[shakyle2906]

Please dont think i am at all racist, but do you find that Maori culture is pushed down your throat here ??

I work at the local DHB, and my interview questions for the job i am in now (not first role) was all about how we are supposed to treat maoris.

Then, we had a days oreintation, which again involved an hour or so going into the Marae onsite at the hospital, doing the 'powhiri' (calling) and the 'hongi (whole meeting/greeting in maori was done), then we had the meeting/greeting with the maori elders where we touched foreheads with them.

Today i hear that there is a full day on the maori culture again that i have to do...........

Please dont get me wrong, whilst i am keen to learn, i find it fascinating that so much time goes into this and you have no choice but to attend.

A lot of my work colleagues have lived here all their lives and they are not happy with the way it is 'pushed on you'.

Any thoughts ?

As i said, please dont take this the wrong way, i have a lot of work colleagues that are maoris and they are very nice.

Whilst, a lot of patients i have come across are so so rude...... and also, have had a few experiences in shops when they think they are so much better than you...........

Sharon

[Moorf]

Absolutely no Maori training in the Council (library) job I held in Chch. Had a course on respect in the workplace for all types - including gay/disabled/ethnic minorities etc, but that was it.

But then again, there's not exactly a big Maori population round here.

[gil]

I have only come across organisations where people ask for MORE of that type of training!!

Gil

[Sam B]

Hmmm, no, I don't feel like I've had enough really. It's a big part of my job, and I want to get it right. I've had 1 full day, but it only really scratched the surface, I want more. I guess it's an attempt to redress the balance too.

[zardell]

Please dont get me wrong, whilst i am keen to learn, i find it fascinating that so much time goes into this and you have no choice but to attend.



Personally, I always found the subject fascinating - full stop.

Julie

xx

[Smiler]

I'd love some free training pushed down my throat please! :cheers

A friend who works for a govt dept used to pass me copies of her training booklets when she'd done her 'Maori days'. I'll take anything I can to help to help me integrate into the country I've chosen to make my home.

[Carol]

As an immigrant - moving to a multicultural country - I truly needed to know as much as possible about Maori culture, language and tradition.
I too find the whole thing fascinating.
When I was teaching at primary level - I took everything I could get.
It was all useful and really relevant. I never considered I was offering in return a "token gesture" to the kids I taught - as I was honest - and told them I was learning too. I often got Maori parents in to help me. They loved it.

My 4 day stay on a Marae with my daughter's school last year opened my eyes to a world I never knew existed. It was full of love and caring and an honest desire to "tell it like it really is". Not all the good things about Maori are reported..... in fact - the opposite is more the case really. Until I actually lived it for those few days - I knew very little at all - even after 12 years of being here and "doing" all the "expected" stuff.


Today I have been on a course for Adult Education Educators. One part of it was on "Engaging Pacific Island learners"
I learnt SO much it wasn't funny - and I have been teaching for 20 years!

[lockstock]

I loved the powhiri and the whole te kotahitanga thing. I'm learning to reo and love the kapa haka. It's very much part of the culture of the people we live and work with. If you're working with patients surely you need to know how the whanau support each other and the protocols involved.

I'm heading for our sleepover on the Marae tomorrow night. It's an amazing way of life and I feel privileged to let the kids teach me all about it.

[Chiba]

I don't object to the Maori cultural awareness stuff at all. I do, however, object to it coming with a side order of christian baloney. So much for a secular society!

[shakyle2906]

Hi

Listen, i wasnt being offensive about this at all, and think i may have caused some offence ? Certainly wasnt meant to..........

Where i work, i am having a lot of mixed reactions to this training and people i work with think its a waste of time............ I am happy to attend just that everyone sayd it gets their backs up that its 'pushed down your throat'.

I know i came to a multi cultural country and am not disputing that for one minute.

I just wanted opinions thats all! No offence was meant.

I work with maoris weho are nice but have had some vert nasty dealings with some also, and i mean nasty, as patients as well as in public whilst shopping.

PLEASE dont take offence.............

Sharon

[dharder]

Today i hear that there is a full day on the maori culture again that i have to do...........

Maybe you should look at this the other way round. Maoris have the western European tradition and values shoved down their throats 24/7. That's what governs them, what polices them, what teaches them, and what treats them in hospitals.

