[tezzasaurus]

Hello everyone. Have really enjoyed reading these forums, and wondered if anyone can help me with a few queries:

1) I am a secondary History teacher in the UK, with 5 years teaching and middle management experience. I know that in New Zealand they teach Social Studies, and that it does not appear to be a shortage subject. Does anyone think that I might still be able to find a job in a reasonable school? :cheers

2) I know that all schools are different, and I am generalising here. But how does behaviour in NZ secondary schools compare to that in a 'typical' UK comprehensive. Eg. I teach at a school where teachers are sworn at regularly, and several staff have been assaulted. Getting pupils to be motivated with their work is a major headache, and spoon feeding is the norm. Are there any particular areas to avoid in NZ?

3) My fiancee is a primary teacher (not early years). Is there really a shortage of primary teachers as the immigration advice suggests? Have done lots of research, and there really is some conflicting advice.

4) Assuming we can find jobs, I have also read conflicting reports on whether the salary is enough. As a teaching couple, do you think we would cope financially? (We have simple tastes, and don't spend much over and above the essentials).

Sorry for all the questions, but any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

Tezzasaurus

[JandM]

Sorry, I don't know any answers, but welcome to the forum.:)

[dusk]

Hello, sorry I don't know anything about the education system either, there's a few teachers (and parents) about so you should get some more informative answers at some point :)

[lockstock]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I teach special ed kids in a school in Hamilton.
I'll try to answer as honestly as I can.
Experience and qualifications are taken into account when they assess your salary. The Masters dergree I decided not to finish a few years ago because is would have been 'worthless' as far as UK salaries is concerned, counts for quite a lot here. There was a hold up with my salary assessment (all the documentation was fine for NZQA and the Teachers Council and the Immigration people for PR - but not the little jobsworth in salary assessment so I had to wait for the container to arrive to get all the paperwork together again:roll ) Anyway, in the meantime I was on basic rate which is $27000 pa. Level 8 (Honours degree and PG Dip) starts at about $44000 before they take experience into account. You do the maths!! I can't say whether my salary will be enough because I don't know what it is yet. OH has 10hrs a weeks as a teacher aide and brings back $208 every two weeks. Oh yes, you get paid fortnightly which is great because you can budget more easily.

Schools vary greatly - as in the UK. I don't think a typical uk comp is a place where teachers get assaulted but I don't think you'll have any trouble finding a school with disaffected kids! My school is a tad 'difficult' but any violence tends to be between the kids rather than directed against the teachers. It's a very different atmosphere - a lot of anger from girls as well as boys. Having said that, once you connect with those kids you can see why they are angry.

Social Studies seems to be a bit of a grey area - it appears to be one of those subject areas where lots of people have a couple of classess here and there to fill up their timetable. It may be different in other schools though. However, there are vacancies for it. Brush up on your NZ history and geog though!

Yes there is a shortage of primary teachers - look on the vacancies section of the Education Gazette site and you will see for yourself. I'd put together a CV and a basic covering letter about how brilliant you are and tweak it according to the job you are applying for.


I hope I haven't painted too gloomy a picture. I love my job and the staff are brilliant but, as in the UK, that can change from school to school. After nearly 30 years of teaching I can honestly say I've never had such an amazing time in a school.

Good luck and PM me if you need anything more specific.

[willsken]

Hi Tezzasaurus

I agree that as with the UK you need to be a little careful where you get a job, there are schools here I wouldn't want to work in. I went from a secondary school in the UK that was very middle of the road to working in a very similar school here. You do get difficult, disaffected kids here but somehow the nicer kids more than make up for it. On the whole, in my experience most NZ kids I've met are a joy to teach! I enjoy teaching here far more than I did in the UK.

Not sure about social studies, don't think it's a shortage subject but there seems to be jobs advertised for it. Just a case of keeping an eye on the ed gazette.

Salary! As with Lockstock sorting it out at the beginning was a nightmare!! The money is OK. On 7 years experience I was at the top of the scale which is around $60,000. Plus as head of Dept I had about $9000 more. The rates have just gone up as well.

http://www.ppta.org.nz/internal.asp?CategoryID=100600&SubCatID=100601&SubCat1ID=100605#4.1

[tezzasaurus]

Willsken and Lockstock

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my posting so fully and honestly. The NZQA certainly do seem to be a bit of a hurdle. Have got all of my certificates, transcripts, and letters ready to send to them, so we'll see how it goes.

