[nippa&pippa]

Had conversation with my friend this morning who also got young baby as well as me.
She asked me what is the difference between UK and NZ in bringing a baby up.

Far I know:
1. NZ is pro-breastfeeding and I know lots of mums are more keen to delay weaning till baby is 6months than in UK.
2. Very small range of baby food in NZ.
3. I have seen more mums using cloth nappies in NZ than UK.
4. (this does frightened my friend) there is no regular weight and health check clinic like UK, Plunket nurses will see baby at 6week, 3month, 5month, 9months, 15months etc, more spread out. For me althought, no more stress over baby's weight of loss and gain yo-yo again after my first two's problems.

Her last questions was, is baby (up to 12months old) care in NZ is good or bad compare with UK?
Right....over to you, what you think?????

[Familyofmonkeys]

We arrived when baby was 12 weeks old. Made me realise we have only seen a plunkett nurse twice since arriving 10 months ago and baby will be 13 months on Friday....looks like he has missed a check somewhere. I personally LOVE the fact that you don't have health visitors bugging you to go to clinics to get your baby weighed all the time. In UK I got regular phone calls from my HV asking why I had never attended a clinic. I find plunkett nurses here (that I have seen) much more friendly and seem to offer you advise rather than telling you how to do something.

Nappies...I would have considered cloth nappies, but didn't get any as childcare in UK for older child would not (at all) do cloth nappies, and would not be worth buying any for 3rd child. Compared to UK disposable nappies, the choice here is very limited, they are expensive and come in smaller packs, and there is nothing I have found that is as good as Pampers for absorbancy.

They do seem much more pro breastfeeding here which is nice. I used to get comments in UK about hadn't I switched to bottles yet....but all 3 of my kids have been b/f for over a year and never had formula. Even h/v in UK pressurised for formula when eldest child had one of her normal reviews and weight gain was small (9th percentile). Had same again when youngest child was slow to gain weight initially as born 3 weeks early. Nice not to have someone looking over shoulder all the time here...but you can approach if you have any worries.

Choice of baby food very poor compared to UK (especially dry packet stuff), but not problem for me as apart from baby rice and baby porridge/breakfast cereal, I have always made my own baby food anyway.

Other observation is that some guidelines differ a bit in NZ from UK. One is for honey. UK say not before 12 months, NZ say not before 6 months. UK say boil water for drinking for first 12 months, NZ say boil for only 6 months (unless from a bore then boil for 18 months). Also the guidelines for adding dairy/wheat/nuts etc is different too.... and they seem to expect babies in NZ to eat more mushy foods for longer compared to UK guidelines. Age to start weaning is the same, but personally I think it is more a case of watching signs your baby is ready (i.e. tongue motion/interest in food) than holding off until a particular age. My oldest started at 5 and 1/2 months, middle child 4 months (although only less allergy foods like pear/apple) and youngest was almost 6 months.

[Lupin]

Nappies...I would have considered cloth nappies, but didn't get any as childcare in UK for older child would not (at all) do cloth nappies, and would not be worth buying any for 3rd child.

Not if you buy the all singing prefolded posh-o ones but some second hand terry cloth nappies and rubber pants will save you a fortune and get you bonus enviro points :)

All my friends had lovely cloth nappies with various printed covers etc but I used terry cloth squares given to me by my mum, folded in the different ways as they grew (shown by my mum) and fastened with a nappy pin. Cheap rubber pants and I probably saved a small FORTUNE :cheers

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Baby-gear/Nappies-changing/Nappies/Cloth/auction-144544268.htm

[Familyofmonkeys]

Not if you buy the all singing prefolded posh-o ones but some second hand terry cloth nappies and rubber pants will save you a fortune and get you bonus enviro points :)

All my friends had lovely cloth nappies with various printed covers etc but I used terry cloth squares given to me by my mum, folded in the different ways as they grew (shown by my mum) and fastened with a nappy pin. Cheap rubber pants and I probably saved a small FORTUNE :cheers

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Baby-gear/Nappies-changing/Nappies/Cloth/auction-144544268.htm

I can imagine how much money you would save, but unfortunately we came over with 3 kids all in nappies in the middle of winter. I hate to think how much it would cost to get all those nappies laundered and tumble dried everyday....agree it would have been better on the enviro points though.

[Lupin]

I can imagine how much money you would save, but unfortunately we came over with 3 kids all in nappies in the middle of winter. I hate to think how much it would cost to get all those nappies laundered and tumble dried everyday....agree it would have been better on the enviro points though.

