[Familyofmonkeys]

Following on from another thread (penguins etc) we have been wondering about a few things:confused:

How much exposure do kids just starting school (age 5 or 6) have with computers? Have the majority of kids has alot of exposure at home before starting school or is this the exception? We were quite horrified recently when a teacher was telling us that many 7 year olds are doing homework projects as Powerpoint presentations. OH in particular (he works in IT btw) feels this is not appropriate and far too young and that kids so young should not spend very much time on PC. I don't really have a strong opinion on this at the moment, more I have concerns. Obviously don't want kids to fall behind their peers in terms on IT skills, but also worry about potential damage to their eyesight, now link between short-sightedness and VDU use has been proven.

Our kids have had very little exposure of computers so far. We might occasionally sit them on our knee and show them stuff. Oldest 2 (nearly 5 and 3) can use a mouse and they understand that the keyboard has letters on it etc....but that is about it. I occasionally let oldest sit with me and play the postman pat game on Cbeebies website, or we look stuff up together when she wants to find out about things she is wondering about, but never ever by herself.

Are we worrying about nothing or do other people have similar concerns?

[peebles16]

Our eldest used have have IT sessions once a week at school in the UK and have to say he loved it. We let him use the computer at home but limited time to play the odd game etc. He really enjoys using it for searching and loves looking at Google Earth etc. He does have a computer in his class here in NZ and the usually have some time on it playing educational games etc so think it is used as a resource in the class. However, don't think he'll start getting IT lessons as such till a bit further up the school. I personally think it's a shame as he really enjoys it, has developed good skills in terms of searching, problem solving etc but he can still do some of that at home..

I do agree with your concerns over the length of time and exposure spent on PCs and certainly wouldn't expect powerpoint presentations for homework at his age :(

Karen

[kowhai]

I think your concerns are valid. Fortunately not all schools are pushing this. My children years 2 and 5 spend very little time on computers at school. ( and at home )

I have friends who complain that their children are not doing enough work on the school computers . They worry about their kids" falling behind" IT wise. Im of the opinion that the technology is constantly changing and becoming easier to use - so there is no need to at their young age. Heck it only took me two ticks to get the hang of our Mac !

One positive aspect of the technology is that each class has internet access. The teacher is able to project info onto a large projector screen. Quite swish. A fantastic resource.

[SharpBlade]

Hi there,
Although OH is in IT, our kids don't know much about computers. However, their school (a great great place) has a pool of laptops that get used by different classrooms everyday on rotation, and that's how they are learning the basics ! It is all integrated in the school program, i.e if they study statistics they also learn how to do graphs and that sort of things on computers. New technology is part of the curriculum but in a very " playfull" way. When our eldest started year 4 last year, we were told that he coud download his homework and email it to his teacher etc.. but there was no pressure at all. Eventually, he just stick to paper and pencil..
It seems that , just like for any other subjects, kids with more advanced abilities in IT will work on a different project than those who are still learning, it is the same with reading groups etc...
good luck, laura

[Tia Maria]

I would say about half the children in my son's class had used PCs frequently on starting, and half hadn't. Like Laura says it wasn't noticeable they just worked on different projects depending on their ability.

Our school has a system of using experts, children in the class that help other children with tasks. So there are reading experts, writing experts, IT experts etc, this is a good way of bringing the two levels closer together. Each classroom has 2 computers in but it wasn't till he was 5 1/2 that they were used on a regular basis.

They seem to use them for Maths quite a bit and were involved in World Maths Day (this was year 1, not new entrants). ( www.worldmathsday.com ).

I think you only need worry about PC usage if it takes them away from other activities. Watching TV and using the PC require children to sit looking forward with their eyes and heads, for extended periods of time, if this is not balanced with a healthy amount of other activities which require physical movement or for their eyes to track objects then both their eyesight and posture can suffer. In the same way that a child can get eye strain if they read too much, (because I'm sure you've all had that problem! :p ).

I would say the most important IT skill for your child to have, before starting school, is how to use the mouse after that I'm sure they will pick up whatever is necessary.

Cheers

Tia

[Carol]

hmmmm interesting responses here.....

