivia: Auckland is on the exact opposite side of the world as Ronda on the south coast of Spain, which is whe the mother-in-law lives. So we are officially moving as far from the mother-in-law as it's possible to get without going into space ;)

[gina]

I agree with CJ22. It's really quite scary hearing what everyone has to say about the cold, although it was very refreshing to read suebeenz's 'tackle it head on' approach. In our last two houses we changed the heating from gas hot air to radiators. Is that the same as the gas ducted heating referred to in some posts?

[clg]

I think one of the major sources of damp is houses warming up and then cooling down, causing condensation which then accumulates. If a house is kept warm all winter (central heat) it tends to stay quite dry. I have noticed in our house in autumn when we run the heat some but not that much it tends to be a bit damp (though no mold grows) but that as it gets colder, we run the heat more and the house seems much drier.

As to a few tips, sealing windows and doors well can really make an amazing difference, we did this after our first winter and I was really quite surprised what it did, I don't think it is just in my head as the house heats up faster and our heating bill dropped.

DVS systems work really well, our neighbour had one installed and it has made a really big difference to them, they heat with a wood burner. A wood burner or pellet fire really put out a lot of heat and are quite affordable to run.

Insulated drapes help a lot. I read somewhere they they are about the same as double glazing from a heat loss standpoint but they cost FAR less. So for us, unless we were to build new or replace windows for some other reason it is far more cost effective to just use the drapes.

Order wood now, it is very hard to get dry wood in winter and it is barely worth burning when it is wet. We learned that the hard way!

Closing the flu on the fire when it is not in use seems to help, I could feel cold air coming in on ours when it was wide open.

It is quite possible to be warm and comfortable here in winter, but that will be very hard if you are in an old house with no insulation and no source of heat other than plug in heaters that are expensive to run.

[willsken]

It is quite possible to be warm and comfortable here in winter, but that will be very hard if you are in an old house with no insulation and no source of heat other than plug in heaters that are expensive to run.

This is what it comes down to. We will be perfectly warm this winter after finding all the cold bits in our house last year. It's well insulated and we also installed a very large wood burner. We also have the thermal curtains and they do make a huge difference.

At the end of the day winter here is very short compared to the UK. We may have cold nights and mornings but the winter sunshine in the day time more than makes up for not having double glazing and central heating. That being said when we self build in a couple of years we will put both into the house. :D

[suebeenz]

Yup, don't mean to scares folks off. The cold is a fixable problem, just a matter of how much time and money to put into it. After realizing what my comfort was worth, I decided not to worry about trying to recoup costs when I sell. I doubt Kiwis would care about extra insulation and efficient heating when giving offers on houses, but who wants another bad winter. As you said Gina, tackle it head on!

I was glad to read that weatherstripping (cheap!) made a big difference for clg. And good to hear that I'm not the only one that thinks dampers on fireplaces make sense. Now just need to find someone that can install one ...

Anybody with experience with 'vapour barriers' on the dirt below the house?

@Gina. My definition of gas ducted central heating would mean having one gas 'furnace', with ducting from that to all rooms in the house, along with returns where air is sucked back in. Is that what you had, before switching to radiators? Did your bills go down? (i wouldn't guess so) Seems like the preferred heating mechanism are heat pumps, but have read on here that some people hate them.

@CJ22. Nice one!


Btw, I found this snip from a book that talks about efficient windows and doors, as well as weatherstripping. Thought it was interesting (but can i afford new windows ....) .

http://srmi.biz/PDF/REChaptfive.pdf

[bob_the_engineer]

Hi Suebeenz,

Honestly I think you’ll find a damper makes little difference for damp, but great for stopping draughts. I know how you feel because I’ve had the same problem as you, in two different houses I owned, and its no joke!

I fixed it on both occasions, but the causes were different.

A few points to note:

Vapour will come up from the ground under your house, and enough of it WILL make your house damp. Funny isn’t it that a builder will tell you that this cant happen in one breath, then in another tell you that the underside of the house must have air circulating to breath!

Oh I too have Expol and it won’t cure the problem.

Regarding vapour barriers, don’t do it! if you get the ground too dry you could effect the stability of your house. It’s a balancing act, too much water and the ground turns to mud, to little water and it turns to dust. The only time I’d consider a vapour barrier is if my house was built on a bog.

Well here is my story.

The first one was caused because someone had decided to simply bury a pipe right next to the house and empty the rainwater from the roof into it. A sort of primitive soak away, that was positioned far too close the house.
This wasn’t easy to find, desperation while trying to figure out why damp air was coming up from under the house made me get my spade and go in search of a leaking drain! Easily fixed, $80 for some flexi drainage pipe, and I ran the water off down the drive and into the storm drain.