Even though Maori is an official language, I don't know anyone white (me included, but about to embark on my first course) who can actually speak it with some confidence. I don't see the schools going out of their ways teaching it, either. There is the occasional word here or there, the odd gesture, but no coherent way to teach the language to a level that could be taken seriously in a conversation. In fact, the boys' primary school teacher thought the idea of either of them learning Maori was hilarious, because she thought the idea of a blond and blue eyed little boy speaking it was too funny.

A day of induction and an hour learning greetings is surely not pushing it down anyone's throat if you compare it to the exposure to the dominant culture all around us.

Daniela

[shakyle2906]

Maybe you should look at this the other way round. Maoris have the western European tradition and values shoved down their throats 24/7. That's what governs them, what polices them, what teaches them, and what treats them in hospitals.

Even though Maori is an official language, I don't know anyone white (me included, but about to embark on my first course) who can actually speak it with some confidence. I don't see the schools going out of their ways teaching it, either. There is the occasional word here or there, the odd gesture, but no coherent way to teach the language to a level that could be taken seriously in a conversation. In fact, the boys' primary school teacher thought the idea of either of them learning Maori was hilarious, because she thought the idea of a blond and blue eyed little boy speaking it was too funny.

A day of induction and an hour learning greetings is surely not pushing it down anyone's throat if you compare it to the exposure to the dominant culture all around us.

Daniela



Can i ask why you have been so blunt ?
I asked for opinions as i am also entitled to mine!
Why is it on here that no one likes something 'negative' said

[dharder]

Can i ask why you have been so blunt ?
I asked for opinions as i am also entitled to mine!
Why is it on here that no one likes something 'negative' said

I'm not sure what you mean by blunt, I simply suggested that it could help to look at this from a different angle.

At no point in my post have I said you aren't entitled to your opinion.

Daniela

[shakyle2906]

I'm not sure what you mean by blunt, I simply suggested that it could help to look at this from a different angle.

At no point in my post have I said you aren't entitled to your opinion.

Daniela



I appreciate what you are saying, but when you read back on all the responses i have had, it seems i am the bad one again!

I just do feel that you should have a say if you want to attend this type of training. I found the orientation very fascinating and had never experienced anything like it in my life. I just find that having another day of it rattles peoples cages where i work, as a lot of the NZ people that have lived here all their life ask why should they have to learn maori cultures.

Other people who have come from other DHB's in NZ dont seem to have training like this mandatory, our Hospital do.

I guess thats the way with people voicing their opinion, its what frame of mind you yourself read it!

I just dont want to feel like a racist ignorant pig cos i certainly am not. I treat people the way i expect to be treated myself, with respect and care and understanding. I have just found that dealing with some of the maori population, they dont return this at all and as i said have had some very nasty dealings with a few to the point i have had to make a complaint to my manager.

Sharon

[wiki]

Hey Sharon, I don't think people are having a go at you, they just wish they had the opportunity.

Ten years ago, the DHBs did almost no Maori culture training. Now they're ''making up for lost time'' - but there are, in my opinion, some really good reasons.

A lot of very important things to Maori would be things I'd completely ignore in my pakeha upbringing.

Some of them are things you wouldn't do in a hospital anyway: In marae they sleep on the floor and the worst thing you can do is walk across someone's pillow, even if it's lying in the way, as the head is sacred and therefore the pillow should be treated with respect.

Because the head is sacred, you should never touch someone else's head without asking them first - that was a big lesson the hospitals had to bring in, because a nurse or doctor would look at a cut head and upset people who were already upset. A simple "I'm sorry, but I need to touch your head please" as a warning before doing it acknowledges their cultural sensitivity, which is a big step.

And while you're not a nurse, you don't know when someone might collapse in your reception and you may be the first to get to them.

The other big no-no is sitting on tables or benches (to me there is no problem with this as its something I grew up doing because it was the only way I could help Mum with the baking, considering my short legs.)

You should also not put purses or non-food shopping bags on kitchen benches or tables.

Kitchen sinks are only for preparing food and washing dishes (so much for mum bathing us in the kitchen sink when we were little!)

Another strange one for me is that Maori should wash tea towels on their own - never with clothes or items which touch the human body.

There are probably loads more I've forgotten, but the idea of such courses is to give you an understanding that the culture has big differences - even if you're not sure what to do in a circumstance, it might make you pause and at least say "is this appropriate" when you go about your work.