You just soak them in nappy san and run them through the machine on the rinse cycle. They don't require hot washing as the nappy san sterilises them. No need to hot wash. We had two buckets- one for just wet nappies and one for dirty nappies. The former got nappy san soak and rinse cycle on the machine (every two days) and the latter the nappy san soak (after sluicing in the loo and I used a biodegradable flushable liner) and a warm wash in bio detergent . Even in winter I could dry nappies on line or rack in the house in the UK- with the lovely sunny winter days here it would be all the more doable I'm sure.

Having said that, I only ever had one in nappies- three would definitely break me and I'd be heading for the Pampers faster than you can fold a cloth nappy :laugh

[nippa&pippa]

You just soak them in nappy san and run them through the machine on the rinse cycle. They don't require hot washing as the nappy san sterilises them. No need to hot wash. We had two buckets- one for just wet nappies and one for dirty nappies. The former got nappy san soak and rinse cycle on the machine (every two days) and the latter the nappy san soak (after sluicing in the loo and I used a biodegradable flushable liner) and a warm wash in bio detergent . Even in winter I could dry nappies on line or rack in the house in the UK- with the lovely sunny winter days here it would be all the more doable I'm sure.

Having said that, I only ever had one in nappies- three would definitely break me and I'd be heading for the Pampers faster than you can fold a cloth nappy :laugh

ditto, all three wore same cloth nappies, didn't need to buy new ones per child, my youngest is now in cloth nappies. My middle child opted for wearing pants at 19months :nice1 but at wrong timing for potty training as just had new baby then....:exit

I agreed with you, MOF about HV is not on my back about baby's weight this time.....aahhhh bliss.

[migratory birds]

Not exactly related to baby/child rearing but...

I love that NZ supports midwives so strongly and that 75% of babes are guided into the world by midwives (compared to 8% in the US). And that mums-to-be get to choose where they want to give birth and their midwives will go whereever mum wants to be. In the US, only 1% of babes are born at home (not sure what the homebirth rate is in NZ). Kiwi mums aren't limited by out-of-pocket costs if they choose to birth at home (women in the US usually must pay out-of-pocket if they choose to birth at home).

But I don't want the discussion to trail off onto a midwifery thread and get away from the original question.

[migratory birds]

I noticed far more mums CARRYING their babies in slings or just in their arms...

In the US, we see far more mums toting their babies awkwardly in carseats or being pushed (apart from mum or dad, usually facing the other direction) in strollers.

[Familyofmonkeys]

My middle child opted for wearing pants at 19months :nice1

Am very jealous. Was complete battle to get oldest out of nappies. She had no bladder control AT ALL until 3 1/2 and by then, nappies were a stubborn habit. Took until 4 years 4 months to get her out of them totally (and LOTS of bribary:o)....good job we are not in UK or she would have started school about a weeks after we got her sorted.

Desparately trying to get no 2 out of nappies....he is 3 next week. But, although he will go on the toilet (only for daddy with choc button bribary) he is also quite happy to walk around it wet/soiled pants/trousers and doesn't want to stand still long enough to get changed. Tried him butt naked in the garden thinking that if there was nothing to catch it he might want to use the toilet...but no luck there either :(

Weirdly....baby no 3 (13 months this week) has been going on the toilet for the last 3 weeks after every meal...no fuss at all. Haven't had to change a soiled nappy at home at all, only when we have been out somewhere and no toilet to put him on. I wish the other two had been this easy!!!!

[Tia Maria]

I must say 'baby wise' I have found things to be reasonably similar compared to the UK. Although I agree there is less choice in baby goods.

For me the differences really occur when they reach toddler stage and older as I find NZ a lot more easy going and child friendly.

Cheers

Tia

[Familyofmonkeys]

I noticed far more mums CARRYING their babies in slings or just in their arms...

In the US, we see far more mums toting their babies awkwardly in carseats or being pushed (apart from mum or dad, usually facing the other direction) in strollers.

I noticed this too. I had my babies in papouse as much as possible (until they got too big). Much easier to keep them contented when they are snuggled up again your chest....and means I can avoid the dreaded double buggy until they are bigger :laugh In UK I was the only person I know who carried baby around this way. Here I see babies in papouses and slings all the time.

[Lupin]

I have observed that cloth nappy wearers generally seem to be out of nappies sooner than disposable wearing tots. I guess this is because they are totally aware of bladder function from the outset (both mine were dry by day before 16 months and by night before 2nd birthday, with no prompting other than a shopping trip for special undies once they'd started 'telling me').

I note the irony of these new disposable nappies that have a 'new wetness thingamy' ..... they spend years pushing disposables on the back of how 'dry' baby feels, only to realise that this does the child no favours in the long term and so introduce a less permeable layer :laugh What's wrong with 'real' nappies????

