[boatieman]

Hi everyone,

Last weekend I had to attend a conference in Christchurch when I met several interesting people. Many of which are lecturers in Auckland. The topic of the exodus of kiwis from NZ entered the discussion. I said that I had read in the Herald that roughly 650 kiwis were leaving NZ per week. I was quickly corrected that this was a “government figure”. The consensus was that the true level of dissatisfied New Zealanders leaving was much higher than reported. The main areas of dissatisfaction being low wages and high taxation. The people that I was speaking to were very concerned as the skills shortage is growing rapidly.
They foresaw that NZ would slacken its entry requirements, to try and reduce the skills shortage.

Then the discussion turned to UK immigrants and it was suggested that large proportion returned to the UK, mainly for the same financial reasons, and a smaller element returned for family reasons. It is likely that some people would give it a go for up to 3 years, after which the economic restraints would become too much with regard to balancing the income and out goings.

Apparently this is the subject of an ongoing research project.

Unfortunately, I have trawled the net to find further figures on the level of immigrant return, but I have not come up with much of value.

Has anyone else found any interesting figures that vary widely with the government figures and the rate of return of UK immigrants?

Incidently, a friend of mine who carries out feasibility studies for businesses, as regards their relocation, he hit me with the fact that only 5% of the population in the Tauranga area earn more than $50,000. A fact that I find unnerving!

[zardell]

I used to live near Tauranga.

It was well known by it's nickname of '$10 Tauranaga' which related to the hourly rate of pay the town was infamous for paying in past years.

Having said that, last year, my hubby, a tradesman, was offered positions in Tauranga that paid a lot more than that, so maybe he would have fallen into the 5% category to which you refer.

I have to say though that 5% seems to me to be a very low percentage, but if it is a correct figure (and I am not disbelieving you here) who can blame folks for moving on?

Julie

xx

[Moorf]

I guess my views are a bit simplistic but the way I see it is that the numbers leaving probably rise and fall with the economics of the countries people have moved from.

When we're in our own countries and things are tough financially, or even socially, we tend to look further afield. This also happens once that person has moved, and may trigger a move "back" or "onwards". I think people who have made the move to emigrate in the first place are possibly more likely to be the type who would up and move to improve their circumstances wherever they were and NZ is currently not what most would call a financially beneficial move? Just a thought...

Also, I think NZ is too often seen as being a better place financially without people considering that NZ, too, is affected by the world at large.

Lastly, god I'm rambling, not everyone comes to NZ to improve their finances, lifestyle etc. We didn't, we knew we were in for less money/disposable, old cars, no trips abroad for a while, etc - and I think many people emigrating here are aware of that and accept it as part of the package, their lives improving in other ways as they had intended, foreseen.

Slackening entry requirements? Not if my brother's recent deselection is anything to go by - 2 days after being selected a quals policy change rendered his wife's City and Guilds useless.. I don't think that's making it easier on people?

Interesting topic..... :yes

[granger]

Your post makes perfect sense to me Boatieman. Mind you, I also believe that John F.Kennedy was kidnapped by little green men and now lives on Venus with his friend Elvis Presley. :laugh

[IanW99]

...
Unfortunately, I have trawled the net to find further figures on the level of immigrant return, but I have not come up with much of value.

Has anyone else found any interesting figures that vary widely with the government figures and the rate of return of UK immigrants?
...


Here are some figures from this forums parent site:- Leaving New Zealand (http://www.emigratenz.org/leaving-New-Zealand.html) (but I guess they come from official figures)

Ian

[clg]

For what it is worth, the official figures come from the arrival/departure cards you fill out on a plane or boat before arriving. While I am sure they are not perfect (a holliday may become a permenant move) they are reasonable I would say.

The skill shortage here is real though! I personally would like to see them let in more people so here is hoping.

[Alan]

If the UK was next to a country where they also spoke English as their first language, was only a short flight away and had many other similarities, then the tax was lower and wages higher, I think we all know there would be a minor stampede.

To me seeing this argument continually raised is a non argument, only very recently was the UK announced as having the largest 'brain drain' of any nation. Add to this the world is smaller place in terms of technology, travel etc then more people moving around is hardly surprising.

[CJ22]

If the UK was next to a country where they also spoke English as their first language, was only a short flight away and had many other similarities, then the tax was lower and wages higher, I think we all know there would be a minor stampede.

There is, it's called the Irish Republic, and has lower overall taxation and a higher degree of economic freedom than the UK. Which makes me wonder why no Brits want to go there. It's virtually as empty as NZ, and closer to home. And no visa hassles either. Ireland also has it's share of beautiful countryside, and the natives are friendly, especially if it's clear you plan to stick around. NZ has the weather I suppose. It's hard to define why NZ is attractive and IRE is not.

Personally, I have no plans to come back to the UK. But I must admit that it's in the back of my mind that Aus becomes an option in 5 years time. Just, y'know, in case. But I suspect the NZ character will suit me more than those Aussie cheeky chappies :)

only very recently was the UK announced as having the largest 'brain drain' of any nation.

True, but it also has a very dense population, so will always be prone to such. We always have been a country of massive emmigration, not because it's so bad here, but simply because there's no room. One might argue it's in our nature, I also suspect.

[Alan]

Fair points and I think the weather is a big negative to Ireland, also not so sure about the friendly people bit as I have heard some nightmares from people traveling outside of Dublin.

With OZ we had considered it before, but the summer months in particular are brutally hot and just as bad as cold and rain IMO.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Alan beat me to it.....definitely think the weather is a big turn-off for Ireland. Plus there are many of us who need to live near a major centre due to work (there is no IT industry to speak of in the country/smaller towns). Plenty of work in Dublin but it is an expensive place to live. Here in NZ you can live in the middle of nowhere where house prices are alot cheaper and be in big city for work (Auckland/Wellington/Christchurch) in as little as 20 minutes....certainly not a long commute.

As for Oz...never been. Looks like somewhere we could enjoy doing some travelling one day, but summers would be far too hot for our personal taste too.

[Familyofmonkeys]

Fair points and I think the weather is a big negative to Ireland, also not so sure about the friendly people bit as I have heard some nightmares from people traveling outside of Dublin.

With OZ we had considered it before, but the summer months in particular are brutally hot and just as bad as cold and rain IMO.

Which part of Northants are you from Alan...we were from there too!

[Probyn]

Fair points and I think the weather is a big negative to Ireland, also not so sure about the friendly people bit as I have heard some nightmares from people traveling outside of Dublin.

With OZ we had considered it before, but the summer months in particular are brutally hot and just as bad as cold and rain IMO.

You could go to Melbourne :)

[Jenny & Mark]

Your post makes perfect sense to me Boatieman. Mind you, I also believe that John F.Kennedy was kidnapped by little green men and now lives on Venus with his friend Elvis Presley. :laugh

???? Elvis now lives in Greece and he's changed his name to Joe.

[boatieman]

Yeah but you also believed that Al Gore was telling the truth and not carrying out an agenda of mis information...right????

[Alan]

Which part of Northants are you from Alan...we were from there too!

We are living in Wootton just outside Northampton which is probably as good as it gets, but have also lived in Hartwell, Rushden and Towcester. What about yourself?

[Familyofmonkeys]

We are living in Wootton just outside Northampton which is probably as good as it gets, but have also lived in Hartwell, Rushden and Towcester. What about yourself?

Daventry....we were in the nice bit right on the NE edge of town :)