I admit most of the examples I gave aren't relevant for a hospital, but it's about awareness everywhere.

I wish my employer offered training, even thought I'm not really dealing with the public.

[wiki]

as a lot of the NZ people that have lived here all their life ask why should they have to learn maori cultures.


Sharon

And speaking as a Kiwi born and bred: we sure are stubborn about doing new things. NZ disregarded so much of its Maori heritage for so long (kids were strapped for speaking Maori at school 60 years ago) and its hard to make people realise that what they always assumed is unimportant is so important now.

I know of British people who had exactly the same reaction when they had to undergo training in how Muslim and Hindu patients preferred to be treated.

It's the "they moved to our blooming country, why shouldn't they be treated just like us" mentality - except with Maori, they were in NZ first.

[lockstock]

I don't object to the Maori cultural awareness stuff at all. I do, however, object to it coming with a side order of christian baloney. So much for a secular society!

Sorry but we have our missionary predecessors to thank for that. The same way they tried to kill off native culture in all the countries the Brits stole in the name of the King/Queen. With hindsight, the arrogance of the discoverers bringing 'civilisation' to the new world - was incredible. We surely can't criticise those cultures whose people converted?

[Smiler]

Hey Sharon, I don't think people are having a go at you, they just wish they had the opportunity.

Absolutely :yes :yes :yes

[shakyle2906]

Absolutely :yes :yes :yes



Thanks both
x

[Chiba]

We surely can't criticise those cultures whose people converted?

Err, actually, I can criticize anyone religious to be honest with you, along with anyone over the age of 8 who believes in the tooth fairy, and those folks who think we're visited by space aliens, and, and, and...

...but that's just me, and I'm digressing. :p

[lockstock]

Please dont think i am at all racist, but do you find that Maori culture is pushed down your throat here ??




Sharon, I'm not having a pop at you but you did ask the question and we have all given our opinion. I personally think you have opened up a brilliant topic which has given us all something to think about. I think the phrase 'pushed down your throat' may be a bit strong for some - but you have the right to ask it. Please take our responses as part of a healthy debate on a very real issue. You're good at making us think!!

[shakyle2906]

Sharon, I'm not having a pop at you but you did ask the question and we have all given our opinion. I personally think you have opened up a brilliant topic which has given us all something to think about. I think the phrase 'pushed down your throat' may be a bit strong for some - but you have the right to ask it. Please take our responses as part of a healthy debate on a very real issue. You're good at making us think!!



Thanks Lockstock!

Just dont any aggro caused..............

Sharon
x

[incredible hulse]

Haven't come across it personally. Had no specific training. Have a mild personal interest in respect that I am an immigrant to the country and keen to be aware of historical and cultural matters, but also aware that in modern times now represents a minority of the population. Do not have any guilt of empire times to worry any more than that to be honest

[zardell]

Because the head is sacred, you should never touch someone else's head without asking them first .



Well, I never knew that.

I remember once touching the face of a Maori baby whilst telling her mother what a pretty baby she had in her arms.

So easy to unknowingly insult someone eh?

Thanks Wiki.

And Sharon - I certainly wasn't offended or upset by your posts.. You were simply saying that people other than yourself had objections to compulsory training that, for whatever reason, they didn't feel it necessary to attend.

At no point did you ever say that you agreed or disagreed with 'em, you simply asked for our comments on their attitude.

Good debate I think - I've certainly learned from it.

Julie

xx

[lockstock]

Err, actually, I can criticize anyone religious to be honest with you, :p


Ummm That's a whole nuther thread, methinks!!!

And do you seriously mean to suggest that there isn't a tooth fairy? Huh, you'll be telling me Santa doesn't live at the North Pole next.;)

[Moorf]

Wow, I didn't know any of those Wiki :no

Perhaps a thread dedicated to that sort of thing would help those of us who don't have the opportunity to learn first hand or through work?

[wiki]

Wow, I didn't know any of those Wiki :no

Perhaps a thread dedicated to that sort of thing would help those of us who don't have the opportunity to learn first hand or through work?

It would be an interesting thread, and I could start it by cross-posting what I put on this one, but my protocol training was about 15 years ago as part of my journalism diploma so I'm pretty rusty on 90% of dos and donts - hopefully someone doing some current training might be a better person to launch it? (Plus, I'm a hypocrite about some Maori protocol like women not being able to speak formally on marae which I think is horrible - but that's just because I'm mouthy :D )

If no one else launches something, I will tomorrow.