What's really great to hear is that, despite some problems, you do seem to enjoy your teaching in NZ....which is promising. I am dedicated, but I have lost some of that enjoyment in the UK (or maybe I'm suffering from the dreaded five year itch). The general feeling amongst UK teachers and the unions is that schools are becoming increasingly difficult in terms of behaviour, whilst demands for results/value added are greater. Teachers being told to 'F*** off' is a daily event - no exaggeration.

My fiancee and I are saving up to try and visit NZ this August (failing that next year), so we will try and get into some NZ schools to get a feel for it all.

Point taken about brushing up on my NZ history - although its not so much brushing up as starting from scratch.

Thanks to everyone for welcoming me to the forum.:clap

[lockstock]

Teachers being told to 'F*** off' is a daily event - no exaggeration.



Erm...how about every other sentence:laugh And that's just the parents!

[Carol]

Erm...how about every other sentence:laugh And that's just the parents!


Do you mean here and now Lockstock?
If so - that is about as far removed as its possible to be from my own experiences in schools in NZ

However....it was an everyday occurance in my first ever teaching position - 16 years ago in a PRIMARY school in the UK!
I can only imagine what those parents are doing now.:mad:
I doubt they are living here in NZ though!
:nice1

[lockstock]

Here in NZ but a bit of a flippant comment i admit. As in the UK there's an element in society whose vocabulary is seriously lacking and there's only a limited number of words which can express how they are feeling - the f word being the principle one in current usage. It's rarely directed in anger - it just pops into everyday conversations. Trouble is, very few people can see past the words (especially school teachers) and kids are punished for swearing without anyone really looking for or listening to what they are really trying to communicate to us. And that's a world wide problem.

Don't forget I work with kids who are disaffected and angry at a world they don't understand and which doesn't understand them. There are no doubt lovely comfortable schools in NZ where teachers can teach their subjects unhindered by kids with serious social issues and appalling family backgrounds -same as the UK.

[tezzasaurus]

You are quite right Lockstock.

I am certainly not trying to criticise those pupils who have genuine emotional/behavioural needs, and/or a limited vocabulary. Nor am I implying that I wouldn't expect to teach such pupils in NZ. I appreciate that swearing in those cases is peripheral.

Rather, my concern in the UK is the number of pupils without any such needs, who just feel it is acceptable to be disrespectful, or swear or be aggressive with teachers. I work at a fairly typical, small comprehensive, where behaviour is generally ok. But I still get sworn at (less so than some other staff who really seem to get it in the neck), and a good friend and colleague was pushed down the stairs at our school by a pupil who was just a stroppy madam. The girl wasn't even permanently excluded (despite a catalogue of violence), and my colleague left teaching. It's such a shame.

I don't expect NZ schools to be perfect - I suppose I just hope that in an 'average' school, the pupils are a bit more respectful and you can concentrate on the learning rather than crowd control. That would be a strong motivation to make the move to NZ, as I love teaching, but really feel that something is going badly wrong in UK schools and with our young people in general.

(Youth crime is a massive problem in the UK - I don't know if you are aware of this story, but in Lancashire last summer, a 19/20 year old girl was walking though a local park with her boyfriend. In a completely unprovoked attack, a gang of teenagers surrounded them, pushed her to the floor and kicked her to death. They stamped on the poor girl so hard they left boot marks on her face. The boyfriend tried to protect her but was left with serious brain damage. The case is now at trial - the thugs who did this said they attacked her because she was dressed as a goth). It's all very scary.

Anyway, many of the posts have seemed really positive re teaching in NZ, so that's really great. Thanks for all your advice folks. :clap

[napiers]

Reading all your comments with interest. I am a primary school teacher with almost 8 years experience who will be moving to NZ end of this year or very early next. I currently hold a TLR post within school - does anyone know whether this additional responsibility counts towards assessing salary? I am about to the process of NZQA assessing my qualifications - any hints and tips and once that's all done (hopefully without any problems) are there other things I need to do? I know I need to register as a teacher. Thanks.

