[Tia Maria]

While everyone's thoughts are turning towards heating and insulating their home I though we could start a thread where people can recommend companies or products.

Also if you spot any good deals, whether it be on thermal lined curtains or pink batts then you can let everyone know.

Don't forget to say where the company/product is!

OK, I'll start, although I haven't used this company as my ceilings were too high (and floors too low), to use the product they have been recommended to me twice now so thought it might be useful for someone else.


Auckland - Complete Heat

Supply and fit Ducted Central Heating

www.completeheat.co.nz

I've also found them on No Cowboys:

www.nocowboys.co.nz/viewtradesman/Heating/Complete-Heat-Ltd-9809
Hope this is useful to someone!

Cheers

Tia

PS By the way we should probably but if a service or product has been less than satisfactory - in the politest possible way of course! :D

[andrewandjane]

timber worlds got deals on underfloor and eco insulation....
so thats the floors and roof covered

were looking at our options, but the hard bit seems to be getting something into the walls??

[thezorbster]

Airfoam for the walls! Have to say the house is toasty - it retains the heat so much better but the installation was a bit disastrous to put it mildly (see separate thread a few weeks ago). Their after service was superb though and friends who have had it have had no installation problems at all - think we were just unlucky.

[Tia Maria]

timber worlds got deals on underfloor and eco insulation....
so thats the floors and roof covered

were looking at our options, but the hard bit seems to be getting something into the walls??

Thanks I'd never heard of Timber World:

www.timbermart.co.nz

We've been wanting to get Expol for ages, my plan was to do it in the summer when I thought demand would be low and it would be easy to get someone to install it. Of course here we are in Autumn and I'll no doubt be queuing up with everyone else!

Don't suppose you remember the rough price do you?

Cheers

Tia

[suebeenz]

Thanks I'd never heard of Timber World:

www.timbermart.co.nz

We've been wanting to get Expol for ages, my plan was to do it in the summer when I thought demand would be low and it would be easy to get someone to install it. Of course here we are in Autumn and I'll no doubt be queuing up with everyone else!

Don't suppose you remember the rough price do you?

Cheers

Tia

Not sure if you're asking for Expol prices, but if so, here are some rough numbers. Think cost me about $8.80 per sq meter for materials, and installation prices can very from $5 -> $15 per sq meter. (or you could install yourself). You can look on expol's website for list of installers, but really just about anybody can do it, especially if you buy the expol yourself. From my comparison shopping Mit 10 had the best prices. You have to measure the width of your floor joists to figure out which one to get. If you buy the goods yourself, instead of letting installer buy it, will cost you between $60-$110 for delivery.

:cheers

[Tia Maria]

Thanks suebeenz - thats really helpful!

We won't attempt to install it ourselves, (not since that guy got electrocuted!), and its a pretty hard, yucky job as our villa only has a small crawl space underneath.

Cheers

Tia

[Nienke]

We had heatpumps installed, very pleased with the Airconditioning company (Auckland), www.heatpump.co.nz

[Steadybears]

We had Eastside Refridgerations was recommended to us by a formite and can say they have been very professional and quite reasonable.

We thought it would cost alot more than it has - so Im smiling.

Jayne

[Tia Maria]

We had Eastside Refridgerations was recommended to us by a formite and can say they have been very professional and quite reasonable.

We thought it would cost alot more than it has - so Im smiling.

Jayne

What do they do?

Cheers

Tia

[BigRod]

For those in the Welly region:
www.negawatt.co.nz
All types of energy efficiency products including underfloor insulation.


..... And Briscoes had all their thermal lined curtains on half price at the weekend (do they ever *not * have a sale?)

Rod

[Steadybears]

Hi Tia
They do heat pumps and air conditioning.

Jayne

[Alan]

Airfoam for the walls! Have to say the house is toasty - it retains the heat so much better but the installation was a bit disastrous to put it mildly (see separate thread a few weeks ago). Their after service was superb though and friends who have had it have had no installation problems at all - think we were just unlucky.

Would you mind giving some idea of the size of property and the cost?

[Tia Maria]

For underfloor insulation, I can recommend:


Auckland Area

Polyman Insulation

www.polyman.co.nz

Expol: $8.85 sqm
Installation: $6.50 sqm (awkward access)
Fixings: $65

Ours worked out at about 60 sqm, so about $1200 (incl GST)

A simple way to measure your underfloor area, is just to treat your house as a square, and either pace it out, or use a tape measure on 2 sides. then don't forget to remove the verandah area if you have one.

The company turned up on time, despite the atrocious weather, fitted it in under 3 hours and were very friendly.