[JandM]

Those details about Maori manners are fascinating and invaluable - also, it's very interesting that, as far as I remember (going back to a course 40 years ago), they are about the same as those respected by the Romany gypsies.

[shakyle2906]

It would be an interesting thread, and I could start it by cross-posting what I put on this one, but my protocol training was about 15 years ago as part of my journalism diploma so I'm pretty rusty on 90% of dos and donts - hopefully someone doing some current training might be a better person to launch it? (Plus, I'm a hypocrite about some Maori protocol like women not being able to speak formally on marae which I think is horrible - but that's just because I'm mouthy :D )

If no one else launches something, I will tomorrow.



Wiki

Have to admit, i found it 'insulting' a little when we went to the Marae, that men sat in the front and 'did the talking for everyone', while us women sat in the back and werent allowed to say a word............thats just my opinion though!

Sharon
x

[wiki]

Wiki

Have to admit, i found it 'insulting' a little when we went to the Marae, that men sat in the front and 'did the talking for everyone', while us women sat in the back and werent allowed to say a word............thats just my opinion though!

Sharon
x

If I wasn't dashing out to work I'd write down all I know about the warriror nation and the women being the power but staying silent in public back in the days when a rival tribal leader would kidnap the huia so it was better to know she wasn't the chief strategist. :yes

Have a look at the film Whale Rider since I know they look at the women on marae issue there.

More later :)

[ellenmelon]

jumping on quickly regarding shakyles problem with marae protocol...

men sit in front of women as women are sacred; they give life and the longevity of a tribe relys on them. women have a heck of a lot of power, as another poster said...just watch the older ladies if you're ever on a marae at a powhiri or just in general. they often have the final say/a strong vote on matters. women have a strong speaking role in some tribes also...

hope that makes sense! ive got to rush to uni! :(

[peebles16]

Wow am learning sooo much from this thread - excellent info everyone especially Wiki :)

Keep it coming please

Karenx

[Tia Maria]

I would definitely be interested in a Maori thread. Not just the customs and beliefs but how it is interpreted in day to day life.

I suspect, as with most cultures and religions, not everything is followed to the letter and some people are traditionalists while others have a more modern take on things. Its always interesting to see whether the latest young generation keep up the traditions.

Cheers

Tia

[kowhai]

Its always interesting to see whether the latest young generation keep up the traditions.

Good point.
I also wonder how many Maori traditions have become incorporated into Pakeha / Kiwi ways of thinking. ( am in a rush ). I for one find it truly awful seeing people sitting on tables and food preparation bench tops on TV. Is this commonly accepted as ok in Britain ? ( Its been some yrs since my O.E ) . Am sure there are others - but swimming calls...

[Sam B]

Yeah, it is very common to sit on worktops and tables in the UK, well, I always did when I was a teenager, and I've seen plenty of others. And also totally normal to walk into people's houses with shoes on without even asking whether to take them off or not.

I find that the families that I work with are all very different, and I can't just apply my training and think that is going to be ok - some adhere closely to traditions, and some see less aware of traditions than I am. I just ask now, have a discussion about what is/isn't appropriate.

I had a proud moment today - I managed to spend an hour in a Kohanga and not speak any English at all - granted, I hardly spoke, but I have learned a load of child-friendly phrases for things like "oh look" "well done" etc and I'm not quite so self conscious about using them now.

[willsken]

Sharon the observations you made ring true to the attitudes of some of the staff in my school. For me though I take as much training as I can get, as I teach quite a few Maori children and see learning about their culture as being part of my responsibility to them. I also find the whole subject fascinating on a personal level as well. We have a list of professional development courses to choose from and this was by far my first choice. Good thread by the way. :nice1

[Lupin]

As i said, please dont take this the wrong way, i have a lot of work colleagues that are maoris and they are very nice.

Whilst, a lot of patients i have come across are so so rude...... and also, have had a few experiences in shops when they think they are so much better than you...........

Sharon

I can't contribute to this thread really because your choice of phrase above riles me so. I think if you weren't a well liked poster I might not be alone.

[benandclare]

I can't contribute to this thread really because your choice of phrase above riles me so. I think if you weren't a well liked poster I might not be alone.

