[Carol]

dont know if it makes you feel better, but hub graduated top of class bartlett school of arch, has had 2 major double pages spreads in national papers by uk bigggests critics in less than a year (favourable project reviews) and a model going on display in the gherkin that the planning office considers one of the best redevelopment schemes of all time - and he'll have to requalify.


and you still want to come!!!!

I think I'd be finding some quiet spot in Europe myself.........
And that from someone who has lived here for 9 years!

[leslie]

everything we read about nz just screams 'opportunity'. the only thing that can go wrong is finding kiwis are as entrenched as brits and happy pounding the same old bit of broken pavement.

incidently, the new much-lauded regeneration scheme to which i refered (which moved the practice to the mayors list of chosen arch's) is going to expensive appeal because a no-name councillor objected on behalf of the tenant in some tiny, obscure basement flat down the street. apparently they will lose their hawaiian outlook (in scruffy bermondsey). its going to cost taxpayers a fortune and slow a process that will dramatically raise values in the entire area, reduce crime etc. the scheme also has an unusually high level of key worker homes etc. part of why english hub's had enough.

[Carol]

I remember reading about "the huge amount of money spent on kids in education" before we came here and thought it must be THE most amazing place for kids to grow up.

Well yes - it sure is a fabulous place for the kids......actually to remain kids and gradually grow up in.
But what I read about - and what actually happens is nothing alike.
Yes the opportunities are here if you know where to look.
And equally so - (just like in the UK) there is always someone waiting to kick you in the head while you're down.

It is that side of NZ life I find so hard - things I never really expected to happen.

[Diny]

It is that side of NZ life I find so hard - things I never really expected to happen.

Too true Carol. Not wanting to start any kind of 'hot potato' here. But - having had a close association with NZ for the last 17 years I sometimes find that certain opinions and expectations of a few folks are so way off the mark of reality.

But on the other hand, none of us are going to concentrate too much on the down side of things ........ it's having the ability to hit the happy balance of awareness regarding the good/bad side of NZ (or anywhere in the world).

Just my opinion anyway .... not wanting to be contraversial and certainly don't mean to offend.

Diny
:nice1

[kiwidebs]

Funnily enough this is one of those things that has always amused me as a Kiwi in the UK. The picture most people seem to have of NZ either as an extension of Aus or as some sort of Utopia. I try to correct these assumptions and explain that NZ is a country with its own set of problems, people aren't perfect and the govt certainly isn't. The weather is not like the Gold Coast of Australia and there is a good reason why NZ is such a green country (its because of the rain). But it also has its good points - for me I'm moving to be closer to my family and to bring my kids up in a much more outdoorsy environment (much more than they'd get in London anyway). I'm not sure whether I would choose to pick up my whole family and move so far away if all my family were in the UK - I certainly admire those of you who choose to do so. Living a long way from support systems is tough - I know cos I've done it here in the UK (my family's in NZ, hubby's family is five hours away).
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth.

Debs

[Diny]

I'm not sure whether I would choose to pick up my whole family and move so far away if all my family were in the UK

To be honest .... If I wasn't married to a Kiwi I can't honestly say I'd ever contemplate moving to NZ. I must be in the minority, but I love England - always have and always will - I know that there's a huge bunch of problems that exist here, but I am lucky enough not to have to live in a city centre. I'm not burying my head in the sand, I'm fully aware of what's happening, but thankfully where I live we're not too bad at all.

However, I've spent alot of time in NZ, I agree that it's a beautiful country and it does offer a more 'yesteryear' lifestyle for us as a family. I'm happy to move there - in fact I'm looking forward to it very much. However, I'm very aware that 'per capita' it has the same problems as everywhere else in the world.


the only thing that can go wrong is finding kiwis are as entrenched as brits

I'd love you to meet my inlaws !!!!!! :eek :laugh

We all have our own reasons for moving - and who can blame any of us for looking at the whole scenario with a 'glass half full' kind of attitude?

Good luck to us all - that's what I say.

Diny

[leslie]

utopia exists nought but in lit.

the great thing about life is that in a decent society you can focus on the good things and focus on what it is you want to get out of it and what you offer to your fellow communal beings. it doesn't mean crap non-existent it just means you have better balance. democracy is about being able to make choices and have input in your destiny. its kinda nice...

oz - largely dry and arid, highly mineralised. wines sharp and dry.
nz - rainy and lush. wines rounded and fruity.

at the end of the day you decide which one to buy.