You can't access all our house, so it is hard to estimate how much would be needed, so they deliberately quoted us for the maximum, then didn't charge us for what they didn't use.

The polystyrene product works in that it makes the radiators more efficient, so we don't need to have them on for as long to heat up a room. Which is particularly good for keeping the kids room warm overnight. :nice1

Cheers

Tia

[nippa&pippa]

'warm babies, healthy children project' (For christchurch only but your areas may have them, check with your council for details)

If you are on a low income, the warm babies etc project can help make your home warmer and drier.
* do you have a baby under one year od age or a preschooler with health problems?
* Is your house cold, damp or daughty?
* Are you on a low income?
If your are a home owner or in private rented accomodation, the warm babies healthy children project may be able to help you!

Here is website for futher info...www.cea.co.nz

[Tia Maria]

The Warehouse - One of those sausage things to stop draughts under the door/window - $10.

Cheers

Tia

[marcia]

Ok I'm sure you've all seen the advert for pink batts, where people in the houses all have a nice cuddly person all dressed in pink fluffy clothes attached to their bodies,

well begger the pink batts

If i can't have central heating

I want one of those pink fluffy people to be cuddling me all the time

- anyone know where to buy them?? :D

[dharder]

We have central heating!!!!! And what a difference that makes, wow. I'm so pleased, I almost cried when I came home tonight and it was toasty warm in the house. So worth it!

Getting the gas people (Vector? OnGas? don't know) to switch it on was a painful and lengthy process, but the gasfitters where great. It took them two days to put up a system like a UK one (gas heating, water in the radiators, the kind you have in the UK), in in our case, that was 10 radiators throughout the house.

Anyway. It is so great to have a warm house, and to be able to move around without having temperature drops of 7 degrees going from in front of the fire to the hallway...

Highly recommend it. Don't let anyone tell you 'it doesn't really get that cold in Auckland'. It does. :)
Daniela

[Milliemoo]

We have central heating!!!!! And what a difference that makes, wow. I'm so pleased, I almost cried when I came home tonight and it was toasty warm in the house. So worth it!

Getting the gas people (Vector? OnGas? don't know) to switch it on was a painful and lengthy process, but the gasfitters where great. It took them two days to put up a system like a UK one (gas heating, water in the radiators, the kind you have in the UK), in in our case, that was 10 radiators throughout the house.

Anyway. It is so great to have a warm house, and to be able to move around without having temperature drops of 7 degrees going from in front of the fire to the hallway...

Highly recommend it. Don't let anyone tell you 'it doesn't really get that cold in Auckland'. It does. :)
Daniela

oooohhhh more details please :D Who was the company? Costs?

Milliemoo

[pinkpiggy]

Yes Daniela, costs and name of company please. I'm sat in the office which is at the back of the house and I'm frozen. Been trying to finish a document that I have to show other users how to use tomorrow. :no

[kanatakiwi]

Yes Daniela, costs and name of company please. I'm sat in the office which is at the back of the house and I'm frozen. Been trying to finish a document that I have to show other users how to use tomorrow. :no

you have my complete sympathy pink piggy. I work two days a week in an office in the back of a house (one window, sun doesnt hit it until about 2 pm so even on a sunny day, I am freezing. my hands are so cold they hurt, and after lots of complaining they installed a heater but it only helps marginally, and my knees under the desk never warm up. I have bought the warmest pants I can find that might be suitable for office wear ;) and my next strategy is to take a blanket to work to put over my knees, but I have resisted this , trying to avoid the granny look :o

So I too would be very interested in what company and how much Daniela.!!

[dharder]

I'll get get details and let you know this afternoon. I know connecting the gas was free of charge, but I'll have a look at the standing charges and the system itself.

I had a shower this morning and threw my wet towel over the radiator after I was done, by the time I left home, it was dry. I'm really hoping we can reduce the dampness some as well, and my eldest (the one with Asthma) has told me he slept a lot better already.

Watch this space :)

Daniela

[Tia Maria]

bump. :)

Cheers

Tia

[vixxann]

bumping this up again :)

i'd love any infomation on ...

- Airfoam wall insulation
- Expol underfloor polystyrene
- draught proofing windows

etc etc

I'm freezing my bits off here tonight and there was ICE on my car this morning!!!!!