??????? lost me

Ben

[willsken]

I had a proud moment today - I managed to spend an hour in a Kohanga and not speak any English at all - granted, I hardly spoke, but I have learned a load of child-friendly phrases for things like "oh look" "well done" etc and I'm not quite so self conscious about using them now.

Well done! :clap :clap I'm very jealous, I've only just mastered the pronunciation of names. Note to self... "must make more effort" :yes

[shakyle2906]

I can't contribute to this thread really because your choice of phrase above riles me so. I think if you weren't a well liked poster I might not be alone.



?? Perhaps you may like to say what you mean ??
I wont be offended.
I too am lost ??
Whether i am a well like poster or not i would appreciate you saying what you feel ?? as i have done ??

Sharon

[Tia Maria]

?? Perhaps you may like to say what you mean ??
I wont be offended.
I too am lost ??
Whether i am a well like poster or not i would appreciate you saying what you feel ?? as i have done ??

Sharon

I can't speak on Lupin's behalf but I suspect its the fact that in one breath you talk about what nice Maori people you know, but then in the next comment that you have met many you don't like.

Obviously within every culture/race/sex there are nice and not so nice people so by stating it you are kind of invoking the "I'm not racist/homophobic/sexist as some of my best friends are Maori/gay/female" argument.

I am sure you have met nice white kiwis in your job and some pretty nasty white kiwi patients but you chose not to say this as its not an issue to you. By choosing to say it about Maori people you have shown that this is an issue.

It wasn't clear to me what you objected to, was it the relevance of learning about your Maori patients? Or the time taken to learn about them? Or the fact that some Maori patients had been rude to you?

I also wasn't sure what had happened in the shop to leave you feeling that a Maori person was better than you. Maybe if you could let us know what the incident was, then it wouldn't feel like such a sweeping statement?

I am glad that your last post stated you won't be offended as I know that some people are up for an online discussion where all different aspects are discussed but others take it more personally. :yes

Cheers

Tia

[shakyle2906]

Thanks for your comments Tia, noted!

Yes i am bothered in what people think about me but i am entitled to my opinion. Perhaps i havent worded it as i should have and now people have me down as a racist pig, which i am not.

I do feel like a lot of time is taken on this training, i feel that it should be ones choice!

It seems i just cant get it right on this forum. One bad word and you get shot down in flames!

I am not trying to be Miss Popular, but it would feel nice to be liked! Everyone voices opinions on this forum and i feel you get shot down in flames from everywhere if you put something down someone disagrees with.

Perhaps my thoughts and input arent needed anymore.

Sharon

[Sam B]

Sharon, I don't think anyone has shot you down in flames. You asked whether people agreed with your point of view, and in the main, we didn't, but that doesn't mean we don't like you, or that we were offended. You opened up a debate, that's all.

[shakyle2906]

Sharon, I don't think anyone has shot you down in flames. You asked whether people agreed with your point of view, and in the main, we didn't, but that doesn't mean we don't like you, or that we were offended. You opened up a debate, that's all.

Thanks Sam, but it sure doesnt feel that way at the moment!

[shakyle2906]

I also wasn't sure what had happened in the shop to leave you feeling that a Maori person was better than you. Maybe if you could let us know what the incident was, then it wouldn't feel like such a sweeping statement?


Cheers

Tia



Being told to get back to my own country doesnt go down well, as i was told. Being told i have come to take someone elses job doesnt either! Also having my son laughed at by a group of maori boys for having red hair, reducing him to tears, isnt too nice either.

Perhapa you may now understand ?

I am not against learning their culture at all, but when you are spoken to like this, i didnt like it at all.

Yes, you can all tell me to grow up now.................

Sharon

[LesleyS]

Sharon I for one appreciate your posts, I think what you had to say was direct and honest, what's wrong with that?

As much as I believe it is important to respect and understand another culture as an immigrant living in NZ - the whole picture has to be taken into consideration and put into context in terms of how appropriate the knowledge and training is to your particular job and how this improves your day to day relationships with co workers and clients. Great thread!

[peebles16]

Ah Sharon I don't think anyone's going to tell you to grow up I think maybe like all of us who are fairly recent arrivals we're feeling a bit over-sensitive :) I do think you opened up a great thread and am glad you've clarified some of your points based on your experiences as it gives it all a bit of context. I do think though that this is a forum, membership from all walks of life, huge variety of opinions and we're not always going to agree sometimes that 's hard to read but it's not personal...