The second one was also difficult to spot too, a leaking gutter (spouting) was dropping just enough water to breach an air vent and stream water under the house, for such a little problem the effect was drastic (and that’s with expol insulation). The house began to smell and the damp air was awful. Easily fixed and a few weeks later, with a dehumidifier, no problem.

To my mind you probably have water running under the house or into the ground nearby.
You said your house is raised, does that mean it’s on a hill? If so make sure water is running around the house, rather than under it.
One thing to bear in mind is NZ law dictates that you can’t put clean water into the sewage system (great idea) but I’ve seen this result in some well dodge methods of draining the rainwater from your roof.

Drainage is simple (we all know water runs down), but the effects of getting it wrong are dire!

Good luck with it and do let us know how you get on.

Bob :)

[mossum]

my electricity account is $700 in credit already !:laugh

sad but true ...

vic

[shakyle2906]

I may just have to get one!! :laugh



I just cant get that link to work................wondering now what youre all talking about.........any offers ??

Sharon
x

[Familyofmonkeys]

Is nobody able to keep warm in winter in a country that's on the equivalent latitude as southern Spain???



NZ has an ocean buffer all around it.....so it will never been as warm and dry as Spain.

[suebeenz]

Bob, thanks for the words of encouragement and your story. I will double check to see how it looks. But your post already has prompted my cleaning of the gutters. :-)

@ shakyle2906, wondering what the fuss is with that link?

Try this one instead:
http://www.lazyboneuk.com/store/pro750.html

Anybody coming over from uk, bring a shipping container full - you'll make a fortune!

[gina]

Suebeenz, the gas heating we had was hot air heating. We changed it in two houses we lived in because we couldn't get on with it. We had vents in each room which blasted out hot air - then when set temperature was reached it stopped. The ducting ran through loft and under floorboards and we always seemed to have a draft through vents when the heating went off. Everywhere cooled down really quickly as well. Bills were much cheaper when we changed to rads and also having four kids I had somewhere to drape my washing. Bliss. I'm quite relieved we talking about different heating methods!

[Belmont Babes]

I am seriously considering getting one of those suits!

[suebeenz]

Hi Gina,

I'm surprised to hear your experience about gas central heat. Here's a gas system that's sold in new zealand:
http://www.bonaire.com.au/GasHeating/ProductRange/DuctedGasHeating.aspx

I still haven't decided on what sort of heating to put in. I do like the idea of forced air though, to also help with moisture. Sounds like on the NI especially, heat pumps seem well suited to the climate. I just think they are too big and ugly. I could do vented heat pump instead, but hoping to talk to someone that has that setup first. If I were to run ducting under the house, wondering how much efficiency would be lost. Of course the heating specialists say none. DNA matching results still pending, but I think the car salesman and heating specialist are much more closely related than first thought!

@mossum - I'm jealous! How did you manage that?
@belmont babes - just ask for the enz discount ;-)

[suebeenz]

Hi Bob,

I did some more reading online, and found more warnings about making under your house too dry.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/21/HOG2BP9TEJ1.DTL&feed=rss.bburnett

On the other hand, I've read some insulation install guides that actually recommend installing the ground vapour barriers.

"Note: Eco Insulation recommends that a plastic ground cover be installed ..."

from: http://www.ecoinsulation.co.nz/catalogues/EcoThermInstallationGuide.pdf


But as you pointed out, if I get it wrong, sounds like consequences could be dire. I am on a hill, and have a huge retaining wall on the step side of the house. To make matters worse, I do have a pond on the downhill side. Hmmm.

[suebeenz]

Quick update, was told that for gas fireplaces in NZ, essentially not legal to put in damper for fire safety reasons. Wood fireplaces are ok, because the smoke filling the room would make it immediately obvious that damper needs to be opened after lighting fire.

Said in order to be legal, would have to disconnect gas line. Hmmm.

[Livi]

Just been reading this thread with interest.
We are in the first stages of getting to live in NZ.
Are all places/locations in NZ as damp and cold as this in the winter? We get it very damp at the moment in Cornwall, and have crap heating! Are we to expect this everywhere in NZ?

[Janey]

Hi Liv and Dave
where in Cornwall are you and whre are you headed we live in a hamlet between Launceston and Liskeard, its windy and it rains 5 out of 7 days usually over the weekend! can't wait to get to Welly! we have just ordered the 2nd lot of oil in 6 weeks I am too much of a scrooge to fill right up just incase we move shortly have now run out of logs but I keep telling myself this is good training for New Zealand, and we have better weather than them up the line!!! no sight of snow, floods etc just green gren hills and MUD!