[Carol]

utopia exists nought but in lit.

the great thing about life is that in a decent society you can focus on the good things and focus on what it is you want to get out of it and what you offer to your fellow communal beings. it doesn't mean crap non-existent it just means you have better balance. democracy is about being able to make choices and have input in your destiny. its kinda nice...

oz - largely dry and arid, highly mineralised. wines sharp and dry.
nz - rainy and lush. wines rounded and fruity.

at the end of the day you decide which one to buy.


very true.
Which is why I think I find living here such a struggle sometimes -
because my own personal balance is skewed........the huge void in my life here is lack of family.
It can never be filled and as such my balance will never be quite right.

That said.......yes - I did choose my own destiny.

And as long as we have the money to buy the wine I should be OK.......perhaps.

[leslie]

as i age i more appreciate the up side of hugely disfunc brit family rearing. its freedom - the further from family the better the air. as for the down side - missing people - dont really know it all that well as my good friends have always been around the world etc and when we meet its like no time has passed.

my postings are all skewed as i cannot imagine not doing something because i'd miss someone.

[Diny]

hugely disfunc brit family rearing

For no other reason than simply a 'matter of interest' - why do you think this?

Diny

[leslie]

when you abandon children in british boarding schools when they are barely walking they dont acquire the finer points of emotional life. when you send daughters to fashionable 'finishing schools for affluent young gentlewomen' notoriously referred to as borstals in quiet conversation, it doesn't make them better human beings. it sure doesn't teach parenting skills. and, when everyone maintains that much-lauded stiff upper lip rather than admitting things could be better, rather than trying to make things work better, well, its doomed. when my great grandfather died a journalist remarking his life said the most unusual thing about him, of all things about him, was that noone had EVER seen him smile. when the offspring moved afar to maintain their badly skewed victorian values that did so much harm in the uk, do you think they got it right? with the v brit penchant for repetition in mind, do you think anyone has changed a hair to this day?

we had a victorian upbringing in 60's, 70's, 80's canada. in a way a crowning achievement for my parents - how they managed i still dont know. while not entirely fond of canada i am grateful to it for providing me with some of the building blocks/ structure/ opportunity there was no way i'd have access to via family. i am also inherently grateful for not having grown up in the uk where we simply would not have had the moderating influence of then canadian society. i am amazed brit kids do as well as they do with what they have in the way of childhood...

[Moorf]

I'd have to disagree re boarding schools.. I went from age 10 to 18 and I feel it made me the independent, confident person I am today... if anything it taught me emotion at a very early age and how to cope with it. It's what happened afterwards that made me a nutter :laugh

[Nicola]

Leslie I am not quite sure I understand your comments.

Firstly very few British children go to boarding or finishing school. Very few of them have a strict victorian upbringing.

Most kids up until quite recently had a lot of freedom as children. Unfortunatly that has changed for the majority now. I am just glad we still live in a part of the country where my kids can wander about freely and in safety. They have tons of freedom, which can bring its own problems.

Sorry if I have not picked up the point you are trying to get across correctly.

[leslie]

moorf - you were TEN. big diff between 6 and 10. bet you went home/ spent time with family in the holidays? weekends?

we're thinking of sending 14 yr old to one so yes there are benefits. the point is that there is a huge diff between doing it for parental needs and doing it for childs needs. its usually done for the first. its good that you loved it - 90% of the people i know who went were near devastated. an alarming number are already dead.

i used to wish my parents would send me - anything would have been an improvement. theres irony.

[leslie]

apparently point not clear. i referred to my family as my orig comment referred to it thus diny's point, i assumed, also did. i believe that at the time my great gran was in the 'borstal' most children in the uk were only recently out of the mines. the lucky ones worked for people like my unsmiling great-g who allowed them all of 1 day hols per month. those who didn't work didn't eat. as for private school/ boarding - it remains the great ambition of a growing slice of parents (not just in the uk). fact. british childhood, compared with experience of similar economies, is poor. fact. even uk infant mortality rates are appalling, though better than the documented 50% rates of 100 years ago. these are 'modern' time, bless.

the way some of you go on makes me think that everywhere north of london must be great. all those goverment/ eu regeneration schemes in the north must be totally unecessary? they must have rigged britains appalling teen preg rates and lets not start with youth rape stats or asbo's. as for high-unemployment, its never been positively linked to good parenting and happy childhood so am i to assume by some miracle northern kids are well-served despite the obvious? i've lived in hampshire so i know whats up behind those emerald hedges. but maybe i just watch too much bbc and we all know about the bbc...

maybe its time we amend course and move north. clearly we haven't done our research.

has anyone in the uk at present grown up anywhere other than the uk or am i the only one flying the flag of 'yes, minister, there is another way and its better"?

i'm going to admire the new front door.