Just my opinion - honest :)
Karenx

[NZ Hopeful]

Being told to get back to my own country doesnt go down well, as i was told. Being told i have come to take someone elses job doesnt either! Also having my son laughed at by a group of maori boys for having red hair, reducing him to tears, isnt too nice either.

Perhapa you may now understand ?

I am not against learning their culture at all, but when you are spoken to like this, i didnt like it at all.

Yes, you can all tell me to grow up now.................

Sharon

Mine is just a general comment, Im not yet in NZ so cannot comment on Maori's...

Would those kind of comments not happen in every country/walk of life?

Look at the way immigrants are treated in the UK for instance, and coming from a large family of gingers unfortunately that is something that is always going to be teased about, same as children with glasses (one of mine gets teased daily about her glasses) - it's the fact that it is something different to the majority.

Just my opinion :)

[shakyle2906]

Mine is just a general comment, Im not yet in NZ so cannot comment on Maori's...

Would those kind of comments not happen in every country/walk of life?

Look at the way immigrants are treated in the UK for instance, and coming from a large family of gingers unfortunately that is something that is always going to be teased about, same as children with glasses (one of mine gets teased daily about her glasses) - it's the fact that it is something different to the majority.

Just my opinion :)


Yes i understand what you say, but it is still not appreciated!

Sharon

[Brian]

Things that seem perfectly normal to us might be incredibly disrespectful to someone else of a different culture. You would not want people to feel so uncomfortable that they do not seek medical help when they need it, so the training you describe seems perfectly appropriate. Perhaps it's more a matter of them not properly explaining why they feel it's important?

Being in the US and part Native American I know how bad things can get if they aren't handled properly. I find it refreshing to see how good relations are between the cultures in NZ, relatively speaking of course.

[Carol]

I do feel like a lot of time is taken on this training, i feel that it should be ones choice!

Sharon

Yes - there is a lot of time taken on this training.
And yes - I agree it should be your own choice.

Perhaps..... your question should have been "Do you think the training offered in New Zealand in Maori protocol, culture and tradition should be compulsory or not".

I think you may just have got a much more heated debate.....but....you wouldn't have felt so personally attacked.
Which actually - I dont think anyone intended to do. I'm just reading lots of opinions here....

[zardell]

Perhaps..... your question should have been "Do you think the training offered in New Zealand in Maori protocol, culture and tradition should be compulsory or not".


Excellent point Carol.

Any debate of this nature will probably turn into a heated debate and someone somewhere along the line is bound to take offence, but as long as comments aren't directed to an individual or taken as a personal attack, then lets go for it.

I'll start...


I believe that this type of training could/should be part of any 'in house' mandatory training course and if presented correctly it would be a very enlightening experience for the trainees.

As for it being mandatory, no I think not.

I remember years ago when our home town back in the UK was attracting a lot of immigrants, the locals didn't know and weren't prepared to understand their culture, so the general consensus of the locals seemed to be the 'When in Rome' scenario. In other words, they are in our country and should live their lives as we do.

Now, I don't believe that to be right, but maybe if the opportunities had been widely available for locals to gain a better understanding of other cultures and how traumatic migrating to another country is, then just maybe we could all have benefited.

Over to you...

Julie

xx

PS.
Carol. I cant rep you, so have one of these instead....:clap

[Tia Maria]

Shakyle2906 wrote:

Being told to get back to my own country doesnt go down well, as i was told. Being told i have come to take someone elses job doesnt either! Also having my son laughed at by a group of maori boys for having red hair, reducing him to tears, isnt too nice either.

Perhapa you may now understand ?

Yes, no one should have to put up with those kinds of comments and as they often take us by surprise we often don't get to respond in the way we want and end up thinking of all the things we should have said. :(

I also understand that if the majority of your experiences with Maori people have been negative then it is only natural to take this with you to any Maori situation. This is probably increased if you work, or live, in a situation where there is a 'them and us' scenario.

Just as someone who sees rude, hooded kids on their bus home everyday, might start to dislike, or feel uncomfortable, around all teenagers. And someone who has only ever been in relationships where men have treated them badly or beaten them, might feel that all men are like that.