[Livi]

We live in Pendeen. It's so exposed!! Windy all the time!!! And damp!!!

We can't wait to get away!! :exit

[Jo Jo]

suebeenz - have you seen chimney balloons? http://www.chimneyballoons.co.nz/

[Potato]

Just been reading this thread with interest.
We are in the first stages of getting to live in NZ.
Are all places/locations in NZ as damp and cold as this in the winter? We get it very damp at the moment in Cornwall, and have crap heating! Are we to expect this everywhere in NZ?

Depends on the place.
I once spent a wintry few days in the Catlins in April. Temperature wise, it was nothing unusual for Britain in winter (but would be unusual for the UK in October). Indoors, however, it was absolutely freezing. I spent a whole day huddled around a plug-in heater. When I got up the next day for a shower, it was sheer torment. Bathrooms are often unheated. Yikes.

I have also spent a very mild winter in the Nelson area. Very sunny, very frosty, very cold at night. Fairly unpleasant but I got used to it, and the warm days made up for it.

In order to really escape the cold, you'd have to go to Northland, they don't get genuine cold, but it is very damp. Having never spent a winter there, I can't say what it's like.

One positive to note is that NZ is more susceptible to cold "snaps" rather than cold "spells". That is, you are highly unlikely to get the sort of God-forsaken fortnight of incessant cold and cloud that plagued the UK in December 2007 (being in Cornwall, you may have been spared, but be assured that sort of thing never happens in NZ cities- only in Central Otago and the like).
Basically this means that when the cold snap is finished, you will really feel the warm up :)

If you live inland, humidity obviously will be lower but it will be colder.

If you live on the east coast, you may be susceptible to Nor'Wester winds. These are quite handy because they are both warm *and* dry (even in winter) with humidity falling to below 30% and temperature tickling the high teens/low twenties on occassion.

[kanatakiwi]

The worst thing for me last winter, was that damp cold. The floors were ice, and the carpets felt slightly damp to me. I theorized that some of that might be creeping up from the floor which prompted me to install 2 layers of Expol underfloor insulation, instead of that silly foil drooped between joists. By the way, it was cheaper for me to do 2 layers of Expol, instead of a single layer of Cozy Floors, and I still come out ahead on the R value.

Despite the builder’s comment of ‘no way is moisture coming from the floor’, something else I’m wondering about is putting a vapour barrier on the dirt below the house. The house is about 1 meter off the ground, and has slatted wood around the perimeter to allow the house to breath. Does that sound too breathable, for a ground-vapour barrier to make any difference? I’ve heard conflicting POVs on this.

I’m planning on getting a heat pump as well, and toying with the idea of double glaze windows, but can only tackle one big project at a time.


]

So....what is Expol, and what is Cozy Floors. I've got a similar house to you, it sounds like, about a meter off the ground, with the silly drooping foil. How can that keep the heat in? and I have also been told to put plastic down on the ground to keep the moisture from rising. (Give me a damn basement, thats what I need!!)

Also re heat pumps, had a salesman in ,he said the pump would bring the heat from attic. duh, our attic sounds like a gale force wind is going through there for most of the winter, and you can see daylight all the way around where the roof meets the upstairs floor. I know houses need to "breathe" but this is ridiculous!

I weatherstripped the windows last year, but they are all aluminium and I hear they are the worst for leaking air.

give me the good old fashioned "storm windows" we put up every winter in Canada. Ok I know I am starting to rant now, but houses here are built like toy match box houses, no foundation, no insulation, no heating, etc etc etc.

[Sam B]

I moved from Cornwall to Cambridge in the Waikato, and the weather is MILES better here. No wind!! No drizzle! No mist! None of that never-ending rain that goes sideways. The winter seems short and cheerily sunny. The house is about as cold as our old stone cottage near Rose, but a lot less damp. I miss Cornwall, but I defo don't miss the weather.

[Janey]

One thing I am looking at is not paying for oil heating in October I topped the tank up 33p per ltre again in Feb 44p per litre as it has been really cold in the uk yep had to top up aganin last week now 55p per litre and the company say this has now gone up again! to put this into prespective when I bought the house 4 years ago it was 19p per litre I have a 1250 litre tank which is now costing 3 times as much to fill I have now said the heating is not going on again until October hopefully we will have moved by then, we have to get used to it for NZ I am fed up of lining the oil giants pockets!

[IanW99]

So....what is Expol, and what is Cozy Floors
....


ExPol is 'Expanded Polystyrene' that you fit under the floor.