[Graham Barnes]

Hi all,

Noted the above discussion on boarding schools with interest...not least because I went to one (13-18), and have taught in a total of three over my 12 year teaching career. This is not meant as a sales pitch for boarding, but a few of the earlier comments mirror the sort of stereotypical statements which really get my blood boiling...
So here goes;

1. Lesli is correct in that going at 6/7 is completely different to 12/13. But most at early ages just stay for one night every now and again, or go home every weekend (i.e. far more flexible). By 13/14, many (NOT ALL!!) children are ready to spread their wings and be given more independence. Thus going to a boarding school can benefit both children and parents.
2. Very few children nowadays 'get sent' to boarding school-most of them are actively involved in the choice of one. 'Abandoning'... :no
3. Boarding schools today are VERY different places to those in 1960s/1970s. I will fully accept that there was some shocking practice 25+ years ago, but this is a completely outdated perception. They are much happier places-any which did not change, would have gone out of business years ago.
4. Most childen go to a boarding school within 1-2 hours driving from home-which means that they usually see their parents over other weekend or so. The old 'here you are, see you when you're 18' is completely out of date.
Parents are not abdigating their parental responsibilities at all-boarding schools are very expensive places, and most families require two incomes (and fewer holidays, cars etc) to be able to afford them.
ALthough many people undoubtedly hated boarding schools in the past (and some will still do now!), from my experience, they are far fewer.
As well as providing all sorts of activities which you just don't get at day schools, they develop self-confidence, self-responsibility and teach children how to live within a community and consider each other. If only all children were like that...
If a growing slice of the country wishes to use boarding schools, they must be doing something right!

PS How did a thread on $55,000 get onto this topic??

[Nicola]

Sorry Leslie I must be picking you up all wrong, I am sure it is my understanding not your post.

I agree the statistics are awful in this country and yes victorian attitudes and the backlash against such attitudes are a lot to blame.

I do not speak for all of the North of England. We live right on the border and in a very rural area. No things are not perfect here. The point I was trying to make was that I can allow the kids more freedom to roam and get into muddy mischief. But we do have our problems as well. I would not advise anyone to move here, we both have to do a 2hr each way commute to get to work in Edinburgh, public transport to rural areas is almost non existant, our local school will be closed in the next couple of months, it is always freezing (if the temperature gets above 16 degrees in the summer that is a hot day!)

I think the point I am trying to make is that some kids in the UK do have a good childhood. Just as some kids in other countries do have a miserable childhood. As parents we have a lot of responsiblity for giving our kids the oppertunities they deserve.

I am not defending all of the UK just saying there are good things and bad things everywhere.

The reason we want to emmigrate to NZ is because we want to live in NZ not because we want to leave the UK.

Nicola

[Moorf]

I removed my post as it was way of topic... sorry, got carried away.

[Diny]

the way some of you go on makes me think that everywhere north of london must be great

Not at all .... it's just that some people 'go on' making sweeping statements that often bare no resemblence to everyday reality. Problems exist - nobody can debate that. But it's obvious that life in a rural, agricultural hamlet is going to be way different to living in the middle of London. Fact.

Alot of us have travelled and lived in other countries, and seen for ourselves what the world has to offer. People living north of London aren't so insular and suffering from tunnel vision as you city folk may think.

While you admire your front door I'll go and pick the hayseeds out of my homespun Jacob sheepswool ganzy and shoo away that darn magpie - he's bad luck you know. :nice1

[leslie]

i always enjoy the differing views of the educators from those of the educatees. the educators do tend toward ulimate knowledge until something goes wrong, then they have no idea! i am sure every teacher on this forum is exemplary and will be remembered as one of the v few who mattered when their former students recall those early formative years

the appalling conditions at bs's vs. amentities offered, and in uk loss of gov't bursaries, mean schools are now pulling up their putrid mustard coloured socks to attract the mid income parent. as its hard sell polishing the woodwork is requisite and they are definately better than 10 years ago and yes, for some teens i believe hogwarts IS the best possible situ. i'm going to be kind and leave alone the statement that brit kiddies like to be sent away from their homes.