I 'see' many more mother's breastfeeding and using slings than in the UK and more hands-on Dad's, but I've no idea whether this is representative of numbers of parent's making these choices or a culture where you don't need to feed your baby holed up in a public toilet for fear of offending the masses :uhoh

[Familyofmonkeys]

I note the irony of these new disposable nappies that have a 'new wetness thingamy' ..... they spend years pushing disposables on the back of how 'dry' baby feels, only to realise that this does the child no favours in the long term and so introduce a less permeable layer :laugh

You are quite right...alot of kids (but not all) I know who wore cloth nappies were trained earlier, if they are physically able to contol bladder and bowels.

On the advice of UK h/v I tried those 'wet liner' nappies with both my older two for a while...bloomin expensive & a waste of money, and being wet didn't seem to bother them in the slightest...they were quite happy to sit there with a wet bum :roll

Then bought those towelling lined pants from boots with the waterproof outsides. I thought if they felt more wet and soggy I'd have more luck getting them to use potty or toilet....but no.....they could be stood there with wee leaking down their legs...and still not bothered :wah I just ended up with mountains of wet/soiled laundry every day.

In end my excellent GP said that while some lucky kids are able to control bladder from about 18 months, some can't properly control until they are nearer to 5....seems I am on the unlucky end. In UK there were 13 pre-schools in my area and only one of them would take my daughter in nappies (unless child special needs and they get the extra grant for another staff member). Here is NZ all of the kindys i've visited so far have been quite happy to have kids in nappies and are much more realistic in their expectations of all kids being dry by 3 years old :) The first time we saw a plunkett nurse she said exactly the same thing as my GP from UK which was a nice confidence boost too!

[Tia Maria]

FOM wrote:

In end my excellent GP said that while some lucky kids are able to control bladder from about 18 months, some can't properly control until they are nearer to 5....seems I am on the unlucky end. In UK there were 13 pre-schools in my area and only one of them would take my daughter in nappies (unless child special needs and they get the extra grant for another staff member). Here is NZ all of the kindys i've visited so far have been quite happy to have kids in nappies and are much more realistic in their expectations of all kids being dry by 3 years old The first time we saw a plunkett nurse she said exactly the same thing as my GP from UK which was a nice confidence boost too!

And some take a lot longer to be dry through the night, although Mums often keep quiet about it.

This can be for various reasons, emotional, behavioural, physical (some have small bladders or don't produce the hormone that decreases the production of urine at night time) and is more likely to happen in boys rather than girls.

I know of several people who have successfully trained one or two children but then had an absolute nightmare with the next one, despite following the same regime.

Oh the joys of parenting.

Cheers

Tia

[nippa&pippa]

You are quite right...alot of kids (but not all) I know who wore cloth nappies were trained earlier, if they are physically able to contol bladder and bowels.



Like mine ;) but

And some take a lot longer to be dry through the night, although Mums often keep quiet about it.

Like my eldest son, still wearing nappies at night :wah

I noticed far more mums CARRYING their babies in slings or just in their arms...


Just fetch photo...hang on...here, took photo when my youngest was newborn for my friend to get idea of sling I used...

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/nippa101/slings/sling003.jpg

[Lupin]

My oldest daughter has two friends here who wear pull ups- they're both girls and 10 years old.

The worst thing you can do, imo, is to make any sort of a deal about it. All kids get there in the end- making it a deal only delays and complicates the process, as far as I can see.

Nice picture Sophia but is that really you just after giving birth to your third baby???? Where's the baby flab?????

[nippa&pippa]

Nice picture Sophia but is that really you just after giving birth to your third baby???? Where's the baby flab?????

:D yep :p

[Familyofmonkeys]

The worst thing you can do, imo, is to make any sort of a deal about it. All kids get there in the end- making it a deal only delays and complicates the process, as far as I can see.



Dead right:nice1
And it is sooo nice here in Nz that there isn't the pressure of getting them dry in order to start kindy...less stress for parents and child:)

[Lupin]

Dead right:nice1
And it is sooo nice here in Nz that there isn't the pressure of getting them dry in order to start kindy...less stress for parents and child:)

In fact, I think they're going to have to stop that sort of policy in the UK under some equal opportunities legislation :) Glad there's none of that nonsense here :)

[migratory birds]

Nice picture Sophia but is that really you just after giving birth to your third baby???? Where's the baby flab?????

It's all that calf wrangling and tractor riding that she does!

That's exactly the kind of sling I wrapped my babe up in - metres of fabric wrapped every which way. Extraordinarily comfortable as baby's weight was evenly distributed across my body.

We moved from there into shoulder slings and then a backpack.

[nippa&pippa]

It's all that calf wrangling and tractor riding that she does!