On an intellectual level we know that not all teenagers, men or Maori people are nasty but on an emotional level it is hard to let bad experiences go.
Also when someone from our own cultural background is nasty to us it is easier to not put it down to their colour/race/sex as we have a whole 20 years of experience of that culture where we would have met plenty of nice people to balance the nasty people out.

I suspect that as your work colleagues feel the same as you, you were surprised that this thread didn't go the same way. It could be because the wider experience of this forum meant that more people were in a position to experience a positive view of Maori people. It could be that on forums people are more likely to say how they feel than when talking face to face. It could just be that the first few people set the tone of the thread. If the first few poster had viewed mandatory training as 'a waste of valuable time and PC gone mad', the thread could have taken a whole different turn.

I've been lucky in that I've only received one negative reaction since being in NZ and that was from a rather upper class lady, who when I said 'hello', looked at me like something she'd just scraped me off the bottom of her shoe, and asked why all English people insist on coming to Devonport. I pointed out that I was from London and that there were more than enough NZers there to balance the scales. I also went on to enquire whether she thought everyone should never move out of the area they were born in, and if so, to what extent she would impose this? Would they be allowed to move country, city, out of the square mile they were born in? I then made my excuses and grabbed myself a glass of wine! :D

Hopefully, you will start to have a lot more positive experiences under your belt and you won't feel so uncomfortable and it will be interesting to see if your view changes over time.

Out of interest, did you feel the training offered you anything of value?

Cheers

Tia

[peebles16]

Great posts Tia and Carol as ever - also have to dish the rep out elsewhere apparently :D
I personally would love to learn more about Maori culture as feel this is something that we didn't really get (or rather made the time) to research before we came out.. So can't wait to get job and I'll be signing up for the whole lot.
My eldest son's Yr8 buddy in school is a Maori lad who quite often walks home from school with us and spends his time trying to teach us various maori phrases - he then cracks up laughing at our pathetic attempts with our strong scottish accents :D Great fun!

Cheers
Karenx

[willsken]

It is a difficult one, isn't it? If all you have experienced is negative from a certain culture then as a human being you will form opinions that are not perhaps correct. I can think of two things that spring to mind like this.

When we first arrived my older son was bullied both physically and verbally by a couple of Maori boys, basically telling the white boy to go back where he came from. It would have been very easy to form an opinion from this but we were lucky that the younger boy paired up and because almost inseparable with a Maori boy he went to school with. I also teach a lot of very lovely Maori kids in school. This gave a real balance and I don't have a negative opinion of all Maoris because of my own experiences.

I also remember having a argument with my sister, who is a police woman in Bristol. She basically said if there was a black man, wearing a baseball cap and driving a BMW around then he was going to be drug dealer. This clearly isn't always going to be the case but in her experience on the beat this is what she found.

I think it is really important to try and learn as much about the Maori culture as possible. It's a big part of life in NZ and I think we owe it to ourselves to embrace this as we settle into lives in our new country. Julie was quite right in what she said, if in the UK we tried to learn a little about the cultures of the people coming to settle there, there wouldn't be so much suspicion and lack of tolerance. IMHO there is far too much judgment and hatred of people in this world, based on skin colour, sexual preference, what they wear etc

[Carol]

I have just started a new job.....

I will be working predominantly with Maori and Pacific Island youth and adults.
And if I'm honest - it scares me!
Why?
Because I'm on their turf....
At 46 and after 20 years of teaching, I'm the new girl on the block again.
I'm a geordie girl - and fiercely proud of my heritage.
I hope I will be able to share some of it with the people I get to work with - and that they find it as interesting as I find theirs.

I believe.... I can do it. But its going to be tough.

And I have no doubt at all - that I am going to encounter prejudice and racism - directed towards me.
But without any knowledge of how these people work rest and play - I would be doomed.
For teachers....yes I do believe it is a mandatory training.
Because as Nicola says, it is our responsibility to turn minds onto learning. And without knowledge of the minds, we have little hope of achieving that.

For other occupations, perhaps not.

[willsken]

I have just started a new job.....


Good luck!!! :clap :clap :clap

[JandM]

Carol, congratulations on the new job. I've also taught people from many other cultures, and can relate to the doubts and determination you're feeling. All the best.

[Tia Maria]

I have just started a new job.....