I was an ICT lead teacher in the primary school I taught in last.
So I have quite definite opinions about the use of ICT in schools.


From my perspective........ I would say - the main thing to keep in mind is that "C" in the middle of the I and the T. And not to lose sight of it....
It doesnt stand for Communication for nothing.

That would be my main priority as a teacher - that a computer is used for accessing information and communicating ideas.

I also believe - it is a child's absolute right to have access to technology as a tool in their learning. And I hate to say it - but I mean starting from pre-school.

Because this involves a LOT of money in the way of buying equipment in the first place - and then support - both technically and professionally - for teachers, a clear ICT policy in the school is essential.

As is reflected in the Ministry of Educations document...
http://www.minedu.govt.nz/index.cfm?layout=document&documentid=10475&

which is a requirement for schools to follow...!

I dont mean just the use of Powerpoint etc - I'm talking a very wide spectrum of ICT - and in particular in primaries - the use of visual images using movie makers etc.

I actually got to the stage when I was teaching, that my digital camera had become an essential teaching tool in my classroom!

[thezorbster]

My daughter's in the new entrant class and they use computers quite regularly in class but mainly as a presentation/communication tool. They have a class blog (which is fantastic as it is allowing folks back home to see what she's getting up to at school) which is updated weekly with photos and news. They have done presentations of artwork, life cycle of butterflies, days out etc. They also have some educational stories/games on there which are used occasionally but do not form a major part of the class learning. They also use the pc to help present their work when their class takes assembly (each year takes it in turn). So, it is there and used regularly but not as a direct teaching tool for maths, English etc. She had no real exposure before starting school apart from sitting on our knee to look at photos, occasional kiddy sites etc.

[JandM]

As you may have noticed (!), I'm very much into computers, using them for aspects of my freelance work as well as for internet access (communication and research), and I've never had any problem learning to use new software when I need it. They are a wonderful tool. However, I was a teacher of the older generation, well into the classroom before PCs came on the scene, and I see with dismay some aspects of what was normal schooling in those days going down the plughole in certain schools, swept away by an over-emphasis on technology at too young an age.

In very broad terms, I've seen some children expected to run before they can walk, in that they're typing work into the computer when they can't yet write properly, still less spell. Spell check? - well, we all know artificial intelligence can frequently slip up on the complexities of homophones (hear/here, stare/stair etc.) and English grammar. To wield English properly, not least to know when the spell check is talking rubbish, a person needs to be taught it from the basics on, not pick it up on the run without understanding. And HANDwriting is a necessity for practical life, which has to be acquired as a physical skill, giving time to the doing of it.

Going briefly into another area - research. Yes, it's fantastic to have pages of information (and pictures) at the touch of a few keys, but YOUNGER children are likely to be overimpressed by the apparent perfection of what they call up. Many think a random cut-and-paste job of bits of other people's websites HAS to be better than what comes, maybe hesitantly, from their own efforts. (And I'm not even touching on how to discriminate between good and dubious information.) However, true learning has only happened when a person takes in information, thinks about it, relates it to what they know already, then, having processed it, speaks or writes it in their own way.

So, for me, there has to be plenty of room made in the school curriculum for the children to get and practice the primary communication skills, listening and speaking, reading and writing. Of course the availability of computers is great, and children need to know it's there, and the kind of things accessible through it, but the technology absolutely must not impede the learning that is the basis of the skills and abilities they'll need as they get older.

[JandM]

... (double posting removed)

[Tia Maria]

JandM, its interesting you should mention handwriting. My son, like many 5 year old boys, had pretty poor handwriting, (especially compared to the girls), however, he had a very vivid imagination and was very good at constructing stories. As a result the teacher suggested he write his story on the computer, (no spell check for 5 year olds), which came out so well that he got a head teacher's award for it.

So with the computer he was able to get recognition for his English language ability that had previously been undiscovered as he'd struggled to write more than a sentence because he found handwriting so difficult.

Alongside this he was put into a special handwriting group and recently got to pick a 'prize' (a small notebook), for the ten stickers he'd achieved for good handwriting.