:laugh plus running after two preschoolers!! My MIL wondering where I get all energy from to deal with three young kids plus looking after lands & animals :laugh

[nippa&pippa]

What about the mothers and babies network?

I have found the kiwi mums are more friendly and supportive, no bitchy about other mums or peer pressure on baby's milestones/developments etc like UK :o

[Familyofmonkeys]

Another thing I love is that when you are out shopping and kids get a bit bored, people will actually come over and talk to your children, rather than expect you to desparately try and keep them quiet. For me this isn't just a once off thing...I see it all the time.

Mind you...I hate how they offer kids sweets all over the place too and then you look like a mean parent when you say no. I was gobsmacked when they were all offered lollipops at their last lot of immunisations at Dr surgery...last place I would expect them to encourage bad eating habits. In the end they found them some stickers instead.

And daughters kindy they seem to be giving out sweet all the time too. I don't mind the odd slice of cake or cookie on someones birthday (as long as it is veggie) but I can't understand why they say you are supposed to pack your child a healthy lunch, and then hey give out sweets so often.
One thing at her pre-school in UK that was good...if you brought in birthday cake, you had to put up a list of ingredients up on the board that morning (ideally day before) and other parents could tick to say it was OK for child to have some or not. Solves all problems of food allergies and veggie/vegal/halal diets etc...and no awkward moments with some kids being left out later on. Staff kept some dried fruit etc in stock so no kids ever missed out on having a nibble :nice1

[jubjub]

Lollipops are everywhere here... DS doesnt even like them (or didnt until a couple of weeks ago) I think they are generally given into kindy for birthdays as they are pretty safe for everyone from an allergy point of view. DS gets given jelly beans by one doc, a stamp on his hand from the other, and nothing from our regular doc! Marshmallows too seem to be on tap for toddlers.... (Ds doesnt like them either!)

There is the "oh my child does this" thing going on, but luckily not among anyone I call a friend. I do see it happen though. along with the tuts and judgemental looks when you dont do something the way that other person would... human nature i guess.... I got evils this mornings music as I was very firm and stern with DS after he kicked me in the head, after being asked/told twice to stop it!

And sophia, you are one hot mamma...... *wolf whistle* :D

[Familyofmonkeys]

I got evils this mornings music as I was very firm and stern with DS after he kicked me in the head, after being asked/told twice to stop it!


I know the feeling :o ...after my terror headbutted me in the face, I have been keeping him on reins when we do our drop off and collection from kindy. One of the staff there has just 'offered' to assist in 'managing' his behaviour. Turns out that she doesn't agree with my discipline methods...but as far as I am concerned, kids get some free rein, but if they cross the line they need to learn there are consequences, otherwise how to they learn the boundaries for what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. It is obviously working because he has been much better behaved the last 2 weeks. I have been letting him walk by himself, but if he runs off he now gets put in reins...no arguement.

[nippa&pippa]

Oddly, my son's kindy banned all type of foods including sweets for birthday because of multiple food allergies, poor teachers! they got long list of allergies that they decide to save the hassles by banned it. However children allow to bring their own morning/afternoon tea as long as got no milk, egg and nuts in it and MUST not to share with other kids. So for my son's 5th birthday coming up in July, instead of bringing sweets/cakes, I had to buy something that useful for kindy children to use, ie books, learning toys etc.
With my children's food allergies, I can easy explain to people who hand out sweets, biscuits etc that they can't have it if I can't look at ingredients. My eldest can understand why I said no, but my middle is too young to understood yet, so I get full blown tantrum from her :mad:

[nippa&pippa]

I know the feeling :o ...after my terror headbutted me in the face, I have been keeping him on reins when we do our drop off and collection from kindy. One of the staff there has just 'offered' to assist in 'managing' his behaviour. Turns out that she doesn't agree with my discipline methods...but as far as I am concerned, kids get some free rein, but if they cross the line they need to learn there are consequences, otherwise how to they learn the boundaries for what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. It is obviously working because he has been much better behaved the last 2 weeks. I have been letting him walk by himself, but if he runs off he now gets put in reins...no arguement.

That what I do! put her in rein or put her in pushchair if she wasn't do as told. I often get funny look from people when I am pushing twin pushchair with 2 years old hanging out and screaming head off and youngest one fast asleep behind her:laugh

[Tia Maria]

What about the mothers and babies network?

I have found the kiwi mums are more friendly and supportive, no bitchy about other mums or peer pressure on baby's milestones/developments etc like UK :o

Maybe I was lucky in the UK, but I had a really nice Mum's group, met some really nice Mums in NZ too.

I find cake for the mornings and wine for the afternoons seems to work well in mellowing everyone out!

Cheers

Tia