can never remember what people have said when i try to comment so if i've missed something blame it on my thyroid or a lack of debate skills/ personal character.

there are 3 things about the uk that makes me feel it will never improve however much it may need. one, everyone gets defensive over every last issue when sometimes they need to take a good hard look and reject/ learn. two, everyone thinks they have to please everyone - which is so unsophisticated its almost funny - so they please noone (see gov't legislation - the mothership). three, noone is responsible for anything, their childs diet/ school attendance, their littering, getting smashed in the town centre, robbing old ladies for their fish & chips, actually doing their job as opposed to just being paid for showing up... oh and lucky four, everyone is omniscient yet the lack of professionalism is legendary.

i've ignored the previous edu thread because i knew that in reading it i would probably want to crush all and sundry under my heel. and, as previous notoriously outspoken employer said, i am the only women he knows, wife aside, who has the useful ability to reduce even the nastiest piece of rubbish to a wobbling pile of repentance. since that conversation i've felt hampered by my gift but with the passge of time am starting to like it again... think of me as the tri-headed dog at hogwarts. only meaner and with potentially more influence on the curiculem.

as for generalising - unless it is based on very limited, misleading info and experience it is an acquired skill/ ability not as some forummers believe, an inadequacy. most of the progression in life is the consequence of it. someone had to have generalised in some way for you to have every product or service you use in a day. they had to observe and note something!!! pls note i do not advise jimmy choo on the best way to craft a 4 foot spike heel. i do not tell ellen macarthur how to circumnavigate the globe wearing nothing but a bikini while smoking cigars and drinking champagne. and, while at a pretentious business school i wrinkled a few brows by refusing to devote my attention to forecasting as for the most part i am unable to predict the machinations of mother nature and the stock market. but, if you want to talk about something i have spent 30+ years building a library of information on, you risk the heel.

i do enjoy this forum, even the things i do not comprehend and the minds which boggle, but today it has been invaluable. i have been struggling with my options in nz/ the direction i want to take and thanks to this forum i had a conversation with hub that made it absolutely clear. suddenly i KNOW what the right thing is and i figured it out thanks to you/ the forum. that is pretty great and just goes to show that if you try/ expose yourself to something new you might find answers in peculiar places. now i understand what all those people were doing when they used to come off-load their problms/ ideas at the bar... and possibly this is why people move to lands far away even when they dont fully comprehend why.

for those of you who are wondering, we designed it and the door is absolutely great. like the avareg boarding school, its a huge improvement on what was acceptable 30 odd years ago!









:roll: :roll:

[Diny]

Hhmmmnnn .... interesting concept :?

It's funny how opinions can differ to such extremes. Some may think that making such generalisations as the following is an aquired skill.


everyone gets defensive over every last issue when sometimes they need to take a good hard look and reject/ learn.

and


everyone thinks they have to please everyone - which is so unsophisticated its almost funny

and


noone is responsible for anything, their childs diet/ school attendance, their littering, getting smashed in the town centre, robbing old ladies for their fish & chips, actually doing their job as opposed to just being paid for showing up..

and



everyone is omniscient yet the lack of professionalism is legendary

Others may think it's a sign of naivety, or maybe



a lack of debate skills/ personal character

Who knows ........ and who really cares?

Diny

[kiwidollie]

Diny :clap



Leslie :eek I must be a bit thick because I can't follow most of what you post.

[Timbo]

You are certainly NOT alone in that one kiwidollie.

By the way. could we possibly get back to topic at some point....please.

[veronica]

Is Cavens $55k going to be enough. Anyone able to set up an anon. poll asking people already in NZ to post joint family incomes.

[jo b]

Jeezee Louise,

I feel like I am going to commit harikari,

After ready SEVEN pages I still don't know if we could live off $55nzd

:roll:

Jo

[Moorf]

Back on track... I think the first question I would ask yourself is how much will your mortgage repayments be.. you could certainly live on $55k with NO mortgage, but if you have a $200K + mortgage it's gonna be tough.

[Carol]

I think the moral of this thread is......

Dont ever assume that just because you've had bad experiences you should conclude everyone else has had the same.





By which I mean of course ;)
- we lived on $55k when we first got here and found it very very hard (and just had TWO kids at the time).
But not everyone will........it just depends on how you live and percieve things.