We are in the middle of extending our house, all the new part should be toasty warm with plenty of insulation but I'm now considering what we can do to bring the rest of our litte weatherboard 1940s house up to better insulating. We have a great woodburner that heats our house but need to keep hold of the heat a bit longer ;)

[Alan]

We are looking at all these things. First thing we need to do is mechanical extraction i.e. put extractor fans in bathrooms to get rid of moisture. Then we are putting in insulation, we will use Auckland Insulation who were very professional and were a lot less than others and will use polyester and fibreglass under the floors and in the roof respectively. We won't use Expol as the polystyrene reacts badly with plumbing and electric cables and can cause big problems.

With Airfoam I have seen some negatives around moisture being forced through walls to the point where they need re-plastering etc, so we won't do this. If we were that fussed I would re-jib and put batts behind instead.

Also looking at a heat exchanger system or HRV to remove moisture and in turn that will make the place easier to heat.

[Jo Jo]

We won't use Expol as the polystyrene reacts badly with plumbing and electric cables and can cause big problems.

Could you expand on this a bit more, please? We're considering installing Expol, and while I have heard about the precautions you must take with the wiring, I haven't heard about the plumbing, and am wondering now if I should look at alternatives.

Cheers.

[Alan]

The issue is the same i.e. polystyrene can react and cause certain plastic to degrade. Yes they use a certain wrap for the wiring etc to form a barrier but I don't want the thought that if at some time in the future it moved (stuff does) that I could end up with an electrical fire due to this.

[KiwiMel]

Houses are sooo cold here aye, well so everyone has been saying, even though I grew up here I am finding it freezing!
Getting an HRV installed in this Saturday. www.hrv.co.nz

[enb]

I've not bought from these guys specifically (http://www.latitudeinsulation.com/) but have used a very similar product and it definitely works both as an insulator but also as a noise dampener. It's also easy to install and as it's a 100% natural, there are no worries about needing to wear gloves, masks, etc, unless you're allergic to wool!

[mylesdw]

One thing I would consider with the 'wool' approach is whether you are installing the perfect living accommodation for mice. They don't seem to nest in pink batts but I wonder if they would find wool most attractive.

Just a thought.

[Chiba]

We have ducted air central heating in our rental and we all start sneezing within 5 minutes of it starting up. We'll be looking at a radiator based system if and when we buy.

[Jo Jo]

The issue is the same i.e. polystyrene can react and cause certain plastic to degrade. Yes they use a certain wrap for the wiring etc to form a barrier but I don't want the thought that if at some time in the future it moved (stuff does) that I could end up with an electrical fire due to this.

Thanks, Alan.

[KerryS]

Jojo I had something like pinkbatts with a tinfoil layer installed as underfloor insulation. I can't for the life of me recall what it was called though. It was jolly effective though - especially combined with blocking up the huge gaps between the floorboards...

[Jo Jo]

Thanks, Kerry. I think I know what you mean - I'll look into that as well.

[richard]

I just noticed an advert on TV for a company called Savona selling Central Heating - European Style.

Their web site has prices and they sell a kit set designed for a 200sqm house for $6,737

http://www.savona.co.nz/content.asp?function=prodlist&grpid=28050&xid=1&orgfn=kitset-heating-systems

[broadsword08]

if you have silaflex installed properly (you can do it yourself) its very good and much much much cheaper than foil lined pink batts (its basically just foil backed bitumen) - R value is not close of course but you cant necessarily make honey out of d*g **** in some of these older houses(!) and having a little ventilation is good anyhow.
dont forget the importance of thick black plastic on the ground to stop the moisture and cold coming up
we got both done for $300 (130sqm) last year under the govt funded clean heat clean air programme

[Alan]

Where in the country are you and who did you use???

[broadsword08]

http://www.energysmart.co.nz/

we are in west otago

we are CSC holders and that made the charge capped at $300

[vectis cple]

Just been chatting to a girl from NZ bank in Auckland, and there is a new grant being launched/started on 1st July for insulation or heating, its upto $1500 I think she said, so worth waiting a week or two to see the details before you commit to anything

Martin

[Super_BQ]

I'm curious where all this will go? So much is advertised for adding more and more insulation to NZ houses but nothing is addressed about condensation?

A good example is those plaster homes with the polystyrene cladding that makes the house pretty much air tight and finely insulated. No one considered where the water would go from the condensation in the walls? They say the leaky houses is a combination of water from exterior AND interior. But where does it come from inside the house? Hot showers and in the kitchen.

I know i've been blasted in the past but I still maintain it's not really beneficial to take an old home and try to make it as warm and efficienty as a newly built home with the latest standards.

If the case is where you really want a highly insulated home and air tight, then one must consider mechanical ventillation to control humidity and temperature. I do not believe heat pumps are effective at centrally heating the whole house, nor at controling humidity.