Tamzin

[Carey]

Yes register with the Teachers Council then start applying. Although it appears that there are many vacancies listed on the Ed. Gazette, there do seem to be enough NZ'ers to fill them. The agents I have spoken to suggest Auckland is the place where it is likely an over-seas applicant will get their first job. The ratio of teachers to students is changing from 1:23 to 1:18 so in theory that should result in more jobs.

Good luck!

[willsken]

Don't forget I work with kids who are disaffected and angry at a world they don't understand and which doesn't understand them. There are no doubt lovely comfortable schools in NZ where teachers can teach their subjects unhindered by kids with serious social issues and appalling family backgrounds -same as the UK.

I certainly don't work at a lovely comfortable school here and I would never expect a pupil to use the F work in a conversation with me. On the very rare occasions it's happened, they were pretty shamefaced about it when I corrected them. As you point out you work with kids who are disaffected and angry at the world and when you do that, bad language is par for the course. Not considered normal behavior in schools here in any way, shape or form. :)


kids with serious social issues and appalling family backgrounds -same as the UK.

Totally agree that kids like this exist here but I see far less evidence in NZ of the generally bad, no, disgusting behavior from kids who should know better, than I saw in the UK.

[Susan&Dennis]

You all have my full attention! I teach in the Southern U.S., and from this forum I see that teaching in the US seems eerily comparable to situations worldwide...the planet is reeling with social and economic problems that never skip a day, even when kids do. I wish us all luck in finding a place where we can make a positive difference.
Susan

[lockstock]

[QUOTE=willsken;193390] I would never expect a pupil to use the F work in a conversation with me. On the very rare occasions it's happened, they were pretty shamefaced about it when I corrected them... Not considered normal behavior in schools here in any way, shape or form. :)


I don't expect anyone to student to use the F word in front of me either - and I do let them know it's unnacceptable. However, as happens the UK, that kind of language is part of their daily lives at home and amongst peers so, whilst it shouldn't be tolerated, I agree, sometimes the focus of dealing with their issues shouldn't be clouded by a few words they probably don't even realised they have said. And it's not considered 'normal' behaviour anywhere - but it happens. Even here.

[willsken]

I don't expect anyone to student to use the F word in front of me either - and I do let them know it's unnacceptable. However, as happens the UK, that kind of language is part of their daily lives at home and amongst peers so, whilst it shouldn't be tolerated, I agree, sometimes the focus of dealing with their issues shouldn't be clouded by a few words they probably don't even realised they have said. And it's not considered 'normal' behaviour anywhere - but it happens. Even here.

I totally agree, when you are working with certain kids, the use of bad language is the least of your problems. I know when I worked in a special unit in the UK for 4 years, 13 YO kids would swear and smoke and none of the staff batted an eyelid. The point of this is the OP was comparing a normal secondary school and I don't think the like for like is any comparison. I find pupil behavior generally, much better, more courteous and polite than the kids in the UK. I don't think at any time I've said NZ schools don't have issues with swearing. I just don't agree that a normal classroom teacher, in the vast majority of NZ schools, will have to put up with people swearing at them on a daily basis. :nice1

[lockstock]

I just don't agree that a normal classroom teacher, in the vast majority of NZ schools, will have to put up with people swearing at them on a daily basis. :nice1


Nope - ditto:cool: And, on a general note to sum up, I wouldn't swap my job here for any I had in the UK (and I worked with great kids and staff over there). I love the comments the kids make about my accent - I haven't got the heart to tell them I'm not the one with the accent, they are!!!:D

[willsken]

I love the comments the kids make about my accent - I haven't got the heart to tell them I'm not the one with th accent, they are!!!:D

:D :D

[forstalls]

I'm going to jump onto the end of this thread as well, but from a different angle.
I currently teach further education (16+ ecology and animal studies) and am due to complete my PGCE next year.
Every post I've seen so far has related to primary/secondary schools, has anyone emigrated and been in FE?
I admit I'm a bit specialised in the areas I teach but feel I could broaden out over time....