See Expol Insulation (http://www.expol.co.nz/) for more details.

Ian

[kanatakiwi]

ExPol is 'Expanded Polystyrene' that you fit under the floor.

See Expol Insulation (http://www.expol.co.nz/) for more details.

Ian


thanks Ian, even looks like a DIY project!

[kanatakiwi]

Also worth checking out whether you qualify for government subsidy for insulation and clean heating options. (check out their website at www.eeca.govt.nz) Energy efficiency and conservation authority.

The ENERGYWISE™ funding will be available as either:

an interest subsidy, so homeowners can pay off over time the cost of energy efficiency improvements, and the government will pay the interest, up to a maximum of $1,250; or
a grant, of 10 percent of the cost of insulation and clean heat, up to a maximum of $500.
It’s available to homeowners earning less than $100,000 a year (1 or 2 earners) or $140,000 a year (3 or more earners), with homes built before 1 April 1978.

The packages provided by partners will differ from region to region, but will generally include:

an energy audit
insulation (ceiling, under-floor, and hot water cylinder insulation)
other energy efficiency measures (pipe lagging, low flow shower heads, efficient lights)
clean heat (heat pumps, modern wood and wood pellet burners or gas space heating

[Moorf]

One thing I am looking at is not paying for oil heating in October I topped the tank up 33p per ltre again in Feb 44p per litre as it has been really cold in the uk yep had to top up aganin last week now 55p per litre and the company say this has now gone up again! to put this into prespective when I bought the house 4 years ago it was 19p per litre I have a 1250 litre tank which is now costing 3 times as much to fill I have now said the heating is not going on again until October hopefully we will have moved by then, we have to get used to it for NZ I am fed up of lining the oil giants pockets!

Wow!! Glad we got out when we did - when we first moved to Perthshire and had oil heating it was costing us around 16p / litre and when we left 6 yrs later to move here it was only around 23p!!! :exit

[veronica]

"NZ has an ocean buffer all around it.....so it will never been as warm and dry as Spain."
One of the other differences between the two is the fact that there is nothing between NZ and the south pole. Theres also a tremendous variety in the temps/weather here between, say Invarcargil in the south and Auckland and up in the north.
__________________

[suebeenz]

@JoJo, thanks for that chimney ballon tip. Actually seems like a quite good idea. I'm tempted to just shove that handful of plastic bags I have under the sink into the hole! :laugh

@ kanatakiwi: Cozy floors is a product sold by 'PinkBatts'. Expol really could be DIY job. Looks simple enough, but I just didn't want to kill my back, or carefully cut things out around plumbing etc. I decided to hire someone to install it instead. Scroll down on this page and you'll see CozyFloors. Note btw, that it suggests putting on 'Moiststop 759' on the ground as well. As mentioned earlier in the thread though, it's possible that this could be actually a really bad thing to do.

http://www.pinkbatts.co.nz/warm_solutions.asp

Also re heat pumps, had a salesman in ,he said the pump would bring the heat from attic. duh, our attic sounds like a gale force wind is going through there for most of the winter, and you can see daylight all the way around where the roof meets the upstairs floor. I know houses need to "breathe" but this is ridiculous!

:-). I don't quite know what he meant there. You'll still have an outside unit place somewhere, and that's supposedly where the heat is transfer from. Not from your attic. (there are heat transfer systems that supposedly recapture heat from attic, but in winter, there wouldn't be much there at 7am)

I did have a salesman talk about putting indoor unit in attic, and having the vents put in the ceiling instead. He eventually admitted that won't be very efficient, because hot air rises and i have high ceiling. He said they normally install them that way because it's often-times simpler to install.

If you don't have concrete foundation, and want vented heat pump, another approach is to mount the internal unit under your house. I have concerns about that too, how much heat loss would happen underneath the cold house. Leaning towards this solution though. At least a couple salesmen said it'd be more efficient for my house.

btw with storm windows, the one thing I don't miss, is having to constantly repaint in between the windows, because of all the trapped moisture. :-)

[suebeenz]

By the way, the installers of the central heat, strongly suggested that I put down a vapor barrier on the the ground under the house. Said it'd make a really noticeable difference for making the house feel drier. I think I'm going to go for it. Has anybody else put one under their house?

[ant7jen]

What about radiant heating in the floor? If you want to save money, isnt there a way to make a poor man's radiant heating with some high temp hose and hook it up to your hot water heater and run it under the sub-floor?

[ant7jen]

Here in Tennessee, my house is on a slab foundation and I notice that my house is very dry in the winter and I notice static electricity when my dog sniffs at me and shocks the two of us.