There's a high price for real home comfort. Compare the carbon foot print of a home in N. America vs. NZ and you will understand why they consume so much energy. But to achieve the same level of comfort in a house in NZ would consume even more energy. 20¢/kW/hr is shockingly expensive to 6¢/kW/hr over in Canada. Do people in NZ really need to be that green? If the need for electricity is minimal, one might consider living under a tree.

BQ

[Alan]

The leaky homes wasn't poor design, it was poor workmanship that caused the moisture to penetrate the barrier of the shell of the house.

You are correct though that many NZ homes do not have mechanical extraction, and this is something that makes a huge difference.

[broadsword08]

i hear you super bq... its a funny one really

i think the problem is that kiwis are only now really becoming enlightened around the whole healthy home thang... people talk about nz being like going back in time compared to the UK and it really really is true in this respect

i think that the govt are targeting insulation as its the easiest thing to affect that should have a really tangible benefit to health and attitudes

i agree that condensation is a big issue but until you can chuck enough heat at a house to get it dry without it all shooting out the top it is a secondary issue to insulation

hopefully by improving insulation people can be encouraged to make more of their home warm more of the time and in tandem with this ventilate more to ease condensation issues

for my ten cents these HRV, DVS, smart vent 'systems' are only any good in a home that is dry and capable of being heated effectively in the first place. HRV in particular was very badly mis-sold initially and I still hear horror storys of pushy salesmen promising things that these systems simply cannot deliver

i am constantly amazed by the number of kiwi friends of ours that show complete lack of understanding in these matters... like 'oh we always have mould in our cupboards'... well do you ventilate them? is there any heat anywhere near?!..... 'why are my windows are always mouldy?'... well do you wipe the condensation off or do you just leave it there all day long every day!?!?!?.... 'why have all my children got asthma?'...well hello... cold + damp = mould + respiratory problems!

i believe we are starting to see a dawning of understanding of these things here in nz but like all changes in thinking it will take time

i agree that no old home will ever be as energy efficient as a nice new one but replacing is simply not an option for the vast majority... where we are a new house will not be worth what it cost to build it!

as an electrician i spend a lot of time in other peoples homes and i am not kidding when i say that at least 80% of the homes i spend time in have sources of external water ingress, less than adequate insulation AND non existant or poor ventilation... you would be amazed how many kitchen and bathroom extractors i see venting directly into the attic and low and behold mr DVS or mr HRV has been kind enough to put his 'system' in the attic and do nothing about it!

we are applying to become registered installers in the EECA Energywise scheme as not only do we believe we can offer helpful advice and service to many but also because we believe the problem is so widespread it ought to be a good business opportunity too!

[victoria24]

we have dvs and is on constantly by design and not seen a speck of moisture anywhere.

[broadsword08]

how often is it 20 degrees warmer inside than outside up there with you?

[victoria24]

right now :D heatpump on 25 degrees

[broadsword08]

and how old is the house..."only any good in a home that is dry and capable of being heated effectively in the first place"
anyway i didnt think houses in the north island needed heating and that the weather up there was tropical ;o))

[Tia Maria]

bump :D

Cheers

Tia

[Tia Maria]

For radiators:

www.flboneheating.co.nz

Head Office in Hastings but also have people in Auckland and I assume elsewhere...or will travel.

Cheers

Tia

[mgbridges]

In relation to AirFoam you might be interested in this article I spotted in todays (22.07.10) NZ Herald online.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3943062/Report-faults-common-house-insulation

Interesting reading.

Anneliese

[lin]

Had pinkbatts fitted (ceiling & underfloor) about 3 weeks ago & haven't had the heatpump on at all since. The house is so toasty, its great. :D

[Super_BQ]

The house is so toasty, its great.

Fiberglass insulation, when installed properly, offers the best value compared to other high price insulations. The polyurethane spray foam (often used overseas) is touted to be far superior to fiberglass but may not be suitable for use in NZ climates or under the NZ building code. Then there's the wool insulation, recycled paper insulation, and several others in this class. When you compare all of them, it's hard to beat fiberglass.

[ralf-nz]

Had pinkbatts fitted (ceiling & underfloor) about 3 weeks ago & haven't had the heatpump on at all since. The house is so toasty, its great. :D

Hey, that is called SPRING :nice1

[lin]

Hey, that is called SPRING :nice1

lol, :laugh

but its not that warm, yet... :D

[NickB]

We have been doing loads of research for insulating and heating our old villa in Dunedin. Would advise anyone thinking about Airfoam to do lots of careful research of their own before going that route. Although its installed in a lot of houses here so is single glazing, does not make it any good :uhoh

The foam they use now in NZ is the same formaldehyde (!) based product that was REMOVED from many thousands of North American and Canadian homes twenty years ago when they discovered all the drawbacks.