I think this is a great example of the right balance you were talking about, of using the computer as a tool but still concentrating on the basics.

Cheers

Tia

PS Goes off to use the spellchecker but takes care she doesn't change everything to American English! :p

[Carol]

the technology absolutely must not impede the learning that is the basis of the skills and abilities they'll need as they get older.

There is absolutely no doubt that the basics have to be in place.
And they are.
The "Key Competencies" which need to be assessed throughout all of the curriculum address this in a clear and sensible way.
I dont think anyone's asking students to "run before they can walk....." and to be honest - asking kids to type stuff into a computer that they can neither read or understand fully is quite simply an example of poor teaching and even worse - exceptionally bad management of limited "computer time"!

However....
I would just like to say - that I have used technology extremely successfully with children with "needs". Who do not have the "basics" in place -for whatever reason - but have managed to communicate their very capable understandings and intelligence through a different medium other than talking or writing.
The most amazing of these experiences for me personally - was the interpretation of a song by David Bowie - using imovie and producing what was in effect a music video.
What was remarkable was the level of comprehension (reading?) shown of the lyrics of the song, the incredible timing (maths?) shown in the changing of clips etc but more important than any of that - the pride expressed in an wonderful piece of work by an autistc kid who had previously struggled to even initiate a sentence.
He has since gone on to write his own songs and is now playing (5 years on) in his own band.

As an aside - I DO however believe that the teaching of handwriting in New Zealand is at best poor. It hasn't changed for years - and was the only area in which my 7 year old steadily went backwards in when we arrived here 12 years ago.
And at the time....not a computer in sight!

[dilanium]

As one of the first generation to truly grow up on computers (though I didn't touch one in school until 7th grade), I would like to say that playing on the computer when you are young (I remember playing a game called facemaker when I was 3 or 4) isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as it is balanced with other activities.

I feel that the way my parents set up the rules in my household were appropriate. 1 hour of video games (console or computer) per day, unless it was a school day which meant no games whatsoever. My mother also had a habit of kicking us outside when it was nice regardless of whether we'd had our hour for that day.

Because of my early adoption to using computers, I have found it very easy to adapt to new programs, and have become the local tach person at work. They ask me to fix it before calling IT for the program we use. :laugh

I can see how too much use of the computer could lead to issues, just as too many video games led to problems for people in my generation. However I think learning to use the mouse (which as I did on Windows 3.0) by playing various games such as ski free and solitaire was a very useful skill to have. I see my coworkers still struggling with it at times (which I admit, is hard for me to comprehend).

[JandM]

I dont think anyone's asking students to "run before they can walk....." and to be honest - asking kids to type stuff into a computer that they can neither read or understand fully is quite simply an example of poor teaching and even worse - exceptionally bad management of limited "computer time"!

Carol, don't think I'm attacking ALL use of computers in school, or the good practice you no doubt oversee/oversaw. What I was talking about was bad practice that I have personally seen in some classrooms (so some people ARE asking students to 'run before they can walk'), and that experience has led me to have a feeling of caution about what can happen.

As I started out by saying, I find the computer a fantastic tool: what's needed in introducing it into children's lives is balance, as others have said, so it is seen as having its place, alongside all the other worthwhile things they need to know how to do.

[Carol]

Yep you are right.... balance is good.

Now .... I REALLY need to get off here and get on with my work!
lol :laugh

[richard]

...

How much exposure do kids just starting school (age 5 or 6) have with computers? Have the majority of kids has alot of exposure at home before starting school or is this the exception?

Both my kids had laptops at that age. They were my old work cast offs so nothing flash but they used them to run educational games such as the Learning Land series.

[shakyle2906]

HI

Our son is 5.5 and never used computers in the UK.

Since being in NZ, he has an hour or so, once a week, in school on the computer, learning them the basics really. They also encouraged them to use the computer when he attended the Learning Centre before full time school.

We occasionally let him have an hour on the Cbeebies website, where he cn get up to no harm and one of us is always back and forth making sure he is ok.

He tells me that they are also allowed to use the laptop in the mornings before the school bell goes, as long as they have helped take the chairs down off the tables!! They play simple games on them, counting, etc.

Sharon