Isnt it?! :nice1

[Diny]

We've decided to pay everything (well, as much as possible) - with cash. At the moment PB and I hardly ever have any more than a bit of loose change in our pockets. I pay for everything on my debit card. Have been known to use the credit card on the odd occasion too :no

We hope that this will enable us to keep a better track of our finances. We are hopeless at the moment, wouldn't have a clue how much is in our everyday current account. It's a habit we must break.

We need to be more 'cash aware' to avoid going belly-up.

Diny

[miep]

To stay back on topic: We couldn't live off 55k. No mortgage would be a big help but even then we would have to be really careful..... Other than an expensive house we lead a fairly normal life. We have 2 old and cheap cars, no kids and no expensive hobbies. Even so our money seems to melt quietly away. Our biggest spend would be on food and booze.
We both are very fussy eaters and I like to cook so I buy good quality unprocessed food, no packets or tins and make most things from scratch. I buy what's in season and grow veggies in the garden and we still spend heaps of money on food (and did I mention booze??).
That said, 55k is a good salary by NZ standards so you should be able to live off that fairly comfortably, just don't ask me for advice.

:cheers Miep

[ruthyroo]

Ditto miep - except we probably also spend on wine and hobbies and holidays! And we succeed in getting through a joint income of about $100K - no kids - and it still doesn't feel like enough! Seriously though, having looked closely at our budget over the last 6 months, we might be able to scrape by on $55K with no mortgage / rent to pay, but it would be very very tight indeed, and not a lifestyle I would travel half way round the world to live.

[markkellaway]

I must say I find it interesting that some people say "yes, $55k will be fine" and others "no way!". I suppose it just goes to show that we won't know until we get there. I was thinking that, with rent, we could live of $4k a month, from this thread I'm in cloud cuckoo land.

If I took this thread to heart I'd be saying "no way, we are staying put", but do you know what, we'll still do it!!!

Mark. :P

[Moorf]

I do think that where you live will also determine how far your money goes.

Out of interest, what are the rates like in Welly and Auckland - here in Chch our rates will be $950 a year.

[miep]

We shall have to move to Chch!
We're paying $1213 this year (city and regional council) for a land value of 185k. Next year it will be more, higher rates calculated over the new valuation of 260k. And we're lucky, because our house insn't finished yet we don't have a code of compliance and therefore only pay rates over the land value. Don't know how long that will work but for now it suits us just fine!
Really should put that as a tip in the Build your own home thread shouldn't I ;)

:cheers Miep

[ateal]

My combined annual rates for a small one bedroom apartment in the Auckland CBD are NZ$1546.

I didn't realise until i got the bill that i had to pay two lots of rates. When the first came in i though great this is low and then the second came in and i thought damn. :?

Don't get me started on the Body Corporate charges. :eek

BTW. I don't live there, nor have i ever visited. It's just an investment property.

[Gran]

1500 seems dear for a 1 bed apartment, we complain about 1500 for a 3 bed house on the Hibiscus Coast. Body Corp charges are always a problem with apartments.

[Wannaway]

Getting back on to the subject of the post,

The biggest question is where do you want to live? This mya be dicated by job offers. In Auckland I would say you may struggle UNLESS and this is the second important bit, will you have to pay rent/mortgae out of salary or will you be bringing capital over from UK to pay house cost etc?
Rent/mortgage will be the biggest outgoing if you need to pay.

We are family of 4 and I cook our food ( and freeze) from scratch. We eat very little,if any, processed foods. I have a buf=dget for food of $200 a week out of which I also need to get nappies and baby wipes etc. I manage to get the shopping for between $150 and $200 every week. We then have $300 a week to cover going out and day to day expenses, haircuts,etc.

We manage but, even on a $100+k salary we are not quite living completely off earnings here. We do pay $650 p wk rent for a 4 bed house in a good area of the city and when we are ready to buy we will bring our capital over and use that so, if we have a mortgage here, it will be very small.When that finally happened we will be better off and will be able to live off earnings.

Considering the salaries here, it is quite shocking to see the size of electricity bills, rates etc. I think a lot of kiwis must be struggling. Our electric bill is around $80-100 per month. That is more than we were paying in UK for gas and electric and hubby is earning less than half what he earned there. The phone bill is $100 per month, again more than in the UK. We both wear contact lenses and both the lenses and fluids cost more than in UK. I am on point of ordering my new lenses from UK and have them sent over.

That said, we are happy here athough I do miss M&S and John Lewis - just decent shops really. I am hoping to do a trip home next year and I am sure we will bring home an extra suitcase.