Our house solution is not going to be cheap or easy but we reckon its worth doing the job properly; insulate heavily with batts in the roof and walls; polysteyrene insulation under the floor; thermally broken aluminum double glazing; extractors in the kitchen and bathrooms and finally good old central heating from radiators. No more heat pumps, yay!

I expect when we sell in a few years we will have to find some expat to buy it - the Kiwis will be scratching their heads over the radiators...

[benandclare]

the Kiwis will be scratching their heads over the radiators...

They generally do :D:D

[Super_BQ]

Sprayfoam is getting more and more popular in cold places like Canada. I don't think there's anything wrong with the product despite it's still based on petroleum based product. The critical reason why it should be a concern for use in NZ houses is because NZ houses don't 1) build air-tight construction & 2) no form of mechanical ventilation. The problem with petroleum based products is over time, when it breaks down, it gives of undesirable fumes that are linked to causing cancer. The standard measurement of ppm (parts per million) becomes less of an issue in a controlled environment where the case of an air tight house, the mechanical ventilation will bring toxicity fumes down to negligible levels.

Formaldehyde is still being used more commonly than you think, actually I don't think you can completely avoid it in any new home construction. It's in the MDF joinery used in kitchen cabinets. It's in the floorboards, carpets, etc. But i'm convinced in recent years, there has been sharp reduction on the use of formaldehyde in building materials to meet living conditions.


Our house solution is not going to be cheap or easy but we reckon its worth doing the job properly; insulate heavily with batts in the roof and walls; polysteyrene insulation under the floor; thermally broken aluminum double glazing; extractors in the kitchen and bathrooms and finally good old central heating from radiators. No more heat pumps, yay!

I've been down this path for almost a year. Believe me, you are taking great risk to build at a different concept. Especially in an industry where tradesmen are not required to have any formal training or certification.

I've also looked at the thermally broken aluminum window frames and they're priced out of the market. They're actually more expensive than PVCu windows which has a much greater R-value.

As for extractor fans. The concept of true HRV (heat recovery ventilators) is very rare. There are places that sell them for use in bathrooms and kitchens but I don't believe they will be effective enough under an uncontrolled living air-space.

In a 2x4 (90 x 45mm) size timber framing, the limit with fiberglass insulation is R2.8. If you want more R value, then you'll be forced to go wider timber framing. Of course this is where spray foam excels having 2 times the R value of regular fiberglass insulation. I would be more concerned on methods of draft proofing than trying to add as much insulation as possible.

[richard]

Air Foam doesn't get such a good write up here:

http://www.energywise.govt.nz/node/16670

It implies it had a lower R rating than traditional insulation and there may be moisture issues with brick cladding.

[Super_BQ]

Yes Air Foam has had lots of bad reviews but don't be too sure with what Branz testing has done. All in all, they were partly the fault for NZ's leaky house syndrome (allowing the use of a monolithic cladding system which their tests showed to be safe for NZ conditions... they were wrong). But going back to the Air Foam test, they refer to the method of drilling holes in existing homes where the foam is spray injected which naturally, will have a lower R value than a wall that has been fully fiberglass insulated (which IMO is not a fair comparison). The situation being that in a home renovation, if one had to remove the Gib board just to put insulation in the walls, there is by no doubt, that the spray foam insulation that will FULLY fill between the wall studs will provide a much higher R value than nicely fitted fiberglass insulation.

Though not fully applicable to NZ, this article sums up about the importance of insulation:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/article772246.ece


Spray foam insulation

This urethane-based insulation is sprayed into wall cavities where it expands to fill every crevice.

It's insect resistant and provides more R-value in the same space than any other insulation.

Most important, it has to be installed by licensed contractors, so you have some assurance that the work will be done properly. I love this insulation, use it all the time, and recommend it.

There are two types of spray foam: open cell and closed cell.

The closed-cell foam has a higher R-value than open cell, and doesn't require the use of a vapour barrier because it acts as an air barrier — so it's really efficient.

Sprayed foam insulation doesn't shrink, sag like batt insulation can, or settle like blown insulation.

Now I don't know what kind of spray product Air Foam is using but I do know that proper spray foam like below does not shrink.

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=QhGwC3RdX6s

[Daniel]

I would use this kind of isolation:

http://www.isover.com/Our-solutions/Insulation-materials/How-to-choose-insulation-materials

With 2 inches glass wool, you will assure an excellent thermal and acoustic insulation.