I will be working predominantly with Maori and Pacific Island youth and adults.
And if I'm honest - it scares me!
Why?
Because I'm on their turf....
At 46 and after 20 years of teaching, I'm the new girl on the block again.
I'm a geordie girl - and fiercely proud of my heritage.
I hope I will be able to share some of it with the people I get to work with - and that they find it as interesting as I find theirs.

I believe.... I can do it. But its going to be tough.

And I have no doubt at all - that I am going to encounter prejudice and racism - directed towards me.
But without any knowledge of how these people work rest and play - I would be doomed.
For teachers....yes I do believe it is a mandatory training.
Because as Nicola says, it is our responsibility to turn minds onto learning. And without knowledge of the minds, we have little hope of achieving that.

For other occupations, perhaps not.

Good luck Carol! Its impressive after 20 years of teaching that you are taking a chance, and working out of your comfort zone. Just the fact that you are willing to do this is probably the best indicator that you will be successful.

I love to hear about people who take on challenges! :)

Cheers

Tia

[peebles16]

Good luck to you too Carol :)
Just an aside but if I wanted to learn more about maori culture are books and the library my only option.. I'd really like to take a class or go along to visit some maraes (spelling?) but being on the SI doesn't seem to be so many options?

Any ideas?
Cheers
Karenx

[JandM]

I found this site that gives contacts for Maori language courses. http://www.korero.maori.nz/contact/courses If you contact the people who run these, they might put you in touch with somewhere you could go for the cultural aspects? At a quick glance the hits that come up for culture http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Maori+culture+courses+South+Island look more like tourist attractions.

[Carol]

Thanks everyone
:-)

Karen - I think you are right - many more options on the NI.

But..... bet you've fitted right in "down there" being Scottish!
lol
:cheers

[peebles16]

Och Aye :D :D

karenx

[Carol]

Och Aye :D :D




Do you know Karen....
I once had an official written complaint about me -(by a Scot!!) made to my principal..... because I said that very thing (Och Aye) at a mock "Commonwealth Games" where I was leading the Scottish team - and our event was "tossing the k-bar".


God - some people need to get a life!
lol

[JandM]

Do you know Karen....
I once had an official written complaint about me -(by a Scot!!) made to my principal..... because I said that very thing (Och Aye) at a mock "Commonwealth Games" where I was leading the Scottish team - and our event was "tossing the k-bar".


God - some people need to get a life!
lol

Hell's teeth...:roll :mad:

[shakyle2906]

Do you know Karen....
I once had an official written complaint about me -(by a Scot!!) made to my principal..... because I said that very thing (Och Aye) at a mock "Commonwealth Games" where I was leading the Scottish team - and our event was "tossing the k-bar".


God - some people need to get a life!
lol



Some people seem to have nothing better to do, thats very sad!

Shaton
x

[Smiler]

Some people seem to have nothing better to do, thats very sad!

Shaton
x

Is that a typo or a feeling Sharon? :D

[shakyle2906]

Is that a typo or a feeling Sharon? :D

Hi Smiler..........

Prob bit of both!
was nearly 3am so please let me off.......................

xx

[Carol]

Is that a typo or a feeling Sharon? :D


:laugh:laugh:laugh
Made me spray my coffee!!!

[Carol]

Some people seem to have nothing better to do, thats very sad!

Shaton
x


Decile 10 school life....
You can't beat it.
lol
They were deadly serious though!
I wont go into what happened after we got the letter - but needless to say it involved a Friday afternoon and a couple of bottles of wine... lol

[peebles16]

Oh dearie me an over-sensitive Scot - bad combination :D Must have been missing their deep-fried mars bars and Irn Bru :)

I was once told off by a very posh headteacher at a training event I was running. She stated, in a very posh edinburgh accent, that she wasn't being told what to do by someone who couldn't pronounce her ts properly?! I'm from Glasgow we generally miss that letter out when talking very quickly :) Needless to say words were had - some folks just need to get a grip!!

Karenx

[shakyle2906]

:laugh:laugh:laugh
Made me spray my coffee!!!



OMG...............I still cant believe i put that, shows what its like 3am sleep deprived...............just bought some horlicks, if that wont work, think i will hit the bottle!!!!!!!!!!

Glad i made you all laugh, just wont live it down now!!:exit


Sharon

x (spelt right now!!)
xx